Educate me...what's up with this odd (damage?) on only the obverse? 1988 D Quarter
Kurisu
Posts: 2,027 ✭✭✭✭✭
That area to the right of the straight line is slightly raised.
My brain is struggling to imagine what would've caused this on only the obverse...
Maybe I'm just having a senior moment?
Happy to take more pics if need be.
Coins are Neato!
"If it's a penny for your thoughts and you put in your two cents worth, then someone...somewhere...is making a penny." - Steven Wright
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A vice...? not sure.... but definitely PMD
Young Numismatist. Over 20 successful transactions including happy BST transactions with @CoinHoarder, @Namvet69, @Bruce7789, @TeacherCollector, @JWP, @CuKevin, @CoinsExplorer, @greencopper, @PapiNE and @privatecoin
"Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing" -Benjamin Franklin
There are 1.2 trillion ways a coin can get damaged. It is far easier to learn what legitimate errors are than to try to identify every possible damage mechanism.
If you squeeze it in a vice with something pliable like leather on the reverse, you can do something like that. It could also be a knife edge slice with a separate scrape. But it's really not even worth asking the question. It's damage. How it happened is simply idle, worthless speculation.
@Kurisu - I think it's fine for you to ponder these kinds of imponderables. Yes, it's damage. So what. You are curious about it and curiosity is a fantastic thing and will lead to knowledge and discovery. Don't let anyone put you in their box. It's obviously dark and miserable there.
New website: Groovycoins.com Capped Bust Half Dime registry set: Bikergeek CBHD LM Set
(damage?) implies that he's not sure it's damage. So the VERY helpful advice for all collectors is to spend time learning what real errors are not speculating on the infinite number of possible damage mechanisms. It's not about being in a "box".
It's the equivalent to going to the doctor with abdominal pain and having her tell you that she's going to do a 7 generation family tree and get medical records from your relatives before actually looking at your belly. You might get to the same place, but one way gets you there far more quickly.
I understand that many collectors, especially new ones, have this fascination with wanting to know what caused a particular coin to be damaged. It is frustrating to not know. I get that. But they must understand this: the mainstream numismatic hobby REALLY DOESN’T CARE. Damage is a disqualifying thing. It is the end of the story, not the beginning of an inquiry. What caused damage is the most utterly irrelevant thing imaginable. The need to know is not ever going to be important to the mainstream of the hobby. The fascination with calling every darned thing an “error” is a pernicious thing in the hobby that must be excised.
@VKurtB and @jmlanzaf, if you don't care - why are you posting in this thread?
@Kurisu was curious enough about a coin to post pictures and start a thread. People that don't have an interest in the thread can move along without comment, without dropping a load of their own wisdom on the guy. He said "Educate me," not "Drop a big steaming load on me." Jeez, I hate bullies.
New website: Groovycoins.com Capped Bust Half Dime registry set: Bikergeek CBHD LM Set
We have a solemn duty to educate people about our hobby, warts and all, with all its historical standards We are merely pointing out that inquiring about the causes of damage is not now, nor has it ever been, a mainstream part of this hobby.
I don’t know about you, but I have never seen a slab that listed the cause of damage.
Look, I get it. It’s frustrating. But it does NOBODY ANY FAVORS to leave them flailing at a non-existent subspecialty of the hobby. There are probably thousands of collectors, mostly new and “green” who share his curiosity. That doesn’t make it wise to care about it. It is a curiosity that has just appeared VERY relatively recently, due to clickbait websites mostly.
Then why are you trying to bully us...
I did offer education. He wasn't sure if he had damage or an error. I gave the very relevant and excellent advice to him and anyone else who reads the thread to study errors not damage.
There are very few ways that "errors" happen at the Mint versus an infinite number of ways that damage happens. The first question should always be: how would that happen in the minting process? There is no need to ever ask how that could have happened in the street.
Nobody pooped on him, no matter what subtext you want to read into my advice. I will kindly say the same thing on the next similar thread that gets posted, including the parking lot coins.
I think you are misreading everyone, including the OP. Why do you think it says "(damage?)" and not "damage"?
You’re the wart, a blowhard who belongs back across the street where we left you.
I submit that there is ONLY ONE TYPE OF PERSON who encourages this “errors everywhere” “collect whatever you like” mindset - the crooks who are selling junk damage as actual errors on Etsy and eBay. Profiteers. Criminals.
Okay, Star Wars universe level crooks, too.
That’s a good noob. You speak to men and women here. Please make an effort to figure out what someone knows, or better, does, in these forums before importing duly solemn droppings from ATS.
Here ain’t there.
weird one for sure
Meaning what exactly? That you are the biggest bully here? An important dealer maybe? Let me be frank. To me, there is no such thing as someone more important than someone else. ESPECIALLY on a message board.
@VKurtB sez:
I don’t enjoy your posts across the street and it’s a bummer to see your crappy prose here.
And that that you write too many words that say something obvious, to many who have read it before.
Nobody has to like me or my posts. That’s your right. And I don’t have to like anyone else’s. I am largely unfamiliar with yours, but I gotta say, it’s not looking promising. Look, I am a particular flavor of collector. I am an “inside the ANA’s bureaucracy and programs” sort of collector. I will never apologize for that. Hey, I realize all the “cool kids” put down the ANA, for reasons that expired several decades ago. I am a traveler’s traveler to go live to places, London, Paris, Berlin, Edinburgh. Not gonna apologize for that either. It’s fun, and I enjoy it. I don’t have fun (anymore) dealing online. It was once fun but has been ruined by crooks. The jury is out again regarding national shows. They are lately far more of an enjoyment challenge than they were 15 or so years ago. I turn 70 this year, and I don’t have as much tolerance as I once did.
No one asked you to apologize for anything. You are setting up strawmen so you can knock them down and feel victorious.
BTW, it's nice that you travel, and those are great places to visit, but they're pretty routine and hardly make you a "traveler's traveler".
But I have a limit. I won’t go anywhere that can’t trace its culture through the Western Enlightenment. I have zero desire to explore other cultural traditions. I have visited and slept overnight in 49 of the 50 states. (Not Alaska yet.)
@VKurtB —
I add little here.
What did you add to this thread? Kirisu contributes a lot for my consumption and you dosed him after four or five other posts that discouraged inquiry too. You waste your authority in a thread that’s in the sewer.
Kirisu is not the issue here. He is one individual who has a perfectly understandable curiosity about a damaged coin. I find it curious too. Here is the problem - this hobby has never done that. The bigger problem is the many thousands of collectors new to the hobby that have been hit with the same or similar media that causes people to misunderstand what this hobby is and does. There are two options as I see it. One - let it go and let him think he’s onto something the numismatic field cares about, but it does not. Two - let him know and perhaps (only being partly serious here) he can create a new field of study that does PRECISELY this. Maybe it can be called “Coin Damage Forensics”. They could have their own shows and conventions. Maybe in Rosemont.
can we surrender back this thread to the op
it's a total off the rails train wreck now
it's an interesting set of damage marks as the op pointed out. quite the blow on one site with minimal signs on the reverse plus, look at the rim on the obverse. if something with an edge made that line and crushed the metal near the rim... why wasn't part of the rear of the head crushed too
Ok wow, didn't expect all this.
My honest input is that I'm by no means a new collector.
I've learned A LOT about diagnosing errors in this forum. Including directly from some of the true masters in the realm of errors and varities.
I said "damage?" because that was my best guess after not being able to diagnose it as an error...while simultaneously struggling to imagine what sort of thing(s) could cause this because it came across as highly unusual damage to me. Which (identifying damage) arguably also helps with identifying errors,
What I'm trying to express is that even though my guts say "damage" and I was unable to diagnose it as an error...everything about me resists saying "I can't diagnose it as an error so it MUST be damage."
Similar to the concept of "It's a UFO and I can't identify what it is so it MUST be aliens."
I more than appreciate the learning I've experienced here and because of that I'm also willing to put myself out there with what sometimes may seem an obvious answer to some or even a stupid question to others... I love this place
Coins are Neato!
"If it's a penny for your thoughts and you put in your two cents worth, then someone...somewhere...is making a penny." - Steven Wright
I am starting to agree with @creg. How did your already tiresome and sanctimonious anti-parking-lot-junk-finds drum pounding lead so quickly to sharing your xenophobic travel agenda?
This board is new for you. How about dipping a toe in first? Sheesh.
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
Not so much new. Just low frequency. I’ve been here over six years.
Thanks @MsMorrisine you absolutely nailed my thinking with your observation of the coin, I appreciate that.
Coins are Neato!
"If it's a penny for your thoughts and you put in your two cents worth, then someone...somewhere...is making a penny." - Steven Wright
everything about me resists saying "I can't diagnose it as an error so it MUST be damage."
There. That right there. That is the essence of my problem with your approach. Do what you want. You clearly will anyway and obviously others will support you in that. But this line above is just wrong. The correct thing to do is to commit FULLY to “I can’t diagnose it as an error so it MUST be damage.” You will be correct 99.9999% or more of the time by adopting that as a mantra.
No one supports him. Everyone knows it's damage. We are decent to OP because he's a decent guy.
Even though you are correct about the coin (as is everyone else, not exactly difficult) and generally correct about the annoyance of people finding "errors" everywhere (also like everyone else), we are standing up for OP because you come across as an enormous d-bag.
On a board with some enormous primadonnas and colossal egos, you are really making a run for the leaderboard over the last couple of days.
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
People who get annoyed at silliness, as admittedly I do to an extreme, sometimes just cannot get past it. Letting it go sometimes makes me want to peel my face off. If I COULD let it go, I WOULD, but I genuinely cannot. It is not within my skill set. Sorry. I’m sure that the OP is a delight. I have no doubt of it. But I live in a world, for better or worse, where right is right and wrong is just wrong. No extra credit points for nice in my world. That’s what makes me a particular SOB of an exhibit judge, I guess.
I'm getting what some of the others have said about your approach to things...
It's ok, I've raised children and I understand that phase where the hobby is attempting to push people's buttons or something, to get a rise out of them... I also had a great Aunt Celia who had a similar approach to things...her life-long hobbie was complaining and critiquing. I'm pretty sure she felt it validated her life.
Lol it won't work on me. Like I've said, I've raised children and even worse... I've been a big-box retail manager.
But ummmm, thanks for also clarifying that your approach is "right" and others are wrong in regard to understanding things.
A teacher, you are not.
Also, yes, I am quite a delight
Coins are Neato!
"If it's a penny for your thoughts and you put in your two cents worth, then someone...somewhere...is making a penny." - Steven Wright
Well your experience as a big box retail manager IS impressive. Not something I’d like to do. I spent the last 13 years of my working career in politics, or rather, poliCY. State government Judiciary Committee staff. We are all products of our experiences in the end. For several years, I handled all Pennsylvania impeachment petitions, from Borough Constable to Supreme Court Associate Justice and everything in between.
@VKurtB
So what’s it to you?
You claim solemn duty to educate, you’re a horrible teacher in those forums—the “sage on stage”.
You used up all of your material across the street. You are clueless here.
You flail like a noob. Just say “uncle” and be nice to the “little people” hence.
Although VKurtB has failed at being a decent person- as demonstrated on this thread- I hold out high hopes for him. Perhaps not when he turns 70. Too soon and asking too much.
But maybe when he approaches 80?
Here's to being optomistist.
How’s that working out for you now?
Nuance is dead. That's why politics in this country is such a mess. Very rarely is the world black and white.
The damage is not only on the obverse.
On the reverse, DOLLAR is somewhat flattened, and I'm sure you know this is opposite
the flattened obv rim above ERT.
This rules out single impact from a planar object with a straight edge.
But it could be other things.
Like an initial impact from a straight edge, and then additional impacts from something else high and low on the rim.
If the reverse side of the coin was on a semi soft surface like wood, the impact would be somewhat spread out on the reverse.
Another possibility is impact from a nonplanar (somewhat dished) object with a straight edge.
P.S. @Kurisu never said he thinks it is an error.
He just said he wonders what caused the damage.
Actually he did ask "damage?" And he also said that he didn't want to just call it damage because he couldn't figure out what the error was.
That is accurate. But it’s no excuse for VKB to use his thread to introduce himself.
I am not defending his excesses. His presence on this thread almost makes me want to switch sides. I felt the initial point needed to be made for future readers of the thread, but I don't see any point in piling on.
[I'm also not sure why people are so defensive about the point. If the OP were a new poster, the "usual suspevts" would have jumped all over them calling the coin "worthless" and a "parking lot coin". ]
Yes, since he did include the ? then he was not certain it was damage.
But he did use the word damage and did not use the word error.
So he was "leaning toward damage".
I suppose this could be thought of as "some chance it is an error".
But he was not saying "I don't think it is damage, so it must be an error".
@jmlanzaf mused:
That’s the good guy premium. Kurisu is a giver to the forum, not a rando. I agree with you—our own gang tacklers need new material too,
Funny you should ask. I won the Joe Boling Award for outstanding achievement in exhibit judging the last time we were in Rosemont. And the time before that, I won the Glenn Smedley Award. Apparently, the ANA likes me fine just the way I am. Your mileage apparently DOES vary. Guess which concerns me more. And yes, the prevalence of umm, inhibited social cues among exhibitors is kinda high. I think quite a few are “on the spectrum”. It’s almost a requirement.
@VKurtB
No, It’s not funny, not even odd funny that you would tell us that now. It is what you model ATS.
And what do you receive when you crow about Joe and Glenn in a forum thread?
Not sure what “model” means in this context. You can do me a favor. You can list the Poster Personality Police duty roster. You clearly are a Captain or higher. Introduce me to the guys. Hey, I get it. Some guys have forum thread “rules of the road”. Good for them. I never had any, and I don’t support any. The content is all that matters to me. I don’t care a whit if you’re nice or not. It’s about the content and “it’s all about the accuracy”. I’m a 60-year Philadelphia Eagles fan. “Nobody likes us. We don’t care.” I didn’t start that chant, but I could’ve.
You can't separate the message from the delivery. Your initial point was valid but the way your are presenting it has undermined the point you were trying to make.
So it’s close to “what you say is right, but I don’t care for your tone”? Got it. I never have cared if anyone likes my tone or not.
Model = posting behavior
No favors, but keep acting out and they’ll probably pop up. You and I are enough entertainment presently.
Content is fine, if VKB, and his humbuggery are not the content.
Jus’ sayin’. If I let perceived rudeness on the part of numismatists ruin my enjoyment of the hobby, I would have quit back in 1963. Rudeness has been pretty much the rule for over six decades, not the exception. And those are primarily dealers who have stuff to sell. In my earlier years, I had more coins literally thrown back at me dismissively than I could ever hope to count. Club members too.
So you’ve ruined others’ enjoyment for 62 years?
It’s jus’ all about you, ain’t it?
Life is difficult when one's skillset is relegated to incessant bragging and insulting others. It is particularly challenging when the insult hurling braggart is mediocre on his/her best day. Just sayin'.
I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.