DOGE looking into eliminating Numismatic Product Division
ProofCollection
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If I don't start the thread, someone else will. Today's coinworld article:
https://www.coinworld.com/news/us-coins/doge-looking-into-potential-changes-in-mint-operations
Since the Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) was created, 300 positions have been trimmed from the United States Mint payroll, with efforts to trim 300 more.
The Numismatic Product Division is being targeted for complete elimination, with revenue to be redirected from the Mint’s Public Enterprise Fund for other purposes.
The 1996 Mint reform legislation created the Public Enterprise Fund for placing revenue from all product sales that support the bureau’s operations. The fund forwards millions of dollars annually to Treasury, to help pay down the national debt.
Mint revenue is generated from sales of numismatic products, bullion and related precious metals coins, commemorative coins, and circulation finish coins that are sold to the Federal Reserve for circulation distribution.
Comments
I think this is likely to be a non-starter. Last I heard this division actually makes profit so I don't see why it would need to be eliminated.
http://ProofCollection.Net
Um, if the numismatic products are discontinued, there will be little or no revenue to be re-directed.
Or am I missing something?
I think they eliminated that dept to go find out last week 🤥
That is a poorly written "article" -- Likely a redundant operation [i.e. middleman].
So...just spitballing here...but if the "Numismatic Products Division" is eliminated...wouldn't that also mean that there will no longer be any "numismatic products" produced and sold to collectors?
That seems like a pretty direct line from Point A to Point B to me. Unless their "function" is transferred elsewhere...and I'm not seeing any indication of that.
Coin World is spreading disinformation, Period.
Funny how that last echoes so much of what we hear. Well, "Emperor's New Clothes" about fits. DOGE is looking into many things and has not the best of track records shall we say and just because we don't want to hear certain things does not make them less true.
Well, just Love coins, period.
I guess in your world there are no forum rules.
That's not an insult; people have different views of the same information.
The substantial truth doctrine is an important defense in defamation law that allows individuals to avoid liability if the gist of their statement was true.
The article says that about 300 positions have been cut from the US Mint already, which is between 15-20% of the workforce.
The 2024 annual report indicates that Numismatic Products only made $42 million last year. It is higher margin than the bullion products but makes roughly the same money. ASEs would presumably still exist of Numismatic Products were cut If Numismatic Products were cut, there would still be a lot of things to collect.
The prices I have to pay for Numismatic Products for them to profit <10% indicates that it is not a very lean business. . I would say that Numismatic Products is at risk of being unprofitable either this year or in coming years. A 10-20% decrease in volume without other changes would put them in the red.
IG: DeCourcyCoinsEbay: neilrobertson
"Numismatic categorizations, if left unconstrained, will increase spontaneously over time." -me
A good butcher trims the fat. I like it removed before they weigh my steaks.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
Given the prices the mint charges for collectors’ items these days, it’s hard to believe that the Numismatic Product Division isn’t turning a profit for the mint. The only way it wouldn’t be is if the prices are so high that enough collectors and speculators have stopped buying to make its operations unprofitable. My unscientific speculation would be that is not the case.
We have come a long way since the days when the mint complained about losing money when it was selling Proof sets for $2.10. Today the silver sets, which admittedly have an additional base metal dollar and usually four additional quarters, are mint priced at over $150. That’s a significant price increase, even adjusting for inflation.
Just because the ledger may be positive for the Numismatic Products division doesn't mean it's being run efficiently. In addition to inefficient processes, most large organizations accumulate a lot of "dead weight" employees and until recently, the government hasn't really done much to clear that dead weight out. In an ideal world, the Mint would clear out its extra overhead and pass the savings on to us which isn't going to happen, the next best thing would just be for them to just stop wasting money.
http://ProofCollection.Net
First... not sure it will happen. If they are making a profit, then perhaps will keep, but perhaps trim down some things and / or merge with a different department, etc.
Second... I'm no longer that impressed with the Mint's numismatic offerings and gimmicks... so perhaps it is time to change that. JMO.
They made 42.0 million dollars last year on 469.0 million in revenue.
The bullion division is run nearly at cost, although overheads have increased significantly over recent years.
IG: DeCourcyCoinsEbay: neilrobertson
"Numismatic categorizations, if left unconstrained, will increase spontaneously over time." -me
It's hard to believe that the bullion division is doing so badly. I priced the four American Gold Eagle Proof set in September at the Tampa coin show. The mark-up was outragious. I think it was almost $2,000 over melt. i ended up buying an Uncirculated one ounce gold eagle from a dealer at the show and then finished this set from so local B&M guys.
Re those flippantly discussing "trimming fat"...I have a personal story...
I worked for 22 years for a magnificent 125 year old employee-owned firm...consistently returned 15% or more to investors every year. And then one year, due to the sudden death of the CEO, the board hired a "highly regarded" beancounter from outside. He immediately announced he was "trimming the fat"...by slashing his way through R&D, marketing, sales, and admin...just took a hatchet to all the wasteful "overhead" groups...who were actually driving the future sales pipeline.
He also replaced the board of directors with friends and yes men and women who rubberstampted everything.
Long story short...within 3 years the company was in the red (for the first time since the Depression)...and within 5 years we were sold at a discount to a competitor...so much for 125 years of success!
But the beancounter managed to swing a high paying job as an officer of the newly merged company...so he had a happy ending!
Every time I hear people tossing around terms like "dead wood" and "trimming fat" re others...I'd like them to experience life changing decisions made by morons.
IF you are saying that you are surprised at the bullion net because the mark-up on the PROOF AGE is high, read on. If not, I misunderstood you, and please, just ignore the following comment.
I am NOT an expert, but I think that the PROOF AGE would fall under the numismatic results, not the bullion.
When you get ready to sell these Proof sets, the first thing the potential buyers look at is the current price of gold bullion.
Most of the modern commemorative gold coin sell for melt, and many of them have been scrapped.
Private vs public entity has its differences. And most government bureaus aren’t being run like the 125 year old firm you were at.