@messydesk said:
How many coins of all those with a specific provenance does one need to see to know that all unseen ones are high quality coins?
High quality isn’t a guarantee that someone will like/want a particular coin.
OK, same question but "coins that one would love to have in one's collection" rather than "high quality coins."
For me, the answer would be that I’d probably need to see either nearly all of the coins or a very large percentage of them, depending upon the collection. And if a particular coin was tempting me from afar, I’d do my best to make it worth the seller’s time and effort to let me view it in hand first, rather than buy it sight-unseen.
I won’t say that I’d never make an exception, but it’s difficult to say under what particular circumstances it would be.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@nencoin said:
I buy lots of coins sight-unseen. The only pedigree that I would pay a sight-unseen premium for is not on your list, which is Eliasberg.
Eliasberg was nearly all built by Clapp. His Commemoratives and Peace Dollars were not nice at all. That’s why I don’t have him on the list. Although Clapp I will add to my list.
Zeus Teng AKA (The Biggest Cat in The Commemorative Market)
My goal is to find the Monster Commems. If you have any you want to sell I’m the buyer for them.
Who remembers buying coins straight out of CoinAge or Numismatic News from dealer print ads? No photos- just a description. And, this was done for the most part without pedigrees.
Someone mentioned a couple of dealers here who have such exquisite taste in coins that their offerings could be snatched up within further inquiry other than what that seller states.
TomB is one such example. Airplanenut is another, and lets not forget PeakRarities. I know these are not "pedigrees" per se, but close enough to warrant consideration from those who above stated, "none."
@lermish said: @PeakRarities has the exact same taste in coins and a fantastic eye. I would buy any of his coins sight unseen (... assuming my credit is good enough 😅)
Aww shucks, you’re making me blush 😅.
As you mention, I think a large part of this is dependent on similarity of taste, and area of specialty. Some of the larger collections like Eliasberg, Pittman, or Virgil Brand just had SO MANY coins. I think Brand had like 350,000 coins in his collection at some point.
For me, it depends on what series I am seeking. Like someone else mentioned, I would take a proof trade dollar from Bruce’s collection sight unseen. If I wanted a proof Barber, I would accept a coin from @ElDorado sight unseen. @TomB for classic head gold or MS barber halves. @Floridafacelifter for proof Morgans. @FlyingAl for 36-42 proofs, @pursuitofliberty for bust halves, @lermish for chopmarked trades, @Inspired70 for seated dollars, so on and so forth. There’s many forum members that I wouldn’t hesitate to buy something from their core collection sight unseen. If they give their word that a coin is all there, and I’m already familiar with their tastes, I can be confident as to what I can expect when I open the box.
Now, it’s a little different when someone has upgraded a scarce variety and they want to sell a dupe that was filling a hole. If someone focuses on die marriages and varieties, they may not have had much to choose from, and the hole filler may not be what I’m looking for. That’s why I likely would want to see a coin first from Taraszka, Bass, Newman, etc.
For me my area of specialty, some larger collections I would probably buy sight unseen are Garrett, Allan, Zabriskie, Beck, Newcomer, Col Green, and Pogue tends to not disappoint.
Generally though, I’m more likely to buy sight unseen from someone from the current time that I know, and they know me . There are several dealers and some collectors that like exactly what I like, and if they said they tell me that they have something that I’m going to want, they’re going to be right. This is why I always suggest trying to make connections with the right dealers and collectors based on your tastes. As time goes on, you develop a mutual understanding of each other, and it makes doing business easier and cuts down on the number of “surprises” and that lead to returns and dissatisfaction.
I’m not sure I would buy any pedigree site unseen, but Pogue had a great eye and great coins- I’m not sure I’ve seen any coin of his I wouldn’t be happy to own!
@lermish said: @PeakRarities has the exact same taste in coins and a fantastic eye. I would buy any of his coins sight unseen (... assuming my credit is good enough 😅)
Aww shucks, you’re making me blush 😅.
As you mention, I think a large part of this is dependent on similarity of taste, and area of specialty. Some of the larger collections like Eliasberg, Pittman, or Virgil Brand just had SO MANY coins. I think Brand had like 350,000 coins in his collection at some point.
For me, it depends on what series I am seeking. Like someone else mentioned, I would take a proof trade dollar from Bruce’s collection sight unseen. If I wanted a proof Barber, I would accept a coin from @ElDorado sight unseen. @TomB for classic head gold or MS barber halves. @Floridafacelifter for proof Morgans. @FlyingAl for 36-42 proofs, @pursuitofliberty for bust halves, @lermish for chopmarked trades, @Inspired70 for seated dollars, so on and so forth. There’s many forum members that I wouldn’t hesitate to buy something from their core collection sight unseen. If they give their word that a coin is all there, and I’m already familiar with their tastes, I can be confident as to what I can expect when I open the box.
Now, it’s a little different when someone has upgraded a scarce variety and they want to sell a dupe that was filling a hole. If someone focuses on die marriages and varieties, they may not have had much to choose from, and the hole filler may not be what I’m looking for. That’s why I likely would want to see a coin first from Taraszka, Bass, Newman, etc.
For me my area of specialty, some larger collections I would probably buy sight unseen are Garrett, Allan, Zabriskie, Beck, Newcomer, Col Green, and Pogue tends to not disappoint.
Generally though, I’m more likely to buy sight unseen from someone from the current time that I know, and they know me . There are several dealers and some collectors that like exactly what I like, and if they said they tell me that they have something that I’m going to want, they’re going to be right. This is why I always suggest trying to make connections with the right dealers and collectors based on your tastes. As time goes on, you develop a mutual understanding of each other, and it makes doing business easier and cuts down on the number of “surprises” and that lead to returns and dissatisfaction.
Pittman had many cheap, common, butt ugly coins. But they would have qualified for the pedigree.
I stay at none. And anyone who says anything other than "none" is also assuming the price is reasonable. The OP said "buy". I would buy Walmart parking lot coins, sight unseen, at the right price. But that doesn't mean I will buy even a beautiful pedigree coin at any price or even a premium price.
You have some really great coins. That doesn't mean I would buy all of them, or possibly any of them, at your ask price even SEEN much less unseen. Now, i would trust your grading and verbal description as I would for many trusted dealers. But I stop far short of an automatic "buy".
@lermish said: @PeakRarities has the exact same taste in coins and a fantastic eye. I would buy any of his coins sight unseen (... assuming my credit is good enough 😅)
Aww shucks, you’re making me blush 😅.
As you mention, I think a large part of this is dependent on similarity of taste, and area of specialty. Some of the larger collections like Eliasberg, Pittman, or Virgil Brand just had SO MANY coins. I think Brand had like 350,000 coins in his collection at some point.
For me, it depends on what series I am seeking. Like someone else mentioned, I would take a proof trade dollar from Bruce’s collection sight unseen. If I wanted a proof Barber, I would accept a coin from @ElDorado sight unseen. @TomB for classic head gold or MS barber halves. @Floridafacelifter for proof Morgans. @FlyingAl for 36-42 proofs, @pursuitofliberty for bust halves, @lermish for chopmarked trades, @Inspired70 for seated dollars, so on and so forth. There’s many forum members that I wouldn’t hesitate to buy something from their core collection sight unseen. If they give their word that a coin is all there, and I’m already familiar with their tastes, I can be confident as to what I can expect when I open the box.
Now, it’s a little different when someone has upgraded a scarce variety and they want to sell a dupe that was filling a hole. If someone focuses on die marriages and varieties, they may not have had much to choose from, and the hole filler may not be what I’m looking for. That’s why I likely would want to see a coin first from Taraszka, Bass, Newman, etc.
For me my area of specialty, some larger collections I would probably buy sight unseen are Garrett, Allan, Zabriskie, Beck, Newcomer, Col Green, and Pogue tends to not disappoint.
Generally though, I’m more likely to buy sight unseen from someone from the current time that I know, and they know me . There are several dealers and some collectors that like exactly what I like, and if they said they tell me that they have something that I’m going to want, they’re going to be right. This is why I always suggest trying to make connections with the right dealers and collectors based on your tastes. As time goes on, you develop a mutual understanding of each other, and it makes doing business easier and cuts down on the number of “surprises” and that lead to returns and dissatisfaction.
Pittman had many cheap, common, butt ugly coins. But they would have qualified for the pedigree.
I stay at none. And anyone who says anything other than "none" is also assuming the price is reasonable. The OP said "buy". I would buy Walmart parking lot coins, sight unseen, at the right price. But that doesn't mean I will buy even a beautiful pedigree coin at any price or even a premium price.
You have some really great coins. That doesn't mean I would buy all of them, or possibly any of them, at your ask price even SEEN much less unseen. Now, i would trust your grading and verbal description as I would for many trusted dealers. But I stop far short of an automatic "buy".
Completely understandable, I think more specific context might provide some clarity to this situation.
Let's say that I've been looking for an 1850 Mormon $5 for several years to no avail. I get a call from one of the younger YNs at a local show and they stumbled across one with an old holder with Allan provenance. The price is right, from what they describe the coin sounds like what I'm looking for, but they dont have the expertise where I can depend on their judgement. The problem is that there's no cell service there so I cant get a picture sent, and there's another collector nearby who's also contemplating buying the coin, but he's still hemming and hauling. In this "chit or get off the pot" situation, Id likely tell him to make the deal and lock the coin up for me.
There's not many circumstances I can think of where one would be in a situation where their options are either sight unseen, or nothing. In this case, the Allan pedigree would be enough comfort for me to take the risk, and like I said this is assuming the price is where I want it to be and I HAD to make a decision quickly.
Agree about Pittman, that's the point I was making is that they had SO MANY coins that it's not possible for them all to be nice. I've had ugly Pittman and Bass coins, lackluster Newman coins, and even some Eliasberg examples that were very "meh".
And with what I'm collecting, these can be extremely scarce issues that are R6 or even R7. It's difficult to find an example at all, let alone one that meets all my criteria. IMO that's a bit different than someone who collects a series that's not may not be that scarce overall, but they seek the finest, most eye appealing examples in existence.
@lermish said: @PeakRarities has the exact same taste in coins and a fantastic eye. I would buy any of his coins sight unseen (... assuming my credit is good enough 😅)
Aww shucks, you’re making me blush 😅.
As you mention, I think a large part of this is dependent on similarity of taste, and area of specialty. Some of the larger collections like Eliasberg, Pittman, or Virgil Brand just had SO MANY coins. I think Brand had like 350,000 coins in his collection at some point.
For me, it depends on what series I am seeking. Like someone else mentioned, I would take a proof trade dollar from Bruce’s collection sight unseen. If I wanted a proof Barber, I would accept a coin from @ElDorado sight unseen. @TomB for classic head gold or MS barber halves. @Floridafacelifter for proof Morgans. @FlyingAl for 36-42 proofs, @pursuitofliberty for bust halves, @lermish for chopmarked trades, @Inspired70 for seated dollars, so on and so forth. There’s many forum members that I wouldn’t hesitate to buy something from their core collection sight unseen. If they give their word that a coin is all there, and I’m already familiar with their tastes, I can be confident as to what I can expect when I open the box.
Now, it’s a little different when someone has upgraded a scarce variety and they want to sell a dupe that was filling a hole. If someone focuses on die marriages and varieties, they may not have had much to choose from, and the hole filler may not be what I’m looking for. That’s why I likely would want to see a coin first from Taraszka, Bass, Newman, etc.
For me my area of specialty, some larger collections I would probably buy sight unseen are Garrett, Allan, Zabriskie, Beck, Newcomer, Col Green, and Pogue tends to not disappoint.
Generally though, I’m more likely to buy sight unseen from someone from the current time that I know, and they know me . There are several dealers and some collectors that like exactly what I like, and if they said they tell me that they have something that I’m going to want, they’re going to be right. This is why I always suggest trying to make connections with the right dealers and collectors based on your tastes. As time goes on, you develop a mutual understanding of each other, and it makes doing business easier and cuts down on the number of “surprises” and that lead to returns and dissatisfaction.
Pittman had many cheap, common, butt ugly coins. But they would have qualified for the pedigree.
I stay at none. And anyone who says anything other than "none" is also assuming the price is reasonable. The OP said "buy". I would buy Walmart parking lot coins, sight unseen, at the right price. But that doesn't mean I will buy even a beautiful pedigree coin at any price or even a premium price.
You have some really great coins. That doesn't mean I would buy all of them, or possibly any of them, at your ask price even SEEN much less unseen. Now, i would trust your grading and verbal description as I would for many trusted dealers. But I stop far short of an automatic "buy".
Completely understandable, I think more specific context might provide some clarity to this situation.
Let's say that I've been looking for an 1850 Mormon $5 for several years to no avail. I get a call from one of the younger YNs at a local show and they stumbled across one with an old holder with Allan provenance. The price is right, from what they describe the coin sounds like what I'm looking for, but they dont have the expertise where I can depend on their judgement. The problem is that there's no cell service there so I cant get a picture sent, and there's another collector nearby who's also contemplating buying the coin, but he's still hemming and hauling. In this "chit or get off the pot" situation, Id likely tell him to make the deal and lock the coin up for me.
There's not many circumstances I can think of where one would be in a situation where their options are either sight unseen, or nothing. In this case, the Allan pedigree would be enough comfort for me to take the risk, and like I said this is assuming the price is where I want it to be and I HAD to make a decision quickly.
Agree about Pittman, that's the point I was making is that they had SO MANY coins that it's not possible for them all to be nice. I've had ugly Pittman and Bass coins, lackluster Newman coins, and even some Eliasberg examples that were very "meh".
Totally agree.
Being in Rochester, I've seen hundreds of Pittman coins that were not in the auctions and are not pedigreed. They look like the average box lot estate of an amateur. He loved coins and bought everything.
By the way, another fun fact about Pittman is that at one point he was shellacking proofs.
I bought the Pittman example of the Tibet 20 Srang gold in his world sale because Tibet is kind of my thing. If is a nice original coin but arguably the lowest grade example of this type that I can recall seeing. I love it for a lot of reasons but if you wanted one, you could find much better examples of the type.
I’m not sure I would buy any pedigree site unseen, but Pogue had a great eye and great coins- I’m not sure I’ve seen any coin of his I wouldn’t be happy to own!
I’m not sure I would buy any pedigree site unseen, but Pogue had a great eye and great coins- I’m not sure I’ve seen any coin of his I wouldn’t be happy to own!
Koessl?
He had some spectacular gold- and he was picky- so yes that’s another small collector with good taste. (Small as in number of coins like Pogue- not 350,000 like my favorite collector Brand)
I’m not sure I would buy any pedigree site unseen, but Pogue had a great eye and great coins- I’m not sure I’ve seen any coin of his I wouldn’t be happy to own!
Koessl?
I forgot about that one. That pedigree is probably one I’d buy sight unseen.
I’m not sure I would buy any pedigree site unseen, but Pogue had a great eye and great coins- I’m not sure I’ve seen any coin of his I wouldn’t be happy to own!
Koessl?
I forgot about that one. That pedigree is probably one I’d buy sight unseen.
I’m not sure I would buy any pedigree site unseen, but Pogue had a great eye and great coins- I’m not sure I’ve seen any coin of his I wouldn’t be happy to own!
Koessl?
He had some spectacular gold- and he was picky- so yes that’s another small collector with good taste. (Small as in number of coins like Pogue- not 350,000 like my favorite collector Brand)
Yea, Trompeter was the first to come to mind but he had an extensive collection with all dates so some are bound to be meh.
I believe Koessl just had a proof type set of <30 coins, which is the type of collection you’d want if you had to make a sight unseen purchase.
Jack Lee
James Bennett Pryor
Richmond collection
Highland collection
Newman/Green
Helen Gates Kirk
Ozark collection
Calvin collection
Duckor
Ally
I saw the MS 65 1919 S Walker from the Eliasberg collection and I wasn’t impressed. But that doesn’t mean I don’t like all of his coins. That just means that you have to see the coin individually to be really sure. So, for this reason, @PTVETTER makes a good point.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
In what universe is it ever necessary to buy a coin sight unseen? Is buying a coin from a respected dealer showing quality high resolution pics in his listing and having a return privilege really considered to be buying sight unseen?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@PerryHall said:
In what universe is it ever necessary to buy a coin sight unseen? Is buying a coin from a respected dealer showing quality high resolution pics in his listing and having a return privilege really considered to be buying sight unseen?
It's not necessary, but it's possible. People do it all the time with things like bullion or sealed mint boxes or coin rolls. I could list a collector coin without an image. But people almost always show an image because they know that affects the price. And i still say people are ignoring price when they say they would buy a pedigree coin sight unseen. Pogue had pretty much universally nice coins, but they didn't all sell for the same price.
I’m not sure I would buy any pedigree site unseen, but Pogue had a great eye and great coins- I’m not sure I’ve seen any coin of his I wouldn’t be happy to own!
Koessl?
I forgot about that one. That pedigree is probably one I’d buy sight unseen.
I’m not sure I would buy any pedigree site unseen, but Pogue had a great eye and great coins- I’m not sure I’ve seen any coin of his I wouldn’t be happy to own!
Koessl?
He had some spectacular gold- and he was picky- so yes that’s another small collector with good taste. (Small as in number of coins like Pogue- not 350,000 like my favorite collector Brand)
Yea, Trompeter was the first to come to mind but he had an extensive collection with all dates so some are bound to be meh.
I believe Koessl just had a proof type set of <30 coins, which is the type of collection you’d want if you had to make a sight unseen purchase.
The Koessl set was comprised of Proof gold coins of each denomination and year from 1908-1915. Based on having seen some of them and spoken to him on occasion over a period of nearly forty years, I’m confident that for the assigned grades, on a coin-for-coin basis, the set’s as fine as, if not better than any other. In addition to that, Mr. Koessl is one of the most polite gentleman I’ve ever met.
Thanks for the reminder of a very rare exception I’d make - I would gladly buy any of his coins sight-unseen.
I’m not sure I would buy any pedigree site unseen, but Pogue had a great eye and great coins- I’m not sure I’ve seen any coin of his I wouldn’t be happy to own!
Koessl?
I forgot about that one. That pedigree is probably one I’d buy sight unseen.
I’m not sure I would buy any pedigree site unseen, but Pogue had a great eye and great coins- I’m not sure I’ve seen any coin of his I wouldn’t be happy to own!
Koessl?
He had some spectacular gold- and he was picky- so yes that’s another small collector with good taste. (Small as in number of coins like Pogue- not 350,000 like my favorite collector Brand)
Yea, Trompeter was the first to come to mind but he had an extensive collection with all dates so some are bound to be meh.
I believe Koessl just had a proof type set of <30 coins, which is the type of collection you’d want if you had to make a sight unseen purchase.
The Koessl set was comprised of Proof gold coins of each denomination and year from 1908-1915. Based on having seen some of them and spoken to him on occasion over a period of nearly forty years, I’m confident that for the assigned grades, on a coin-for-coin basis, the set’s as fine as, if not better than any other. In addition to that, Mr. Koessl is one of the most polite gentleman I’ve ever met.
Thanks for the reminder of a very rare exception I’d make - I would gladly buy any of his coins sight-unseen.
Fun fact, ultimately the set was handled by JA upon liquidation. Prior to that, JA had offered Mr Koessl numerous high quality stickered proof coins for his collection, all of which he declined...his reason being that his current example was superior.
JA had questioned if he was a tire kicker, and stated in an interview something to the effect of "I started to wonder if the guy was serious, or if he intended to buy any coins at all."
When JA had the entire collection in front of him to evaluate, his response was - (and this is me paraphrasing)..."Sweet baby Jesus, he was right all along!"
I’m not sure I would buy any pedigree site unseen, but Pogue had a great eye and great coins- I’m not sure I’ve seen any coin of his I wouldn’t be happy to own!
Koessl?
I forgot about that one. That pedigree is probably one I’d buy sight unseen.
I’m not sure I would buy any pedigree site unseen, but Pogue had a great eye and great coins- I’m not sure I’ve seen any coin of his I wouldn’t be happy to own!
Koessl?
He had some spectacular gold- and he was picky- so yes that’s another small collector with good taste. (Small as in number of coins like Pogue- not 350,000 like my favorite collector Brand)
Yea, Trompeter was the first to come to mind but he had an extensive collection with all dates so some are bound to be meh.
I believe Koessl just had a proof type set of <30 coins, which is the type of collection you’d want if you had to make a sight unseen purchase.
The Koessl set was comprised of Proof gold coins of each denomination and year from 1908-1915. Based on having seen some of them and spoken to him on occasion over a period of nearly forty years, I’m confident that for the assigned grades, on a coin-for-coin basis, the set’s as fine as, if not better than any other. In addition to that, Mr. Koessl is one of the most polite gentleman I’ve ever met.
Thanks for the reminder of a very rare exception I’d make - I would gladly buy any of his coins sight-unseen.
Fun fact, ultimately the set was handled by JA upon liquidation. Prior to that, JA had offered Mr Koessl numerous high quality stickered proof coins for his collection, all of which he declined...his reason being that his current example was superior.
JA had questioned if he was a tire kicker, and stated in an interview something to the effect of "I started to wonder if the guy was serious, or if he intended to buy any coins at all."
When JA had the entire collection in front of him to evaluate, his response was - (and this is me paraphrasing)..."Sweet baby Jesus, he was right all along!"
Dan, that and additional information/fun facts are included in the link I provided.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I’m not sure I would buy any pedigree site unseen, but Pogue had a great eye and great coins- I’m not sure I’ve seen any coin of his I wouldn’t be happy to own!
Koessl?
I forgot about that one. That pedigree is probably one I’d buy sight unseen.
I’m not sure I would buy any pedigree site unseen, but Pogue had a great eye and great coins- I’m not sure I’ve seen any coin of his I wouldn’t be happy to own!
Koessl?
He had some spectacular gold- and he was picky- so yes that’s another small collector with good taste. (Small as in number of coins like Pogue- not 350,000 like my favorite collector Brand)
Yea, Trompeter was the first to come to mind but he had an extensive collection with all dates so some are bound to be meh.
I believe Koessl just had a proof type set of <30 coins, which is the type of collection you’d want if you had to make a sight unseen purchase.
The Koessl set was comprised of Proof gold coins of each denomination and year from 1908-1915. Based on having seen some of them and spoken to him on occasion over a period of nearly forty years, I’m confident that for the assigned grades, on a coin-for-coin basis, the set’s as fine as, if not better than any other. In addition to that, Mr. Koessl is one of the most polite gentleman I’ve ever met.
Thanks for the reminder of a very rare exception I’d make - I would gladly buy any of his coins sight-unseen.
Fun fact, ultimately the set was handled by JA upon liquidation. Prior to that, JA had offered Mr Koessl numerous high quality stickered proof coins for his collection, all of which he declined...his reason being that his current example was superior.
JA had questioned if he was a tire kicker, and stated in an interview something to the effect of "I started to wonder if the guy was serious, or if he intended to buy any coins at all."
When JA had the entire collection in front of him to evaluate, his response was - (and this is me paraphrasing)..."Sweet baby Jesus, he was right all along!"
Dan, that and additional information/fun facts are included in the link I provided.
Oopsie, sorry Mark I hadn't even checked on the link before I commented! Shame on me, I probably just remembered that part from reading that article at some point in the past...which speaks to the significance of a statement like that from JA, because I usually have the memory of a goldfish 😅.
I’m not sure I would buy any pedigree site unseen, but Pogue had a great eye and great coins- I’m not sure I’ve seen any coin of his I wouldn’t be happy to own!
Koessl?
I forgot about that one. That pedigree is probably one I’d buy sight unseen.
I’m not sure I would buy any pedigree site unseen, but Pogue had a great eye and great coins- I’m not sure I’ve seen any coin of his I wouldn’t be happy to own!
Koessl?
He had some spectacular gold- and he was picky- so yes that’s another small collector with good taste. (Small as in number of coins like Pogue- not 350,000 like my favorite collector Brand)
Yea, Trompeter was the first to come to mind but he had an extensive collection with all dates so some are bound to be meh.
I believe Koessl just had a proof type set of <30 coins, which is the type of collection you’d want if you had to make a sight unseen purchase.
The Koessl set was comprised of Proof gold coins of each denomination and year from 1908-1915. Based on having seen some of them and spoken to him on occasion over a period of nearly forty years, I’m confident that for the assigned grades, on a coin-for-coin basis, the set’s as fine as, if not better than any other. In addition to that, Mr. Koessl is one of the most polite gentleman I’ve ever met.
Thanks for the reminder of a very rare exception I’d make - I would gladly buy any of his coins sight-unseen.
I’m not sure I would buy any pedigree site unseen, but Pogue had a great eye and great coins- I’m not sure I’ve seen any coin of his I wouldn’t be happy to own!
Koessl?
I forgot about that one. That pedigree is probably one I’d buy sight unseen.
I’m not sure I would buy any pedigree site unseen, but Pogue had a great eye and great coins- I’m not sure I’ve seen any coin of his I wouldn’t be happy to own!
Koessl?
He had some spectacular gold- and he was picky- so yes that’s another small collector with good taste. (Small as in number of coins like Pogue- not 350,000 like my favorite collector Brand)
Yea, Trompeter was the first to come to mind but he had an extensive collection with all dates so some are bound to be meh.
I believe Koessl just had a proof type set of <30 coins, which is the type of collection you’d want if you had to make a sight unseen purchase.
The Koessl set was comprised of Proof gold coins of each denomination and year from 1908-1915. Based on having seen some of them and spoken to him on occasion over a period of nearly forty years, I’m confident that for the assigned grades, on a coin-for-coin basis, the set’s as fine as, if not better than any other. In addition to that, Mr. Koessl is one of the most polite gentleman I’ve ever met.
Thanks for the reminder of a very rare exception I’d make - I would gladly buy any of his coins sight-unseen.
Isn't it a bit of a cheat on the original question? You aren't really buying them sight unseen if you've already seen them...
I don’t think it’s a bit of a cheat. I don’t know how many of the coins I’ve seen or which ones. And as far as I know, it’s been more than 10 years since I’ve seen any of them. Still, if you’d like to call me a cheater, have at it.🫢
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I’m not sure I would buy any pedigree site unseen, but Pogue had a great eye and great coins- I’m not sure I’ve seen any coin of his I wouldn’t be happy to own!
Koessl?
I forgot about that one. That pedigree is probably one I’d buy sight unseen.
I’m not sure I would buy any pedigree site unseen, but Pogue had a great eye and great coins- I’m not sure I’ve seen any coin of his I wouldn’t be happy to own!
Koessl?
He had some spectacular gold- and he was picky- so yes that’s another small collector with good taste. (Small as in number of coins like Pogue- not 350,000 like my favorite collector Brand)
Yea, Trompeter was the first to come to mind but he had an extensive collection with all dates so some are bound to be meh.
I believe Koessl just had a proof type set of <30 coins, which is the type of collection you’d want if you had to make a sight unseen purchase.
The Koessl set was comprised of Proof gold coins of each denomination and year from 1908-1915. Based on having seen some of them and spoken to him on occasion over a period of nearly forty years, I’m confident that for the assigned grades, on a coin-for-coin basis, the set’s as fine as, if not better than any other. In addition to that, Mr. Koessl is one of the most polite gentleman I’ve ever met.
Thanks for the reminder of a very rare exception I’d make - I would gladly buy any of his coins sight-unseen.
Isn't it a bit of a cheat on the original question? You aren't really buying them sight unseen if you've already seen them...
I don’t think it’s a bit of a cheat. I don’t know how many of the coins I’ve seen or which ones. And as far as I know, it’s been more than 10 years since I’ve seen any of them. Still, if you’d like to call me a cheater, have at it.
I didn't call you a "cheater".
But even for a collection like Koessel, how do you know what to pay if you haven't seen it? There is a sight unseen price for every coin, pedigreed or not. But for a premium coin, it's nearly impossible to know what to pay if you haven't seen it.
I’m not sure I would buy any pedigree site unseen, but Pogue had a great eye and great coins- I’m not sure I’ve seen any coin of his I wouldn’t be happy to own!
Koessl?
I forgot about that one. That pedigree is probably one I’d buy sight unseen.
I’m not sure I would buy any pedigree site unseen, but Pogue had a great eye and great coins- I’m not sure I’ve seen any coin of his I wouldn’t be happy to own!
Koessl?
He had some spectacular gold- and he was picky- so yes that’s another small collector with good taste. (Small as in number of coins like Pogue- not 350,000 like my favorite collector Brand)
Yea, Trompeter was the first to come to mind but he had an extensive collection with all dates so some are bound to be meh.
I believe Koessl just had a proof type set of <30 coins, which is the type of collection you’d want if you had to make a sight unseen purchase.
The Koessl set was comprised of Proof gold coins of each denomination and year from 1908-1915. Based on having seen some of them and spoken to him on occasion over a period of nearly forty years, I’m confident that for the assigned grades, on a coin-for-coin basis, the set’s as fine as, if not better than any other. In addition to that, Mr. Koessl is one of the most polite gentleman I’ve ever met.
Thanks for the reminder of a very rare exception I’d make - I would gladly buy any of his coins sight-unseen.
Isn't it a bit of a cheat on the original question? You aren't really buying them sight unseen if you've already seen them...
I don’t think it’s a bit of a cheat. I don’t know how many of the coins I’ve seen or which ones. And as far as I know, it’s been more than 10 years since I’ve seen any of them. Still, if you’d like to call me a cheater, have at it.
I didn't call you a "cheater".
But even for a collection like Koessel, how do you know what to pay if you haven't seen it? There is a sight unseen price for every coin, pedigreed or not. But for a premium coin, it's nearly impossible to know what to pay if you haven't seen it.
If you want a coin out of a collection like that, you pay a very strong sight-seen piece even if you haven’t seen it. In order to help accomplish that, close your eyes and imagine the likely finest, wholly original example possible for the assigned grade, and pay accordingly.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
None. I did. Once.
Hated the coin.
Pedigrees are too much about ego. Sure, money can buy nice coins, but not every coin pedigreed is necessarily as nice as all the rest.
I’m not sure I would buy any pedigree site unseen, but Pogue had a great eye and great coins- I’m not sure I’ve seen any coin of his I wouldn’t be happy to own!
FYI Pogue didn't have the eye imo, it was Richard Burdick's eyes
I'm cheating actually
The only saint I could possibly afford that was in his collection is the 1923 in MS65 and I've seen it.
(never for sale but I've seen it)
While I understand the persistent answer of "None" to the question of whose pedigree would you buy sight unseen, I have found that in my little niche of the market anything from the collection of the late Steve Tanenbaum will do. That guy found everything.
Price it and send.
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
There are a few dealers and coin friends (they will remain nameless) who if they told me to buy a coin I would sight unseen. I bought an 18th century half eagle on a gondola while on a ski trip with a poor cell signal sight unseen around 10 years ago. I loved the coin and wasn’t disappointed. I did have the option of returning the coin if I was unhappy which made the decision much easier.
It's great to see that you're consistent, having posted essentially the same answer last week:
"None / if it does not meet my standards or needs for client inventory it’s a no go"
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
To be honest I could not come up with an answer to this at first. Then I remembered the Eugene H. Gardner collection. Don't think there was a dog in the lot.
Sight unseen would also make sense. I would be moving pretty fast having robbed a couple of banks to afford one of his coins. James
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OK, same question but "coins that one would love to have in one's collection" rather than "high quality coins."
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
For me, the answer would be that I’d probably need to see either nearly all of the coins or a very large percentage of them, depending upon the collection. And if a particular coin was tempting me from afar, I’d do my best to make it worth the seller’s time and effort to let me view it in hand first, rather than buy it sight-unseen.
I won’t say that I’d never make an exception, but it’s difficult to say under what particular circumstances it would be.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I buy lots of coins sight-unseen. The only pedigree that I would pay a sight-unseen premium for is not on your list, which is Eliasberg.
Eliasberg was nearly all built by Clapp. His Commemoratives and Peace Dollars were not nice at all. That’s why I don’t have him on the list. Although Clapp I will add to my list.
Zeus Teng AKA (The Biggest Cat in The Commemorative Market)
My goal is to find the Monster Commems. If you have any you want to sell I’m the buyer for them.
None
Who remembers buying coins straight out of CoinAge or Numismatic News from dealer print ads? No photos- just a description. And, this was done for the most part without pedigrees.
Someone mentioned a couple of dealers here who have such exquisite taste in coins that their offerings could be snatched up within further inquiry other than what that seller states.
TomB is one such example. Airplanenut is another, and lets not forget PeakRarities. I know these are not "pedigrees" per se, but close enough to warrant consideration from those who above stated, "none."
peacockcoins
Aww shucks, you’re making me blush 😅.
As you mention, I think a large part of this is dependent on similarity of taste, and area of specialty. Some of the larger collections like Eliasberg, Pittman, or Virgil Brand just had SO MANY coins. I think Brand had like 350,000 coins in his collection at some point.
For me, it depends on what series I am seeking. Like someone else mentioned, I would take a proof trade dollar from Bruce’s collection sight unseen. If I wanted a proof Barber, I would accept a coin from @ElDorado sight unseen. @TomB for classic head gold or MS barber halves. @Floridafacelifter for proof Morgans. @FlyingAl for 36-42 proofs, @pursuitofliberty for bust halves, @lermish for chopmarked trades, @Inspired70 for seated dollars, so on and so forth. There’s many forum members that I wouldn’t hesitate to buy something from their core collection sight unseen. If they give their word that a coin is all there, and I’m already familiar with their tastes, I can be confident as to what I can expect when I open the box.
Now, it’s a little different when someone has upgraded a scarce variety and they want to sell a dupe that was filling a hole. If someone focuses on die marriages and varieties, they may not have had much to choose from, and the hole filler may not be what I’m looking for. That’s why I likely would want to see a coin first from Taraszka, Bass, Newman, etc.
For me my area of specialty, some larger collections I would probably buy sight unseen are Garrett, Allan, Zabriskie, Beck, Newcomer, Col Green, and Pogue tends to not disappoint.
Generally though, I’m more likely to buy sight unseen from someone from the current time that I know, and they know me . There are several dealers and some collectors that like exactly what I like, and if they said they tell me that they have something that I’m going to want, they’re going to be right. This is why I always suggest trying to make connections with the right dealers and collectors based on your tastes. As time goes on, you develop a mutual understanding of each other, and it makes doing business easier and cuts down on the number of “surprises” and that lead to returns and dissatisfaction.
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Thank you @PeakRarities
I’m not sure I would buy any pedigree site unseen, but Pogue had a great eye and great coins- I’m not sure I’ve seen any coin of his I wouldn’t be happy to own!
Pittman had many cheap, common, butt ugly coins. But they would have qualified for the pedigree.
I stay at none. And anyone who says anything other than "none" is also assuming the price is reasonable. The OP said "buy". I would buy Walmart parking lot coins, sight unseen, at the right price. But that doesn't mean I will buy even a beautiful pedigree coin at any price or even a premium price.
You have some really great coins. That doesn't mean I would buy all of them, or possibly any of them, at your ask price even SEEN much less unseen. Now, i would trust your grading and verbal description as I would for many trusted dealers. But I stop far short of an automatic "buy".
Completely understandable, I think more specific context might provide some clarity to this situation.
Let's say that I've been looking for an 1850 Mormon $5 for several years to no avail. I get a call from one of the younger YNs at a local show and they stumbled across one with an old holder with Allan provenance. The price is right, from what they describe the coin sounds like what I'm looking for, but they dont have the expertise where I can depend on their judgement. The problem is that there's no cell service there so I cant get a picture sent, and there's another collector nearby who's also contemplating buying the coin, but he's still hemming and hauling. In this "chit or get off the pot" situation, Id likely tell him to make the deal and lock the coin up for me.
There's not many circumstances I can think of where one would be in a situation where their options are either sight unseen, or nothing. In this case, the Allan pedigree would be enough comfort for me to take the risk, and like I said this is assuming the price is where I want it to be and I HAD to make a decision quickly.
Agree about Pittman, that's the point I was making is that they had SO MANY coins that it's not possible for them all to be nice. I've had ugly Pittman and Bass coins, lackluster Newman coins, and even some Eliasberg examples that were very "meh".
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And with what I'm collecting, these can be extremely scarce issues that are R6 or even R7. It's difficult to find an example at all, let alone one that meets all my criteria. IMO that's a bit different than someone who collects a series that's not may not be that scarce overall, but they seek the finest, most eye appealing examples in existence.
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Totally agree.
Being in Rochester, I've seen hundreds of Pittman coins that were not in the auctions and are not pedigreed. They look like the average box lot estate of an amateur. He loved coins and bought everything.
By the way, another fun fact about Pittman is that at one point he was shellacking proofs.
I bought the Pittman example of the Tibet 20 Srang gold in his world sale because Tibet is kind of my thing. If is a nice original coin but arguably the lowest grade example of this type that I can recall seeing. I love it for a lot of reasons but if you wanted one, you could find much better examples of the type.
LOL.
Koessl?
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He had some spectacular gold- and he was picky- so yes that’s another small collector with good taste. (Small as in number of coins like Pogue- not 350,000 like my favorite collector Brand)
I forgot about that one. That pedigree is probably one I’d buy sight unseen.
Coin Photographer.
****> @Floridafacelifter said:
Yea, Trompeter was the first to come to mind but he had an extensive collection with all dates so some are bound to be meh.
I believe Koessl just had a proof type set of <30 coins, which is the type of collection you’d want if you had to make a sight unseen purchase.
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Jack Lee
James Bennett Pryor
Richmond collection
Highland collection
Newman/Green
Helen Gates Kirk
Ozark collection
Calvin collection
Duckor
Ally
I saw the MS 65 1919 S Walker from the Eliasberg collection and I wasn’t impressed. But that doesn’t mean I don’t like all of his coins. That just means that you have to see the coin individually to be really sure. So, for this reason, @PTVETTER makes a good point.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
In what universe is it ever necessary to buy a coin sight unseen? Is buying a coin from a respected dealer showing quality high resolution pics in his listing and having a return privilege really considered to be buying sight unseen?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
It's not necessary, but it's possible. People do it all the time with things like bullion or sealed mint boxes or coin rolls. I could list a collector coin without an image. But people almost always show an image because they know that affects the price. And i still say people are ignoring price when they say they would buy a pedigree coin sight unseen. Pogue had pretty much universally nice coins, but they didn't all sell for the same price.
The Koessl set was comprised of Proof gold coins of each denomination and year from 1908-1915. Based on having seen some of them and spoken to him on occasion over a period of nearly forty years, I’m confident that for the assigned grades, on a coin-for-coin basis, the set’s as fine as, if not better than any other. In addition to that, Mr. Koessl is one of the most polite gentleman I’ve ever met.
Thanks for the reminder of a very rare exception I’d make - I would gladly buy any of his coins sight-unseen.
Here’s some information provided by PCGS:
https://www.pcgs.com/news/koessl-matte-proof-gold-set-on-display
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Fun fact, ultimately the set was handled by JA upon liquidation. Prior to that, JA had offered Mr Koessl numerous high quality stickered proof coins for his collection, all of which he declined...his reason being that his current example was superior.
JA had questioned if he was a tire kicker, and stated in an interview something to the effect of "I started to wonder if the guy was serious, or if he intended to buy any coins at all."
When JA had the entire collection in front of him to evaluate, his response was - (and this is me paraphrasing)..."Sweet baby Jesus, he was right all along!"
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Dan, that and additional information/fun facts are included in the link I provided.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Oopsie, sorry Mark I hadn't even checked on the link before I commented! Shame on me, I probably just remembered that part from reading that article at some point in the past...which speaks to the significance of a statement like that from JA, because I usually have the memory of a goldfish 😅.
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Isn't it a bit of a cheat on the original question? You aren't really buying them sight unseen if you've already seen them...
I don’t think it’s a bit of a cheat. I don’t know how many of the coins I’ve seen or which ones. And as far as I know, it’s been more than 10 years since I’ve seen any of them. Still, if you’d like to call me a cheater, have at it.🫢
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I didn't call you a "cheater".
But even for a collection like Koessel, how do you know what to pay if you haven't seen it? There is a sight unseen price for every coin, pedigreed or not. But for a premium coin, it's nearly impossible to know what to pay if you haven't seen it.
If you want a coin out of a collection like that, you pay a very strong sight-seen piece even if you haven’t seen it. In order to help accomplish that, close your eyes and imagine the likely finest, wholly original example possible for the assigned grade, and pay accordingly.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Having lived in Rochester in the mid 1970s and known John Pittman I wouldn't mind having a coin with his pedigree on the label just because.....
it's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide
None. I did. Once.
Hated the coin.
Pedigrees are too much about ego. Sure, money can buy nice coins, but not every coin pedigreed is necessarily as nice as all the rest.
Again, pedigrees are just an ego thing
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
None / if it does not meet my standards or needs for client inventory it’s a no go.
Just think of Dan's posting as the Forum's version of the Reader's Digest.
None
USAF (Ret.) 1985 - 2005. E-4B Aircraft Maintenance Crew Chief and Contracting Officer.
My current Registry sets:
✓ Everyman Mint State Carson City Morgan Dollars (1878 – 1893)
✓ Everyman Mint State Lincoln Cents (1909 – 1958)
✓ Morgan Dollar GSA Hoard (1878 – 1891)
I'd roll the dice and buy just about any James A Stack coin, same for Eugene Gardner. Blay, Pogue, Simpson as well.
FYI Pogue didn't have the eye imo, it was Richard Burdick's eyes
Eliasberg
I'm cheating actually
The only saint I could possibly afford that was in his collection is the 1923 in MS65 and I've seen it.
(never for sale but I've seen it)
My Saint Set
While I understand the persistent answer of "None" to the question of whose pedigree would you buy sight unseen, I have found that in my little niche of the market anything from the collection of the late Steve Tanenbaum will do. That guy found everything.
Price it and send.
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
Nice to have; but, I have to like it first and can't overpay. I do have a Simpson which is one of my very favorites
There are a few that catch my eye and make me pause... Naftzger... Reynolds... but I wouldn't buy anything sight unseen.
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There are a few dealers and coin friends (they will remain nameless) who if they told me to buy a coin I would sight unseen. I bought an 18th century half eagle on a gondola while on a ski trip with a poor cell signal sight unseen around 10 years ago. I loved the coin and wasn’t disappointed. I did have the option of returning the coin if I was unhappy which made the decision much easier.
Maybe Pittman or "Colonel" Green. A club member gave us a good talk on John Jay Pittman last night, very dedicated collector.
Missouri Cabinet of Half Cents - there is not a bad coin in the bunch
www.brunkauctions.com
Zero
It's great to see that you're consistent, having posted essentially the same answer last week:
"None / if it does not meet my standards or needs for client inventory it’s a no go"
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
To be honest I could not come up with an answer to this at first. Then I remembered the Eugene H. Gardner collection. Don't think there was a dog in the lot.
Sight unseen would also make sense. I would be moving pretty fast having robbed a couple of banks to afford one of his coins. James