Correct term for this imperfection

mensareject

I've seen several names for this surface irregularity on coins, but the examples varied as much as the terminology.

P0CKETCHANGE

Looks like a lamination error, but I'm no expert on those.

johnny9434

Agr> @P0CKETCHANGE said:

Looks like a lamination error, but I'm no expert on those.

This 😉 👍

JBK

Laminations are sometimes also called delaminations. You'll encounter both terms.

MWallace

What @JBK said. Laminations can also stay attached to the coin or fall off.

Namvet69

I recall seeing some compelling lamination flaw coins in slabs. Just can't offer any pics at this moment.

dcarr

@JBK said:
Laminations are sometimes also called delaminations. You'll encounter both terms.

.

"Lamination" refers to a situation where the layers are still present and still bonded.
"Delamination" is the correct term for the coin in question because a piece of a layer has delaminated and separated from the coin.

.

MsMorrisine

@4Redisin said:

Thank you for the clarification. The OP's coin is a delaminated laminated coin = a delamination coin because part of the original lamination is missing. IMO, you, several other members, and PCGS provide us little guys a great service. Thanks.

coin with delamination

delamination error

mensareject

Thank you all for your time and input.

jesbroken

Lamination means to unite multiple layers and delamination means those layers separate for different reasons. But it seems to be Lamination as the choice for the separation. JMO
Jim

lilolme

CONECA definition:

Error Ref .com has these categories:

https://www.error-ref.com/part-v-planchet-errors/

PCGS uses Planchet Flaw (Details holder code93) and Peeling lamination (Details not holder code 83) for non-error submissions it appears. Also states some are okay if....

https://www.pcgs.com/grades#grade93
https://www.pcgs.com/grades#grade83

But for Error submissions PCGS has Lamination graded slabs as seen in this current HA error auction.

https://coins.ha.com/itm/errors/1913-s-5c-buffalo-nickel-type-one-reverse-lamination-vg8-pcgs-pcgs-population-15-3475-and-0-68-mintage-2-105-000/a/60442-54189.s?ic4=ListView-Thumbnail-071515

CaptHenway

I emailed with Chris Pilliod, who is both a noted Numismatist and a full-time professional Metallurgist. He is the Pro from Dover.

He says that in the metals trade "to laminate" means to bond two or more layers of anything. If they then come apart, they are said to have "delaminated," whether or not all of the material is still present.

Likewise, a solid coin, such as a pre-1982 cent, any five cents piece or any 90% silver or gold coin, can develop one or more cracks in the solid metal and be said to be delaminated, again whether or not all of the material is still present. The various possibilities spelled out above are all examples of delaminations.

Curiously, in his trade such a flaw might be called a "sliver" or a "tear." I doubt that the hobby will ever adopt either term.

So, a coin with one or more cracks in it is properly called delaminated, whether or not any of the metal has detached from the piece. More descriptive terms can also be used to better communicate, such as for example a clamshell split clad coin. The goal is proper communication.

TD

lilolme

From my previous post (see below) - While error ref .com acknowledges the delimitation as the proper term, they state they are stuck with previous terminology used by coin researchers. From the searches I did I also found Lamination used in 'coin talk' or whatever one calls it and I can see why the authors of error ref .com mentioned being stuck with it, as it might be quite the task and confusion to change from all the prior coin references and/ or usage of lamination (with descriptors if desired or necessary).

JBK

@4Redisin said:
Yep, it will take another generation for the old terminology to die out and go the way of the "cud" and "double die."

? "Cud" is still very much alive, as is the incorrect "double die".

BLUEJAYWAY

This misused terminology reminds of when the letter O is used for the number 0 in descriptive talk. Except when a baseball score is 7-0 it's stated 7-nothing,not 7 to O or 7-0

JBK

@4Redisin said:

@JBK said:

@4Redisin said:
Yep, it will take another generation for the old terminology to die out and go the way of the "cud" and "double die."

? "Cud" is still very much alive, as is the incorrect "double die".

Not in my coin club.

So what is a cud called in your club?

emeraldATV

Gas bubbles ?

.

Same area.

yosclimber

@emeraldATV said:
Gas bubbles ?

Looks like contact marks on the 4.
Strange texture on the fields.
Could be from foreign matter on the surface? Example: glue.
Or maybe from something mechanical like a buffing wheel.

Same area.

The large raised "fish shaped" area above UNITED could be a cud (big die chip connected to the edge).
Or it could be foreign matter like solder or glue.
The strange texture in the fields could be from repeated contact, or other environmental damage.

"Gas bubbles" are something you might see on a 1982+ Lincoln cent,
where the copper plating has separated from the zinc main body of the coin.
But I don't think there is any gas involved. Just a raised area where the plating is separated.

PickinndGrinnin

@lilolme said:
CONECA definition:

Error Ref .com has these categories:

https://www.error-ref.com/part-v-planchet-errors/

PCGS uses Planchet Flaw (Details holder code93) and Peeling lamination (Details not holder code 83) for non-error submissions it appears. Also states some are okay if....

https://www.pcgs.com/grades#grade93
https://www.pcgs.com/grades#grade83

But for Error submissions PCGS has Lamination graded slabs as seen in this current HA error auction.

https://coins.ha.com/itm/errors/1913-s-5c-buffalo-nickel-type-one-reverse-lamination-vg8-pcgs-pcgs-population-15-3475-and-0-68-mintage-2-105-000/a/60442-54189.s?ic4=ListView-Thumbnail-071515

Well done there are many reasons why a delamination happens.
One thing you missed was improper annealing.

JBK

@4Redisin said:

@JBK said:

@4Redisin said:

@JBK said:

@4Redisin said:
Yep, it will take another generation for the old terminology to die out and go the way of the "cud" and "double die."

? "Cud" is still very much alive, as is the incorrect "double die".

Not in my coin club.

So what is a cud called in your club?

I'm shocked that you pretend ignorance so I view your post as a troll trying to "bait" an innocent person crossing the bridge he is under so he can grab them.

In my group, we call it a DIE BREAK that is connected to the rim. If it is large enough, we call it a major die break.

I refer you to my original comment:

"Cud" is still very much alive."

A "cud" is the result of a die break at the rim of the die. The term is still actively used in the hobby, even if your club has it's own terminology.

And I think the only troll you'll find is in the mirror.