@NJCoin said:
Just 4 numbers from two totally unrelated products.
You should read the press release again, both are mentioned there. Also, all three are gold, which is king above all others. And two are gold Sacagawea coins. They are hardly "unrelated".
@NJCoin said:
Just 4 numbers from two totally unrelated products.
You should read the press release again, both are mentioned there. Also, all three are gold, which is king above all others. And two are gold Sacagawea coins. They are hardly "unrelated".
I agree with NJ. They are unrelated for the purpose you are using them. Who cares if they are all gold? That doesn't mean the price is correlated.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@mr1931S said:
Have a regular one gold plated and save a bundle.
That's harsche.
That's right. Got your copy of Harsche yet? They're getting harder and harder to find with each passing day. Don't get left out. Either the 5th or 6th edition is the one to seek out...L@@k...the cover of the 6th and last edition of Harsche shows a picture of what purports to be a real gold coin...
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
@HalfDime said:
The 2025 gold sacagawea coins sold 7491 at $2200 for a total of $16.5 million.
The 2024 Gold Flowing Hair privy did 230 at $38,800 for $8.2 million.
If we drop this to $6 million, that is $860,000 per coin.
I will be surprised if they go for any less.
Why? The value isn't derived by working back from what you think the market will collectively pay per auction, for any auction, and then just dividing that by the number of coins offered.
So the question is, where are you getting "if we drop this to $6 million" from? The answer is that it's a random number you are pulling out of the air. As is your "I will be surprised if they go for any less."
The reason they could go for less, a lot less, is that they are simply 7 out of 12 gold patterns flown into space. The market will determine what one of them is worth, and that will determine what 7 sell for at auction.
Not what 230 FH gold privies sold for, or what 7500 regular issue gold Sacs generated. Or by any number generated by applying a multiplier to one of those numbers. This has absolutely nothing to do with that.
Yours just bounce from $16.5 million to $8.2 million to $6 million. Minimum. What formula did you used to get from one number to the other? For the first two coins, all you did was take one known number and multiply or divide to get to the other.
Here you don't have either number, the per coin number or the total auction number. Just 4 numbers from two totally unrelated products. And, from that, you generate a hammer total, and a per coin "surprise" number. How do you get there?
What an interesting post....
Well, the post came out of "thin air" don't you know? Much like what the Conspiratorial US Mint does with Maximum Limits, ats, AP limits and the like - all from thin air and random - all meaningless according to the expert that we're so blessed to have in-house lol.
@HalfDime said:
The 2025 gold sacagawea coins sold 7491 at $2200 for a total of $16.5 million.
The 2024 Gold Flowing Hair privy did 230 at $38,800 for $8.2 million.
If we drop this to $6 million, that is $860,000 per coin.
I will be surprised if they go for any less.
Why? The value isn't derived by working back from what you think the market will collectively pay per auction, for any auction, and then just dividing that by the number of coins offered.
So the question is, where are you getting "if we drop this to $6 million" from? The answer is that it's a random number you are pulling out of the air. As is your "I will be surprised if they go for any less."
The reason they could go for less, a lot less, is that they are simply 7 out of 12 gold patterns flown into space. The market will determine what one of them is worth, and that will determine what 7 sell for at auction.
Not what 230 FH gold privies sold for, or what 7500 regular issue gold Sacs generated. Or by any number generated by applying a multiplier to one of those numbers. This has absolutely nothing to do with that.
Yours just bounce from $16.5 million to $8.2 million to $6 million. Minimum. What formula did you used to get from one number to the other? For the first two coins, all you did was take one known number and multiply or divide to get to the other.
Here you don't have either number, the per coin number or the total auction number. Just 4 numbers from two totally unrelated products. And, from that, you generate a hammer total, and a per coin "surprise" number. How do you get there?
What an interesting post....
Well, the post came out of "thin air" don't you know? Much like what the Conspiratorial US Mint does with Maximum Limits, ats, AP limits and the like - all from thin air and random - all meaningless according to the expert that we're so blessed to have in-house lol.
Correct.
Otherwise, it will be shocking, simply shocking if these "go for any less" than "$860,000 per coin," because there will be 7 of them, and the auction will be held on the 12th day of the 9th month of the 25th year after Y2K.
On a Friday, while pi=3.14159265359, the sun rises in the east and sets in the west, and "the 2025 gold sacagawea coins sold 7491 at $2200 for a total of $16.5 million while "the 2024 Gold Flowing Hair privy did 230 at $38,800 for $8.2 million."
@jmlanzaf said:
I agree with NJ. They are unrelated for the purpose you are using them. Who cares if they are all gold? That doesn't mean the price is correlated.
You can lead a horse to water,but you can't make it drink.
@NJCoin said:
Just 4 numbers from two totally unrelated products.
You should read the press release again, both are mentioned there. Also, all three are gold, which is king above all others. And two are gold Sacagawea coins. They are hardly "unrelated".
Yes. They are "related" to the extent, in hindsight, that the 2025 release's main purpose was to create the predicate for this sale. Including setting aside #1 to create another artificial rarity to generate some moon money.
Don't you wonder why they didn't create 25, or 250, special privies to auction? Maybe because they would have detracted from the 7 they actually want to sell.
In any event, it's unbelievable that you don't see it. Or that it needs to be explained to you.
But the fact that 7500 gold coins with a same design and a different date are "related," because they have the same design, does not in any way create a relation in value between an aggregate of 7500 offered for sale through regular channels and 7 out of 12 patterns from 25 years that were flown in space.
Your speculation and prediction was nothing more than fun with numbers. Just like mine above. Absolutely no predictive value whatsoever. NONE.
@NJCoin said:
Your speculation and prediction was nothing more than fun with numbers. Just like mine above. Absolutely no predictive value whatsoever. NONE.
I stick by my numbers and expect that to be the lowest possible price, they could go much higher. I assume you think they will be much lower.
So let's see how they end up. These are very unique coins and historical.
Anyone hoping for 200k though I think is dreaming on these.
If I were Mint director 25 of the 2025 W gold Sac's would've been enhanced tail feathers, with numbered COA's. As to what these space flown Sac's will bring, more than likely stupid moon money for sure.
@NJCoin said:
Your speculation and prediction was nothing more than fun with numbers. Just like mine above. Absolutely no predictive value whatsoever. NONE.
I stick by my numbers and expect that to be the lowest possible price, they could go much higher. I assume you think they will be much lower.
So let's see how they end up. These are very unique coins and historical.
Anyone hoping for 200k though I think is dreaming on these.
Actually, no. In all honestly I have no idea, higher or lower.
I just know that the prices won't be determined by the aggregate price paid for the 7500 made this year. Or by the aggregate price paid for 230 FH gold privies last year.
Or by the time the sun rises or sets on 9/12. Or by anything else unrelated to the demand for each of 7 out of 12 patterns flown on a space shuttle 26 years ago.
The #1 2025 is a different animal insofar as it's a totally artificial manufactured rarity. No different from any of the other 7499 minted in 2025, other than its designation as #1. Its price likely will have some relation to the #1s in the Dawn and Dusk issue from a few years ago. Which likely means around $100K.
When is the auction actually going to appear on StacksBowers? Only press releases thus far and nothing more with 10 days to go. Maybe these are still caught up in grading with our host?? 😂
I just know that the prices won't be determined by the aggregate price paid for the 7500 made this year. Or by the aggregate price paid for 230 FH gold privies last year.
Or by the time the sun rises or sets on 9/12. Or by anything else unrelated to the demand for each of 7 out of 12 patterns flown on a space shuttle 26 years ago.
Imagine if the High Relief design of the 1907 Saint had not been abandoned, and all Saints 1907-1933 were high reliefs. And imagine the total mintage for 1907 was 10,000, the actual mintage of the HR. I’m convinced that all of the lower grade HR’s now trading for 7500-10000 would be selling close to melt, because the uniqueness of the HR design would have been diminished by the gazillion later date High Reliefs. In the same way, I think the 7500 new gold sacs affect the 7 old ones. Not that I wouldn’t love to have one, of course. I’m just not as excited as I would have been if they were the only 7 gold Sacs in private hands.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Thank you.
Is there any way to download a high resolution copy of the images for posterity? I tried saving the images from one lot, but the files I got were very small.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@CaptHenway said:
Thank you.
Is there any way to download a high resolution copy of the images for posterity? I tried saving the images from one lot, but the files I got were very small.
Matt04's link (right above this post) has links to all of the TrueView images, and each has a download link
@TrickleCharge said:
Do the enhanced tail feathers only exist on these and some of the Cheerios dollars or do some of the 2025 coins have them too?
There are no reports on finding the enhanced feathers on the '25-W, but you can be sure that there's people looking for them. If there were a confirmed sighting of an enhanced tail on a '25-W -- lookout!
@CaptHenway said:
Thank you.
Is there any way to download a high resolution copy of the images for posterity? I tried saving the images from one lot, but the files I got were very small.
Matt04's link (right above this post) has links to all of the TrueView images, and each has a download link
Thank you. That worked.
Here is a blowup from the first coin.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Current prevailing scientific theory is that stable gold atoms can only be created when stars collide, implode, explode, etc.
If true, that means all gold on this planet came from outer space and has already flown in space - most likely from billions of miles away and from billions of years ago.
Save your money and tell everyone you already own space-flown gold.
@Crypto said:
over 300k each. I suspect the board is under estimating the space flown cross appeal.
Actually, while it will add a certain appeal to a space collector, in the grand scheme of things not too much. It's a government program, not something that some individual astronaut decided to bring aboard. Just as coin collectors wonder about whose hands held the coin the collector is currently holding, a space collector would pay more or less on a flown coin based on whose coin it was and how important the mission it flew on was. Also, it is shuttle related as opposed to an earlier space program like Mercury, Gemini or Apollo. Shuttle stuff has nowhere near the "sex appeal" for space collectors as the earlier programs.
IMO it will sell based on its numismatic appeal, with maybe an extra 5% for being shuttle flown.
Here's my Gemini 4 flown gold coin. One of roughly a half dozen assorted gold coins flown on that mission. On Gemini 4 the first USA spacewalk was conducted, so the coin has high space collectible value. FWIW, I know of only one other US space mission, Gemini 8, that had a gold coin carried aboard. So flown gold coins are extremely rare, but again, I don't think that will add significant value to the Sacs.
I just know that the prices won't be determined by the aggregate price paid for the 7500 made this year. Or by the aggregate price paid for 230 FH gold privies last year.
Or by the time the sun rises or sets on 9/12. Or by anything else unrelated to the demand for each of 7 out of 12 patterns flown on a space shuttle 26 years ago.
Imagine if the High Relief design of the 1907 Saint had not been abandoned, and all Saints 1907-1933 were high reliefs. And imagine the total mintage for 1907 was 10,000, the actual mintage of the HR. I’m convinced that all of the lower grade HR’s now trading for 7500-10000 would be selling close to melt, because the uniqueness of the HR design would have been diminished by the gazillion later date High Reliefs. In the same way, I think the 7500 new gold sacs affect the 7 old ones. Not that I wouldn’t love to have one, of course. I’m just not as excited as I would have been if they were the only 7 gold Sacs in private hands.
I don't know if I fully agree with all due resects given. There are a lot of nearly identical 1894 dimes but yet the 1894s brings a small premium. I concede multiple degrees of interesting/uniqueness add to the demand part of supply and demand but these have multiple things going for them never the less. Only having a handful of Ws and a story that will only grow with time (esp if one gets spent for ice cream) is as relevant if not more so than its metal content.
I just know that the prices won't be determined by the aggregate price paid for the 7500 made this year. Or by the aggregate price paid for 230 FH gold privies last year.
Or by the time the sun rises or sets on 9/12. Or by anything else unrelated to the demand for each of 7 out of 12 patterns flown on a space shuttle 26 years ago.
Imagine if the High Relief design of the 1907 Saint had not been abandoned, and all Saints 1907-1933 were high reliefs. And imagine the total mintage for 1907 was 10,000, the actual mintage of the HR. I’m convinced that all of the lower grade HR’s now trading for 7500-10000 would be selling close to melt, because the uniqueness of the HR design would have been diminished by the gazillion later date High Reliefs. In the same way, I think the 7500 new gold sacs affect the 7 old ones. Not that I wouldn’t love to have one, of course. I’m just not as excited as I would have been if they were the only 7 gold Sacs in private hands.
I feel like this is a great time to remember that the 1933 $20 has effectively the same end state as these coins. This is the modern equivalent of the 1933.
@Baylor8670 said:
Current prevailing scientific theory is that stable gold atoms can only be created when stars collide, implode, explode, etc.
If true, that means all gold on this planet came from outer space and has already flown in space - most likely from billions of miles away and from billions of years ago.
Save your money and tell everyone you already own space-flown gold.
Lol. As did all the iron, lead etc. And if you want to go with that, all the gold on earth is currently traveling through space along with the rest of the planet.
But all the gold on earth doesn't have enhanced tail feathers...
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@TrickleCharge said:
Do the enhanced tail feathers only exist on these and some of the Cheerios dollars or do some of the 2025 coins have them too?
And how would that have happened?
One possibility is the mint still has enhanced tail feather dies that they could use to strike the new coins. It'd be pretty cool if they did a limited release of 2025 enhanced tail feather coins.
@TrickleCharge said:
Do the enhanced tail feathers only exist on these and some of the Cheerios dollars or do some of the 2025 coins have them too?
And how would that have happened?
One possibility is the mint still has enhanced tail feather dies that they could use to strike the new coins. It'd be pretty cool if they did a limited release of 2025 enhanced tail feather coins.
It would have been even cooler if they had just disbursed a handful among the 10k minted with the normal tailfeathers. If they did that, these would have sold out @ 3k a piece. I'm intrigued to see what the new mint director will bring to the table, being an actual coin guy instead of another bureaucrat.
I wonder why the first lot of the seven is currently bidding much more than the other pieces. I realize that this may change.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@CaptHenway said:
I wonder why the first lot of the seven is currently bidding much more than the other pieces. I realize that this may change.
Seems to be the status quo with these modern rarities, and that one has the first cert sequentially. Even with the FH privys, the top 10 have a tad bit more desirability as per the market. Presumably, people think that was the order they were struck, though I would guess that the one with the toning has a better chance of being first with freshly polished dies leaving contaminants on the surface, perhaps. What say you?
@CaptHenway said:
I wonder why the first lot of the seven is currently bidding much more than the other pieces. I realize that this may change.
Seems to be the status quo with these modern rarities, and that one has the first cert sequentially. Even with the FH privys, the top 10 have a tad bit more desirability as per the market. Presumably, people think that was the order they were struck, though I would guess that the one with the toning has a better chance of being first with freshly polished dies leaving contaminants on the surface, perhaps. What say you?
I went and looked at all of the True Views over and over, and I cannot hazard a guess as to which of these seven pieces of the 39 originally struck was struck first or last or wherever in between.
I did notice that all seven pieces appear to have a discoloration of some sort in the lower wing above the star above the D of DOLLAR. My best professional guess is that there was some slight contaminant on the die that left a trace of the contaminant on each coin that discolored over time. This might prove the other five pieces to be a part of the original 39 pieces should they ever come on the market.
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Still can’t understand why the first lot is bidding at such a premium.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
These modern trinkets suck all the humanity out of numismatics for me. Soulless Discs
One of my main draws to coins is to imagine where the coin has been, what it purchased, who held it dear. To have touched those who have gone before is part of the magic. The same thing that drew me to ancient coinage. I know, to each his own. Reminds me why I am a gold person and not a Bitcoin fan.
I put together a VF set of Morgans based on this, nice uncleaned, varying shades of gray, been through hundreds of hands. A BU coin has sit in a bag in some lonesome dusty corner has only a fraction of appeal to me. Call me out of touch, especially for a commercial grader. But that's
that's my bag man. J.P. Martin
50 yrs in Coins, 40 yrs Certifying/Grading, 30 consecutive years teaching ANA Summer seminar, 1998 Numismatic Ambassador award, 1998 Doctorate in Numismatics, Glenn Smedley Award, ANA Governor 200/2011, Author/ Host of ANA's best selling video's, courses on grading & counterfeit detection. Taught over 1,100 paying students, Secret service agents, San Diego to Boston, Anchorage to Miami, including 2 coin cruises. Free presentations. NLG book and video awards. ANA photographer, SEM operator, Appraiser, Contributor to Redbook, Numismatist, Coin World, Numismatic News ANA Grading Guides, 40,000 Volumes in my Library, Founder ANAAB, ICG, 1995 ANA collector services appraisal/conservation, First full service Ancient coin grading service. OD Navy 75-77, WIU 77-81, Coin dealer 1981-1984, 60 year Collector U.S./ 50 Year Ancient coins. 2011-date ANA Advisory Committee. Lifetime member ANA, ANS
Semi-retired Professional Grader(ANACS) and married, Father to 3 teenage boys in Denver area.
@KOYNGUY said:
These modern trinkets suck all the humanity out of numismatics for me. Soulless Discs
One of my main draws to coins is to imagine where the coin has been, what it purchased, who held it dear. To have touched those who have gone before is part of the magic. The same thing that drew me to ancient coinage. I know, to each his own. Reminds me why I am a gold person and not a Bitcoin fan.
I put together a VF set of Morgans based on this, nice uncleaned, varying shades of gray, been through hundreds of hands. A BU coin has sit in a bag in some lonesome dusty corner has only a fraction of appeal to me. Call me out of touch, especially for a commercial grader. But that's
that's my bag man. J.P. Martin
I hear you, man, but I’m not sure it’s fair to lump these coins in with all of the other “modern trinkets”. I mean, it’s not like you can expect coins to circulate in outer space.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
“These modern trinkets suck all the humanity out of numismatics for me. Soulless Discs
One of my main draws to coins is to imagine where the coin has been, what it purchased, who held it dear. To have touched those who have gone before is part of the magic. The same thing that drew me to ancient coinage. I know, to each his own. Reminds me why I am a gold person and not a Bitcoin fan.
I put together a VF set of Morgans based on this, nice uncleaned, varying shades of gray, been through hundreds of hands. A BU coin has sit in a bag in some lonesome dusty corner has only a fraction of appeal to me. Call me out of touch, especially for a commercial grader. But that's
that's my bag man. J.P. Martin”
You know “to each his own” (when it comes to justifying your choice of collecting), and then you criticize in the same breathe other types of collecting such as great modern coins. Not good form, especially here.
Wondercoin.
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
@wondercoin said:
“These modern trinkets suck all the humanity out of numismatics for me. Soulless Discs
One of my main draws to coins is to imagine where the coin has been, what it purchased, who held it dear. To have touched those who have gone before is part of the magic. The same thing that drew me to ancient coinage. I know, to each his own. Reminds me why I am a gold person and not a Bitcoin fan.
I put together a VF set of Morgans based on this, nice uncleaned, varying shades of gray, been through hundreds of hands. A BU coin has sit in a bag in some lonesome dusty corner has only a fraction of appeal to me. Call me out of touch, especially for a commercial grader. But that's
that's my bag man. J.P. Martin”
You know “to each his own” (when it comes to justifying your choice of collecting), and then you criticize in the same breathe other types of collecting such as great modern coins. Not good form, especially here.
Wondercoin.
I agree and it should point out the VF morgans started out as prestine moderens. That said I agree with you about the tangible connection to history but find it wise to remember history has many flavors and one style isn't better than another
@KOYNGUY said:
These modern trinkets suck all the humanity out of numismatics for me. Soulless Discs
One of my main draws to coins is to imagine where the coin has been, what it purchased, who held it dear. To have touched those who have gone before is part of the magic. The same thing that drew me to ancient coinage. I know, to each his own. Reminds me why I am a gold person and not a Bitcoin fan.
I put together a VF set of Morgans based on this, nice uncleaned, varying shades of gray, been through hundreds of hands. A BU coin has sit in a bag in some lonesome dusty corner has only a fraction of appeal to me. Call me out of touch, especially for a commercial grader. But that's
that's my bag man. J.P. Martin
That's probably what collectors said 100 years ago.
It appears these are 7 of only 12 coins (with all being these gold Sacagawea coins) ever being flown on any space shuttle mission. Since they no longer fly shuttle missions these will be the only coins ever offered that have flown on a space shuttle mission.
The coins were 22-karat gold proofs specially struck for NASA's STS-93 mission in 1999 and were taken into space mainly for commemorative purposes.
Only 12 coins made the flight, after which they were stored at Fort Knox and occasionally exhibited publicly.
The coins are historically important and not radioactive as a result of their time in space.
@HalfDime said:
It appears these are 7 of only 12 coins (with all being these gold Sacagawea coins) ever being flown on any space shuttle mission. Since they no longer fly shuttle missions these will be the only coins ever offered that have flown on a space shuttle mission.
The coins were 22-karat gold proofs specially struck for NASA's STS-93 mission in 1999 and were taken into space mainly for commemorative purposes.
Only 12 coins made the flight, after which they were stored at Fort Knox and occasionally exhibited publicly.
The coins are historically important and not radioactive as a result of their time in space.
Good and valid points, though pertaining to your las sentence, I'm not going to chance it!
Comments
You should read the press release again, both are mentioned there. Also, all three are gold, which is king above all others. And two are gold Sacagawea coins. They are hardly "unrelated".
I agree with NJ. They are unrelated for the purpose you are using them. Who cares if they are all gold? That doesn't mean the price is correlated.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
That's right. Got your copy of Harsche yet? They're getting harder and harder to find with each passing day. Don't get left out. Either the 5th or 6th edition is the one to seek out...L@@k...the cover of the 6th and last edition of Harsche shows a picture of what purports to be a real gold coin...
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
I've got some rockets left over from last 4th of July to send my gold plated Sac into space.
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
Well, the post came out of "thin air" don't you know? Much like what the Conspiratorial US Mint does with Maximum Limits, ats, AP limits and the like - all from thin air and random - all meaningless according to the expert that we're so blessed to have in-house lol.
Correct.
Otherwise, it will be shocking, simply shocking if these "go for any less" than "$860,000 per coin," because there will be 7 of them, and the auction will be held on the 12th day of the 9th month of the 25th year after Y2K.
On a Friday, while pi=3.14159265359, the sun rises in the east and sets in the west, and "the 2025 gold sacagawea coins sold 7491 at $2200 for a total of $16.5 million while "the 2024 Gold Flowing Hair privy did 230 at $38,800 for $8.2 million."
I think I got it now. Thanks!!! 🤣🤣🤣
You can lead a horse to water,but you can't make it drink.
Yes. They are "related" to the extent, in hindsight, that the 2025 release's main purpose was to create the predicate for this sale. Including setting aside #1 to create another artificial rarity to generate some moon money.
Don't you wonder why they didn't create 25, or 250, special privies to auction? Maybe because they would have detracted from the 7 they actually want to sell.
In any event, it's unbelievable that you don't see it. Or that it needs to be explained to you.
But the fact that 7500 gold coins with a same design and a different date are "related," because they have the same design, does not in any way create a relation in value between an aggregate of 7500 offered for sale through regular channels and 7 out of 12 patterns from 25 years that were flown in space.
Your speculation and prediction was nothing more than fun with numbers. Just like mine above. Absolutely no predictive value whatsoever. NONE.
I stick by my numbers and expect that to be the lowest possible price, they could go much higher. I assume you think they will be much lower.
So let's see how they end up. These are very unique coins and historical.
Anyone hoping for 200k though I think is dreaming on these.
If I were Mint director 25 of the 2025 W gold Sac's would've been enhanced tail feathers, with numbered COA's. As to what these space flown Sac's will bring, more than likely stupid moon money for sure.
Actually, no. In all honestly I have no idea, higher or lower.
I just know that the prices won't be determined by the aggregate price paid for the 7500 made this year. Or by the aggregate price paid for 230 FH gold privies last year.
Or by the time the sun rises or sets on 9/12. Or by anything else unrelated to the demand for each of 7 out of 12 patterns flown on a space shuttle 26 years ago.
The #1 2025 is a different animal insofar as it's a totally artificial manufactured rarity. No different from any of the other 7499 minted in 2025, other than its designation as #1. Its price likely will have some relation to the #1s in the Dawn and Dusk issue from a few years ago. Which likely means around $100K.
over 300k each. I suspect the board is under estimating the space flown cross appeal.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
When is the auction actually going to appear on StacksBowers? Only press releases thus far and nothing more with 10 days to go. Maybe these are still caught up in grading with our host?? 😂
Imagine if the High Relief design of the 1907 Saint had not been abandoned, and all Saints 1907-1933 were high reliefs. And imagine the total mintage for 1907 was 10,000, the actual mintage of the HR. I’m convinced that all of the lower grade HR’s now trading for 7500-10000 would be selling close to melt, because the uniqueness of the HR design would have been diminished by the gazillion later date High Reliefs. In the same way, I think the 7500 new gold sacs affect the 7 old ones. Not that I wouldn’t love to have one, of course. I’m just not as excited as I would have been if they were the only 7 gold Sacs in private hands.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Auction is up: https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/auctions/3-1LTXOX/september-2025-legendary-space-flown-2000-w-22k-gold-1-struck-2025-w-24k-gold-sacagawea-dollars-on-behalf-of-the-united-states-mint-lots-1001-1008
Incredible.
Thank you.
Is there any way to download a high resolution copy of the images for posterity? I tried saving the images from one lot, but the files I got were very small.
PCGS Just finished grading them!
https://www.pcgs.com/shared-orders/order-details/25505343
Matt04's link (right above this post) has links to all of the TrueView images, and each has a download link
Do the enhanced tail feathers only exist on these and some of the Cheerios dollars or do some of the 2025 coins have them too?
There are no reports on finding the enhanced feathers on the '25-W, but you can be sure that there's people looking for them. If there were a confirmed sighting of an enhanced tail on a '25-W -- lookout!
Thank you. That worked.
Here is a blowup from the first coin.
Current prevailing scientific theory is that stable gold atoms can only be created when stars collide, implode, explode, etc.
If true, that means all gold on this planet came from outer space and has already flown in space - most likely from billions of miles away and from billions of years ago.
Save your money and tell everyone you already own space-flown gold.
Actually, while it will add a certain appeal to a space collector, in the grand scheme of things not too much. It's a government program, not something that some individual astronaut decided to bring aboard. Just as coin collectors wonder about whose hands held the coin the collector is currently holding, a space collector would pay more or less on a flown coin based on whose coin it was and how important the mission it flew on was. Also, it is shuttle related as opposed to an earlier space program like Mercury, Gemini or Apollo. Shuttle stuff has nowhere near the "sex appeal" for space collectors as the earlier programs.
IMO it will sell based on its numismatic appeal, with maybe an extra 5% for being shuttle flown.
Here's my Gemini 4 flown gold coin. One of roughly a half dozen assorted gold coins flown on that mission. On Gemini 4 the first USA spacewalk was conducted, so the coin has high space collectible value. FWIW, I know of only one other US space mission, Gemini 8, that had a gold coin carried aboard. So flown gold coins are extremely rare, but again, I don't think that will add significant value to the Sacs.
U.S. Type Set
I don't know if I fully agree with all due resects given. There are a lot of nearly identical 1894 dimes but yet the 1894s brings a small premium. I concede multiple degrees of interesting/uniqueness add to the demand part of supply and demand but these have multiple things going for them never the less. Only having a handful of Ws and a story that will only grow with time (esp if one gets spent for ice cream) is as relevant if not more so than its metal content.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
I feel like this is a great time to remember that the 1933 $20 has effectively the same end state as these coins. This is the modern equivalent of the 1933.
Lol. As did all the iron, lead etc. And if you want to go with that, all the gold on earth is currently traveling through space along with the rest of the planet.
But all the gold on earth doesn't have enhanced tail feathers...
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
And how would that have happened?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
One possibility is the mint still has enhanced tail feather dies that they could use to strike the new coins. It'd be pretty cool if they did a limited release of 2025 enhanced tail feather coins.
1001 in the lead at 65k, im still feeling alright about the opening line.
Founder- Peak Rarities
Website
Instagram
Facebook
It would have been even cooler if they had just disbursed a handful among the 10k minted with the normal tailfeathers. If they did that, these would have sold out @ 3k a piece. I'm intrigued to see what the new mint director will bring to the table, being an actual coin guy instead of another bureaucrat.
Founder- Peak Rarities
Website
Instagram
Facebook
I wonder why the first lot of the seven is currently bidding much more than the other pieces. I realize that this may change.
I'd be amazed if the first struck ends up anywhere near the 2020s.
I don’t get the appeal - to that degree - of first struck.
There are so many other coins I'd take over that for just where it is now. Incredible.
Seems to be the status quo with these modern rarities, and that one has the first cert sequentially. Even with the FH privys, the top 10 have a tad bit more desirability as per the market. Presumably, people think that was the order they were struck, though I would guess that the one with the toning has a better chance of being first with freshly polished dies leaving contaminants on the surface, perhaps. What say you?
Founder- Peak Rarities
Website
Instagram
Facebook
I went and looked at all of the True Views over and over, and I cannot hazard a guess as to which of these seven pieces of the 39 originally struck was struck first or last or wherever in between.
I did notice that all seven pieces appear to have a discoloration of some sort in the lower wing above the star above the D of DOLLAR. My best professional guess is that there was some slight contaminant on the die that left a trace of the contaminant on each coin that discolored over time. This might prove the other five pieces to be a part of the original 39 pieces should they ever come on the market.
TD
Well I've been outbid, won't be going any higher. Looks like the lowest these will go is $100k each.
http://ProofCollection.Net
Still can’t understand why the first lot is bidding at such a premium.
100% agree.
These modern trinkets suck all the humanity out of numismatics for me. Soulless Discs
One of my main draws to coins is to imagine where the coin has been, what it purchased, who held it dear. To have touched those who have gone before is part of the magic. The same thing that drew me to ancient coinage. I know, to each his own. Reminds me why I am a gold person and not a Bitcoin fan.
I put together a VF set of Morgans based on this, nice uncleaned, varying shades of gray, been through hundreds of hands. A BU coin has sit in a bag in some lonesome dusty corner has only a fraction of appeal to me. Call me out of touch, especially for a commercial grader. But that's
that's my bag man. J.P. Martin
50 yrs in Coins, 40 yrs Certifying/Grading, 30 consecutive years teaching ANA Summer seminar, 1998 Numismatic Ambassador award, 1998 Doctorate in Numismatics, Glenn Smedley Award, ANA Governor 200/2011, Author/ Host of ANA's best selling video's, courses on grading & counterfeit detection. Taught over 1,100 paying students, Secret service agents, San Diego to Boston, Anchorage to Miami, including 2 coin cruises. Free presentations. NLG book and video awards. ANA photographer, SEM operator, Appraiser, Contributor to Redbook, Numismatist, Coin World, Numismatic News ANA Grading Guides, 40,000 Volumes in my Library, Founder ANAAB, ICG, 1995 ANA collector services appraisal/conservation, First full service Ancient coin grading service. OD Navy 75-77, WIU 77-81, Coin dealer 1981-1984, 60 year Collector U.S./ 50 Year Ancient coins. 2011-date ANA Advisory Committee. Lifetime member ANA, ANS
Semi-retired Professional Grader(ANACS) and married, Father to 3 teenage boys in Denver area.
I’m drooling over these. Time to mortgage the house I guess
I hear you, man, but I’m not sure it’s fair to lump these coins in with all of the other “modern trinkets”. I mean, it’s not like you can expect coins to circulate in outer space.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
“These modern trinkets suck all the humanity out of numismatics for me. Soulless Discs
One of my main draws to coins is to imagine where the coin has been, what it purchased, who held it dear. To have touched those who have gone before is part of the magic. The same thing that drew me to ancient coinage. I know, to each his own. Reminds me why I am a gold person and not a Bitcoin fan.
I put together a VF set of Morgans based on this, nice uncleaned, varying shades of gray, been through hundreds of hands. A BU coin has sit in a bag in some lonesome dusty corner has only a fraction of appeal to me. Call me out of touch, especially for a commercial grader. But that's
that's my bag man. J.P. Martin”
You know “to each his own” (when it comes to justifying your choice of collecting), and then you criticize in the same breathe other types of collecting such as great modern coins. Not good form, especially here.
Wondercoin.
I agree and it should point out the VF morgans started out as prestine moderens. That said I agree with you about the tangible connection to history but find it wise to remember history has many flavors and one style isn't better than another
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
That's probably what collectors said 100 years ago.
http://ProofCollection.Net
It appears these are 7 of only 12 coins (with all being these gold Sacagawea coins) ever being flown on any space shuttle mission. Since they no longer fly shuttle missions these will be the only coins ever offered that have flown on a space shuttle mission.
The coins were 22-karat gold proofs specially struck for NASA's STS-93 mission in 1999 and were taken into space mainly for commemorative purposes.
Only 12 coins made the flight, after which they were stored at Fort Knox and occasionally exhibited publicly.
The coins are historically important and not radioactive as a result of their time in space.
What a gimmick... this is the weirdest gimmicky crap I have ever seen.
Wt
I just dont understand
A fool and his/her money soon departed.
All commemorative coins are "gimmicky". All proof coins are "gimmicky". Doesn't mean people can't love and enjoy them.
1913 Liberty nickels are possibly the most gimmicky coin of all...
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I can't see 30K+ value in any of these lots-but that's just me. I haven't even dipped a toe in this goat rope.
Good and valid points, though pertaining to your las sentence, I'm not going to chance it!