I prefer CAC coins, but usually don't buy because sellers have their heads up their asses on prices.
Where you lost us is not using more specific words than "sellers."
Well, an auction house is not a seller, it is an auction, so the market participants dictate the final price. A coin dealer/seller is "seller" in my example because they afix their often, unrealistic price because the coin has a green bean. Sometimes it is warranted, often it is not.
@ARCO said:
CAC coins, without a doubt fetch the highest premiums. Well, PCGS+CAC is the winning combo...IMO. I prefer CAC coins, but usually don't buy because sellers have their heads up their asses on prices.
Gee, that's quite a broad negative statement, and it happens to be incorrect as well.
Like me, many sellers of coins in PCGS holders with CAC stickers consign their coins to Heritage, GC, Stacks, etc. As such, it's the BUYERS of those coins that determine the price sold, NOT the sellers. When you don't buy because the pricing is too high for YOU, don't blame the sellers.
Steve
It was tongue in cheek Steve. Take a deep breath. Also, a retail price is different than an auction...you agree?
First, retail prices from dealers/sellers and auction prices mutually impact each other. Second, my experience, is that if I can find coins I need/want from dealers/sellers, they are very often less than auction prices, so I still have difficulty agreeing with any of your points.
My guess is you still just get hung up and upset on the higher prices that PCGS holdered coins with CAC stickers are bringing in today’s market compared to coins that don’t merit CAC stickers, whether from dealers/sellers or auctions. 😉
Steve
A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!
@LeeBone said:
All I know is that those OGH's would look good with oval bling added on
>
Exactly! OGH and rattlers with a bean are a perfect combo, IMO. These, at least with rare gold, will often command a premium over Guide prices.
Also, I feel that a bean makes a coin more liquid, selling more quickly.
>
Just my .02c
I prefer CAC coins, but usually don't buy because sellers have their heads up their asses on prices.
Where you lost us is not using more specific words than "sellers."
Well, an auction house is not a seller, it is an auction, so the market participants dictate the final price. A coin dealer/seller is "seller" in my example because they afix their often, unrealistic price because the coin has a green bean. Sometimes it is warranted, often it is not.
Hope that helps.
Don’t you also often see sellers of non-CAC coins asking unrealistic prices? I have for the past 40+ years.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@ARCO said:
CAC coins, without a doubt fetch the highest premiums. Well, PCGS+CAC is the winning combo...IMO. I prefer CAC coins, but usually don't buy because sellers have their heads up their asses on prices.
Are you making that assessment by comparing the asking price to the Greysheet retail price guide, and are you complaining about sellers who price above the GS retail price? As others have pointed out, dealers and sellers have always done this, but if they are listed at GS retail, I wouldn't say they have they've done something anatomically impossible with their head.
I prefer CAC coins, but usually don't buy because sellers have their heads up their asses on prices.
Where you lost us is not using more specific words than "sellers."
Well, an auction house is not a seller, it is an auction, so the market participants dictate the final price. A coin dealer/seller is "seller" in my example because they afix their often, unrealistic price because the coin has a green bean. Sometimes it is warranted, often it is not.
Hope that helps.
Don’t you also often see sellers of non-CAC coins asking unrealistic prices? I have for the past 40+ years.
I agree with @MFeld though...gold sticker on a 68 is essentially declaring that it is the finest Morgan dollar in existence (or thereabouts). That's a steep hill to climb.
I agree with @MFeld though...gold sticker on a 68 is essentially declaring that it is the finest Morgan dollar in existence (or thereabouts). That's a steep hill to climb.
Good to know. Definitely NOT the finest, but still pretty nice
I have bought a number of CAC approved coins, but I have never paid huge premiums for them. I just liked the coins.
I have bid all time high amounts on coins, and still get blown out of the water. It makes me wonder. If these non CAC coins are unacceptable, why can’t I buy them with strong bids? It’s a puzzlement.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
@BillJones said:
I have bought a number of CAC approved coins, but I have never paid huge premiums for them. I just liked the coins.
I have bid all time high amounts on coins, and still get blown out of the water. It makes me wonder. If these non CAC coins are unacceptable, why can’t I buy them with strong bids? It’s a puzzlement.
I have bid all time high amounts on coins, and still get blown out of the water. It makes me wonder. If these non CAC coins are unacceptable, why can’t I buy them with strong bids? It’s a puzzlement.
I believe that in theory, if the REASON is provided of why a coin failed to sticker (and if asked why a coin failed to sticker, CAC stickering does indeed provide the submitter with that answer), then yes, there would be less competition and your bids would have a higher success rate. Did it fail to sticker because in the opinion of CAC the grade on the label is too high? Did it fail to sticker because it had a surface treatment that in the opinion of CAC is unacceptable, but IS acceptable by the TPG?
To be clear, I believe buying eye appealing coins that fail to sticker is perfectly fine if the buyer understands the reason it failed and is ok with that for the price they pay!!!! This is especially true for tougher dates or varieties that don’t appear often for sale!
Steve
A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!
I have bid all time high amounts on coins, and still get blown out of the water. It makes me wonder. If these non CAC coins are unacceptable, why can’t I buy them with strong bids? It’s a puzzlement.
I believe that in theory, if the REASON is provided of why a coin failed to sticker (and if asked why a coin failed to sticker, CAC stickering does indeed provide the submitter with that answer), then yes, there would be less competition and your bids would have a higher success rate. Did it fail to sticker because in the opinion of CAC the grade on the label is too high? Did it fail to sticker because it had a surface treatment that in the opinion of CAC is unacceptable, but IS acceptable by the TPG?
To be clear, I believe buying eye appealing coins that fail to sticker is perfectly fine if the buyer understands the reason it failed and is ok with that for the price they pay!!!! This is especially true for tougher dates or varieties that don’t appear often for sale!
Steve
Or it might just be that the coin in question has never been submitted to CAC. There is an urban legend that CAC has seen EVERY important coin, which is clearly not the case. If it were true, the CAC sticker business would be winding down now. It isn’t. There are also CAC approved coins which I have rejected and not just because of the price.
I don’t want to open up yet another can of which has been reopened countless times, but there are other possibilities.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
I have bid all time high amounts on coins, and still get blown out of the water. It makes me wonder. If these non CAC coins are unacceptable, why can’t I buy them with strong bids? It’s a puzzlement.
I believe that in theory, if the REASON is provided of why a coin failed to sticker (and if asked why a coin failed to sticker, CAC stickering does indeed provide the submitter with that answer), then yes, there would be less competition and your bids would have a higher success rate. Did it fail to sticker because in the opinion of CAC the grade on the label is too high? Did it fail to sticker because it had a surface treatment that in the opinion of CAC is unacceptable, but IS acceptable by the TPG?
To be clear, I believe buying eye appealing coins that fail to sticker is perfectly fine if the buyer understands the reason it failed and is ok with that for the price they pay!!!! This is especially true for tougher dates or varieties that don’t appear often for sale!
Steve
Or it might just be that the coin in question has never been submitted to CAC. There is an urban legend that CAC has seen EVERY important coin, which is clearly not the case. If it were true, the CAC sticker business would be winding down now. It isn’t. There are also CAC approved coins which I have rejected and not just because of the price.
I don’t want to open up yet another can of which has been reopened countless times, but there are other possibilities.
True, but the odds are likely tied to the coin value. With three figure coins, I believe the percentage of those that have not been to CAC are greater than for graded coins valued in the "mid" four figures and higher, where I believe many more have been sent to CAC than have not been sent.
I agree we should not detract from this good thread. I replied only to address your recognition that some non-stickered coins get a lot of "decent" bids, and in my opinion that's because the reason for CAC failure (if it failed) is not noted. If it were, I believe there would be less demand.
Steve
A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!
Not too much to add, except for several things. Based on what I have seen, CAC criteria for coins in a specific series in a certain grade, like TPG grading standards, have changed over time.
Most people will think an expensive coin without a sticker has been tried unsuccessfully.
Lastly, about ten years ago, I sent an eye appealing Barber Half from New Orleans to CAC and it did not sticker. I asked why, and was told that because the strike was weak. 90% of New Orleans coins have weak strikes. I still have an issue with this. OTOH, an attractively toned New Orleans Seated Half I sent in to CAC did sticker, and PCGS also gave it a +. I still have an issue with this.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
Comments
And now, having seen your Morgan Dollar Set on the Registry, and none have a Bean, I'm guessing you haven't sent any?
I prefer CAC coins, but usually don't buy because sellers have their heads up their asses on prices.
Where you lost us is not using more specific words than "sellers."
Well, an auction house is not a seller, it is an auction, so the market participants dictate the final price. A coin dealer/seller is "seller" in my example because they afix their often, unrealistic price because the coin has a green bean. Sometimes it is warranted, often it is not.
Hope that helps.
First, retail prices from dealers/sellers and auction prices mutually impact each other. Second, my experience, is that if I can find coins I need/want from dealers/sellers, they are very often less than auction prices, so I still have difficulty agreeing with any of your points.
My guess is you still just get hung up and upset on the higher prices that PCGS holdered coins with CAC stickers are bringing in today’s market compared to coins that don’t merit CAC stickers, whether from dealers/sellers or auctions. 😉
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
>
Exactly! OGH and rattlers with a bean are a perfect combo, IMO. These, at least with rare gold, will often command a premium over Guide prices.
Also, I feel that a bean makes a coin more liquid, selling more quickly.
>
Just my .02c
Don’t you also often see sellers of non-CAC coins asking unrealistic prices? I have for the past 40+ years.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Are you making that assessment by comparing the asking price to the Greysheet retail price guide, and are you complaining about sellers who price above the GS retail price? As others have pointed out, dealers and sellers have always done this, but if they are listed at GS retail, I wouldn't say they have they've done something anatomically impossible with their head.
For sure!
http://ProofCollection.Net
Correct. I left collecting for 18++ years and just recently got back into it....
Send them in. Too much upside to not try.
The pictures aren’t great, but here are the results for the first 2 coins I submitted
.
I’ll be honest, I thought I’d had a chance for gold. Much nicer in person, pictures are not great.
.
Congratulations! That sticker is a big deal on the 1879-S.
Thanks for the update and congratulations.
The odds of a gold CAC sticker for any MS68 Morgan dollar would be incredibly slim.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Congrats!
I agree with @MFeld though...gold sticker on a 68 is essentially declaring that it is the finest Morgan dollar in existence (or thereabouts). That's a steep hill to climb.
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
Good to know. Definitely NOT the finest, but still pretty nice
Cha-ching! Congratulations!
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I have bought a number of CAC approved coins, but I have never paid huge premiums for them. I just liked the coins.
I have bid all time high amounts on coins, and still get blown out of the water. It makes me wonder. If these non CAC coins are unacceptable, why can’t I buy them with strong bids? It’s a puzzlement.
Per a conversation with JA, he doesn't gold sticker every coin he see that deserves an upgrade.
http://ProofCollection.Net
For the record, I'm not complaining. VERY happy with the green bean....
Thanks for update. Beautiful pieces.
You are obviously not bidding on widgets.
I believe that in theory, if the REASON is provided of why a coin failed to sticker (and if asked why a coin failed to sticker, CAC stickering does indeed provide the submitter with that answer), then yes, there would be less competition and your bids would have a higher success rate. Did it fail to sticker because in the opinion of CAC the grade on the label is too high? Did it fail to sticker because it had a surface treatment that in the opinion of CAC is unacceptable, but IS acceptable by the TPG?
To be clear, I believe buying eye appealing coins that fail to sticker is perfectly fine if the buyer understands the reason it failed and is ok with that for the price they pay!!!! This is especially true for tougher dates or varieties that don’t appear often for sale!
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Or it might just be that the coin in question has never been submitted to CAC. There is an urban legend that CAC has seen EVERY important coin, which is clearly not the case. If it were true, the CAC sticker business would be winding down now. It isn’t. There are also CAC approved coins which I have rejected and not just because of the price.
I don’t want to open up yet another can of which has been reopened countless times, but there are other possibilities.
True, but the odds are likely tied to the coin value. With three figure coins, I believe the percentage of those that have not been to CAC are greater than for graded coins valued in the "mid" four figures and higher, where I believe many more have been sent to CAC than have not been sent.
I agree we should not detract from this good thread. I replied only to address your recognition that some non-stickered coins get a lot of "decent" bids, and in my opinion that's because the reason for CAC failure (if it failed) is not noted. If it were, I believe there would be less demand.
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Not too much to add, except for several things. Based on what I have seen, CAC criteria for coins in a specific series in a certain grade, like TPG grading standards, have changed over time.
Most people will think an expensive coin without a sticker has been tried unsuccessfully.
Lastly, about ten years ago, I sent an eye appealing Barber Half from New Orleans to CAC and it did not sticker. I asked why, and was told that because the strike was weak. 90% of New Orleans coins have weak strikes. I still have an issue with this. OTOH, an attractively toned New Orleans Seated Half I sent in to CAC did sticker, and PCGS also gave it a +. I still have an issue with this.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."