Wheel marks can be really tough to see in-hand and devilishly difficult to capture an image of in order to share.
If you are asking about the area I have outlined in blue in your image then my first impression is that if they are limited to this area and if the entire area around it doesn't have any luster change then they are simply a patch of hairlines. However, if the area they are in has a discernible difference in luster when the coin is rotated then they could be what are termed wheel marks.
The diagonal pattern of spotting on the coin, going essentially from 10:00 to 4:00 on a clock face and looking like grey rain, would be what I would simply call water spots. Again, this is based entirely upon your image and nothing else. This type of spotting wasn't unusual for Peace dollars in the 1920s or for ASEs in the 2000s, but I am not certain how commonly WQs are found with it.
@TomB said:
Wheel marks can be really tough to see in-hand and devilishly difficult to capture an image of in order to share.
If you are asking about the area I have outlined in blue in your image then my first impression is that if they are limited to this area and if the entire area around it doesn't have any luster change then they are simply a patch of hairlines. However, if the area they are in has a discernible difference in luster when the coin is rotated then they could be what are termed wheel marks.
The diagonal pattern of spotting on the coin, going essentially from 10:00 to 4:00 on a clock face and looking like grey rain, would be what I would simply call water spots. Again, this is based entirely upon your image and nothing else. This type of spotting wasn't unusual for Peace dollars in the 1920s or for ASEs in the 2000s, but I am not certain how commonly WQs are found with it.
Yes that's correct, the circled area. I was concerned about the wheel-marks, I have been researching on them, initially I wasn't sure what they were since they are hard to spot at times and require the right light and angles. Is this something that would get a details grade if sent in? The Quarter has incredible luster and is stunning. I've attached a video to better show it. You can see it towards the end of the clip the hairlines.
If there is a better way of sending videos let me know (Wouldn't Let Me Upload a file)
You've got a lot of glare in the recording right along Washington's cheek, which is the area where you have questions. From what I could see the coin does not have what I would call wheel marks. It might be easier to illustrate them if you lessened the glare, moved the coin more slowly and rotated it with respect to the light source. By rotating it with respect to the light source I don't mean simply moving it around, but rotating it at least 90-degrees in each direction. That kind of rotation can highlight wheel mark damage.
From what I can tell this coin would straight-grade, but I have to warn you that I don't view its grade as high as you apparently do.
@TomB said:
You've got a lot of glare in the recording right along Washington's cheek, which is the area where you have questions. From what I could see the coin does not have what I would call wheel marks. It might be easier to illustrate them if you lessened the glare, moved the coin more slowly and rotated it with respect to the light source. By rotating it with respect to the light source I don't mean simply moving it around, but rotating it at least 90-degrees in each direction. That kind of rotation can highlight wheel mark damage.
From what I can tell this coin would straight-grade, but I have to warn you that I don't view its grade as high as you apparently do.
Gotcha, ok now im better understanding wheel-marks. What is it about the coin that makes the coin not worthy of a higher grade? Few scuffs on the bust maybe? Still trying to understand. It has great luster, I was thinking around MS66?
New Question, Do Die Cracks Limit a grade on a Quarter? If the Quarter is in Great Shape Yet has Die Cracks? (Streak on the obverse is some sort of toning/film maybe from old tape. Not Wheel-Marks)
New Question, Would this 1947-P Get a Details scratch for the cheek slight hit/scratch? One of my better quarters, I think it could get a 67 or higher when compared to others of similar grade. I attached below another which is an MS68 that has hits for reference not details.
@DaRigMan04 said:
New Question, Would this 1947-P Get a Details scratch for the cheek slight hit/scratch? One of my better quarters, I think it could get a 67 or higher when compared to others of similar grade. I attached below another which is an MS68 that has hits for reference not details.
No, your coin shouldn’t receive a detail grade for the mark on the cheek. It’s not even a close call. However, at the same time, I don’t think it would grade 67 or higher. It can be misleading to compare an uncertified coin to a graded one in trying to arrive at an estimated grade. If you’re going to do so, at least use a large sample size. The pictured 1947 example was almost certainly the beneficiary of a bump in grade, due to its color.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@DaRigMan04 said:
New Question, Would this 1947-P Get a Details scratch for the cheek slight hit/scratch? One of my better quarters, I think it could get a 67 or higher when compared to others of similar grade. I attached below another which is an MS68 that has hits for reference not details.
No, your coin shouldn’t receive a detail grade for the mark on the cheek. It’s not even a close call. However, at the same time, I don’t think it would grade 67 or higher. It can be misleading to compare an uncertified coin to a graded one in trying to arrive at an estimated grade. If you’re going to do so, at least use a large sample size.
Ok got it. I'm still trying to understand what is seen on the coin that doesn't make it a 67? Based on the reference of other Quarters of the similar grade, a clear field and little hit marks on the bust and reverse. What is it that you guys see that I don't that makes it not worth a higher grade? Is there something I am missing. I think the only problem on it is that scratch that may lower the grade.
@DaRigMan04 said:
New Question, Would this 1947-P Get a Details scratch for the cheek slight hit/scratch? One of my better quarters, I think it could get a 67 or higher when compared to others of similar grade. I attached below another which is an MS68 that has hits for reference not details.
No, your coin shouldn’t receive a detail grade for the mark on the cheek. It’s not even a close call. However, at the same time, I don’t think it would grade 67 or higher. It can be misleading to compare an uncertified coin to a graded one in trying to arrive at an estimated grade. If you’re going 9to do so, at least use a large sample size.
Ok got it. I'm still trying to understand what is seen on the coin that doesn't make it a 67? Based on the reference of other Quarters of the similar grade, a clear field and little hit marks on the bust and reverse. What is it that you guys see that I don't that makes it not worth a higher grade? Is there something I am missing. I think the only problem on it is that scratch that may lower the grade.
This is simply my opinion - I’d grade the coin lower than 67 due to the mark on the cheek, marks on the lower right portion of the neck, spots near the obverse border at approximately 9:00 and multiple marks on the reverse.
Also, for videos, I recommend that you tilt and rotate coins much more slowly than what I saw in the one above.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@DaRigMan04 said:
New Question, Would this 1947-P Get a Details scratch for the cheek slight hit/scratch? One of my better quarters, I think it could get a 67 or higher when compared to others of similar grade. I attached below another which is an MS68 that has hits for reference not details.
No, your coin shouldn’t receive a detail grade for the mark on the cheek. It’s not even a close call. However, at the same time, I don’t think it would grade 67 or higher. It can be misleading to compare an uncertified coin to a graded one in trying to arrive at an estimated grade. If you’re going 9to do so, at least use a large sample size.
Ok got it. I'm still trying to understand what is seen on the coin that doesn't make it a 67? Based on the reference of other Quarters of the similar grade, a clear field and little hit marks on the bust and reverse. What is it that you guys see that I don't that makes it not worth a higher grade? Is there something I am missing. I think the only problem on it is that scratch that may lower the grade.
This is simply my opinion - I’d grade the coin lower than 67 due to the mark on the cheek, marks on the lower right portion of the neck, spots near the obverse border at approximately 9:00 and multiple marks on the reverse.
Also, for videos, I recommend that you tilt and rotate coins much more slowly than what I saw in the one above.
Understood. This is why I referenced the MS68 I sent TV of. Its probably the toning that bumped the grade but it does have a decent amount of hit marks.
Here is the finest example I have thus far. Continuing my search to cherry-pick them. Also took note of the slower movement to show the coin off. Thank you.
@DaRigMan04 said:
Here is the finest example I have thus far. Continuing my search to cherry-pick them. Also took note of the slower movement to show the coin off. Thank you.
You’re welcome and that looks like a much better speed on the video.
The obverse of the coin appears to have considerable light colored streaky areas, which will probably negatively impact the grade. My guess is that those areas are the result of toning that was etched into the con’s surface and removed to the extent possible.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@DaRigMan04 said:
Here is the finest example I have thus far. Continuing my search to cherry-pick them. Also took note of the slower movement to show the coin off. Thank you.
You’re welcome and that looks like a much better speed on the video.
The obverse of the coin appears to have considerable light colored streaky areas, which will probably negatively impact the grade. My guess is that those areas are the result of toning that was etched into the con’s surface and removed to the extent possible.
It seems to potentially be as a result of maybe tape over it? I could always dip it. It seems to have been that way for a long time. I thought maybe it would be more positive than negative since it makes it look I guess abit more aged or original in someway.
The hit on the 1947 WQ is trivial and that would not preclude a straight-grade on that coin. It would grade each time and every time. However, you are far more optimistic about the grades of some of these coins than I am as I see that coin as perhaps a generic MS66.
Now that I have seen the video I like it more, but I might have vertigo from the incredibly fast rate you rotated the coin. I would suggest to rotate the coin at about the same speed you would do so if rotating it while looking at it through a loop.
@TomB said:
Now that I have seen the video I like it more, but I might have vertigo from the incredibly fast rate you rotated the coin. I would suggest to rotate the coin at about the same speed you would do so if rotating it while looking at it through a loop.
I revised my form of videoing the quarters, I sent another of a better 1947-P that I have. I think that one has the best chance of getting higher than an MS66. Mark Mentioned regarding the streak on the obverse, I believe it could be toning due to old tape or some sort of residue. I could if I wanted dip it to get rid of it but not sure. (Not Wheel-Marks)
Do you see the diagonal lines going all across the coin from approximately 10:00 to 4:00 o'clock? They start in the fields, travel up over the devices and aren't really visible when you held the coin straight to the camera and light. You can also see how they stop abruptly at IGWT and start again afterward. This is what a wiped coin looks like and you should keep the coin to familiarize yourself with this type of manipulation and so that you can spot it in-hand.
Comments
Wheel marks can be really tough to see in-hand and devilishly difficult to capture an image of in order to share.
If you are asking about the area I have outlined in blue in your image then my first impression is that if they are limited to this area and if the entire area around it doesn't have any luster change then they are simply a patch of hairlines. However, if the area they are in has a discernible difference in luster when the coin is rotated then they could be what are termed wheel marks.
The diagonal pattern of spotting on the coin, going essentially from 10:00 to 4:00 on a clock face and looking like grey rain, would be what I would simply call water spots. Again, this is based entirely upon your image and nothing else. This type of spotting wasn't unusual for Peace dollars in the 1920s or for ASEs in the 2000s, but I am not certain how commonly WQs are found with it.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Yes that's correct, the circled area. I was concerned about the wheel-marks, I have been researching on them, initially I wasn't sure what they were since they are hard to spot at times and require the right light and angles. Is this something that would get a details grade if sent in? The Quarter has incredible luster and is stunning. I've attached a video to better show it. You can see it towards the end of the clip the hairlines.
If there is a better way of sending videos let me know (Wouldn't Let Me Upload a file)
https://imgur.com/dLJ4OgK
You've got a lot of glare in the recording right along Washington's cheek, which is the area where you have questions. From what I could see the coin does not have what I would call wheel marks. It might be easier to illustrate them if you lessened the glare, moved the coin more slowly and rotated it with respect to the light source. By rotating it with respect to the light source I don't mean simply moving it around, but rotating it at least 90-degrees in each direction. That kind of rotation can highlight wheel mark damage.
From what I can tell this coin would straight-grade, but I have to warn you that I don't view its grade as high as you apparently do.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Gotcha, ok now im better understanding wheel-marks. What is it about the coin that makes the coin not worthy of a higher grade? Few scuffs on the bust maybe? Still trying to understand. It has great luster, I was thinking around MS66?
New Question, Do Die Cracks Limit a grade on a Quarter? If the Quarter is in Great Shape Yet has Die Cracks? (Streak on the obverse is some sort of toning/film maybe from old tape. Not Wheel-Marks)
Die cracks, by themselves, will not lower a grade on a WQ.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Good to know. Thank you!
New Question, Would this 1947-P Get a Details scratch for the cheek slight hit/scratch? One of my better quarters, I think it could get a 67 or higher when compared to others of similar grade. I attached below another which is an MS68 that has hits for reference not details.
No, your coin shouldn’t receive a detail grade for the mark on the cheek. It’s not even a close call. However, at the same time, I don’t think it would grade 67 or higher. It can be misleading to compare an uncertified coin to a graded one in trying to arrive at an estimated grade. If you’re going to do so, at least use a large sample size. The pictured 1947 example was almost certainly the beneficiary of a bump in grade, due to its color.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Ok got it. I'm still trying to understand what is seen on the coin that doesn't make it a 67? Based on the reference of other Quarters of the similar grade, a clear field and little hit marks on the bust and reverse. What is it that you guys see that I don't that makes it not worth a higher grade? Is there something I am missing. I think the only problem on it is that scratch that may lower the grade.
Video Link to the coin
https://imgur.com/a/YcV6o89
This is simply my opinion - I’d grade the coin lower than 67 due to the mark on the cheek, marks on the lower right portion of the neck, spots near the obverse border at approximately 9:00 and multiple marks on the reverse.
Also, for videos, I recommend that you tilt and rotate coins much more slowly than what I saw in the one above.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Understood. This is why I referenced the MS68 I sent TV of. Its probably the toning that bumped the grade but it does have a decent amount of hit marks.
Here is the finest example I have thus far. Continuing my search to cherry-pick them. Also took note of the slower movement to show the coin off. Thank you.
https://imgur.com/a/0BCbiTN
You’re welcome and that looks like a much better speed on the video.
The obverse of the coin appears to have considerable light colored streaky areas, which will probably negatively impact the grade. My guess is that those areas are the result of toning that was etched into the con’s surface and removed to the extent possible.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
It seems to potentially be as a result of maybe tape over it? I could always dip it. It seems to have been that way for a long time. I thought maybe it would be more positive than negative since it makes it look I guess abit more aged or original in someway.
The hit on the 1947 WQ is trivial and that would not preclude a straight-grade on that coin. It would grade each time and every time. However, you are far more optimistic about the grades of some of these coins than I am as I see that coin as perhaps a generic MS66.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Now that I have seen the video I like it more, but I might have vertigo from the incredibly fast rate you rotated the coin. I would suggest to rotate the coin at about the same speed you would do so if rotating it while looking at it through a loop.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I revised my form of videoing the quarters, I sent another of a better 1947-P that I have. I think that one has the best chance of getting higher than an MS66. Mark Mentioned regarding the streak on the obverse, I believe it could be toning due to old tape or some sort of residue. I could if I wanted dip it to get rid of it but not sure. (Not Wheel-Marks)
Video:
https://imgur.com/a/0BCbiTN
Closeup Photo of Obverse:
1948-S I have, Im afraid that these hairlines are indeed wheel marks and will only get details?
https://imgur.com/a/jgyfcer
Looks cleaned; I wouldn't send it in.
In my opinion, the 1948-S looks like it might have been wiped. If so, the coin would not get a straight grade.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Do you see the diagonal lines going all across the coin from approximately 10:00 to 4:00 o'clock? They start in the fields, travel up over the devices and aren't really visible when you held the coin straight to the camera and light. You can also see how they stop abruptly at IGWT and start again afterward. This is what a wiped coin looks like and you should keep the coin to familiarize yourself with this type of manipulation and so that you can spot it in-hand.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson