Question for all that used PCGS from 1986 to 1998

asheland

Couple of things I’ve always wondered about, and I know for sure that some of you guys would know the answers to this…

Any of you that submitted coins to PCGS from the very beginning 1986 until 1998 basically covering the era of rattlers through the green holders….

The main thing I wondered is, I know the Internet was in its infancy back then, I started using the Internet around the time I graduated high school in 1995.

The Internet was a lot different back then, I don’t recall being able to really check anything or open any kind of an account or anything like today, basically websites, the way I remember it, we’re just information. You might have a link, but it would just take you to a page telling you about something and have a few pictures, but that was about it, at least as far as I recall…

So, during that period, how did you do a CERT verification? I highly doubt that PCGS had that on their website back then….

Was there a way to verify? Or did you just not do that? Was that just an internal in-house thing at PCGS back then?

And does anybody know when PCGS first launched their website? And does anybody know when the CERT verification was first available?

I don’t know why, but I’m fascinated by this stuff. I’ve always found the early period of PCGS from 1986 through 1998 to be kind of an interesting time…

During that period, in 1986, I was only 10 years old. I was messing with coins, but I was just a kid messing with some 90% maybe a few Indian head pennies… nothing serious back then, and by the 90s I was in high school and messing with coins still somewhat, but nothing serious…

Most of my numismatic experience and serious study started in 2007, right around the time I joined these forums….

When I see the green holders and rattlers, it really brings back the nostalgic memories from that period when I was in school and messing with coins…

My first coin in a slab was a buffalo nickel in a green holder, that was around 1994 or five, I don’t remember I think it was a 38D or something like that in that MS64 to 65 range, I remember it was cheap somewhat, 20 bucks or something… It’s long gone now, I can’t put words to how bad I wish I still had that one!

Am I correct that in the beginning, it was only dealers that could submit coins to PCGS? I do know that back then if the coin was cleaned or had problems that it was body bagged, there was no genuine holders, so anything from the green holder era is straight graded…

I’m sure quite a few of you were doing this as a dealer back during that period. I’d love to hear anything you can tell me about that time…

And for anybody else reading this, your opinions are very welcome and if nothing else, just post a picture of one of your green holders or rattlers, anything prior to 1998 basically.

I also love to see the old books and boxes from PCGS, the Rattler boxes, the green boxes, the old booklets that were population reports that stuff to me is so damn cool!

Fred Weinberg once sent me a package with a bunch of the vintage stuff from the period and I love having that! Fred, if you’re reading this, thank you again for that!

I’ll post my favorite coin that I currently own in a green holder to start this off…

I look forward to the discussions!

jfriedm56

@asheland, as far as I can remember, I would have my local B&M dealer send my coins in for me, as I don’t think I was able to send them in on my own. I believe it had to go through an authorized dealer to pre- screen your coins. And I do not believe or I was unaware at the time if there ever was a verification process. I don’t think there was, because at the time there wasn’t an overall threat of fake coins in fake holders. I could be wrong, but that’s what I remember from 35 years ago.Hope that helps a little.

asheland

@jfriedm56 Thank you! That does sound correct.

I know earlier on there were some fake slabs because the rattlers were having fakes. I read somewhere, and that’s when they started to add the hologram, etc., I just find that stuff so fascinating!

Thanks for your post!

asheland

@jfriedm56 I was wondering, is that one of the ones you sent way back then? The pictured slab?

TomB

Interesting thread topic and gorgeous half-cent!

I was actively in the industry during that time period, but to pin down the "when" of how things worked is a bit more difficult. At least in the last half of your 1986-1998 timeframe PCGS was open for submissions from the general public. I believe it was 1995 when the crossover service began and I seem to remember PCGS giving out coupons for five free crossovers for every submission to them. That offering brought in quite a few coins and I submitted many Indian quarter and half eagles from early NGC holders. All of them crossed and most crossed to a higher grade. I also sent in an ANACS 1916 MS65FB Merc, which I couldn't sell to same my life, and that crossed at grade. It turned the coin from something without much liquidity at $500 on my table into a coin I immediately sold for $600. Please don't ask me why I remember that one detail!

In 1997 PCGS published what I consider one of the finest numismatic books of all time. It was the first edition of their Coin Grading and Counterfeit Detection, which was a full format publication printed on heavy, glossy stock paper with full color illustrations throughout. It was over 300-pages and, again if I recall correctly, had a page in the back with a coupon you could cut out that was worth one free grading submission. I think later editions of the book might have been printed on cheaper, thinner paper and in a smaller format and might also be lacking all the color images. Buy the first edition! However, if you get one, don't expect the coupon to still be valid.

During this time period (1995-1998) PCGS also briefly teamed up with ebay and you could print coupons out from ebay that gave a 10% or 15% discount on all PCGS submissions. I know I first joined the initial iteration of what became our PCGS coin boards in perhaps 1998. You can find information about those all over these boards in various threads, but what PCGS also had on the site at the time were features called something like "The PCGS Top 40" that was a listing of the forty most commonly graded coins (issue and grade) published on a weekly basis similar to how record companies used to publish a Top 40 Hit Parade. I think the PCGS version was modeled after that. Again, if I recall correctly, PCGS also hosted online auctions for a very brief period of time and these might have featured coins in PCGS holders from authorized dealers. This was at the same time as Teletrade was dominating internet coin auctions. Another auction company went live on the internet at that time was Numismatists Online and, again, I think it was a small number of authorized dealers who sold PCGS coins. They folded pretty quickly, but I did a lot of business with them and their platform was great. As mentioned, the coin forum would have been at the tail end of your timeframe.

I don't recall being able to check the status of my submissions during this period, but you could access an online price guide and population guide, as well. I'm certain there are many other nuggets, but these are all simply remembered things and none of is is written down in notes.

TomB

As per everything being straight-graded by PCGS, which might be technically true in the sense that there were no "cleaned" or "genuine" holders, there was nonetheless intense net grading.

One of the first coins I ever submitted to PCGS was a 1927-S SLQ in VF30 that had been baking soda cleaned, had an off-white look to it that was completely unnatural and had also been cleaned a bit too harshly and abrasively. PCGS returned it to me in a VF20 holder, which to many folks today would look like an undergraded, gold CAC example, but in reality was like simply putting lipstick on a pig. Today that coin would be labeled "cleaned" nine times out of nine.

Also, there was no online verification process and I don't recall any clamoring for it, either.

asheland

@TomB thank you so much! That is exactly the type of response I was hoping for! So dang interesting!

I do recall, from time to time, seeing green holders with coins that were undoubtedly cleaned, and net graded like you say, you see them from time to time and as they say, those coins are basically in their tombs.

TomB

"those coins are basically in their tombs"

Every time I read something like that my mind reads it as-

"those coins are basically in their TomB's"

Yikes!

lilolme

Here is an article on PCGS through the years.
States PCGS.com in 1996
Colledtors club 1997 (collectors could submit directly)
Coinfacts 1999
Online registry 2001
(I think the registry book was initially 1998 - I have the 1999 and I think I recall someone with the 1998 in prior thread post).

https://www.pcgs.com/news/pcgs-35-years-on

jfriedm56

@asheland said:
@jfriedm56 I was wondering, is that one of the ones you sent way back then? The pictured slab?

Yes Terry. that coin was sent in through a dealer in about 1990 or so and this FHD at about the same time. Believe they cost me $25.00 each. Zack.

asheland

@lilolme said:
Here is an article on PCGS through the years.
States PCGS.com in 1996
Colledtors club 1997 (collectors could submit directly)
Coinfacts 1999
Online registry 2001
(I think the registry book was initially 1998 - I have the 1999 and I think I recall someone with the 1998 in prior thread post).

https://www.pcgs.com/news/pcgs-35-years-on

Thank you for posting that 👍

asheland

@TomB said:
"those coins are basically in their tombs"

Every time I read something like that my mind reads it as-

"those coins are basically in their TomB's"

Yikes!

I actually thought that while I was responding to your thread…

asheland

@jfriedm56 said:

@asheland said:
@jfriedm56 I was wondering, is that one of the ones you sent way back then? The pictured slab?

Yes Terry. that coin was sent in through a dealer in about 1990 or so and this FHD at about the same time. Believe they cost me $25.00 each. Zack.

That is an awesome coin! Even cooler still that you’ve had it ever since it was slabbed back then… 👍