Fair Price for a Friend

erwindoc

I have a graded MS64 Double eagle 1900. Its a common year I know and I was going to use the money to buy other coins. A non-collector friend wants to buy it. What would be the fairest price for both of us? It should not be too much over spot.

NewEnglandRarities

@erwindoc said:
I have a graded MS64 Double eagle 1900. Its a common year I know and I was going to use the money to buy other coins. A non-collector friend wants to buy it. What would be the fairest price for both of us? It should not be too much over spot.

From a no image guess it’s basically spot. But I will say not enough info for anyone here to help you. Spot is generally correct.

braddick

$2,700 to $2,800.

U1chicago

Take a look at the major websites to see their buy and sell prices for a generic 64. Offer it to your friend somewhere in between (or at the same price as the website/dealer would pay you).

MFeld

There's a sight-unseen bid of $2700. So I'd figure $2750.

pursuitofliberty

I think @braddick is in the right range with Spot today. I'd say about 50 to 100. over spot seems fair, which is 2750. to 2800. give or take 5.

dhikewhitney

@MFeld said:
There's a sight-unseen bid of $2700. So I'd figure $2750.

I don’t understand that for a graded MS64; have the grade markups shrunk that much with the bullion price increase and junk melt value about $2566 ?
what are the bids for common graded MS61-63 Liberty Double Eagles now ?

MFeld

@dhikewhitney said:

@MFeld said:
There's a sight-unseen bid of $2700. So I'd figure $2750.

I don’t understand that for a graded MS64; have the grade markups shrunk that much with the bullion price increase and junk melt value about $2566 ?
what are the bids for common graded MS61-63 Liberty Double Eagles now ?

Yes, to a large extent, the premiums have dropped significantly with the runup in the price of gold.
MS63 sight-unseen bid is $2560 and I presume that MS61's and MS62's are just slightly less than that.

PeakRarities

@MFeld said:

@dhikewhitney said:

@MFeld said:
There's a sight-unseen bid of $2700. So I'd figure $2750.

I don’t understand that for a graded MS64; have the grade markups shrunk that much with the bullion price increase and junk melt value about $2566 ?
what are the bids for common graded MS61-63 Liberty Double Eagles now ?

Yes, to a large extent, the premiums have dropped significantly with the runup in the price of gold.
MS63 sight-unseen bid is $2560 and I presume that MS61's and MS62's are just slightly less than that.

Yup, premiums on bullion and semi-numismatic pre 33 are non existent right now. 64 saints are like 2675, and 65s a bit over 2800.

Hell, even 66s are only like 3200. I’m curious if the 66 premium has ever been this low.

dhikewhitney

Well, if one thinks gold is at least not likely to go down much, and wants common date double eagles, forget about MS61-MS63, MS-64 is the value point (MS-66 is noticeably more eye appealing, but MS-65 not that much nicer than 64).

PeakRarities

@dhikewhitney said:
Well, if one thinks gold is at least not likely to go down much, and wants common date double eagles, forget about MS61-MS63, MS-64 is the value point (MS-66 is noticeably more eye appealing, but MS-65 not that much nicer than 64).

Value point for eye appeal, or premium? I think 65s have more potential upside than the 64s, especially when the spread is negligible.

This thread actually reminds me I have another 15-20 ounces of bullion to trade out for 65 saints. I’m not sure a better opportunity will present itself to exit generic bullion positions and load up on gem saints.

jmlanzaf

@PeakRarities said:

@dhikewhitney said:
Well, if one thinks gold is at least not likely to go down much, and wants common date double eagles, forget about MS61-MS63, MS-64 is the value point (MS-66 is noticeably more eye appealing, but MS-65 not that much nicer than 64).

Value point for eye appeal, or premium? I think 65s have more potential upside than the 64s, especially when the spread is negligible.

This thread actually reminds me I have another 15-20 ounces of bullion to trade out for 65 saints. I’m not sure a better opportunity will present itself to exit generic bullion positions and load up on gem saints.

I'm not sure i would ever buy 61/62 eagles as a value play unless the premium is negative. If you want bullion, you can get 0.999 for near spot. If you want coins, 64s or 65s look much better with not much of a premium.

erwindoc

Thanks everyone! I had considered auction trends but the dealers here have a different opinion on buying generic 20 libs, which is why I posed the question. Here is the image. It's nice for the grade but didn't make the cut at CAC. Thought I would upgrade it when it was time since premiums are so low! I also have a 1904 but it has the sticker and Im sure my friend does not care about the CAC sticker situation.

Cougar1978

Consult CDN CPG. As to how much you would discount it for a friend that’s your call.

Walkerfan

Gold closed at about 2650 today. I think 2750 would be fair for both of you. It’s a nice, near gem, in an old fatty, so it’s worth a mere $100 premium and is certainly acceptable, IMHO.

pocketpiececommems

If it’s graded, especially PCGS, it would have to be more than spot. The buyer knows what he’s getting

dhikewhitney

@PeakRarities said:

@dhikewhitney said:
Well, if one thinks gold is at least not likely to go down much, and wants common date double eagles, forget about MS61-MS63, MS-64 is the value point (MS-66 is noticeably more eye appealing, but MS-65 not that much nicer than 64).

Value point for eye appeal, or premium? I think 65s have more potential upside than the 64s, especially when the spread is negligible.

This thread actually reminds me I have another 15-20 ounces of bullion to trade out for 65 saints. I’m not sure a better opportunity will present itself to exit generic bullion positions and load up on gem saints.

Value point for eye appeal; I'd rather have the MS64 than MS65, but I'd rather have the MS66 than either at $450 or $500 over spot price. I didn't realize the spread was that close.

PeakRarities

@dhikewhitney said:

@PeakRarities said:

@dhikewhitney said:
Well, if one thinks gold is at least not likely to go down much, and wants common date double eagles, forget about MS61-MS63, MS-64 is the value point (MS-66 is noticeably more eye appealing, but MS-65 not that much nicer than 64).

Value point for eye appeal, or premium? I think 65s have more potential upside than the 64s, especially when the spread is negligible.

This thread actually reminds me I have another 15-20 ounces of bullion to trade out for 65 saints. I’m not sure a better opportunity will present itself to exit generic bullion positions and load up on gem saints.

Value point for eye appeal; I'd rather have the MS64 than MS65, but I'd rather have the MS66 than either at $450 or $500 over spot price. I didn't realize the spread was that close.

I did get some in 6 this year, but issue with 6’s is that the demand can faulter. My primary wholesale network doesn’t always have a 66 bid, but 65 always has plenty of bids. In general, it seems like 65s are just more liquid.

DisneyFan

If you have a couple of local dealers, call them and ask for quotes. Sell it to your friend for the highest quote and tell him how you arrived at the price. He couldn't get a better deal than that and you have made a friend happy.

PerryHall

@Walkerfan said:
Gold closed at about 2650 today. I think 2750 would be fair for both of you. It’s a nice, near gem, in an old fatty, so it’s worth a mere $100 premium and is certainly acceptable, IMHO.

Does the "old fatty" NGC slab bring a premium when it's damaged? The hologram is half missing which is a distraction when viewing the reverse side of the slab. Also, since CAC refused to bean it, can you really call it "near gem" without viewing it in hand?

Cougar1978

The fairest price for both is one that floats your boat in the green and both agree on. It’s a $3400 coin (CDN CPG). It’s really nice for the grade too (photo) if not PQ (bump it up to $3500 plus?). No way lol would give something like that away at melt or severely discount it. Possibly / Get it reholdered at NGC or cross with our hosts (specify minimum grade on form MS64). It just might upgrade. Friend? I would not knock off more than $50 (stocking present gift card).

GoldFinger1969

@PeakRarities said:
Yup, premiums on bullion and semi-numismatic pre 33 are non existent right now. 64 saints are like 2675, and 65s >a bit over 2800.
Hell, even 66s are only like 3200. I’m curious if the 66 premium has ever been this low.

FranklinHalfAddict

I think whatever a fair dealer would pay you would be a fair price to charge your friend, or maybe a very small percentage over. That way you get from the friend what you’d get from a dealer plus a few dollars and your friend could get it for less than what they’d have to pay a dealer.

FranklinHalfAddict

@PeakRarities said:

@dhikewhitney said:
Well, if one thinks gold is at least not likely to go down much, and wants common date double eagles, forget about MS61-MS63, MS-64 is the value point (MS-66 is noticeably more eye appealing, but MS-65 not that much nicer than 64).

Value point for eye appeal, or premium? I think 65s have more potential upside than the 64s, especially when the spread is negligible.

This thread actually reminds me I have another 15-20 ounces of bullion to trade out for 65 saints. I’m not sure a better opportunity will present itself to exit generic bullion positions and load up on gem saints.

I’m glad I opened this thread and read through.

I’ve been slowly stacking silver for the last couple of years. My disposable income is limited so I’d have to save for many months to afford any significant gold and I don’t have the patience to do that.

So now may be the time for me to trade in some of my generic silver for some nice gold!

jmlanzaf

@Cougar1978 said:
The fairest price for both is one that floats your boat in the green and both agree on. It’s a $3400 coin (CDN CPG). It’s really nice for the grade too (photo) if not PQ. No way lol would give something like that away at melt or severely discount it. Possibly / Get it reholdered at NGC or cross with our hosts (specify minimum grade on form MS64). It just might upgrade. Friend? I would not knock off more than $50 (stocking present gift card).

Good luck selling that at CPG. We know you are buying it at melt, so why are you floating $3400 as the fair price?

MFeld

@Cougar1978 said:
The fairest price for both is one that floats your boat in the green and both agree on. It’s a $3400 coin (CDN CPG). It’s really nice for the grade too (photo) if not PQ (bump iup to $3500 plus). No way lol would give something like that away at melt or severely discount it. Possibly / Get it reholdered at NGC or cross with our hosts (specify minimum grade on form MS64). It just might upgrade. Friend? I would not knock off more than $50 (stocking present gift card).

No one suggested giving the coin away at melt or discounting it severely. And getting it reholdered or crossed over to a PCGS holder would be throwing money away. Lastly, your quoted CDN CPG price is irrelevant, considering that @erwindoc said he wants to sell the coin to a friend at a fair price.
Other than (all of) that, your post was almost helpful.

Cougar1978

Frankly considering the coin and when it was graded I believe it has a chance to upgrade. No - reholdering to make a coin more marketable is not a waste of money especially if it upgrades. CPG is a fair market price and discounting it the price of a $50 gift card is very nice. OP - See if you can get it upgraded first. Perhaps that’s why your friend wants it.

PerryHall

@Cougar1978 said:
Frankly considering the coin and when it was graded I believe it has a chance to upgrade. No - reholdering to make a coin more marketable is not a waste of money especially if it upgrades. CPG is a fair market price and discounting it the price of a $50 gift card is very nice. OP - See if you can get it upgraded first. Perhaps that’s why your friend wants it.

The OP said that it "didn't make the cut at CAC" so it's unlikely to upgrade. It's possible CAC saw some hairlines and they thought it was cleaned or some other issue they didn't like.

Walkerfan

@PerryHall said:

@Walkerfan said:
Gold closed at about 2650 today. I think 2750 would be fair for both of you. It’s a nice, near gem, in an old fatty, so it’s worth a mere $100 premium and is certainly acceptable, IMHO.

Does the "old fatty" NGC slab bring a premium when it's damaged? The hologram is half missing which is a distraction when viewing the reverse side of the slab. Also, since CAC refused to bean it, can you really call it "near gem" without viewing it in hand?

Your points are valid but being that it's certified 64 by NGC; I feel it deserves to be priced, at least, a little over spot. $100 is less than 4% which is very minimal.

PeakRarities

@PerryHall said:

@Walkerfan said:
Gold closed at about 2650 today. I think 2750 would be fair for both of you. It’s a nice, near gem, in an old fatty, so it’s worth a mere $100 premium and is certainly acceptable, IMHO.

Does the "old fatty" NGC slab bring a premium when it's damaged? The hologram is half missing which is a distraction when viewing the reverse side of the slab. Also, since CAC refused to bean it, can you really call it "near gem" without viewing it in hand?

No, and no. The barcode fatty is like the 5tn generation, they don’t even have a premium.

PeakRarities

@Walkerfan said:

@PerryHall said:

@Walkerfan said:
Gold closed at about 2650 today. I think 2750 would be fair for both of you. It’s a nice, near gem, in an old fatty, so it’s worth a mere $100 premium and is certainly acceptable, IMHO.

Does the "old fatty" NGC slab bring a premium when it's damaged? The hologram is half missing which is a distraction when viewing the reverse side of the slab. Also, since CAC refused to bean it, can you really call it "near gem" without viewing it in hand?

Your points are valid but being that it's certified 64 by NGC; I feel it deserves to be priced, at least, a little over spot. $100 is less than 4% which is very minimal.

You’re conflating spot and melt. If you sell a Double Eagle for “spot”, that’s already around a 3.4% premium. $2,750 is almost $190 premium, or 7.3%.

GoldFinger1969

@PeakRarities said:
You’re conflating spot and melt. If you sell a Double Eagle for “spot”, that’s already around a 3.4% premium. $2,750 >is almost $190 premium, or 7.3%.

Don't forget the value of an actual grade, even low-MS and the value of the TPG holder. Figure that's $20-$30 right there.

I bought a 1915-S MS-63 OGH at FUN 2020. I paid like $20-$30 over spot so considering the 0.9675 ounces I guess a total all-in premium of 4-5%. Very reasonable IMO.

When I sold it last year, I got a 15% premium to the spot gold price....fewer 1915-S's I guess compared to all the 1908 NM's and 1924's...plus the OGH was worth something so my LCS gave me what I thought was a very generous price. I was pleasantly surprised, though sad to part with the coin.

Cougar1978

I have had no trouble getting CPG (sometimes more) for nice Classic US Gold coins. For retail inventory / I cherry-pick them for quality. The difference between an average quality piece and one that is PQ can be light years.

GoldFinger1969

@Cougar1978 said:
I have had no trouble getting CPG (sometimes more) for nice Classic US Gold coins. For retail inventory / I cherry-pick them for quality. The difference between an average quality piece and one that is PQ can be light years.

If you get a chance, there were a bunch of MS-67 1908 NM's that were sold last night..at least 3....2 went for $6K (w/bp) EACH/EXACTLY... but the other one went for just under $5,300.

Curious your thoughts on why that may have been so.

Cougar1978

YMMV. - Auc can vary.

CDN bid on MS66 08 nm Saint is about 6k. Perhaps bidders factoring in juice. Perhaps the lower result a low end coin. Did it have spots, toning crud, Crummy, dull looking? I would really need to know what the seller fee is there. I factor in auc house buyer fee to reduce my bid to some amount that works for me like bid or some pct below. Then I have to beat final minute bidders to score the deal. Goal is to flip or retail for good margin (buy low / sell high). Everybody knows 5c on $ does not cut it in the coin biz. With luck bid competition may be light and I get a super pickup. This has sometimes happened for me during big shows. I don’t sell at auc I sell retail - shows / clients.

Sanddollar

@Cougar1978 said:
I have had no trouble getting CPG (sometimes more) for nice Classic US Gold coins. For retail inventory / I cherry-pick them for quality. The difference between an average quality piece and one that is PQ can be light years.

That took you three edits to come up with this thought?

Cougar1978

@Sanddollar said:

@Cougar1978 said:
I have had no trouble getting CPG (sometimes more) for nice Classic US Gold coins. For retail inventory / I cherry-pick them for quality. The difference between an average quality piece and one that is PQ can be light years.

That took you three edits to come up with this thought?

So what lol. You can’t Can’t post something original?

Sanddollar

@Cougar1978 said:

@Sanddollar said:

@Cougar1978 said:
I have had no trouble getting CPG (sometimes more) for nice Classic US Gold coins. For retail inventory / I cherry-pick them for quality. The difference between an average quality piece and one that is PQ can be light years.

That took you three edits to come up with this thought?

So what lol. You can’t Can’t post something original?

By gosh.
Two edits for that one.

logger7

No one wants to be the bagholder. An elderly couple was looking around for stronger offers on both semi-numismatic and bullion gold and I gave them the best shake I could with offers but didn't even return my call yesterday as they'd probably sold to someone else. A reasonable offer with tons of this stuff out there is something where the risk factor is accounted for, he probably bought it a while ago for considerably less. Give him reasonable numbers if you are going to sell it on the bst for him, then walk away. The best charity with precious metals I've found is liquidating at top dollar then using the proceeds.

jmlanzaf

@Sanddollar said:

@Cougar1978 said:

@Sanddollar said:

@Cougar1978 said:
I have had no trouble getting CPG (sometimes more) for nice Classic US Gold coins. For retail inventory / I cherry-pick them for quality. The difference between an average quality piece and one that is PQ can be light years.

That took you three edits to come up with this thought?

So what lol. You can’t Can’t post something original?

By gosh.
Two edits for that one.

Because he cares to post the very best...