Here's the thing about colonial coins...

MidLifeCrisis

Colonial coins in high grades are fun to collect ..if you can. By "high grade" I mean XF or better. Colonial coins below XF are just ugly. In fact, many colonial coins above XF are ugly. The problem is that the high grade, fun to collect colonial coins are often super expensive.

Of course, I'm making broad, blanket statements. But the point is, collecting colonial coins can be tough on the eyes and on the wallet. That's probably why most people don't collect them.

TheGoonies1985

I do not know why coin collectors want 150-300 year old coins to be perfect like they just came out of the mint. Just makes no sens to me. I understand the wow factor of coins in mint state but most coins are not perfect.

I prefer my coins in VG-F with nice eye appeal. Even some in G grade.

airplanenut

Would I enjoy a higher grade example? Sure. Is this VF ugly? I don’t think so at all. Does it hold an enormous amount of history with tons of stories to tell? Absolutely.

I’ve never been interested in minor varieties, so regardless of grade, much of colonial collecting doesn’t interest me beyond general type. So for that reason I’m not likely to be a colonial coin collector, but I still absolutely enjoy them in the big picture as fascinating pieces of history and an important part of US numismatics.

87redcivic

Colonials are the type of coin I like reading about. As others have said, there is a lot of history there.
It seems like a steep learning curve to start collecting them though - especially unslabbed. Maybe someday...

124Spider

So far, I own only one 18th century American coin, a 1794 large cent in VG08. I wanted a well-circulated coin, one that might have circulated during the presidencies of Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Madison and Monroe. An uncirculated coin would have none of that mystique. My one 17th century American coin is a pine tree shilling, in VG35. It, likewise, circulated for years in those colonial years, and had a mystique that an uncirculated (or lightly circulated) coin would not have had.

1630Boston

Don't hate me, as 1630 boston, I have these far from perfect coins and I love them, [UGLY IS IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER]

1630 boston

TimNH

I love my colonials, and think they are the great underappreciated 'bargain' in all of American numismatics (well OK there wasn't an 'America' yet but .. )

I did a box-of-20 as a Covid lockdown pursuit, great fun and I was surprised how affordable they were. Well most of them, the 1652 Mass silvers are 'up there', as was my Chalmers worm, but mostly under 1K in VF/XF. Rare stuff like the Higley and Sommer Island and stuff like that can get very pricy but I didn't go there.

Wish there was more discussion about them.

oldabeintx

My main interest in collecting things numismatic is their connection to our history. They’re like little Time Machines, but requiring some knowledge and imagination to fully appreciate them. Aesthetics are important to me but are secondary. Investment considerations are a poor third. So, all coin types used by our colonial ancestors are a large part of my US collection. That includes foreign coins as well.

TomB

Welcome back, @MidLifeCrisis.

lcutler

It's all about history for me. The crude planchets, less than perfect die work, the rough life they have led over the centuries, just like our country they came from rough beginnings. If they were perfect works of medallic art, I'd probably lose interest. I'll take an r6 Connecticut copper, off center, planchet voids, lots of wear and a bit of corrosion over an ms70 modern any day!

GuzziSport

I agree and all-in on early copper, be it federal or colonial. Vermonts are a particular passion, in part because of the charm in the various designs, the history, and I have a second home in the Rupert area a few short miles from the original mint site, so I feel a connection to the series.
Here’s an example I’ve had floating around in my SDB for a few decades, I believe it came from Tony Terranova at the old Bay State show. My favorite dealer just had it graded for me, I was unsure if it would straight grade due to the inconsistency of the strike, but the color and originality are first class, and I think it’s pretty cool to see the original unstruck side of the planchet. Every one is unique in its own way…. Part of the charm!

Colonialcoin

@MidLifeCrisis said:
Colonial coins in high grades are fun to collect ..if you can. By "high grade" I mean XF or better. Colonial coins below XF are just ugly. In fact, many colonial coins above XF are ugly. The problem is that the high grade, fun to collect colonial coins are often super expensive.

Of course, I'm making broad, blanket statements. But the point is, collecting colonial coins can be tough on the eyes and on the wallet. That's probably why most people don't collect them.

Just curious as what do you mean that “many colonial coins above XF are ugly.”? Which series in particular? Are the coins that you are viewing raw or graded?

seatedlib3991

I usually flip right past the colonial coins in my Redbook. I would be curious though. If you had to stay under $500 dollars a coin. (Much prefer $250.) what would a starter set of say 6 coins include? James

oldabeintx

@seatedlib3991 said:
I usually flip right past the colonial coins in my Redbook. I would be curious though. If you had to stay under $500 dollars a coin. (Much prefer $250.) what would a starter set of say 6 coins include? James

Don’t flip past the colonial section. Start with it, then go to the PCGS price list.

oldabeintx

@Colonialcoin said:

@MidLifeCrisis said:
Colonial coins in high grades are fun to collect ..if you can. By "high grade" I mean XF or better. Colonial coins below XF are just ugly. In fact, many colonial coins above XF are ugly. The problem is that the high grade, fun to collect colonial coins are often super expensive.

Of course, I'm making broad, blanket statements. But the point is, collecting colonial coins can be tough on the eyes and on the wallet. That's probably why most people don't collect them.

Just curious as what do you mean that “many colonial coins above XF are ugly.”? Which series in particular? Are the coins that you are viewing raw or graded?

I believe a more appropriate word for most domestically-minted colonials is “crude” rather than “ugly”. Or maybe “flawed”. Even the best preserved domestic colonials may have obvious flaws, are crude by modern coinage standards, or even by the standards of foreign mints at the time. Hence the charm and variety.

GuzziSport

Not to start a Walter Breen peeing match, but his Encyclopedia of US Coins has a great section on colonials.

As to reasonably priced colonials, there are lots of nice, raw state colonials out there under $500, particularly in the CT and NJ series.

A great place to start is Kevin Vinton (Indeetlib on eBay), he typically has a really nice selection, always beautifully photographed and nicely described. He’d be a great source to start a group of interesting, original and reasonably priced colonials IMO.
Good luck!

jedm

@GuzziSport said:
As to reasonably priced colonials, there are lots of nice, raw state colonials out there under $500, particularly in the CT and NJ series.
A great place to start is Kevin Vinton (Indeetlib on eBay), he typically has a really nice selection, always beautifully photographed and nicely described. He’d be a great source to start a group of interesting, original and reasonably priced colonials IMO.
Good luck!

I agree. Kevin has a great selection and I've had good experiences with him in the past and continue to keep an eye on his current offerings as well.

BillJones

As a collector who is into attractive coins, one has to adjust your perceptions based upon the coins you are collecting. Colonial coins were made under more primitive conditions. Therefore you can't expect them to look like U.S. products.

Having said that, I do have standards. I buy pieces that appeal to me. for the issue. Massachusetts made the best "colonial" (actually post revolution) copper coins. Vermont made some of the worst. Here are two examples.

The Virginia half penny was a Mint State hoard coin which was struck in England. Therefore you can find a nice one.

TimNH

@seatedlib3991 said:
If you had to stay under $500 dollars a coin. (Much prefer $250.) what would a starter set of say 6 coins include? James

6 coin colonial set for $250-500 -

1) old Netherlands Leeuwendaalder, find the best strike you can
2) French coin from 1711-22 or whatever, 9 deniers seems to be most popular
3) A Woods coin, either Hibernia or Rosa Americana
4) Spanish "pieces of eight", hopefully a proper pillar dollar but there are smaller denominations
5) Voce Populi
6) Virginia halfpenny

And we haven't even hit the 1776 cutoff yet, after that you can do another set -
1) "big 4" state coppers (MA, CT, NJ, VT)
2) Machin Mills counterfeit british halfpenny (those span back pre-revolution too)
3) Nova Constellatio
4) Nova Eborac
5) Auctori Plebis
6) Kentucky Token

OK some of those will be in rough shape under $500 but still fun & presentable. It's addictive, ask me how I know

Colonialcoin

@seatedlib3991 said:
I usually flip right past the colonial coins in my Redbook. I would be curious though. If you had to stay under $500 dollars a coin. (Much prefer $250.) what would a starter set of say 6 coins include? James

A cool starter set could consist of a Connecticut, Massachusetts copper, New Jersey, and a Vermont. Take your time and you should be able to find those issues with nice color, pleasing surfaces, even strike and full legends. Don’t settle. A Vermont 1787 or 1788 Mailed bust right will be the most expensive though not crazy priced. Also be careful will how the coins are graded, as both raw and slabbed coins are graded and priced all over the place. You could also get yourself a Rosa Americana as well as a Hibernia, or French colonial but those were not struck in the colonies.

Good luck.

lcutler

I'm not looking for any more competition, but Connecticuts are ridiculously inexpensive. I off and on collect them by die variety. Right now I'm fooling around with Nova Constellatios, love the design and they circulated very heavily in the new United States. I've dabbled in most of the colonial and state issues, they are just so interesting I can't confine myself to one series.

seatedlib3991

Interesting leads. I will look them up in Breen. thanks. james

Sapyx

@MidLifeCrisis said:
Colonial coins in high grades are fun to collect ..if you can. By "high grade" I mean XF or better. Colonial coins below XF are just ugly. In fact, many colonial coins above XF are ugly. The problem is that the high grade, fun to collect colonial coins are often super expensive.

Of course, I'm making broad, blanket statements. But the point is, collecting colonial coins can be tough on the eyes and on the wallet. That's probably why most people don't collect them.

You can replace every instance of the word "colonial" in the OP's post with "mediaeval", and the post is still 100% true.

There are times, in the history of numismatics, where the artistic quality of the coins was never all that high, even when the coins were still newly minted. The early American series is just the one that American collectors are likely to be most familiar with.

Let's be honest, many of the early Federal designs aren't all that much to write home about either, in terms of objective artistic merits. Yet, we all have to learn to like the unlikeable.

WCC

If I were collecting US coinage, colonials would be on my list, but all of the ones I want badly enough are too expensive or not available.

The only one I've ever owned is multiples of the 1773 Virginia half penny, the more common variety. My step grandmother had a hoard of several hundred from a family collection she inherited. This was back in December 1975. Coin were VG or so, and I traded it to my local coin dealer to acquire a Capped Bust half.

Eddi

I only have one example of an American Colonial coin, and a few Post Colonial/Pre-federal. None in better than VF or thereabouts. That was the best I could afford, and are still very appealing to me.
I think they would resent being called 'ugly'

Zoins

@MidLifeCrisis said:
Colonial coins in high grades are fun to collect ..if you can. By "high grade" I mean XF or better. Colonial coins below XF are just ugly. In fact, many colonial coins above XF are ugly. The problem is that the high grade, fun to collect colonial coins are often super expensive.

Of course, I'm making broad, blanket statements. But the point is, collecting colonial coins can be tough on the eyes and on the wallet. That's probably why most people don't collect them.

An option is 19th century replicas like this PCGS MS63+:

Zoins

Another option is to go the other way with lowballs, like Brent Pogue and myself!

I find this one quite pleasing on the eyes

1630Boston

@Eddi said:
I only have one example of an American Colonial coin, and a few Post Colonial/Pre-federal. None in better than VF or thereabouts. That was the best I could afford, and are still very appealing to me.
I think they would resent being called 'ugly'

Very nice examples

jedm

I'm not trying to hijack this thread, but hey I just don't get many chances here to post old copper, so here are a couple of my favorites:

This New Jersey example that I really enjoy was acquired from CRO. I like the doubling on the reverse.


I no longer own this Nova Constelatio, but originally it came to me by way of David Kahn.

lkenefic

Minting practices were more of a cottage industry back at the end of the 18th Century. Even if a coin managed to get fully struck AND on a nice planchet, survival of some of these pre-Industrial Revolution coins... especially copper coins... that are also not corroded or otherwise messed-with... is rare. I'm definitely not in the deep end of the pool here, but I still like my meager collection... still looking for a Fugio Cent:

ambro51

ALL colonial coin enthusiasts should own a copy of Sylvester Crosby s book on colonial coins. It IS outdated, but the line drawings of the coins and VERY extensive period documentation he included cover the actual history of the coins creation and the legal proceedings involved. Quite interesting.

seatedlib3991

@ambro51. Do you have the specific title. i failed to find it at wizard supply using that author name. James

MidLifeCrisis

@seatedlib3991 said:
@ambro51. Do you have the specific title. i failed to find it at wizard supply using that author name. James

I believe @ambro51 is referring to The Early Coins of America by Crosby, Sylvester Sage (1875). You can learn more and actually look at it on the Newman Numismatic Portal here:

https://nnp.wustl.edu/library/book/512407

seatedlib3991

@MidLifeCrisis . Thank you for that information. James

Colonialcoin

@MidLifeCrisis said:

@seatedlib3991 said:
@ambro51. Do you have the specific title. i failed to find it at wizard supply using that author name. James

I believe @ambro51 is referring to The Early Coins of America by Crosby, Sylvester Sage (1875). You can learn more and actually look at it on the Newman Numismatic Portal here:

https://nnp.wustl.edu/library/book/512407

It has been 150 years since it was published and is still the gold standard. Stay away from the Durst reprint. If you catch the bug, there are many specialized books that focus on a given series.

lcutler

The Whitman Encyclopedia of Colonial and Early American Coins isn't a bad little book that covers all of the main series. Even covers most die varieties, but the pictures are pretty small for attributing.

HoledandCreative

I find mine entertaining to me and to most of those I show them to. I tried to get a coin from each page in Yeoman. Not going to happen.

MidLifeCrisis

@lcutler said:
The Whitman Encyclopedia of Colonial and Early American Coins isn't a bad little book that covers all of the main series. Even covers most die varieties, but the pictures are pretty small for attributing.

-

I like In Yankee Doodle's Pocket: The Myth, Magic and Politics of Money in Early America by Will Nipper

Bochiman

@1630Boston said:
Don't hate me, as 1630 boston, I have these far from perfect coins and I love them, [UGLY IS IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER]

1630 boston

Can I hate you since those are coins I've wanted but never gotten? I have the coppers but not the silvers, for MA