@VKurtB said:
I understand that many collectors, especially new ones, have this fascination with wanting to know what caused a particular coin to be damaged. It is frustrating to not know. I get that. But they must understand this: the mainstream numismatic hobby REALLY DOESN’T CARE. Damage is a disqualifying thing. It is the end of the story, not the beginning of an inquiry. What caused damage is the most utterly irrelevant thing imaginable. The need to know is not ever going to be important to the mainstream of the hobby. The fascination with calling every darned thing an “error” is a pernicious thing in the hobby that must be excised.
If a few collectors like to collect lowball grades, why not collect damaged coins? Damage may be disqualifying to most but so are excessively worn coins. Who are you to tell people what they like or should collect? Numismatic police?
And I presume that the original poster knows it's PMD but some reactions presume with 100% certainty that he didn't and use this as a basis to get offended. I know that's it's PMD but enjoyed speculating how it was caused. Knowing how genuine errors are made is only half of the story. Looking at damage and knowing that it was impossible BECAUSE of the minting process is an equally valid method.
Some of you self proclaimed sheriffs need to reign it in a bit.
Collector and dealer in obsolete currency. Always buying all obsolete bank notes and scrip.
I don’t even object to being curious about the OP’s piece’s history of damage. I think it was worth wondering about too, despite the fact that it always did exhibit damage on both sides. It’s atypical looking, and that’s worth wanting to know about. The main point I made originally and repeat now, is that FOR BETTER OR WORSE, this is not the kind of thing that the mainstream of the numismatic world cares about. Take an ANA course, somewhere. The instructors will be even far more “discouraging” and dismissive than I am on my worst day. The Chief Curator of the ANS’ (New York, not COS) museum will literally yell at you for being ignorant and hang up on you if you want to talk about EITHER “how much is my error coin worth?” or talk about a damaged coin. He was my instructor for the course I took last year at Summer Seminar. Who said he’ll do that? HE DID! He is an academic, a qualified expert by any description, and he is VERY upset about the turn the hobby has taken lately.
@VKurtB said:
I don’t know about you, but I have never seen a slab that listed the cause of damage.
I have, and NOW you have, too! You're welcome.
You’re right about the two Morgans. They were given “.98” codes. That makes them generically “damaged”. Thank you. The Barber dime, with the “.95” code, and the “.97” environmental code, are actually something different and apart. The 98 code is usually reserved for “kinetic” damage of some sort.
@VKurtB said:
I don’t even object to being curious about the OP’s piece’s history of damage. I think it was worth wondering about too, despite the fact that it always did exhibit damage on both sides. It’s atypical looking, and that’s worth wanting to know about. The main point I made originally and repeat now, is that FOR BETTER OR WORSE, this is not the kind of thing that the mainstream of the numismatic world cares about. Take an ANA course, somewhere. The instructors will be even far more “discouraging” and dismissive than I am on my worst day. The Chief Curator of the ANS’ (New York, not COS) museum will literally yell at you for being ignorant and hang up on you if you want to talk about EITHER “how much is my error coin worth?” or talk about a damaged coin. He was my instructor for the course I took last year at Summer Seminar. Who said he’ll do that? HE DID! He is an academic, a qualified expert by any description, and he is VERY upset about the turn the hobby has taken lately.
Just pointing out that I’m waaaay down the list of guys that get pretty radical about this issue. Are you unaware of how this issue gets people all worked up “ats”? They can sometimes get downright nasty about it.
@VKurtB said:
Just pointing out that I’m waaaay down the list of guys that get pretty radical about this issue. Are you unaware of how this issue gets people all worked up “ats”? They can sometimes get downright nasty about it.
Just because you're not the only one doesn't justify you intentionally engaging in behavior that you apparently know is rude.
@jmlanzaf said:
There are 1.2 trillion ways a coin can get damaged. It is far easier to learn what legitimate errors are than to try to identify every possible damage mechanism.
If you squeeze it in a vice with something pliable like leather on the reverse, you can do something like that. It could also be a knife edge slice with a separate scrape. But it's really not even worth asking the question. It's damage. How it happened is simply idle, worthless speculation.
@jmlanzaf you are now scolding someone else based on their rudeness. But I still remember what got me to post in this thread in the first place. @Kurisu asked a question that mattered to him and you diminished the question (see your quote with my added emphasis in bold.) By diminishing the question, I believe you likewise diminish the asker of the question, and I still call that bullying.
You called me a bully. Well, I'll admit that when there are obvious trolls on the site, I'll pile on a bit, for the sake of the lolz. But @Kurisu is clearly not a troll, he's a good citizen with a question that he deemed interesting enough to post about. To tell him "it's not work asking" is an offense that, in my mind, begs for an apology.
It's nobody's job to educate the board on the idea that certain topics are worthless. Everyone has their journey here and all are deserving of respect.
@jmlanzaf said:
There are 1.2 trillion ways a coin can get damaged. It is far easier to learn what legitimate errors are than to try to identify every possible damage mechanism.
If you squeeze it in a vice with something pliable like leather on the reverse, you can do something like that. It could also be a knife edge slice with a separate scrape. But it's really not even worth asking the question. It's damage. How it happened is simply idle, worthless speculation.
@jmlanzaf you are now scolding someone else based on their rudeness. But I still remember what got me to post in this thread in the first place. @Kurisu asked a question that mattered to him and you diminished the question (see your quote with my added emphasis in bold.) By diminishing the question, I believe you likewise diminish the asker of the question, and I still call that bullying.
You called me a bully. Well, I'll admit that when there are obvious trolls on the site, I'll pile on a bit, for the sake of the lolz. But @Kurisu is clearly not a troll, he's a good citizen with a question that he deemed interesting enough to post about. To tell him "it's not work asking" is an offense that, in my mind, begs for an apology.
It's nobody's job to educate the board on the idea that certain topics are worthless. Everyone has their journey here and all are deserving of respect.
And, again, you are adding subtext that was not intended. You are also ignoring the INTENDED context; in the context of identifying errors, it is idle worthless speculation. Perhaps that did not come across. And perhaps it was too fine a line. If the title was "how did this damage happen", I likely don't comment at all.
But, take it however you wish.
I find it hysterical that you are still on me after the more obvious and admitted rudeness from another poster. If you don't see the difference between his dozen posts and my one....well, that's also fine. We all have our biases. I didn't criticize his first dozen posts, i simply pointed out to HIM that admitting you are rude but that saying that others are worse isn't a defense.
You don't like "worthless", I'll retract it.
It remains true, however, that identifying errors is about being able to explain the minting process and has absolutely nothing to do with not being able to explain damage.
@NeophyteNumismatist said:
Life is difficult when one's skillset is relegated to incessant bragging and insulting others. It is particularly challenging when the insult hurling braggart is mediocre on his/her best day. Just sayin'.
Geez, this guy @VKurtB is one of the reasons I quit going across the street, and now he's here?
@NeophyteNumismatist said:
Life is difficult when one's skillset is relegated to incessant bragging and insulting others. It is particularly challenging when the insult hurling braggart is mediocre on his/her best day. Just sayin'.
Geez, this guy @VKurtB is one of the reasons I quit going across the street, and now he's here?
Well on a positive note he is no longer across the street so maybe you could try that forum out again.
Comments
If a few collectors like to collect lowball grades, why not collect damaged coins? Damage may be disqualifying to most but so are excessively worn coins. Who are you to tell people what they like or should collect? Numismatic police?
And I presume that the original poster knows it's PMD but some reactions presume with 100% certainty that he didn't and use this as a basis to get offended. I know that's it's PMD but enjoyed speculating how it was caused. Knowing how genuine errors are made is only half of the story. Looking at damage and knowing that it was impossible BECAUSE of the minting process is an equally valid method.
Some of you self proclaimed sheriffs need to reign it in a bit.
I have, and NOW you have, too! You're welcome.
I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.
I don’t even object to being curious about the OP’s piece’s history of damage. I think it was worth wondering about too, despite the fact that it always did exhibit damage on both sides. It’s atypical looking, and that’s worth wanting to know about. The main point I made originally and repeat now, is that FOR BETTER OR WORSE, this is not the kind of thing that the mainstream of the numismatic world cares about. Take an ANA course, somewhere. The instructors will be even far more “discouraging” and dismissive than I am on my worst day. The Chief Curator of the ANS’ (New York, not COS) museum will literally yell at you for being ignorant and hang up on you if you want to talk about EITHER “how much is my error coin worth?” or talk about a damaged coin. He was my instructor for the course I took last year at Summer Seminar. Who said he’ll do that? HE DID! He is an academic, a qualified expert by any description, and he is VERY upset about the turn the hobby has taken lately.
You’re right about the two Morgans. They were given “.98” codes. That makes them generically “damaged”. Thank you. The Barber dime, with the “.95” code, and the “.97” environmental code, are actually something different and apart. The 98 code is usually reserved for “kinetic” damage of some sort.
You blame them for your behavior here?
Just pointing out that I’m waaaay down the list of guys that get pretty radical about this issue. Are you unaware of how this issue gets people all worked up “ats”? They can sometimes get downright nasty about it.
Just because you're not the only one doesn't justify you intentionally engaging in behavior that you apparently know is rude.
@jmlanzaf you are now scolding someone else based on their rudeness. But I still remember what got me to post in this thread in the first place. @Kurisu asked a question that mattered to him and you diminished the question (see your quote with my added emphasis in bold.) By diminishing the question, I believe you likewise diminish the asker of the question, and I still call that bullying.
You called me a bully. Well, I'll admit that when there are obvious trolls on the site, I'll pile on a bit, for the sake of the lolz. But @Kurisu is clearly not a troll, he's a good citizen with a question that he deemed interesting enough to post about. To tell him "it's not work asking" is an offense that, in my mind, begs for an apology.
It's nobody's job to educate the board on the idea that certain topics are worthless. Everyone has their journey here and all are deserving of respect.
New website: Groovycoins.com Capped Bust Half Dime registry set: Bikergeek CBHD LM Set
And, again, you are adding subtext that was not intended. You are also ignoring the INTENDED context; in the context of identifying errors, it is idle worthless speculation. Perhaps that did not come across. And perhaps it was too fine a line. If the title was "how did this damage happen", I likely don't comment at all.
But, take it however you wish.
I find it hysterical that you are still on me after the more obvious and admitted rudeness from another poster. If you don't see the difference between his dozen posts and my one....well, that's also fine. We all have our biases. I didn't criticize his first dozen posts, i simply pointed out to HIM that admitting you are rude but that saying that others are worse isn't a defense.
You don't like "worthless", I'll retract it.
It remains true, however, that identifying errors is about being able to explain the minting process and has absolutely nothing to do with not being able to explain damage.
We need some sorta bucket loader in here 😶
Geez, this guy @VKurtB is one of the reasons I quit going across the street, and now he's here?
Well on a positive note he is no longer across the street so maybe you could try that forum out again.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.