@MsMorrisine said:
seems like higher mintages are a lock for the 5 250th coins
If the past year has shown anything, it's that nothing is ever a lock with the Mint. Lots of unsatisfied demand, untapped authorized mintages, and no more FH product in 2024. Nothing is a lock.
OTOH, you can have as many 2024 Morgan and Peace Dollars as you can handle, in 6 different flavors. Below issue price in OGP in some iterations from some dealers. Even on TV.
Precious metal prices, sales of other products, supply chains, planchet availability, the alignment of the stars, and the whims of decision makers at the Mint will dictate what happens 18 months from now. Nothing is a lock.
SB didn't buy them this time. No reason to think they will in the future. And no, $10K for 3 ounces of gold does not lend itself to a SB auction the way $30K for one ounce does, so that's not really a possibility.
If my speculation is correct, 7,500 sets of gold coins will be marketed in the future. They will include the missing 2024 FH gold coins, that currently sell for $4600+ by themselves. There would be a vibrant market for such a set at pretty much whatever price the Mint sets, without help from SB. There will also be 25K sets of the related silver medals.
Stay tuned. I think it's a very real possibility.
I'm not sure if you are talking about only 7,500 sets of these in total, but based on past sales the High Relief UHR St Gaudens could do 25k alone, and the fractionals could sell for the less fortunate collectors. If this is an all or nothing proposition then many will not be able to afford the entire set, but many will buy to flip on credit card, since demand will far exceed supply. BTW the mint never goes and back dates coins that are struck in the future, they only forward date coins or have them dated the year of striking. So early 2025 coins are struck late in 2024, but 2024 coins are not struck in 2025 or later years. I can't recall the mint ever doing this in the modern era.
If I am correct, there will be individual coins and medals, with mintages similar to those of the 2024 FHs. I have been speculating that there will also be complete sets offered, based on nothing other than the fact that the Mint held back a specific portion of the authorized mintage of the both the gold FH coin and the silver FH medal.
Without rhyme or reason, and without prior notice. if I am correct, there will be 7500 sets of gold coins and 25,000 silver medals, in addition to individual offerings of each coin and medal to be made in the "Best of the Mint" series. Those sets will include the items held back in 2024.
In the past when the mint did the authorized mintage limit and product limit, it usually went at singles and sets, but this year with FH they didn't have that. So when all the authorized coins/medals were not struck, they still had the same authorized mintage, but decided to lower the product limit to reflect only what they struck. It is easy enough to follow.
There is no conspiracy, no extra coins/medals sitting around waiting for a surprise to return. It would be irresponsible of the mint to do that, since they have no way of knowing what gold prices do, and also because they already sold out the products and would be hurting past customers who bought them.
Also, the 2026 gold set is already at 10k in price, adding another 1 ounce gold coin takes it to 14k. There is no way the mint does that, a six coin gold set that only Bill Gates can afford. Yes, it would be a big surprise to pull out 7,500 Flowing Hair gold coins to add, and everyone would look at the price of the whole set and pass out.
I don't believe the medals they offer in 2026 will have much long-term value based on the designs they are putting out. All the juice will go into the gold coins. Many will try to put them on credit cards, so if they do 10k mintage then they will sell out again in three minutes and not a second longer. The flowing hair gold showed they can rise in value at 10k mintage.
We were not happy with 17.5k mintage for the FH gold coin. The mint probably read the message boards and under-struck them as a result. They also added the privy to the gold, which I am sure they are very happy with the results. I expect no FH coins but the mint to do a 250 privy for the 2026 dated coins and auction off 250 of them in sets. Why break what worked in 2024?
@Copperindian said:
No Buffalo 5C? How about Seated coinage of any kind? And Barbers? But the most disappointing to me? No IHC - it only had a 51 year run! Not good enough, it appears. I must have missed something; it appears I’m not alone!
Gobrecht dollar? Agree that the Buffalo nickel belongs there over the 1913 Liberty 5c shenanigans piece.
. Absolutely nothing stopped the Mint from revising the Mintage Limits downward, rather than just publishing a lower Product Limit, if they are, in fact, never going to release any more than have already been sold.
The mint can't lower the authorized mintage limit once it is published. I don't think they have ever done it before. It is only authorized, not mandated. Many times they under-struck authorized mintages (it happens every year with commemoratives.
PS I am pretty sure the FH coins and medals were created through already authorized legislation, and wasn't a special release. So they could do them yearly if they wanted.
SB didn't buy them this time. No reason to think they will in the future. And no, $10K for 3 ounces of gold does not lend itself to a SB auction the way $30K for one ounce does, so that's not really a possibility.
If my speculation is correct, 7,500 sets of gold coins will be marketed in the future. They will include the missing 2024 FH gold coins, that currently sell for $4600+ by themselves. There would be a vibrant market for such a set at pretty much whatever price the Mint sets, without help from SB. There will also be 25K sets of the related silver medals.
Stay tuned. I think it's a very real possibility.
I'm not sure if you are talking about only 7,500 sets of these in total, but based on past sales the High Relief UHR St Gaudens could do 25k alone, and the fractionals could sell for the less fortunate collectors. If this is an all or nothing proposition then many will not be able to afford the entire set, but many will buy to flip on credit card, since demand will far exceed supply. BTW the mint never goes and back dates coins that are struck in the future, they only forward date coins or have them dated the year of striking. So early 2025 coins are struck late in 2024, but 2024 coins are not struck in 2025 or later years. I can't recall the mint ever doing this in the modern era.
If I am correct, there will be individual coins and medals, with mintages similar to those of the 2024 FHs. I have been speculating that there will also be complete sets offered, based on nothing other than the fact that the Mint held back a specific portion of the authorized mintage of the both the gold FH coin and the silver FH medal.
Without rhyme or reason, and without prior notice. if I am correct, there will be 7500 sets of gold coins and 25,000 silver medals, in addition to individual offerings of each coin and medal to be made in the "Best of the Mint" series. Those sets will include the items held back in 2024.
In the past when the mint did the authorized mintage limit and product limit, it usually went at singles and sets, but this year with FH they didn't have that. So when all the authorized coins/medals were not struck, they still had the same authorized mintage, but decided to lower the product limit to reflect only what they struck. It is easy enough to follow.
There is no conspiracy, no extra coins/medals sitting around waiting for a surprise to return. It would be irresponsible of the mint to do that, since they have no way of knowing what gold prices do, and also because they already sold out the products and would be hurting past customers who bought them.
Also, the 2026 gold set is already at 10k in price, adding another 1 ounce gold coin takes it to 14k. There is no way the mint does that, a six coin gold set that only Bill Gates can afford. Yes, it would be a big surprise to pull out 7,500 Flowing Hair gold coins to add, and everyone would look at the price of the whole set and pass out.
I don't believe the medals they offer in 2026 will have much long-term value based on the designs they are putting out. All the juice will go into the gold coins. Many will try to put them on credit cards, so if they do 10k mintage then they will sell out again in three minutes and not a second longer. The flowing hair gold showed they can rise in value at 10k mintage.
We were not happy with 17.5k mintage for the FH gold coin. The mint probably read the message boards and under-struck them as a result. They also added the privy to the gold, which I am sure they are very happy with the results. I expect no FH coins but the mint to do a 250 privy for the 2026 dated coins and auction off 250 of them in sets. Why break what worked in 2024?
Nope. In the past, when the Mint had an unexpectedly quick sellout, with demand far exceeding expectations, the product was placed on Backorder, the Mint made more. The Mint has never just left money on the table for no reason.
Hurting past customers? So what?
The alternative right now is hurting customers who didn't chase a 10K mintage gold coin because they were led to believe it would be a 17.5K mintage. And people who wanted one at any mintage, but were shut out in a 4 minute sellout with 43% of the announced maximum mintage never seeing the light of day.
Not doing exactly what you say you are going to do always hurts someone. Making the missing items available in the future in another product is not a greater sin. It will just piss off a different subset of customers.
No way the Mint will sell a set of coins at a price few can afford? Tell that to everyone who watched them sell 230 coins, individually, for a minimum of $24,000 each. 🤣
Again, all the coins and medals will be offered individually. One additional coin and/or medal is not going to destroy the economics of whatever they do with respect to sets in 2026.
You might very well be right with respect to future privys. They have shown they will milk the cow as often as it has milk to give. Which is why you should not think for a minute that they read message boards and decided to short strike silver and gold FH product, after pricing it at such a premium, and THEN also refused to put them on Backorder after seeing the demand, if they did not already have plans for the missing coins and medals.
@MsMorrisine said:
don't know why they are doing the 1916 minor silver coinage again
do people want them a second time?
Who said they are doing that?
"July 4th, 2026 will mark the 250th anniversary of the signing of the Declaration of Independence and our country’s Semiquincentennial (Semi-Q) anniversary. To celebrate this significant milestone, the U.S. Mint will be redesigning select circulating coin designs for 2026 and release a “Best of the Mint” coin collection that reflects the rich numismatic history of the United States.
While the final coin designs are being determined, we’ll be taking you behind the scenes to show you how a historic redesign like this comes to life."
"In November 2023, the public helped kickstart the redesign process by ranking 21 historic coins issued by the U.S. Mint over the last 250 years."
They are not going to be making anywhere near all 21 coins. I am quite sure they are not going to repeat anything they did in the recent past when there are so many other worthy contenders.
The Walking Liberty Half and St. Gaudens Double Eagle are featured in the group. Do you think they'll be part of the "Best of the Mint" too? How about the 2017 American Liberty High Relief Gold coin? 🤣
@NJCoin said:
Nope. In the past, when the Mint had an unexpectedly quick sellout, with demand far exceeding expectations, the product was placed on Backorder, the Mint made more. The Mint has never just left money on the table for no reason.
I'm afraid you left out one little detail, and that is the time of year that the quick sell-out occurs. A sellout in April is one thing, they can order more packaging, strike more coins and fill more orders.
A sell-out on November 17th is too late to order more packaging and strike more coins. They are already fully- booked to striking 2025 dated coins by then.
This has happened in the past, where they release coins late in the year and they were under-struck. Many of us collectors hope it happens.
Yes, they are candidates. But your points are 1,000,000% correct. No way they are going to do a Mercury Dime, when they did it in 2016, and do it every year for the palladium coins, when there are so many other classic coins to choose from.
Same for anything else that is the current subject of an annual series, or was done in the recent past. Because you are right. There are other choices no one has seen in over 100 years. Or 200 years. Those will be the winners, because those will be the things people will be willing to pay up for.
@MsMorrisine said:
don't know why they are doing the 1916 minor silver coinage again
do people want them a second time?
The coin selection is odd to me too, also the fact they are doing silver medals instead of coins.
The affordable thing to do would have been both gold and silver for classics, as not everyone can afford 10k to buy gold. The gold coin designs should have reflected past gold coin designs only, and they should have done silver coins that reflected past silver coin designs. cents, nickels, dimes quarters, etc. They should have done all native head coins in gold. Also do a set of classic designs in silver and they would sell-out easily. Instead it sounds like only gold and silver companion medals so far are planned.
. Absolutely nothing stopped the Mint from revising the Mintage Limits downward, rather than just publishing a lower Product Limit, if they are, in fact, never going to release any more than have already been sold.
The mint can't lower the authorized mintage limit once it is published. I don't think they have ever done it before. It is only authorized, not mandated. Many times they under-struck authorized mintages (it happens every year with commemoratives.
PS I am pretty sure the FH coins and medals were created through already authorized legislation, and wasn't a special release. So they could do them yearly if they wanted.
Why not? But they can publish a lower Product Limit after the fact?
Sorry, they can absolutely lower a limit. They just can't raise one.
If everyone is right and the missing coins never see the light of day, that's exactly what they did. No reason at all they would be prohibited from publishing it.
But you are correct insofar as they have never done it before. They also never didn't put an item on Backorder when they underestimated demand and have the authority to make more.
They have never been more interested in supporting the secondary market than in satisfying customer demand, up to the authorized mintage, and collecting the premium attached to each and every coin they are authorized to make and sell. Until now, if I am wrong and everyone else is right. I'm sorry, but it is simply not resonating with me.
As I've said umpteen times, not producing to a limit because they cannot sell them is very different from not producing to a limit when they have a 4 minute first day sellout. This really should go without saying, but apparently it does not, since people keep pointing to an apple to justify an orange.
@NJCoin said:
Nope. In the past, when the Mint had an unexpectedly quick sellout, with demand far exceeding expectations, the product was placed on Backorder, the Mint made more. The Mint has never just left money on the table for no reason.
I'm afraid you left out one little detail, and that is the time of year that the quick sell-out occurs. A sellout in April is one thing, they can order more packaging, strike more coins and fill more orders.
A sell-out on November 17th is too late to order more packaging and strike more coins. They are already fully- booked to striking 2025 dated coins by then.
This has happened in the past, where they release coins late in the year and they were under-struck. Many of us collectors hope it happens.
When? When have they ever had a Day One or Day Two sellout, at any time of the year, and not placed the item on Backorder? Until now, with this?
Fully booked? Because you work at the Mint, and you know how long it takes to crank out 5,000, 10,000, 25,000, of anything?
You're acting like it's weeks or months, not hours or days. And like they work 24/7, so they couldn't possibly squeeze out another 7500 coins to net the US Treasury another $7.5 million in profit if the opportunity presented itself.
Because no one even considered the possibility, and yet they didn't just set the Mintage Limit at the number they knew they were going to make, when they also knew they couldn't possibly make more. No matter what, because they are "fully booked." 🤣
What collectors typically hope for at the end of the year is for sleepers to be pulled from sale with low mintages. Commemoratives, burnished AGEs, etc.
But those items typically sit for months, unloved and unsold, until people focus on them at the end of the year, at which point no more are made.
This never happens with something under produced and sold out immediately after being placed on sale. Never. Until now. That is precisely what Backorder is for, unless the Mint correctly anticipates a sellout, and produces the entire authorized mintage up front.
I'm good with BOM "MS" Gold this time around('26)...They'll all have a Privy too...
"During the CCAC meeting, Mint officials indicated their plan to offer 1-year-only Best of Mint 2026 Gold Coins, which will:
*Be composed of 24k gold.
*Faithfully represent the original historic designs.
*Feature their original dates of issue.
*Come in fractional formats that approximate the size of the original coins (1oz., 1/2oz., 1/4oz., and 1/10oz.).
*Have an uncirculated finish.
*Feature a semiquincentennial privy mark showcasing the Liberty Bell and the numerals "250." "
@MsMorrisine said:
don't know why they are doing the 1916 minor silver coinage again
do people want them a second time?
The coin selection is odd to me too, also the fact they are doing silver medals instead of coins.
The affordable thing to do would have been both gold and silver for classics, as not everyone can afford 10k to buy gold. The gold coin designs should have reflected past gold coin designs only, and they should have done silver coins that reflected past silver coin designs. cents, nickels, dimes quarters, etc. They should have done all native head coins in gold. Also do a set of classic designs in silver and they would sell-out easily. Instead it sounds like only gold and silver companion medals so far are planned.
Silver medals have been discussed ad nauseam before. They apparently have Congressional authority to do whatever they want in gold, but cannot make a silver coin without specific Congressional authorization.
Rather than going to the trouble to get that, they just do medals, which they can do with no Congressional action. That's why everything in silver, other than ASEs, the Congressionally authorized annual commemoratives, and the annual proof sets, are medals, not coins.
I guess they could seek authority for these, but the FHs and American Liberty series have shown they can sell medals, so there really is no need, in spite of the preference of some. So they make gold coins because they can, and silver companion medals for those who want to participate but don't want to pay up for gold.
When? When have they ever had a Day One or Day Two sellout, at any time of the year, and not placed the item on Backorder? Until now, with this?
>
It happened with early silver eagle congratulations sets. The coin dealers cornered the market on them as the mint didn't make any more, and the prices went way up with the special labels.
When? When have they ever had a Day One or Day Two sellout, at any time of the year, and not placed the item on Backorder? Until now, with this?
>
It happened with early silver eagle congratulations sets. The coin dealers cornered the market on them as the mint didn't make any more, and the prices went way up with the special labels.
Did it? I thought the Product Limits were always extremely low on those, and that people just weren't paying attention until they were gone.
Because no one thought anyone would care about a label on a coin that wasn't otherwise unique. Until the dealers marketed them. Pretty sure you are wrong about a no limit product just not being produced in spite of demand.
In any event, the Product Limit for 2025 is pretty small now, at 55K, but people have moved on and no one cares about them anymore, because they are the exact same coin as the unlimited mintage proof ASE, and people have moved past the package and/or label. The 2024s are still available with the same 55K Product Limit.
@MsMorrisine said:
thinking of the fh privy issues, would the mint leave money on the table by not having 250 special privy issues bearing "250"
they must be thinking of selling cancelled dies again
You might very well be right. If not, it will be out of fear of killing the golden goose by going to the well too often. Not because they now love leaving money on the table.
I guess they could seek authority for these, but the FHs and American Liberty series have shown they can sell medals, so there really is no need, in spite of the preference of some. So they make gold coins because they can, and silver companion medals for those who want to participate but don't want to pay up for gold.
>
I can only give you my opinion, and I think again you are are missing the fact that medals cannot have a denomination on them. Since the original flowing hair coins had no denomination, a medal was appropriate for silver.
However if they do a medal of a coin design that originally had a denomination, it would not be an accurate representation. And yes, that matters a great deal. This is why they can do medals for the coins up to 1804 that didn't have a denomination with medals, but not after that year. If the mint thinks I am wrong, they can try and find out. Collectors will not buy like they did the flowing hair design.
Originally many dealers were weary of a medal for the flow hair coin but when they saw it as a medal it made sense for the design.
But they can publish a lower Product Limit after the fact?
Yes they can, and yes they did. They wanted to let everyone know that they had limited the product to a lower number.
Right. And "limiting the product to a lower number" without ever making more IS reducing the Mintage Limit. Where is it written that they are prohibited from doing THAT, if that is indeed what they are doing?
Mintage Limits are written in stone, while Product Limits are flexible at will? I'm sorry, but I don't think so. 🤣
Because no one thought anyone would care about a label on a coin that wasn't otherwise unique. Until the dealers marketed them. Pretty sure you are wrong about a no limit product just not being produced in spite of demand.
Look up past sales of 2013, 2014, and 2015 congratulation silver eagles, a set of three in PF69 sold for $2550.
Mintage Limits are written in stone, while Product Limits are flexible at will? I'm sorry, but I don't think so. 🤣
Yes, that is how it is and the mint proved it with the Flowing Hair coins. You can laugh as much as you like. Authorizing legislation usually has mintage limits attached. It will say up a certain number, but no more. That is what the mint does.
Because no one thought anyone would care about a label on a coin that wasn't otherwise unique. Until the dealers marketed them. Pretty sure you are wrong about a no limit product just not being produced in spite of demand.
Look up past sales of 2013, 2014, and 2015 congratulation silver eagles, a set of three in PF69 sold for $2550.
Understood. Doesn't matter. What matters is whether they had no Product Limit, and the Mint just refused to make more after they sold out, or if they had low Product Limits that people just didn't care about at the time, because there was nothing unique about the coins. I'm 100% sure it's the latter.
How many 2013, 2014 and 2015 Congratulations sets were produced? As I recall, it was something like 30K. Were the coins unique, or were they the same West Mint coins made in unlimited quantities? Because the Mint only made 55K 2024 sets, and you can still get as many as you want in OGP from the Mint.
I guess they could seek authority for these, but the FHs and American Liberty series have shown they can sell medals, so there really is no need, in spite of the preference of some. So they make gold coins because they can, and silver companion medals for those who want to participate but don't want to pay up for gold.
>
I can only give you my opinion, and I think again you are are missing the fact that medals cannot have a denomination on them. Since the original flowing hair coins had no denomination, a medal was appropriate for silver.
However if they do a medal of a coin design that originally had a denomination, it would not be an accurate representation. And yes, that matters a great deal. This is why they can do medals for the coins up to 1804 that didn't have a denomination with medals, but not after that year. If the mint thinks I am wrong, they can try and find out. Collectors will not buy like they did the flowing hair design.
Originally many dealers were weary of a medal for the flow hair coin but when they saw it as a medal it made sense for the design.
Then I don't know what to tell you. Other than the mintages will be low, and we'll have a winner. Because this is what they do now. It won't have a denomination. People will either buy them or they won't.
The Mint doesn't think you are wrong. They just don't care. They have authority to make medals, not coins, so that's what they make. I don't understand why either, but it is what it is. And it isn't changing anytime soon.
Mintage Limits are written in stone, while Product Limits are flexible at will? I'm sorry, but I don't think so. 🤣
Yes, that is how it is and the mint proved it with the Flowing Hair coins. You can laugh as much as you like. Authorizing legislation usually has mintage limits attached. It will say up a certain number, but no more. That is what the mint does.
No authorizing legislation with any of these. The Mint has standing authority to make any gold coins it wants. In whatever quantities it wants.
They set the authorized mintage. They can revise it. Just like they did with the Product Limit. They just chose not to. I think I know why. We'll see who's laughing if/when the missing coins turn up in 2026. 🤣
Understood. Doesn't matter. What matters is whether they had no Product Limit, and the Mint just refused to make more after they sold out, or if they had low Product Limits that people just didn't care about at the time, because there was nothing unique about the coins. I'm 100% sure it's the latter.
I believe that the mint director did seem to suggest another coin would be released in 2026 as a 230th anniversary, and that would have to be the Draped Bust. So if the flowing hair comes back it would be a set with that second coin. That is your only hope.
Understood. Doesn't matter. What matters is whether they had no Product Limit, and the Mint just refused to make more after they sold out, or if they had low Product Limits that people just didn't care about at the time, because there was nothing unique about the coins. I'm 100% sure it's the latter.
I believe that the mint director did seem to suggest another coin would be released in 2026 as a 230th anniversary, and that would have to be the Draped Bust. So if the flowing hair comes back it would be a set with that second coin. That is your only hope.
We will see if it happens.
Thanks. I am actually not "hoping" for anything. Except, now, I guess, to be right.
I never really thought about how, where, and paired with what the coins might turn up. I'm just speculating that they didn't short strike due to an inability to produce, an inability to secure packaging, a desire to support the secondary market, etc..
So I thought pairing them with related coins to be released in 2026 was a logical conclusion. We'll see. Draped Bust works for me.
In fact, anything, paired with at least one other item, in order to constitute a product separate and distinct from the standalone coin and medal, with a quantity of 7500 in gold and 25K in silver, will work. Could even be a Congratulations Set, no?
@HalfDime said:
Yes they will have to approve the designs next year for a 2026 230th Draped Bust anniversary coin and medal, so we will know if it happens.
I'm sure they will be produced. The tell tale will be if they have Product Limits below the authorized mintages corresponding to the missing 7.5K and 25K from 2024.
We won't know that until they publish a product page, if then. We didn't learn about the reduced Product Limits in 2024 until after the respective sellouts.
Maybe I will get to own an 1804 dollar! Been waiting for 60 years. My worn out 1965 Red Book that was originally my Dad's listed the Idler 1804 dollar selling in 1961 for $29,000. A 1916-D dime was $82.50 in good.
@Coin Finder said:
Are they going to do edge privy's and then colorize them?, it doesn't say...
I know you're kidding but would anyone be surprised if they did? The US Mint will use any gimmick no matter how tacky to separate collectors from their money.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
That is going to be quite a year. On top of this announced release it will also be the 40 year anniversary of the AGE and ASE programs as well as the 20 year anniversary for the gold buffalo's.
@MsMorrisine said:
Capn defends the legality of dcarr's work
Except for the 1964-D Peace Dollars, because Mint-made 1964-D Peace Dollars WERE IN IRREFUTABLE FACT STRUCK!
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Comments
If the past year has shown anything, it's that nothing is ever a lock with the Mint. Lots of unsatisfied demand, untapped authorized mintages, and no more FH product in 2024. Nothing is a lock.
OTOH, you can have as many 2024 Morgan and Peace Dollars as you can handle, in 6 different flavors. Below issue price in OGP in some iterations from some dealers. Even on TV.
Precious metal prices, sales of other products, supply chains, planchet availability, the alignment of the stars, and the whims of decision makers at the Mint will dictate what happens 18 months from now. Nothing is a lock.
Does anyone have a link to the US Mint website page that has the information about these? Thank you.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
In the past when the mint did the authorized mintage limit and product limit, it usually went at singles and sets, but this year with FH they didn't have that. So when all the authorized coins/medals were not struck, they still had the same authorized mintage, but decided to lower the product limit to reflect only what they struck. It is easy enough to follow.
There is no conspiracy, no extra coins/medals sitting around waiting for a surprise to return. It would be irresponsible of the mint to do that, since they have no way of knowing what gold prices do, and also because they already sold out the products and would be hurting past customers who bought them.
Also, the 2026 gold set is already at 10k in price, adding another 1 ounce gold coin takes it to 14k. There is no way the mint does that, a six coin gold set that only Bill Gates can afford. Yes, it would be a big surprise to pull out 7,500 Flowing Hair gold coins to add, and everyone would look at the price of the whole set and pass out.
I don't believe the medals they offer in 2026 will have much long-term value based on the designs they are putting out. All the juice will go into the gold coins. Many will try to put them on credit cards, so if they do 10k mintage then they will sell out again in three minutes and not a second longer. The flowing hair gold showed they can rise in value at 10k mintage.
We were not happy with 17.5k mintage for the FH gold coin. The mint probably read the message boards and under-struck them as a result. They also added the privy to the gold, which I am sure they are very happy with the results. I expect no FH coins but the mint to do a 250 privy for the 2026 dated coins and auction off 250 of them in sets. Why break what worked in 2024?
Gobrecht dollar? Agree that the Buffalo nickel belongs there over the 1913 Liberty 5c shenanigans piece.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
with all the complaints about the commemorative program, those are part of a seemingly infinite series
with these part of an every 50 years set, these will be collected more as a special, patriotic theme and the unique designs will draw in collectors
. Absolutely nothing stopped the Mint from revising the Mintage Limits downward, rather than just publishing a lower Product Limit, if they are, in fact, never going to release any more than have already been sold.
The mint can't lower the authorized mintage limit once it is published. I don't think they have ever done it before. It is only authorized, not mandated. Many times they under-struck authorized mintages (it happens every year with commemoratives.
PS I am pretty sure the FH coins and medals were created through already authorized legislation, and wasn't a special release. So they could do them yearly if they wanted.
"Does anyone have a link to the US Mint website page that has the information about these? Thank you."
https://www.usmint.gov/coins/coin-programs/semiquincentennial/?srsltid=AfmBOoo6jJrp8jjZQO2J_ZfSSbK7ycTZWtDmqWWSCBQC9RWLGpXvdxlr
.
https://www.coinnews.net/2024/03/01/best-of-the-mint-2026-semiquincentennial-gold-coins-revealed/
Nope. In the past, when the Mint had an unexpectedly quick sellout, with demand far exceeding expectations, the product was placed on Backorder, the Mint made more. The Mint has never just left money on the table for no reason.
Hurting past customers? So what?
The alternative right now is hurting customers who didn't chase a 10K mintage gold coin because they were led to believe it would be a 17.5K mintage. And people who wanted one at any mintage, but were shut out in a 4 minute sellout with 43% of the announced maximum mintage never seeing the light of day.
Not doing exactly what you say you are going to do always hurts someone. Making the missing items available in the future in another product is not a greater sin. It will just piss off a different subset of customers.
No way the Mint will sell a set of coins at a price few can afford? Tell that to everyone who watched them sell 230 coins, individually, for a minimum of $24,000 each. 🤣
Again, all the coins and medals will be offered individually. One additional coin and/or medal is not going to destroy the economics of whatever they do with respect to sets in 2026.
You might very well be right with respect to future privys. They have shown they will milk the cow as often as it has milk to give. Which is why you should not think for a minute that they read message boards and decided to short strike silver and gold FH product, after pricing it at such a premium, and THEN also refused to put them on Backorder after seeing the demand, if they did not already have plans for the missing coins and medals.
don't know why they are doing the 1916 minor silver coinage again
do people want them a second time?
how about a 2026-d merc, tho?
Who said they are doing that?
"July 4th, 2026 will mark the 250th anniversary of the signing of the Declaration of Independence and our country’s Semiquincentennial (Semi-Q) anniversary. To celebrate this significant milestone, the U.S. Mint will be redesigning select circulating coin designs for 2026 and release a “Best of the Mint” coin collection that reflects the rich numismatic history of the United States.
While the final coin designs are being determined, we’ll be taking you behind the scenes to show you how a historic redesign like this comes to life."
"In November 2023, the public helped kickstart the redesign process by ranking 21 historic coins issued by the U.S. Mint over the last 250 years."
They are not going to be making anywhere near all 21 coins. I am quite sure they are not going to repeat anything they did in the recent past when there are so many other worthy contenders.
The Walking Liberty Half and St. Gaudens Double Eagle are featured in the group. Do you think they'll be part of the "Best of the Mint" too? How about the 2017 American Liberty High Relief Gold coin? 🤣
I'm afraid you left out one little detail, and that is the time of year that the quick sell-out occurs. A sellout in April is one thing, they can order more packaging, strike more coins and fill more orders.
A sell-out on November 17th is too late to order more packaging and strike more coins. They are already fully- booked to striking 2025 dated coins by then.
This has happened in the past, where they release coins late in the year and they were under-struck. Many of us collectors hope it happens.
aren't they candidates?
Yes, they are candidates. But your points are 1,000,000% correct. No way they are going to do a Mercury Dime, when they did it in 2016, and do it every year for the palladium coins, when there are so many other classic coins to choose from.
Same for anything else that is the current subject of an annual series, or was done in the recent past. Because you are right. There are other choices no one has seen in over 100 years. Or 200 years. Those will be the winners, because those will be the things people will be willing to pay up for.
pc?
The coin selection is odd to me too, also the fact they are doing silver medals instead of coins.
The affordable thing to do would have been both gold and silver for classics, as not everyone can afford 10k to buy gold. The gold coin designs should have reflected past gold coin designs only, and they should have done silver coins that reflected past silver coin designs. cents, nickels, dimes quarters, etc. They should have done all native head coins in gold. Also do a set of classic designs in silver and they would sell-out easily. Instead it sounds like only gold and silver companion medals so far are planned.
Why not? But they can publish a lower Product Limit after the fact?
Sorry, they can absolutely lower a limit. They just can't raise one.
If everyone is right and the missing coins never see the light of day, that's exactly what they did. No reason at all they would be prohibited from publishing it.
But you are correct insofar as they have never done it before. They also never didn't put an item on Backorder when they underestimated demand and have the authority to make more.
They have never been more interested in supporting the secondary market than in satisfying customer demand, up to the authorized mintage, and collecting the premium attached to each and every coin they are authorized to make and sell. Until now, if I am wrong and everyone else is right. I'm sorry, but it is simply not resonating with me.
As I've said umpteen times, not producing to a limit because they cannot sell them is very different from not producing to a limit when they have a 4 minute first day sellout. This really should go without saying, but apparently it does not, since people keep pointing to an apple to justify an orange.
When? When have they ever had a Day One or Day Two sellout, at any time of the year, and not placed the item on Backorder? Until now, with this?
Fully booked? Because you work at the Mint, and you know how long it takes to crank out 5,000, 10,000, 25,000, of anything?
You're acting like it's weeks or months, not hours or days. And like they work 24/7, so they couldn't possibly squeeze out another 7500 coins to net the US Treasury another $7.5 million in profit if the opportunity presented itself.
Because no one even considered the possibility, and yet they didn't just set the Mintage Limit at the number they knew they were going to make, when they also knew they couldn't possibly make more. No matter what, because they are "fully booked." 🤣
What collectors typically hope for at the end of the year is for sleepers to be pulled from sale with low mintages. Commemoratives, burnished AGEs, etc.
But those items typically sit for months, unloved and unsold, until people focus on them at the end of the year, at which point no more are made.
This never happens with something under produced and sold out immediately after being placed on sale. Never. Until now. That is precisely what Backorder is for, unless the Mint correctly anticipates a sellout, and produces the entire authorized mintage up front.
But they can publish a lower Product Limit after the fact?
Yes they can, and yes they did. They wanted to let everyone know that they had limited the product to a lower number.
mintage limits, except when required by law, are at the mint's discretion
how could the mintage limits for the 250th issues and bom be determined so they know what they want to mint?
I'm good with BOM "MS" Gold this time around('26)...They'll all have a Privy too...
"During the CCAC meeting, Mint officials indicated their plan to offer 1-year-only Best of Mint 2026 Gold Coins, which will:
*Be composed of 24k gold.
*Faithfully represent the original historic designs.
*Feature their original dates of issue.
*Come in fractional formats that approximate the size of the original coins (1oz., 1/2oz., 1/4oz., and 1/10oz.).
*Have an uncirculated finish.
*Feature a semiquincentennial privy mark showcasing the Liberty Bell and the numerals "250." "
thinking of the fh privy issues, would the mint leave money on the table by not having 250 special privy issues bearing "250"
they must be thinking of selling cancelled dies again
Silver medals have been discussed ad nauseam before. They apparently have Congressional authority to do whatever they want in gold, but cannot make a silver coin without specific Congressional authorization.
Rather than going to the trouble to get that, they just do medals, which they can do with no Congressional action. That's why everything in silver, other than ASEs, the Congressionally authorized annual commemoratives, and the annual proof sets, are medals, not coins.
I guess they could seek authority for these, but the FHs and American Liberty series have shown they can sell medals, so there really is no need, in spite of the preference of some. So they make gold coins because they can, and silver companion medals for those who want to participate but don't want to pay up for gold.
>
It happened with early silver eagle congratulations sets. The coin dealers cornered the market on them as the mint didn't make any more, and the prices went way up with the special labels.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Did it? I thought the Product Limits were always extremely low on those, and that people just weren't paying attention until they were gone.
Because no one thought anyone would care about a label on a coin that wasn't otherwise unique. Until the dealers marketed them. Pretty sure you are wrong about a no limit product just not being produced in spite of demand.
In any event, the Product Limit for 2025 is pretty small now, at 55K, but people have moved on and no one cares about them anymore, because they are the exact same coin as the unlimited mintage proof ASE, and people have moved past the package and/or label. The 2024s are still available with the same 55K Product Limit.
You might very well be right. If not, it will be out of fear of killing the golden goose by going to the well too often. Not because they now love leaving money on the table.
>
I can only give you my opinion, and I think again you are are missing the fact that medals cannot have a denomination on them. Since the original flowing hair coins had no denomination, a medal was appropriate for silver.
However if they do a medal of a coin design that originally had a denomination, it would not be an accurate representation. And yes, that matters a great deal. This is why they can do medals for the coins up to 1804 that didn't have a denomination with medals, but not after that year. If the mint thinks I am wrong, they can try and find out. Collectors will not buy like they did the flowing hair design.
Originally many dealers were weary of a medal for the flow hair coin but when they saw it as a medal it made sense for the design.
Right. And "limiting the product to a lower number" without ever making more IS reducing the Mintage Limit. Where is it written that they are prohibited from doing THAT, if that is indeed what they are doing?
Mintage Limits are written in stone, while Product Limits are flexible at will? I'm sorry, but I don't think so. 🤣
Look up past sales of 2013, 2014, and 2015 congratulation silver eagles, a set of three in PF69 sold for $2550.
Yes, that is how it is and the mint proved it with the Flowing Hair coins.
You can laugh as much as you like. Authorizing legislation usually has mintage limits attached. It will say up a certain number, but no more. That is what the mint does.
Understood. Doesn't matter. What matters is whether they had no Product Limit, and the Mint just refused to make more after they sold out, or if they had low Product Limits that people just didn't care about at the time, because there was nothing unique about the coins. I'm 100% sure it's the latter.
How many 2013, 2014 and 2015 Congratulations sets were produced? As I recall, it was something like 30K. Were the coins unique, or were they the same West Mint coins made in unlimited quantities? Because the Mint only made 55K 2024 sets, and you can still get as many as you want in OGP from the Mint.
Then I don't know what to tell you. Other than the mintages will be low, and we'll have a winner. Because this is what they do now. It won't have a denomination. People will either buy them or they won't.
The Mint doesn't think you are wrong. They just don't care. They have authority to make medals, not coins, so that's what they make. I don't understand why either, but it is what it is. And it isn't changing anytime soon.
No authorizing legislation with any of these. The Mint has standing authority to make any gold coins it wants. In whatever quantities it wants.
They set the authorized mintage. They can revise it. Just like they did with the Product Limit. They just chose not to. I think I know why. We'll see who's laughing if/when the missing coins turn up in 2026. 🤣
I believe that the mint director did seem to suggest another coin would be released in 2026 as a 230th anniversary, and that would have to be the Draped Bust. So if the flowing hair comes back it would be a set with that second coin. That is your only hope.
We will see if it happens.
Thanks. I am actually not "hoping" for anything. Except, now, I guess, to be right.
I never really thought about how, where, and paired with what the coins might turn up. I'm just speculating that they didn't short strike due to an inability to produce, an inability to secure packaging, a desire to support the secondary market, etc..
So I thought pairing them with related coins to be released in 2026 was a logical conclusion. We'll see. Draped Bust works for me.
In fact, anything, paired with at least one other item, in order to constitute a product separate and distinct from the standalone coin and medal, with a quantity of 7500 in gold and 25K in silver, will work. Could even be a Congratulations Set, no?
Yes they will have to approve the designs next year for a 2026 230th Draped Bust anniversary coin and medal, so we will know if it happens.
I'm sure they will be produced. The tell tale will be if they have Product Limits below the authorized mintages corresponding to the missing 7.5K and 25K from 2024.
We won't know that until they publish a product page, if then. We didn't learn about the reduced Product Limits in 2024 until after the respective sellouts.
Right on the nose..............
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
Going wayyyy back, I think Tom has always hated the Gallery Mint products, Moonlight mint output, and the like. I imagine something to do with that.
Capn defends the legality of dcarr's work
Fantasy tokens? RGDS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Maybe I will get to own an 1804 dollar! Been waiting for 60 years. My worn out 1965 Red Book that was originally my Dad's listed the Idler 1804 dollar selling in 1961 for $29,000. A 1916-D dime was $82.50 in good.
So educating the dedicated and casual Mint modern buyer on historically significant products is a negative and repugnant?
Potentially increasing demand and thus values of the classic series and the holdings and selling material is wrong and abhorrent?
Look at the bright side of this Mint release....there's a bright side.
The 1804 Gold piece will go nicely with my FH gold. Sure, cost vs. value matters, but in this case it will not matter. Done deal.
Are they going to do edge privy's and then colorize them?, it doesn't say...
I know you're kidding but would anyone be surprised if they did? The US Mint will use any gimmick no matter how tacky to separate collectors from their money.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
That is going to be quite a year. On top of this announced release it will also be the 40 year anniversary of the AGE and ASE programs as well as the 20 year anniversary for the gold buffalo's.
Except for the 1964-D Peace Dollars, because Mint-made 1964-D Peace Dollars WERE IN IRREFUTABLE FACT STRUCK!
TD