Peru 1752 1/2, 1, 2 & 4 reales mintages
Early_Milled_Latin_America
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I know what Yonaka states in his book
1/2 = not mentioned the exact number (he has seen less than 10)
1 = 424 minted (he has seen less than 10)
2 reales = 208 minted (he has seen less than 10)
4 reales = 81 minted (he has never seen any but mentions maybe 1 exists)
I would like to know what you long term collectors think the mintages are in your opinion based on survival rates.
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My problem is that at least 7 1752 2 reales are known to Yonaka. How can 7 or more have survived with a mintage of 208. Maybe 2000 were minted or something like that.
Do not get me wrong they are all very rare not taking that away just feels off to me. Seems like the 1752 2 reales shows up every 5-10 years (SimonW has been collecting them for over 5 years and never saw one for sale till Sedwick's latest auction).
Latin American Collection
And the recent coin was Sedwick, not Stacks
Latin American Collection
At least 10 times the recorded mintage in Yonaka. Same for the 1R and maybe for the 1/2R.
I've never seen or heard of a 4R and Yonaka mentions one rumored out of 81 minted.
I've seen most or all of the above coins, and others too, I think. Sellshopp and Patterson catalogs include it, though I can't remember or don't know if it's a duplicate with any of the above.
Still, compare it to Liberty Seated quarters which is a much better researched and more widely collected series. It's considered one of the scarcest from US coinage but by any sensible standard, should be common or a lot more common than Peru pillars, with any exceptions or outliers almost entirely explained by the mintage difference.
I was reading through an old key date thread on the US forum yesterday and one poster (no longer active) estimates Seated quarters having survival rates of 0.2% to 2%. If that's ballpark accurate, Peru pillars should be less or a lot less, usually. Yes, I know collecting by MM was not usual and there were fewer collectors outside the NE US. Still, more or far more than the likely virtually none in mid to late 18th century Peru.
The largest unknown to me in a comparison like this is the large price difference between the two series and a second is the preference for TPG for US coinage. Most of the better Peru pillars I know aren't graded (but still known since I found it).
I use the same reasoning for other 19th century and earlier Latin America series.
My mistake.
Sedwick seems to handle more of them than say Heritage were I see none in their past auctions (maybe I am not searching correctly but see zero).
Sedwick handles more of the esoteric Latin American coins.
Latin American Collection
Are you referring to the 1752 Peru 2R specifically? Or this mint more generally?
I know Heritage has sold at least one 1752 2R. It's in their archives, from a long-ago sale.
Prior to this Sedwick sale and maybe even with it, to my recollection, Heritage has sold more Peru pillars. They haven't sold "many" outside the 8R, but "many" is relative and the quality they sold has definitely been higher.
I bought five at the June 2, 2006 pre-Long Beach sale and still have all five, and more from them than any other source, except maybe eBay, but that's apples and oranges due to what's been available there for over a decade.
I was talking about the 2 reales in this case but the topic is for all of the 1752 minus the 8 reales. How many 1752 2 reales have you seen over the years WCC and how about the other 3 denominations?
What is the rarest 1752? In what order would you place all 4 denominations? I am 100% sure the 4 reales is #1 but what about the other 3?
I like the 1752's maybe one day I will complete a date set of them minus the 4 reales obviously. I would also buy the 8 reales if I did the date set.
I haven't counted but I recall most of the above sales, plus a few more.
I've seen the 1752 1R the most, but didn't keep track of specific sales.
I've probably seen the 1/2R slightly less than the 2R but consider it about equally scarce.
So, to answer your next question. I consider the 1/2R and 2R about equally scarce and 1R most common of the three.
ANS Mantis lists two 1/2R and one 2R. None for the 1R.
I don't know if all of their pillars are catalogued. I still intend to visit to request an inspection of the collection but have not been able.
One could argue that coins in South/Central America were worked to the bone and thus survived more than expected.
Hence Carlos & Juana coinage getting El Salvador counterstamps in the early-mid 1800s......
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Years Sedwick sold a 1752 2 Reales Peru:
1996
2005
2009
2011
2014
2015
2017
2025 holed
Years between sales Sedwick:
9 years
4 years
2 years
3 years
1 year
2 years
8 years
Heritage sold one back in 2006 there does not seem to have been any since then (correct me if I am wrong).
Maybe, but that's not relevant to me or anyone trying to put together any decent quality collection given the quality you're implying which is what I see too.
Has this coinage ever been demonetized? Ponterio Associates once told me Bolivia pillars circulated into the 20th century which I infer is up to at least 1909 since that's when silver coinage was discontinued. Liberty seated never has been and the only reason I'm aware it's ever been melted in volume is due to changes in the spot price where the metal content intermittently exceeded FV. I'd expect a similar result for the pillar coinage certainly in the 20th century. Other factor would be USG removing coinage but I'm not familiar with it.
I see 18th and 19th century US coins in the lowest circulated grades (down to AG-3) which are (subjectively) much nicer than those I've seen from any Latin America colonial series with a similar level of wear, even when not damaged. These US coins aren't hardly ever difficult to buy.
Given the mintage differences from these mints vs. the lower/lowest mintage liberty seated and the price differences, I can see that some of the dates which hardly ever show up are more common than I infer. But still seldom to virtually never in mid to higher grades, except where the LS survivors are really low due to effective random events.