Bust Dime Cuds - Post Your Pics (and help with this table!)
Bikergeek
Posts: 489 ✭✭✭✭✭
A cud happens when a piece of a die breaks away. Coins minted with such a die show partial or complete loss of details as metal flows up into this broken part during striking. I’m helping Dr. Glenn Peterson in his research into cuds on Capped Bust dimes. This post presents the proposed table of bust dime cuds by date and JR (“John Reich”) numbers, along with plenty of pics. We invite YOU to share your opinions, questions, and photos of cud bust dimes! (Send via PM or better yet, post in the thread). You may also reach Glenn directly at gpeters AT tds DOT net.
Cuds can affect the obverse, reverse, or even the edge (collar cuds). For our purposes, internal die breaks will be called cuds (although some folks hold the stricter definition that cuds involve the rim). I’ll update this table with any additions or corrections.
First, a few pics: Glenn wrote an article in the John Reich Journal about this 1833 JR-6 with retained cud at ATES OF.
1820 JR-10 with cud NITE
1825 JR-1 with cud Star 5-6
1825 JR-3 with cud at Star 3-4
1830 JR-3 with obverse cud at cap and reverse cuds at NITE, IC
Glenn owns this 1828 JR-1 with the pre cud chip at M. The reference Bust Dime Variety Identification Guide by Zack, Scuderi, and Sherrill shows a later die state with an internal cud from A2 to Scroll. Has anyone seen a later die state with cud involving the rim?
Last note for now: there are bust dimes with die bulges that may resemble cuds, but are not cuds. If you aren’t sure what you have, post it here and we can all check it out!
New website: Groovycoins.com Capped Bust Half Dime registry set: Bikergeek CBHD LM Set
Comments
1825 JR-4
A: The year they spend more on their library than their coin collection.
A numismatist is judged more on the content of their library than the content of their cabinet.
That is a very rare cud! I've only seen one before and it sold very quickly.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
Thanks @BustDMs! Cool coin. Any disagreements with the table? I'd like to see a estimated cud rarity chart for the dimes, same as exists for the capped bust half dimes...
New website: Groovycoins.com Capped Bust Half Dime registry set: Bikergeek CBHD LM Set
Remember: bust dime cuds are cool. TTT!
New website: Groovycoins.com Capped Bust Half Dime registry set: Bikergeek CBHD LM Set
Ok, ok...
Seated Dollar Collection
Thanks @Southcounty! Can you tell me what year (and JR# if you know it) those are?
New website: Groovycoins.com Capped Bust Half Dime registry set: Bikergeek CBHD LM Set
Very cool, keep going
Mr_Spud
Thankyou to Southcounty for the pictures of the 1835 JR 2's This is gpeters the one working on the article for JRCS on Bust Dimes. I am trying to get good photos for the article and re-evaluate previous rarity ratings. Previous references suggested a rarity rating for 1835 JR 2 cud to be R7. Your two examples and my PCGS#33415095 XF 40 grade example suggest a rarity rating less than R7. DO you or others have a more accurate estimate?
Anyone have comments about whether the 32 cud dimes listed above is correct?
gpeters
I think that this is a 1835 JR-3 cud. Comments welcome.
Sunshine Rare Coins
sunshinecoins.com/store/c1/Featured_Products.html
I don’t have any comments but just want to say
HI GLENN!!!!!!
Welcome to the forum 👋
BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.
I have a general feel for some of the bust dime cuds that I tend to run across more than others, but to extrapolate R values based on that would be a big jump. Starting with some previous estimates and running a JRCS census would likely be our best bet to try and get a better feel for the rarity estimates. However, there are so many states, or stages, for many of these that it might be difficult to get everyone to agree on which stage they are referencing.
Here is an 1834 JR-5 that I purchased off of ebay in a low grade group specifically for this cud starting at the bottom of the date. It might not be as complete and clear as some of the other known examples, but I hadn't run across any previously and the price for the cull group was a steal. I sent it to PCGS to be graded, attributed, and TrueViewed.
Seated Dollar Collection
Here's an 1830 UNI CUD. I think it to be a JR-1, but not completely sure.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Any chance this has a reverse cud at STATES and below ARROWS or more than likely just damage. Only photo I have.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Here's my 1833 JR-4 CBDime. Not the greatest condition, but I like it.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
1831 JR-6 and 1833 JR-4, 1835 JR-3
That's it, that's all I have. I no longer own the 1835 JR-3.
Hi from GPeters. I had an enjoyable visit at the FUN show and the Numismatic high point was viewing the Bust Dime CUDS of the Jim Matthews collection which will be sold by Dave Perkins later this year. Jim has found the five Bust Dime cuds that I have not found and I got to see 4 of these 5 (The other was at PCGS for regrading) He believed that two of those were R8 rarity. I am still working on writing the article on the Bust Dime cuds and am seeking forum members opinion whether I got the the listing of 32 known cuds is correct If anyone knows of another cud or disagrees with my listing above please contact me.
Jesbroken nice cherry the 1830 JR 1 cud UNI and 1833 JR 4. The 1832 I do not believe it is a cud Southland nice cherry 1834 JR 5 very rare. Even more rare, Stephank, is the 1831 JR 6. I heard a prior estimate of two known before seeing this photo. May I have your permission, Stephank, to use your photo in my article. Mine is a VG scratched.
GPeters
Hi Glenn, great seeing you at the FUN show!
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
@BHNC054 Absolutely, would be honor, I'd also send to you for better images, mine are not so good
acquired from another forum member -
Great coin!
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
From GPeters That is a beautiful 1831 JR 5 My draft says the 31 JR 5 cud is R 5 Any other opinions?
Does anyone else have an 1831 JR 6 with cud S 2-3? I am aware of just 3 (R8) Anyone have an 1831 JR 4 cud ED, CA?
Does anyone know of more cuds in Bust Dime die marriages other than those listed above?
GPeters
Great coin!
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
A: The year they spend more on their library than their coin collection.
A numismatist is judged more on the content of their library than the content of their cabinet.
A: The year they spend more on their library than their coin collection.
A numismatist is judged more on the content of their library than the content of their cabinet.
A: The year they spend more on their library than their coin collection.
A numismatist is judged more on the content of their library than the content of their cabinet.
A: The year they spend more on their library than their coin collection.
A numismatist is judged more on the content of their library than the content of their cabinet.
A: The year they spend more on their library than their coin collection.
A numismatist is judged more on the content of their library than the content of their cabinet.
A: The year they spend more on their library than their coin collection.
A numismatist is judged more on the content of their library than the content of their cabinet.
A: The year they spend more on their library than their coin collection.
A numismatist is judged more on the content of their library than the content of their cabinet.
A: The year they spend more on their library than their coin collection.
A numismatist is judged more on the content of their library than the content of their cabinet.
A: The year they spend more on their library than their coin collection.
A numismatist is judged more on the content of their library than the content of their cabinet.
1811/09, NGC F12 with obverse cud at cap.
Sorry, that is not a cud but likely a die bulge which is commonly mistaken for a cud on lower grade coins.
A: The year they spend more on their library than their coin collection.
A numismatist is judged more on the content of their library than the content of their cabinet.
Wow @BustDMs thats a great set of dime cuds! You must have been collecting them for a long time.
Accumulating them for a few years now.
Helped build a much better collection years ago that we sold.
A: The year they spend more on their library than their coin collection.
A numismatist is judged more on the content of their library than the content of their cabinet.
Interesting dimes.
When I read the title I thought I have a bust dime with a cud.
But then not as the OP specifies capped and mine faces to the right (not left).
https://youtube.com/watch?v=wwmUMvhy-lY - Pink Me And Bobby McGee
.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=D0FPxuQv2ns - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Maybe I'm Amazed
RLJ 1958 - 2023
POST IT ANYWAY!
A: The year they spend more on their library than their coin collection.
A numismatist is judged more on the content of their library than the content of their cabinet.
Question for @Bikergeek and @BHNC054 if available. I picked up this 1831(heavily damaged and worn) that I would like your opinion on as to the die cracks on the Obverse, I see the Reverse UNI die crack but the obverse seems like it may have the S2/S3 die crack and possibly an S8-S10 die crack, but maybe just damage. I don't have a decent book for CBDimes and feel the coin may be a JR2 or JR5. A appreciate your opinions and any other who care to comment.
Thanks,
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Your coin is a JR5.
I have the Davis, et al book, and the JR2 dies are in early die states - the reverse does not have the crack/cud over UNI.
@jesbroken I agree with @yosclimber that you have a JR-5 there. Regarding the obverse - I'm going to have to ascribe that appearance to damage and wear, not die cracks. Reason is, JR-5 is the second use of Obverse 3. The third use is in JR-6. So, if dramatic cracks or cuds developed in JR-5 they would be present in all JR-6 specimens, and they are not.
And although I'd love for this to be a remarriage situation, where the JR-5 obverse and reverse are paired after JR-6 is struck, I can't make that happen in my brain either, because the UNI cud on the reverse would be way more advanced in a late state, and it's not. (I try to think with an open mind on these things!)
New website: Groovycoins.com Capped Bust Half Dime registry set: Bikergeek CBHD LM Set
Thanks, Sean. Just was hoping. lol Picked this up for $17 and thought not a bad loss if wrong.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Does this 1835 have a CUD at the ATES OF A or just wear? I can't seem to match it to a JR-3 which has the CUD but would like your opinions.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
@jesbroken, looks like wear to me. Odd pattern on Liberty's face... looks like it was in a mount of some sort, albeit not soldered in (which would be much more damaging).
New website: Groovycoins.com Capped Bust Half Dime registry set: Bikergeek CBHD LM Set