@coinbuf said:
The coin in the op is without question MS66+ in today's market grading world so MS67 is not that much of a stretch. A case where the excellent luster carried the load just as some toning gives a grade bump.
The coin might be MS66+ “without question” to you. But to a number of us, that’s far from the case. The images (which granted, might be highly misleading) make it appear that the coin’s obverse is peppered with conspicuous contact marks. And excellent luster can’t even begin to compensate for that.
I'm sorry but you are not correct, in today's market grading driven grading room luster and color overcome subpar surfaces quite often. I don't agree with greadflation (no that is not a typo) and it shouldn't be that way but it is. I've been collecting Lincolns for decades and have seen many coins like this in 66 or 67 holders, the grade doesn't surprise me in the least even with the subpar images.
It’s good to know that you can be so certain in your assessment and opinion, even though more than 10 other posters (as in nearly everyone else who replied) think the coin deserved a lower grade than you do. You should start a one-man grading service.
I'm not sure what has your panties in such a wad here Mark, is it that your grade guess was far too low.
I never said I agree with the MS67 grade, only that I see both PCGS and NGC over grade coins (of all type and denomination) due to excellent luster and/or color while ignoring or discounting surface presentation. While I came into this thread after the reveal, I would have guessed MS66+ for the grade knowing how PCGS grades and what they value and discount when grading.
In a recent thread about grading a seated half you chastised members of the forum who guessed lower than AU
Maybe you should apply your own words to yourself as your MS63RD grade was far too strict.
No panties in a wad, here, but rather, more than mild surprise at your below comment and attitude, despite the overwhelming disagreement with your assessment. I’m often confident in posting minimum or maximum grade guesses/estimates. But I don’t remember being so to the extent of saying “without question…”. And if nearly everyone disagreed with me, I’d at least question my own assessment and wonder where I might have gone wrong.
“The coin in the op is without question MS66+ in today's market grading so MS67 is not that much of a stretch. A case where the excellent luster carried the load just as some toning gives a grade bump.”
Thankfully I have confidence in my area, Lincolns, not to be shaken by some random guesses on a coin forum from people that have never seen the coin in hand. And my confidence is rewarded as all those guesses; including yours; were way wrong.
@coinbuf said:
The coin in the op is without question MS66+ in today's market grading world so MS67 is not that much of a stretch. A case where the excellent luster carried the load just as some toning gives a grade bump.
The coin might be MS66+ “without question” to you. But to a number of us, that’s far from the case. The images (which granted, might be highly misleading) make it appear that the coin’s obverse is peppered with conspicuous contact marks. And excellent luster can’t even begin to compensate for that.
I'm sorry but you are not correct, in today's market grading driven grading room luster and color overcome subpar surfaces quite often. I don't agree with greadflation (no that is not a typo) and it shouldn't be that way but it is. I've been collecting Lincolns for decades and have seen many coins like this in 66 or 67 holders, the grade doesn't surprise me in the least even with the subpar images.
It’s good to know that you can be so certain in your assessment and opinion, even though more than 10 other posters (as in nearly everyone else who replied) think the coin deserved a lower grade than you do. You should start a one-man grading service.
I'm not sure what has your panties in such a wad here Mark, is it that your grade guess was far too low.
I never said I agree with the MS67 grade, only that I see both PCGS and NGC over grade coins (of all type and denomination) due to excellent luster and/or color while ignoring or discounting surface presentation. While I came into this thread after the reveal, I would have guessed MS66+ for the grade knowing how PCGS grades and what they value and discount when grading.
In a recent thread about grading a seated half you chastised members of the forum who guessed lower than AU
Maybe you should apply your own words to yourself as your MS63RD grade was far too strict.
No panties in a wad, here, but rather, more than mild surprise at your below comment and attitude, despite the overwhelming disagreement with your assessment. I’m often confident in posting minimum or maximum grade guesses/estimates. But I don’t remember being so to the extent of saying “without question…”. And if nearly everyone disagreed with me, I’d at least question my own assessment and wonder where I might have gone wrong.
“The coin in the op is without question MS66+ in today's market grading so MS67 is not that much of a stretch. A case where the excellent luster carried the load just as some toning gives a grade bump.”
Thankfully I have confidence in my area, Lincolns, not to be shaken by some random guesses on a coin forum from people that have never seen the coin in hand. And my confidence is rewarded as all those guesses; including yours; were way wrong.
You’ve been posting as if you guessed the (approximate) grade of the coin before it was posted. Did you, in fact, do that? I looked and didn’t see any such post. I only see your posts trying to justify the assigned grade, after it was revealed.
I’m fine being “way wrong”, along with other random guesses (based on subpar images) - I was in some very good company, even if we might not be nearly as full/sure of ourselves as you sound.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@coinbuf said:
The coin in the op is without question MS66+ in today's market grading world so MS67 is not that much of a stretch. A case where the excellent luster carried the load just as some toning gives a grade bump.
The coin might be MS66+ “without question” to you. But to a number of us, that’s far from the case. The images (which granted, might be highly misleading) make it appear that the coin’s obverse is peppered with conspicuous contact marks. And excellent luster can’t even begin to compensate for that.
I'm sorry but you are not correct, in today's market grading driven grading room luster and color overcome subpar surfaces quite often. I don't agree with greadflation (no that is not a typo) and it shouldn't be that way but it is. I've been collecting Lincolns for decades and have seen many coins like this in 66 or 67 holders, the grade doesn't surprise me in the least even with the subpar images.
It’s good to know that you can be so certain in your assessment and opinion, even though more than 10 other posters (as in nearly everyone else who replied) think the coin deserved a lower grade than you do. You should start a one-man grading service.
I'm not sure what has your panties in such a wad here Mark, is it that your grade guess was far too low.
I never said I agree with the MS67 grade, only that I see both PCGS and NGC over grade coins (of all type and denomination) due to excellent luster and/or color while ignoring or discounting surface presentation. While I came into this thread after the reveal, I would have guessed MS66+ for the grade knowing how PCGS grades and what they value and discount when grading.
In a recent thread about grading a seated half you chastised members of the forum who guessed lower than AU
Maybe you should apply your own words to yourself as your MS63RD grade was far too strict.
No panties in a wad, here, but rather, more than mild surprise at your below comment and attitude, despite the overwhelming disagreement with your assessment. I’m often confident in posting minimum or maximum grade guesses/estimates. But I don’t remember being so to the extent of saying “without question…”. And if nearly everyone disagreed with me, I’d at least question my own assessment and wonder where I might have gone wrong.
“The coin in the op is without question MS66+ in today's market grading so MS67 is not that much of a stretch. A case where the excellent luster carried the load just as some toning gives a grade bump.”
Thankfully I have confidence in my area, Lincolns, not to be shaken by some random guesses on a coin forum from people that have never seen the coin in hand. And my confidence is rewarded as all those guesses; including yours; were way wrong.
You’ve been posting as if you guessed the (approximate) grade of the coin before it was posted. Did you, in fact, do that? I looked and didn’t see any such post. I only see your posts trying to justify the assigned grade, after it was revealed.
I’m fine being “way wrong”, along with other random guesses (based on subpar images) - I was in some very good company, even if we might not be nearly as full/sure of ourselves as you sound.
It seems that you are trying to justify how wrong your guess was Mark, I'm afraid I cannot help you with that, you will have to find a way to deal with it on your own.
@coinbuf said:
The coin in the op is without question MS66+ in today's market grading world so MS67 is not that much of a stretch. A case where the excellent luster carried the load just as some toning gives a grade bump.
The coin might be MS66+ “without question” to you. But to a number of us, that’s far from the case. The images (which granted, might be highly misleading) make it appear that the coin’s obverse is peppered with conspicuous contact marks. And excellent luster can’t even begin to compensate for that.
I'm sorry but you are not correct, in today's market grading driven grading room luster and color overcome subpar surfaces quite often. I don't agree with greadflation (no that is not a typo) and it shouldn't be that way but it is. I've been collecting Lincolns for decades and have seen many coins like this in 66 or 67 holders, the grade doesn't surprise me in the least even with the subpar images.
It’s good to know that you can be so certain in your assessment and opinion, even though more than 10 other posters (as in nearly everyone else who replied) think the coin deserved a lower grade than you do. You should start a one-man grading service.
I'm not sure what has your panties in such a wad here Mark, is it that your grade guess was far too low.
I never said I agree with the MS67 grade, only that I see both PCGS and NGC over grade coins (of all type and denomination) due to excellent luster and/or color while ignoring or discounting surface presentation. While I came into this thread after the reveal, I would have guessed MS66+ for the grade knowing how PCGS grades and what they value and discount when grading.
In a recent thread about grading a seated half you chastised members of the forum who guessed lower than AU
Maybe you should apply your own words to yourself as your MS63RD grade was far too strict.
No panties in a wad, here, but rather, more than mild surprise at your below comment and attitude, despite the overwhelming disagreement with your assessment. I’m often confident in posting minimum or maximum grade guesses/estimates. But I don’t remember being so to the extent of saying “without question…”. And if nearly everyone disagreed with me, I’d at least question my own assessment and wonder where I might have gone wrong.
“The coin in the op is without question MS66+ in today's market grading so MS67 is not that much of a stretch. A case where the excellent luster carried the load just as some toning gives a grade bump.”
Thankfully I have confidence in my area, Lincolns, not to be shaken by some random guesses on a coin forum from people that have never seen the coin in hand. And my confidence is rewarded as all those guesses; including yours; were way wrong.
You’ve been posting as if you guessed the (approximate) grade of the coin before it was posted. Did you, in fact, do that? I looked and didn’t see any such post. I only see your posts trying to justify the assigned grade, after it was revealed.
I’m fine being “way wrong”, along with other random guesses (based on subpar images) - I was in some very good company, even if we might not be nearly as full/sure of ourselves as you sound.
It seems that you are trying to justify how wrong your guess was Mark, I'm afraid I cannot help you with that, you will have to find a way to deal with it on your own.
I take your above post as confirmation that you never did guess the grade before it was posted. But that sure hasn’t stopped you from talking up your own grading abilities. 😉
Please don’t worry too much about me. If I feel that I need help, I’d be looking elsewhere, anyway.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@MFeld said:
No panties in a wad, here, but rather, more than mild surprise at your below comment and attitude, despite the overwhelming disagreement with your assessment.
Not sure there was “overwhelming disagreement”. In fact, the 2nd guess was 66RD, and the third was 65RD (which I hit the “agree” button to immediately). So the first 50-75% of guesses identified the coin as a gem. Consider also that your much lower guess may have swayed those that followed, as people weight your opinion highly.
@coinbuf said:
The coin in the op is without question MS66+ in today's market grading world so MS67 is not that much of a stretch. A case where the excellent luster carried the load just as some toning gives a grade bump.
The coin might be MS66+ “without question” to you. But to a number of us, that’s far from the case. The images (which granted, might be highly misleading) make it appear that the coin’s obverse is peppered with conspicuous contact marks. And excellent luster can’t even begin to compensate for that.
I'm sorry but you are not correct, in today's market grading driven grading room luster and color overcome subpar surfaces quite often. I don't agree with greadflation (no that is not a typo) and it shouldn't be that way but it is. I've been collecting Lincolns for decades and have seen many coins like this in 66 or 67 holders, the grade doesn't surprise me in the least even with the subpar images.
It’s good to know that you can be so certain in your assessment and opinion, even though more than 10 other posters (as in nearly everyone else who replied) think the coin deserved a lower grade than you do. You should start a one-man grading service.
I'm not sure what has your panties in such a wad here Mark, is it that your grade guess was far too low.
I never said I agree with the MS67 grade, only that I see both PCGS and NGC over grade coins (of all type and denomination) due to excellent luster and/or color while ignoring or discounting surface presentation. While I came into this thread after the reveal, I would have guessed MS66+ for the grade knowing how PCGS grades and what they value and discount when grading.
In a recent thread about grading a seated half you chastised members of the forum who guessed lower than AU
Maybe you should apply your own words to yourself as your MS63RD grade was far too strict.
No panties in a wad, here, but rather, more than mild surprise at your below comment and attitude, despite the overwhelming disagreement with your assessment. I’m often confident in posting minimum or maximum grade guesses/estimates. But I don’t remember being so to the extent of saying “without question…”. And if nearly everyone disagreed with me, I’d at least question my own assessment and wonder where I might have gone wrong.
“The coin in the op is without question MS66+ in today's market grading so MS67 is not that much of a stretch. A case where the excellent luster carried the load just as some toning gives a grade bump.”
Thankfully I have confidence in my area, Lincolns, not to be shaken by some random guesses on a coin forum from people that have never seen the coin in hand. And my confidence is rewarded as all those guesses; including yours; were way wrong.
You’ve been posting as if you guessed the (approximate) grade of the coin before it was posted. Did you, in fact, do that? I looked and didn’t see any such post. I only see your posts trying to justify the assigned grade, after it was revealed.
I’m fine being “way wrong”, along with other random guesses (based on subpar images) - I was in some very good company, even if we might not be nearly as full/sure of ourselves as you sound.
It seems that you are trying to justify how wrong your guess was Mark, I'm afraid I cannot help you with that, you will have to find a way to deal with it on your own.
I take your above post as confirmation that you never did guess the grade before it was posted. But that sure hasn’t stopped you from talking up your own grading abilities. 😉
Please don’t worry too much about me. If I feel that I need help, I’d be looking elsewhere, anyway.
No doubt, your way wrong guess shows you would turn away from anyone that has correct information.
I haven't seen the reveal yet so I'm starting at the top. I collect Red Lincolns, so I'll make a fool of myself. Previously I agreed with the member above who posted 65 Red by a TPGS. My grade is more in line with this member. That coin should grade no higher than MS-64. I think MS-63 is a little low for a present-day commercial grade. Now back to page one.
@TomB said:
I"m confused with why the ebay listing is being conflated with the coin in the OP. However, I think I might regret asking what the backstory is, so if no one wants to explain it to me then we are all good.
@blitzdude said:
So we have a grade reveal. What was the interesting question for us to answer after? RGDS!
Probably something along the lines of, "Ok, now that you've seen how poorly some other "MS67" Lincolns look, who wants to form a line on the left to purchase my stellar untra GEM that I posted here at $499.?!"
@Walkerlover said:
Nope I am not the buyer. The question than is how did this coin pass CAC as a MS 67? Coin seems to have fair amount of chatter in the right obverse field. My guess would have been 65. But of course maybe in hand the contact marks are small and barely noticeable.
So what is the point then, to draw attention to the coin you have for sale?
Perhaps the points of this discussion are:
Don't buy coins from images.
Buy the coin and not the label.
That me and some knowledgeable members have NO CLUE what's going on with the coin grading in America.
Put away your 5X magnifier and use your eyes alone for less than 10 seconds if you wish to grade for the market. 5. Bulk grading sucks.
I'm not going to read or post further here as the OP was right - wait for the shock. I wish the ending was not given away by one member. This would have been a fun thread to make a fool of myself.
@MFeld said:
No panties in a wad, here, but rather, more than mild surprise at your below comment and attitude, despite the overwhelming disagreement with your assessment.
Not sure there was “overwhelming disagreement”. In fact, the 2nd guess was 66RD, and the third was 65RD (which I hit the “agree” button to immediately). So the first 50-75% of guesses identified the coin as a gem. Consider also that your much lower guess may have swayed those that followed, as people weight your opinion highly.
Maybe you’re confusing “overwhelming” with “unanimous”. Because, based on the grade guesses prior to the reveal - see below - and comments posted afterwards, you should be sure that there was “overwhelming disagreement” with an assessment of “without question 66+” for a coin that was graded 67. Grade guesses of 66, 65, “Gem” and below don’t constitute agreement.
Grade guesses:
58
66
65
63
63
64 (“limit”)
63
“not close to a 67”
64
62
After posting of assigned grade before
65
Coinbuf “without question 66+ in today’s market grading world…”
63 or 64
66 (from same poster who guessed 66 before grade was posted, as well)
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@TomB said:
I"m confused with why the ebay listing is being conflated with the coin in the OP. However, I think I might regret asking what the backstory is, so if no one wants to explain it to me then we are all good.
Ike is being Ike and screwing up a discussion??
Funny that you speak of screwing up a discussion when you are replying in sequence to older posts that everyone else in the discussion has already long moved past.
Most people coming late to a discussion would simply read all of the previous posts and get up to speed before commenting, but you do you.
@MFeld said:
No panties in a wad, here, but rather, more than mild surprise at your below comment and attitude, despite the overwhelming disagreement with your assessment.
Not sure there was “overwhelming disagreement”. In fact, the 2nd guess was 66RD, and the third was 65RD (which I hit the “agree” button to immediately). So the first 50-75% of guesses identified the coin as a gem. Consider also that your much lower guess may have swayed those that followed, as people weight your opinion highly.
Maybe you’re confusing “overwhelming” with “unanimous”. Because, based on the grade guesses prior to the reveal - see below - and comments posted afterwards, you should be sure that there was “overwhelming disagreement” with an assessment of “without question 66+” for a coin that was graded 67. Grade guesses of 66, 65, “Gem” and below don’t constitute agreement.
Grade guesses:
58
66
65
63
63
64 (“limit”)
63
“not close to a 67”
64
62
After posting of assigned grade before
65
Coinbuf “without question 66+ in today’s market grading world…”
63 or 64
66 (from same poster who guessed 66 before grade was posted, as well)
Lol. Thank you for the tally. Agreement is relative. There were several guesses that were more in agreement with 66+ than yours. And like I said, your much lower (and much more wrong) guess may have influenced the ones after you. Had you guessed 66, which would have been a much more correct guess, the ones following may have been higher too.
@TomB said:
I"m confused with why the ebay listing is being conflated with the coin in the OP. However, I think I might regret asking what the backstory is, so if no one wants to explain it to me then we are all good.
Ike is being Ike and screwing up a discussion??
Funny that you speak of screwing up a discussion when you are replying in sequence to older posts that everyone else in the discussion has already long moved past.
Most people coming late to a discussion would simply read all of the previous posts and get up to speed before commenting, but you do you.
What's funny to me is that SOMEONE COMING LATE TO THE PARTY (me) should not wish to read the thread first SO THAT HIS/HER COMMENTS would be original thoughts and not influenced by the "Experts" such as yourself. As I wrote, it is too bad you messed up the thread for me - again.
PS Ikie, I'm not "most people." BTW, Ikei, did you ever bother to GTG for yourself before you thought to find out what it was graded and ruin the thread for me? Now that would be really funny. Oops, ROTFL.
@MFeld said:
No panties in a wad, here, but rather, more than mild surprise at your below comment and attitude, despite the overwhelming disagreement with your assessment.
Not sure there was “overwhelming disagreement”. In fact, the 2nd guess was 66RD, and the third was 65RD (which I hit the “agree” button to immediately). So the first 50-75% of guesses identified the coin as a gem. Consider also that your much lower guess may have swayed those that followed, as people weight your opinion highly.
Maybe you’re confusing “overwhelming” with “unanimous”. Because, based on the grade guesses prior to the reveal - see below - and comments posted afterwards, you should be sure that there was “overwhelming disagreement” with an assessment of “without question 66+” for a coin that was graded 67. Grade guesses of 66, 65, “Gem” and below don’t constitute agreement.
Grade guesses:
58
66
65
63
63
64 (“limit”)
63
“not close to a 67”
64
62
After posting of assigned grade before
65
Coinbuf “without question 66+ in today’s market grading world…”
63 or 64
66 (from same poster who guessed 66 before grade was posted, as well)
Lol. Thank you for the tally. Agreement is relative. There were several guesses that were more in agreement with 66+ than yours. And like I said, your much lower (and much more wrong) guess may have influenced the ones after you. Had you guessed 66, which would have been a much more correct guess, the ones following may have been higher too.
You’re welcome.😉 For the record, I count 10 grade guesses prior to the reveal. One of them was “not close to a 67”, so I’ll omit it, along with mine. Of the remaining 8 guesses, 6 were closer to 63 than to 66+. So I don’t know where you came up with “There were several guesses that were more in agreement with 66+ than yours”.
If you’d like to speculate that my grade guess skewed the results, so be it.
I’m done with this thread, now, as I need to go try to learn how to grade Lincoln cents.😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@P0CKETCHANGE said:
Lol. Thank you for the tally. Agreement is relative. There were several guesses that were more in agreement with 66+ than yours. And like I said, your much lower (and much more wrong) guess may have influenced the ones after you. Had you guessed 66, which would have been a much more correct guess, the ones following may have been higher too.
And that Ikie is one of the best reasons I don't read the thread first and comment on one post at a time so there is no confusion. I've found that on every forum there are many levels of English comprehension. Why add to it?
@4Redisin said: @P0CKETCHANGE said:
Lol. Thank you for the tally. Agreement is relative. There were several guesses that were more in agreement with 66+ than yours. And like I said, your much lower (and much more wrong) guess may have influenced the ones after you. Had you guessed 66, which would have been a much more correct guess, the ones following may have been higher too.
And that Ikie is one of the best reasons I don't read the thread first and comment on one post at a time so there is no confusion. I've found that on every forum there are many levels of English comprehension. Why add to it?
No worries there - you definitely didn't add to the comprehension.
Now I understand where the "4" in "4Redisin" comes from...you screw up every discussion in at least 4 different ways!
@MFeld said:
No panties in a wad, here, but rather, more than mild surprise at your below comment and attitude, despite the overwhelming disagreement with your assessment.
Not sure there was “overwhelming disagreement”. In fact, the 2nd guess was 66RD, and the third was 65RD (which I hit the “agree” button to immediately). So the first 50-75% of guesses identified the coin as a gem. Consider also that your much lower guess may have swayed those that followed, as people weight your opinion highly.
Maybe you’re confusing “overwhelming” with “unanimous”. Because, based on the grade guesses prior to the reveal - see below - and comments posted afterwards, you should be sure that there was “overwhelming disagreement” with an assessment of “without question 66+” for a coin that was graded 67. Grade guesses of 66, 65, “Gem” and below don’t constitute agreement.
Grade guesses:
58
66
65
63
63
64 (“limit”)
63
“not close to a 67”
64
62
After posting of assigned grade before
65
Coinbuf “without question 66+ in today’s market grading world…”
63 or 64
66 (from same poster who guessed 66 before grade was posted, as well)
Lol. Thank you for the tally. Agreement is relative. There were several guesses that were more in agreement with 66+ than yours. And like I said, your much lower (and much more wrong) guess may have influenced the ones after you. Had you guessed 66, which would have been a much more correct guess, the ones following may have been higher too.
You’re welcome.😉 For the record, I count 10 grade guesses prior to the reveal. One of them was “not close to a 67”, so I’ll omit it, along with mine. Of the remaining 8 guesses, 6 were closer to 63 than to 66+. So I don’t know where you came up with “There were several guesses that were more in agreement with 66+ than yours”.
If you’d like to speculate that my grade guess skewed the results, so be it.
I’m done with this thread, now, as I need to go try to learn how to grade Lincoln cents.😉
My guess came before I saw the MS-63 so I was not influenced, and I agreed with the member who guessed MS-65 was the TPGS grade. Shows me how much grading has changed for the knowledgeable members here and even the top professionals at CAC and PCGS! Eventually we will see a move to a 1-100 grading scale. All these beat up coins are getting closer to MS-70 (none) and MS-69 (2 miniscule?).
@4Redisin said: @P0CKETCHANGE said:
Lol. Thank you for the tally. Agreement is relative. There were several guesses that were more in agreement with 66+ than yours. And like I said, your much lower (and much more wrong) guess may have influenced the ones after you. Had you guessed 66, which would have been a much more correct guess, the ones following may have been higher too.
And that Ikie is one of the best reasons I don't read the thread first and comment on one post at a time so there is no confusion. I've found that on every forum there are many levels of English comprehension. Why add to it?
No worries there - you definitely didn't add to the comprehension.
Now I understand where the "4" in "4Redisin" comes from...you screw up every discussion in at least 4 different ways!
You have become one of my favorite members. Please keep up your work. BTW, did you ever try to GTG? You never replied.
This thread has gone exactly how it was intended. Bad images, guess the grade, coin for sale same grade that was “better” than this images posted, and being sold by the OP. Anger amongst good forum members was the point.
Now all we see is people sticking up for their opinions, many of which were right with the images given. It was a farce from the get go. OP knows and has acknowledged not to post active coins or coins he does not own for GTG.
Don’t feed into this, the OP loves this kind of disagreement and even when helped he cannot help himself to start threads like this. Let’s all just move on and get along!
New England Rarities...Dealer In Colonial Coinage and Americana
@blitzdude said:
So we have a grade reveal. What was the interesting question for us to answer after? RGDS!
Probably something along the lines of, "Ok, now that you've seen how poorly some other "MS67" Lincolns look, who wants to form a line on the left to purchase my stellar untra GEM that I posted here at $499.?!"
No the whole point was to get objective opinions on the coin without being influenced beforehand with the grade and the CAC approval. And THERE WAS NO TRICKERY INVOLVED WITH MY OWNERSHIP OF THE OTHER MS 67 OBH COIN. IKE T DID INDEED SCREW UP MY THREAD WITH HIS PARANOIA
Stop being funny. I thought everyone knew that ANACS was independent and started grading coins around 1979 making them the second grading service. PCGS was started in 1986 by coin dealers.
This thread has gone exactly how it was intended. Bad images, guess the grade, coin for sale same grade that was “better” than this images posted, and being sold by the OP. Anger amongst good forum members was the point.
Now all we see is people sticking up for their opinions, many of which were right with the images given. It was a farce from the get go. OP knows and has acknowledged not to post active coins or coins he does not own for GTG.
Don’t feed into this, the OP loves this kind of disagreement and even when helped he cannot help himself to start threads like this. Let’s all just move on and get along!
Dumb me, who exactly is angry? I am learning a lot from the back and forth. However. It is unfortunate that some here cannot read. Also, I'm new here and don't know anything about the OP's past record. Perhaps that is why I saw nothing wrong with his post.
Coin was listed for only $165 which is somewhat low for that 67 Red CAC penny suggesting that perhaps the owner felt the sticker was somewhat lucky and the eye appeal was maybe subpar. and he wanted to blow it out quickly on the Bay.
Stop being funny. I thought everyone knew that ANACS was independent and started grading coins around 1979 making them the second grading service. PCGS was started in 1986 by coin dealers.
EVERYONE knows that. That's why everyone doesn't constantly ask asinine questions and try to police every thread despite being "new" to the board....wait a sec...
I shouldn't joke, 4Red doesn't like it. So, seriously, how many alts have you had and what were they? Or are you just precociously obstinate?
This thread has gone exactly how it was intended. Bad images, guess the grade, coin for sale same grade that was “better” than this images posted, and being sold by the OP. Anger amongst good forum members was the point.
Now all we see is people sticking up for their opinions, many of which were right with the images given. It was a farce from the get go. OP knows and has acknowledged not to post active coins or coins he does not own for GTG.
Don’t feed into this, the OP loves this kind of disagreement and even when helped he cannot help himself to start threads like this. Let’s all just move on and get along!
This thread has gone exactly how it was intended. Bad images, guess the grade, coin for sale same grade that was “better” than this images posted, and being sold by the OP. Anger amongst good forum members was the point.
Now all we see is people sticking up for their opinions, many of which were right with the images given. It was a farce from the get go. OP knows and has acknowledged not to post active coins or coins he does not own for GTG.
Don’t feed into this, the OP loves this kind of disagreement and even when helped he cannot help himself to start threads like this. Let’s all just move on and get along!
Absolutely False Coin Was already Sold At $159 when I posted and I am tired of being misunderstood here. This was posted as a good faith GTG with absolutely no intention to promote my own coin, till Ike T posted it and ruined my thread. You cannot simply accept that fact but would rather bash an innocent poster. Your problem not mine
i did not think you were promoting your own coin. but sensed there was a comparison coming. though, admittedly, it did not necessarily have to be. in the past there were a number of gtg threads where the reveal was an over/under grade. just don't see the so much because the many of us already know this happens, thus there is nothing "big" for us in the reveal.
Stop being funny. I thought everyone knew that ANACS was independent and started grading coins around 1979 making them the second grading service. PCGS was started in 1986 by coin dealers.
EVERYONE knows that. That's why everyone doesn't constantly ask asinine questions and try to police every thread despite being "new" to the board....wait a sec...
I shouldn't joke, 4Red doesn't like it. So, seriously, how many alts have you had and what were they? Or are you just precociously obstinate?
You are another of my favorite posters. You have made me want to collect Trade dollars! I just don't understand the tag-team you have with your friend who admits to abusing members that don't know much. If you mean I'm policing the threads by standing up for personal bickering and accusations such as in your post, THEN I'm guilty. I truly wish both of you would block me if that exists on this forum. Then, I'll be out of your life.
Stop being funny. I thought everyone knew that ANACS was independent and started grading coins around 1979 making them the second grading service. PCGS was started in 1986 by coin dealers.
EVERYONE knows that. That's why everyone doesn't constantly ask asinine questions and try to police every thread despite being "new" to the board....wait a sec...
I shouldn't joke, 4Red doesn't like it. So, seriously, how many alts have you had and what were they? Or are you just precociously obstinate?
You are another of my favorite posters. You have made me want to collect Trade dollars! I just don't understand the tag-team you have with your friend who admits to abusing members that don't know much. If you mean I'm policing the threads by standing up for personal bickering and accusations such as in your post, THEN I'm guilty. I truly wish both of you would block me if that exists on this forum. Then, I'll be out of your life.
A block feature does indeed exist and you can feel free to use it however you like.
I wouldn't dare to block you...how else could I learn the customs, norms, and culture of this multi-decade old message board from someone who has been here for almost 2 months?
4Red really most likely is @Realone aka @Married2Coins . Not positive but there are a lot of similarities. Silver lining is that if it is, then 4Red does understand the culture of this forum...the culture of outing him as an alt. It's a time honored tradition.
@MsMorrisine said:
i did not think you were promoting your own coin. but sensed there was a comparison coming. though, admittedly, it did not necessarily have to be. in the past there were a number of gtg threads where the reveal was an over/under grade. just don't see the so much because the many of us already know this happens, thus there is nothing "big" for us in the reveal.
what was your interesting question?
Maybe it wasn’t that interesting. I thought forum members would indeed think the coin was around a 65 grade and the question is how did it get CAC approval as a MS 67 that’s all.
Stop being funny. I thought everyone knew that ANACS was independent and started grading coins around 1979 making them the second grading service. PCGS was started in 1986 by coin dealers.
EVERYONE knows that. That's why everyone doesn't constantly ask asinine questions and try to police every thread despite being "new" to the board....wait a sec...
I shouldn't joke, 4Red doesn't like it. So, seriously, how many alts have you had and what were they? Or are you just precociously obstinate?
You are another of my favorite posters. You have made me want to collect Trade dollars! I just don't understand the tag-team you have with your friend who admits to abusing members that don't know much. If you mean I'm policing the threads by standing up for personal bickering and accusations such as in your post, THEN I'm guilty. I truly wish both of you would block me if that exists on this forum. Then, I'll be out of your life.
A block feature does indeed exist and you can feel free to use it however you like.
I wouldn't dare to block you...how else could I learn the customs, norms, and culture of this multi-decade old message board from someone who has been here for almost 2 months?
4Red really most likely is @Realone aka @Married2Coins . Not positive but there are a lot of similarities. Silver lining is that if it is, then 4Red does understand the culture of this forum...the culture of outing him as an alt. It's a time honored tradition.
FYI, I've been on four other forms for over ten years. I stopped posting across the street a year ago. It's dead and this one is better because of the number of professionals WITH CLASS that post here. I've read this forum for about six years without joining because I'm considered to be an asset on the other forums and didn't have the time for another group. Now that I'm just retired from the military, I have the time. I'm an easy-going guy. Two weeks ago, one member here invited me to join his forum in a PM because none of these personal attacks and accusations go on over there. I told him I already belonged to that forum and had to agree there are some disrespectful members here.
I should not need to remind you and your ilk that this is a coin forum and making unfounded accusations or disrespectful comments that clutter up and redirect a discussion so that I become the "bad guy" and get run off is a cute trick that should not be tolerated. Any more comments about me will be ignored. So have a nice life and post something useful about Trade dollars for the forum.
Maybe it wasn’t that interesting. I thought forum members would indeed think the coin was around a 65 grade and the question is how did it get CAC approval as a MS 67 that’s all.
Easy. We on the forum have only suboptimal images to go on. Both PCGS and CAC had multiple graders view the coin in person.
Stop being funny. I thought everyone knew that ANACS was independent and started grading coins around 1979 making them the second grading service. PCGS was started in 1986 by coin dealers.
EVERYONE knows that. That's why everyone doesn't constantly ask asinine questions and try to police every thread despite being "new" to the board....wait a sec...
I shouldn't joke, 4Red doesn't like it. So, seriously, how many alts have you had and what were they? Or are you just precociously obstinate?
You are another of my favorite posters. You have made me want to collect Trade dollars! I just don't understand the tag-team you have with your friend who admits to abusing members that don't know much. If you mean I'm policing the threads by standing up for personal bickering and accusations such as in your post, THEN I'm guilty. I truly wish both of you would block me if that exists on this forum. Then, I'll be out of your life.
A block feature does indeed exist and you can feel free to use it however you like.
I wouldn't dare to block you...how else could I learn the customs, norms, and culture of this multi-decade old message board from someone who has been here for almost 2 months?
4Red really most likely is @Realone aka @Married2Coins . Not positive but there are a lot of similarities. Silver lining is that if it is, then 4Red does understand the culture of this forum...the culture of outing him as an alt. It's a time honored tradition.
FYI, I've been on four other forms for over ten years. I stopped posting across the street a year ago. It's dead and this one is better because of the number of professionals WITH CLASS that post here. I've read this forum for about six years without joining because I'm considered to be an asset on the other forums and didn't have the time for another group. Now that I'm just retired from the military, I have the time. I'm an easy-going guy. Two weeks ago, one member here invited me to join his forum in a PM because none of these personal attacks and accusations go on over there. I told him I already belonged to that forum and had to agree there are some disrespectful members here.
I should not need to remind you and your ilk that this is a coin forum and making unfounded accusations or disrespectful comments that clutter up and redirect a discussion so that I become the "bad guy" and get run off is a cute trick that should not be tolerated. Any more comments about me will be ignored. So have a nice life and post something useful about Trade dollars for the forum.
My ilk and I will often route out alts or people posting in bad faith. Sorry that you have now blocked me and won't see this reply but for all of the others...our suspicions are NOT unfounded. They are well founded indeed.
@coinbuf —Limited expression fails the intention to one-up MFeld. He aspires to more than to parrot facts, he teaches. The winning stroke lies in that he can make a mistake, and that you cannot.
Imagine it as the “razor vs. yo-yo theory”.
Comments
Still likely a 66RD to me after the reveal. It doesn’t really matter to me what opinions the TPGs or CAC have.
Thankfully I have confidence in my area, Lincolns, not to be shaken by some random guesses on a coin forum from people that have never seen the coin in hand. And my confidence is rewarded as all those guesses; including yours; were way wrong.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
You’ve been posting as if you guessed the (approximate) grade of the coin before it was posted. Did you, in fact, do that? I looked and didn’t see any such post. I only see your posts trying to justify the assigned grade, after it was revealed.
I’m fine being “way wrong”, along with other random guesses (based on subpar images) - I was in some very good company, even if we might not be nearly as full/sure of ourselves as you sound.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
It seems that you are trying to justify how wrong your guess was Mark, I'm afraid I cannot help you with that, you will have to find a way to deal with it on your own.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I take your above post as confirmation that you never did guess the grade before it was posted. But that sure hasn’t stopped you from talking up your own grading abilities. 😉
Please don’t worry too much about me. If I feel that I need help, I’d be looking elsewhere, anyway.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Not sure there was “overwhelming disagreement”. In fact, the 2nd guess was 66RD, and the third was 65RD (which I hit the “agree” button to immediately). So the first 50-75% of guesses identified the coin as a gem. Consider also that your much lower guess may have swayed those that followed, as people weight your opinion highly.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
No doubt, your way wrong guess shows you would turn away from anyone that has correct information.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I haven't seen the reveal yet so I'm starting at the top. I collect Red Lincolns, so I'll make a fool of myself. Previously I agreed with the member above who posted 65 Red by a TPGS. My grade is more in line with this member. That coin should grade no higher than MS-64. I think MS-63 is a little low for a present-day commercial grade. Now back to page one.
Makes the coin look worse.
Ike, is that the same coin?
Ike is being Ike and screwing up a discussion??
Probably something along the lines of, "Ok, now that you've seen how poorly some other "MS67" Lincolns look, who wants to form a line on the left to purchase my stellar untra GEM that I posted here at $499.?!"
Crack and submit it to CAC and watch it come back details!
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
Perhaps the points of this discussion are:
I'm not going to read or post further here as the OP was right - wait for the shock. I wish the ending was not given away by one member. This would have been a fun thread to make a fool of myself.
Maybe you’re confusing “overwhelming” with “unanimous”. Because, based on the grade guesses prior to the reveal - see below - and comments posted afterwards, you should be sure that there was “overwhelming disagreement” with an assessment of “without question 66+” for a coin that was graded 67. Grade guesses of 66, 65, “Gem” and below don’t constitute agreement.
Grade guesses:
58
66
65
63
63
64 (“limit”)
63
“not close to a 67”
64
62
After posting of assigned grade before
65
Coinbuf “without question 66+ in today’s market grading world…”
63 or 64
66 (from same poster who guessed 66 before grade was posted, as well)
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Funny that you speak of screwing up a discussion when you are replying in sequence to older posts that everyone else in the discussion has already long moved past.
Most people coming late to a discussion would simply read all of the previous posts and get up to speed before commenting, but you do you.
Lol. Thank you for the tally. Agreement is relative. There were several guesses that were more in agreement with 66+ than yours. And like I said, your much lower (and much more wrong) guess may have influenced the ones after you. Had you guessed 66, which would have been a much more correct guess, the ones following may have been higher too.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
Makes the coin look worse.> @IkesT said:
What's funny to me is that SOMEONE COMING LATE TO THE PARTY (me) should not wish to read the thread first SO THAT HIS/HER COMMENTS would be original thoughts and not influenced by the "Experts" such as yourself. As I wrote, it is too bad you messed up the thread for me - again.
PS Ikie, I'm not "most people." BTW, Ikei, did you ever bother to GTG for yourself before you thought to find out what it was graded and ruin the thread for me? Now that would be really funny. Oops, ROTFL.
You’re welcome.😉 For the record, I count 10 grade guesses prior to the reveal. One of them was “not close to a 67”, so I’ll omit it, along with mine. Of the remaining 8 guesses, 6 were closer to 63 than to 66+. So I don’t know where you came up with “There were several guesses that were more in agreement with 66+ than yours”.
If you’d like to speculate that my grade guess skewed the results, so be it.
I’m done with this thread, now, as I need to go try to learn how to grade Lincoln cents.😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Doing my part to help out a dealer/member in need.
the 60 looks better than a 60
That’s a largely useless and inaccurate guide.
@P0CKETCHANGE said:
Lol. Thank you for the tally. Agreement is relative. There were several guesses that were more in agreement with 66+ than yours. And like I said, your much lower (and much more wrong) guess may have influenced the ones after you. Had you guessed 66, which would have been a much more correct guess, the ones following may have been higher too.
And that Ikie is one of the best reasons I don't read the thread first and comment on one post at a time so there is no confusion. I've found that on every forum there are many levels of English comprehension. Why add to it?
No worries there - you definitely didn't add to the comprehension.
Now I understand where the "4" in "4Redisin" comes from...you screw up every discussion in at least 4 different ways!
My guess came before I saw the MS-63 so I was not influenced, and I agreed with the member who guessed MS-65 was the TPGS grade. Shows me how much grading has changed for the knowledgeable members here and even the top professionals at CAC and PCGS! Eventually we will see a move to a 1-100 grading scale. All these beat up coins are getting closer to MS-70 (none) and MS-69 (2 miniscule?).
You have become one of my favorite members. Please keep up your work. BTW, did you ever try to GTG? You never replied.
I guess that depends on how long you have been collecting before 1986 when the coin dealers started their own TPGS's.
Since we’re not in 1985 anymore, it’s largely useless and inaccurate.
anacs was started by dealers?
ikesT early on posted the link to the ebay auction the op photos were from
before that, the op's own listing was posted as 67cac
expecting some catch involving 67cac, i said not close to 67
what influenced me was the 67 grade on the OP's own ebay listing
.
.
.
auction the op photos were from
Everyone,
This thread has gone exactly how it was intended. Bad images, guess the grade, coin for sale same grade that was “better” than this images posted, and being sold by the OP. Anger amongst good forum members was the point.
Now all we see is people sticking up for their opinions, many of which were right with the images given. It was a farce from the get go. OP knows and has acknowledged not to post active coins or coins he does not own for GTG.
Don’t feed into this, the OP loves this kind of disagreement and even when helped he cannot help himself to start threads like this. Let’s all just move on and get along!
It does not look like a 67 or 66
but there's the photos. something on the slab?
so. another interesting question: there's this and one other thread with an "overgraded cac" -- are you going to stop buying cac coins?
No the whole point was to get objective opinions on the coin without being influenced beforehand with the grade and the CAC approval. And THERE WAS NO TRICKERY INVOLVED WITH MY OWNERSHIP OF THE OTHER MS 67 OBH COIN. IKE T DID INDEED SCREW UP MY THREAD WITH HIS PARANOIA
So, in your opinion, which specific coins in the chart are not accurate for the grade they represent?
are you looking at other 67cac's on a regular basis?
Stop being funny. I thought everyone knew that ANACS was independent and started grading coins around 1979 making them the second grading service. PCGS was started in 1986 by coin dealers.
Dumb me, who exactly is angry? I am learning a lot from the back and forth. However. It is unfortunate that some here cannot read. Also, I'm new here and don't know anything about the OP's past record. Perhaps that is why I saw nothing wrong with his post.
Coin was listed for only $165 which is somewhat low for that 67 Red CAC penny suggesting that perhaps the owner felt the sticker was somewhat lucky and the eye appeal was maybe subpar. and he wanted to blow it out quickly on the Bay.
Yeah @MsMorrisine ! Or he shall report you, like @IkesT !
EVERYONE knows that. That's why everyone doesn't constantly ask asinine questions and try to police every thread despite being "new" to the board....wait a sec...
I shouldn't joke, 4Red doesn't like it. So, seriously, how many alts have you had and what were they? Or are you just precociously obstinate?
Not active was sold at $165
Absolutely False Coin Was already Sold At $159 when I posted and I am tired of being misunderstood here. This was posted as a good faith GTG with absolutely no intention to promote my own coin, till Ike T posted it and ruined my thread. You cannot simply accept that fact but would rather bash an innocent poster. Your problem not mine
The value may go up now that the US Treasury will stop making them.
i did not think you were promoting your own coin. but sensed there was a comparison coming. though, admittedly, it did not necessarily have to be. in the past there were a number of gtg threads where the reveal was an over/under grade. just don't see the so much because the many of us already know this happens, thus there is nothing "big" for us in the reveal.
what was your interesting question?
You are another of my favorite posters. You have made me want to collect Trade dollars! I just don't understand the tag-team you have with your friend who admits to abusing members that don't know much. If you mean I'm policing the threads by standing up for personal bickering and accusations such as in your post, THEN I'm guilty. I truly wish both of you would block me if that exists on this forum. Then, I'll be out of your life.
A block feature does indeed exist and you can feel free to use it however you like.
I wouldn't dare to block you...how else could I learn the customs, norms, and culture of this multi-decade old message board from someone who has been here for almost 2 months?
4Red really most likely is @Realone aka @Married2Coins . Not positive but there are a lot of similarities. Silver lining is that if it is, then 4Red does understand the culture of this forum...the culture of outing him as an alt. It's a time honored tradition.
Coin Photographer.
Maybe it wasn’t that interesting. I thought forum members would indeed think the coin was around a 65 grade and the question is how did it get CAC approval as a MS 67 that’s all.
FYI, I've been on four other forms for over ten years. I stopped posting across the street a year ago. It's dead and this one is better because of the number of professionals WITH CLASS that post here. I've read this forum for about six years without joining because I'm considered to be an asset on the other forums and didn't have the time for another group. Now that I'm just retired from the military, I have the time. I'm an easy-going guy. Two weeks ago, one member here invited me to join his forum in a PM because none of these personal attacks and accusations go on over there. I told him I already belonged to that forum and had to agree there are some disrespectful members here.
I should not need to remind you and your ilk that this is a coin forum and making unfounded accusations or disrespectful comments that clutter up and redirect a discussion so that I become the "bad guy" and get run off is a cute trick that should not be tolerated. Any more comments about me will be ignored. So have a nice life and post something useful about Trade dollars for the forum.
Easy. We on the forum have only suboptimal images to go on. Both PCGS and CAC had multiple graders view the coin in person.
My ilk and I will often route out alts or people posting in bad faith. Sorry that you have now blocked me and won't see this reply but for all of the others...our suspicions are NOT unfounded. They are well founded indeed.
@coinbuf —Limited expression fails the intention to one-up MFeld. He aspires to more than to parrot facts, he teaches. The winning stroke lies in that he can make a mistake, and that you cannot.
Imagine it as the “razor vs. yo-yo theory”.