ICG grader on grading methods, detecting "cleaning", etc.
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Please try these grading tips at home
F. Michael “Skip” Fazzari
(Originally published in the “Making the Grade” column of Numismatic News, August 20, 2013)
I’m beginning to think that a majority of dealers and collectors do not know how to examine their coins. That’s because the most common question I get at the Independent Coin Grading booth during coin shows deals with cleaning.
“Is this cleaned?” My usual response is: “What do you think?” It is one way to draw them out, make them think, and possibly educate them. Most don’t even have a hand lens to use when they come to the table. Often, I feel my instruction does no good; yet once in a while some see the light and it is all worth the effort. So with this column, I want to scold some of you into action so you start to look at coins in a different way. Please read on and try some of my advice.
Our coins “talk” to us. In order to “hear” what they are saying, the conditions must be right. Just as an orchestra in a concert hall will sound differently from the same performance outside on a busy street, the conditions at a poorly lighted coin show are not the same as a professional grading room.
I have worked for a number of grading services, but not all, so I cannot speak for them; but at the major grading services at which I have worked, we do our jobs in a dark room. Most professional graders use a 75 to 100-watt incandescent light source. At one time, halogen lights were popular but I don’t recommend them. OK, a dark room is vital; but in practice, such as a coin shop or show, we must give up that requirement leaving us with only an incandescent bulb.
Next, you must train yourself to tip and rotate the coin in the light DOING BOTH AT THE SAMETIME. It is very frustrating for me to see a collector pick up a coin to examine it with a Ioupe for 1 0to 20 seconds without moving the coin at all. When I tell them to tip and rotate the coin, I’ll see the coin move up and down a little in the light but that is all. You rotate a coin by turning it, the 2X2, or the slab it is in with a twisting motion of the wrist. For example, if you rotate a coin properly, the date will move from the 6 o’clock position, through 9 o’clock, 12, 3, and back to the 6 o’clock position. It is not easy to do this at first. Practice twisting your wrist slowly while holding something like a tennis ball. If you still have trouble, just hold the coin in several positions of the clock dial. Remember to tip the coin up and down slightly as you do this. The subtle changes that the coin is “screaming-out” to you are best seen as changes in its surface that become visible with each small degree of rotation through 360degrees. If at all possible, work over a soft surface in case you drop some coins at first.
Now, just look at the coin from five to eight inches away depending on your eye-sight. Its color, luster and eye appeal will give you the first hints as to its authenticity and grade. Obviously, the more coins you have examined properly, the easier it will be to understand what the coin is telling you. Any time you see pictures of professional numismatists viewing coins this way without a hand lens, they are judging the overall attractiveness and eye appeal of the coin; or it is a photo opportunity to show the person’s profile.
Incandescent light, tip and rotate, what’s next? Most collectors use many times the magnification power they should be using. I’ll leave dealers out of this discussion because it seems to me that many rarely use any form of magnification at all to view coins. What is the ideal power of magnification? Trick question-it varies. Low powers are useful for grading and higher powers are usually needed for authentication. I learned to grade using a 4X-40X Nikon stereo-zoom microscope. It covers all the bases; yet that is a luxury reserved for the grading room. That’s why I carry several hand magnifiers (both plastic and glass triplets) .that give me a range of 3X to 20X. The most common magnifier I see collectors using at shows is 10X. I don’t recommend them for any novice because they have no range. In my opinion, a 10X magnifier falls into a “no-man’s-land.” It is on the borderline of being too low a power to search for minute varieties yet is far too much magnification to easily grade a coin. Although, most professional numismatists seem to grade coins with their naked eye, they will pick up a magnifier to look more closely for repairs or authenticity. I use a stereo-microscope instead. For grading coins, I recommend beginners use between 5X and 7X magnification. My favorite hand lens is the Bausch & Lomb 3X, 4X, 7X combination lens. Originals are out of production but you can find a suitable “knock-off” on the Internet. I don’t like the B&L 4x, 5X, 9X combo that is presently available as its lens diameter is too small. The larger size, low power combo has spoiled me. The 3X, 4X, 7X lens lets you view the entire surface of most coins all at once. It also has a large depth of field. Since you can focus the coin while holding the lens farther away, plenty of light reaches the coin’s surface so you can see it better. If for some reason I need to use more magnification, I’ll take out an expensive triplet magnifier. To be in focus, a 16X or 20X hand lens that some collectors use must be held so they almost touch the coin’s surface -thus blocking much of the light needed to see anything. It’s simple to remember. The higher the power of magnification, the smaller the lens opening (diameter), and the shorter the focal length so you need to have the coin closer to the lens to be in focus. With the lens closer to the coin, the less of the coin’s surface you will see at one time and the less light will reach the coin – yuck. That’s just what you don’t need for grading so put those high power hand lenses in a drawer where they will be safe.
Once you decide on a hand lens, you’ll need to learn the proper way to use it. No matter how you are looking at coins now, please try this at home: In a dark room, get your head close to a single incandescent light source. Pick up the coin in one hand over a soft surface with your magnifier in the other hand. Bring the hand lens up very close to your eye and keep it there (I take my eye glasses off for this). Now, move your hand holding the coin toward the hand lens until it comes into focus. You should have both your hands very close to your face. Do not move the lens away from your eye to focus the coin and remember to tip and rotate the coin in the light. Give it a try. It will feel strange at first; but this is the proper way to use a hand lens. Let me know if I’ve made any converts.
https://www.icgcoin.com/2023/05/03/please-try-these-grading-tips-at-home/
Comments
Fantastic How To Look At Coins Tutorial!
Someone once told me that a 5x magnifier is to take in all the beauty of the coin,
and the 10x is to make you aware of hard-to-spot micro-flaws.
Fazzari’s last paragraph is really the key to someone ‘seeing’ a coin.
30+ years coin shop experience (ret.) Coins, bullion, currency, scrap & interesting folks. Loved every minute!
Yep. Insider1/2/3 has spoken.
Smitten with DBLCs.
Huh, the article started with an insult to "a majority of dealers and collectors."
Yes, and he also pooh-poohed the use of my two favorite viewing tools - 10x magnification and a halogen lamp.
BUT …
He did admit an intent to ‘scold’ in his 2nd paragraph.
30+ years coin shop experience (ret.) Coins, bullion, currency, scrap & interesting folks. Loved every minute!
Good information
I looked the grader up on the internet. If he says "majority" I would tend to believe it. The truth hurts as I could be his poster boy for the way I look at coins. The way I see it, no famous dealer, advanced collector, grading expert, or many of you who might feel he is insulting would even bother to ask for an opinion from any grader. You would go to one of your dealer friends like I do. Therefore, it sounds like he is dealing with people who are not very knowledgeable.
Good advice for anyone who hadn't learned that.
WTG Skip
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
The title is mis-leading. This is not about identifying a cleaning it is about how to view a coin.
While I believe that most dealers want to impart their knowledge to others and feel that they "made a difference." At the end of the day, they want to move the inventory. So an "uneducated" consumer may be more desired.
And what is with the stigma of a "cleaned" coin? You wouldld think it caused leprosy.
You've been here for three weeks so I'll pardon your ignorance (as I hope many would for me because I've only been here for a few years).
Skip has been a member here, off and on, for a very long time and still regularly posts on the CAC forum. He is a very knowledgeable numismatist and grader.
My comment has to do with his manner of interpersonal communications...they can leave something to be desired. He can be a prickly and unpleasant person more often than many. So, him leading an article with a derisory comment was not surprising.
On a separate note, the "way you see it" is ludicrously wrong. Many people here (including myself) speak with graders with some regularity. Many of the people here are (or were) graders for TPGs...and generally more highly regarded TPGs than ICG.
I enjoyed the read, doubt my habits conflict much, but i was 10 years old when a "stamp' friend gave me a 2 inch by 4 inch magnifying glass with long arm. The glass is 2.5 mag. with an inset 1inch diameter 5x mag. eye. 54 years later it is still on my desk. I do have a bausch & lomb 5x 10x 20x but that is for varieties and plain curiosity. James
Just don't get your forehead too close to the light bulb.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Thanks for the reply. I'm getting my feet wet around here. As my name hints, I have collected original RED copper for four years so I'm ignorant on many things numismatics.
Perhaps the graders should make themselves known to us newbies. I would be proud to have been one and if you can do it, it is not bragging. I would give their posts about grading more weight. Were you a former grader? This place seems to be one big family and most of you are insiders that know everyone.
Sharing what works for grading is welcome. A numismatist really needs to develop a comfort level in how to examine a coin... sort of like gripping a golf club for the first time and getting comfortable with the so-called v grip.
Even the best learned grading practices will not end the subjective nature of grading, but it should help keep you in the fairway.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
No one would confuse me for a grader
I know my series pretty well and have a decent but not great eye for gold but otherwise, other than major issues, I am under no illusions as to my lack of knowledge.
Many people here have known each other in real life for decades and have a well established history in numismatics. While I have made some very good friends that I would literally trust with anything through this board, I am still very much a relative newbie compared to some of the longstanding members.
I agree this board is similar to a big family, both in the longstanding and deep connections between members, as well as frequent squabbles.
And I am curious what that statement adds to the conversation?
Many graders had to sign NDA's, and oftentimes don't like to speak on their time as a grader for fear of breaking that NDA.
It's not as glamorous as some make it to be, and it is certainly a thankless job.
Coin Photographer.
4redisin said "The way I see it, no famous dealer, advanced collector, grading expert, or many of you who might feel he is insulting would even bother to ask for an opinion from any grader"
I wanted him to be aware that there is a wealth of top notch grading talent on this board, including current/former graders.
We do ask for opinions from graders regularly.
(If you meant the little ICG dig..it was a little dig and probably doesn't add much. But, given how arrogant the article OP posted read and a not uncommon opinion of the author's employer, I made the comment. It's quoted and too late to edit so there it lives.)
Cleaning might be worse than leprosy. You can cure leprosy. 😉
"Cleaned coins" is too simplistic a term to be meaningful. In the world of ancient coins, they are virtually all dug and "cleaned" or "curated". Even there, however, if you put the coin on a buffing wheel you have forever impaired it.
There are thousands, possibly millions of "cleaned" coins that are straight graded and completely market acceptable. A light dip or a little detergent won't be viewed as leprosy. However, when the cleaning is more aggressive and impairs the surface, the coin is no longer market acceptable.
Yes I did; sad that is a part of the forum, as we all have our opinions.
Thanks Skip. Some of us (a minority) appreciate the tip and learned the right way to view a coin. Much appreciated. And, I am not thin skinned enough to care how your writing comes across. I learned a long time ago that I can’t read tone and never to take offense unless someone tells me they intended to offend me. That has served me well for many years. Again, thanks for sharing.
One would have to be pretty thin-skinned to find this anything but helpful. I appreciate the information as to viewing method; however is there more regarding what to look for that indicates cleaning? Perhaps it is taken for granted that we are to look for hairlines? Anything else? Did I gloss over something?
Perhaps it is taken for granted that we are to look for hairlines? Anything else? Did I gloss over something?
Lack of luster?
Luster is certainly a useful clue, but what about circulated coins?
The hard part for me is not seeing the evidence of cleaning or other defects. The hard part is identifying it accurately for what it is.
http://ProofCollection.Net
Yep. Since I don't buy coins with luster, I never have to look for it. Lol!
My Carson City Morgan Registry Set
Anthony Swiatek who had some good articles in his newsletter talked about the loss of silver with dips, and once told me that XFs should have some luster in protected areas. However Mr. Feld disputed this, so maybe the compromise judgment would be that most XFs would have some luster in protected areas. Heavy toning makes it hard to see though. Swiatek like a hand-held magnifier with a point light source, it probably all depends on the competence of the guy/gal using it.
The PCGS Grading guide book says for XF45:
http://ProofCollection.Net
Hard to describe but when you handled a lot of coins you can usually tell when seeing it. Overly white coins that are XF and lower grades on older classic coins & dulled luster on XF and better grades are telltale signs of over-dipping. Although sometimes you need to consider the date/MM. Like 1901P Morgans are pretty dull to begin with so you need to take into consideration if looking at an XF and even AU 1901. Overall fine hairlines covering most of the obv/rev esp going in 1 direction is obvious cleaning with cloth.
I am curious as I saw no arrogance if what the author said was true that he encounters a lot of people (including dealers) who may not know as much as you do about coins for example. Besides, he probably was writing for the general public and not a chat room full of coin experts that already know how to look at coins.
I have had my share of ignorant successful coin dealers who could use a numismatic 101 class. One didn't know what a "Maverick" was. Another told me the actual letters I could see under the Indian's chin on a nickel was damage - I had to learn for myself what a die clash was.
I searched the Internet and there are lots of articles and videos (including more of his) on how to detect cleaning. It would fill a small book. I'm taking lots of notes a will post something in the future. Hopefully, someone does it before me as it is lots of work but worth it.
I'm very surprised to hear that from Mr. Feld. @MarkFeld, say it isn't so.
I don’t remember the conversation (whether it was through posts or otherwise). However, I believe it’s more likely that I said I’d seen a lot of XF coins without luster in the protected areas.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Yea yea, save it for the judge, mister. We’ve heard it all before…lucky for you, 2nd degree grade-flating is only a misdemeanor.
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Which is consistent with the grading guidelines... I agree with @MFeld and PCGS: while some XFs have residual luster, it is not a requirement even in 45. I've even heard people say that an AU50 is an XF45 with luster.
Detail is less important than the quality of the surfaces beginning at the EF40 level and that importance increases at EF45 and extends into the AU spectrum. Surface quality is underrated in terms of determining the most appropriate grade.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
It’s a shame he has been banned so many times. I enjoyed his contributions in the whole.
Latin American Collection
I am not going to post what I'm thinking I can see all over the image of that XF-40. I'm sure it must be a trick of the camera and the reflected light. Anyway, I'm glad to read that you may have been misquoted.
What's a "Maverick?"
I believe a “maverick” is a token of undiscovered origin. Or a TV show, or a Top Gun character
An old car!> @oldabeintx said:
Plus an old car.
I think in coin lingo it's an outlier of some sort.
For the most part, I agree. Personality issues aside, he is extremely knowledgeable and adds a lot of expertise.
To illustrate, if you had a token that had “Joe’s Bar/ 25 cents” on the obverse and an eagle on the reverse, but had no idea which Joe’s Bar, where or when, it is a “maverick” until someone does the research or recognizes it.
I'd still like to see his sassy posts; unfortunately he's not all that great when on the internet with self-control and doesn't abide by the strict guidelines. He said he was raised by wolves, lol, I guess like "Romulus and Remus" of Roman legend. Years ago before their current improved management I had my differences with their graders and would get notes that they didn't like my online comments of some of their grading and threatened to publicly post my submission form which they were critical of the legibility of my handwriting; maybe they should get with the program where every other grading service has an online fillable form, as I submitted to PCGS this week, very user friendly.
Chatted with Skip; he seems happy to still be making an impact here!
Here is part of a column posted by Numismatic News that may help:
"Coins impaired by some degree of “improper cleaning” seem to be the most difficult to detect and grade for many of our customers. They represent at least 30% of the coins I see at ICG on a daily basis. The “key” to detecting unoriginal coins is their color. Originality is an easy thing for me to teach most students in a short period of time as long as they are not color blind and have learned to examine a coin properly (tip it back and forth between two fingers at the same time as you are rotating it). In order to develop an eye for originality, readers should study the color and appearance of untoned coins that have been graded MS-65 and above by one of the four major grading services. As a beginner, when buying Uncirculated coins, it’s best to avoid unslabbed coins that are shiny silver or gold, gray, or toned."
I am making a list of other hints to detect cleaned coins. There must also be lots of info in the CU archives.
Coppercollector posted this in the archives: