Dave Parker and Dick Allen elected into the Hall of Fame
coolstanley
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So happy for them both. LONG overdue.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
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Glad to see it.
Don't call him Richie.
Results of the Classic Baseball Era Ballot (12 votes needed for election): Dave Parker (14 votes, 87.5%); Dick Allen (13 votes, 81.3%); Tommy John (7 votes, 43.8%); Ken Boyer, John Donaldson, Steve Garvey, Vic Harris and Luis Tiant each received less than five votes.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
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It's long overdue for both of these players. Really happy to see it.
I heard that Parker has also been having some health problems. I’m not saying that had an impact on the voting. Only that I think it’s nice that he was elected while alive.
Congrats to Dave Parker and all his fans. Coolstanley, that is a fun day and we were just saying Parker had a shot. I've always had great respect for him as a player.
Congrats to Dick Allen as well. He was a beast.
Congrats to Dave Parker.
When this SI issue came out I was a pirates, Stargell and Parker fan. I always called him Big Gun Dave Parker after they did on the cover. 👍
My 1979 cobra trash can.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
Finally for Dick Allen,I saw him play for The Chisox along with Bill Melton (who passed away a couple of days ago) and Wilbur Wood the old Nuckle Ball at The Old Comiskey.
Congrats to both these guys and @coolstanley
When I saw Vic Harris on this list, my first thought was:
Congratulations. I do not have a problem with either one of them. I am a big hall kind of guy
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
That's Super Cool... 👍
It took me a little while to seem this one...
Allen meets every HOF standard that ever existed; every BBWAA voter who ever voted "no" on Allen is a disgrace.
Parker blows away the new "better than Jim Rice and Gil Hodges" standard, so his getting in was inevitable. But he falls short of what I wish the HOF was, so I'll just shrug.
They both are deserving.
MVP shares
Parker - 38
Allen - 149
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
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I apologize if I overstep to clarify your post, but what those numbers represent are their all time ranks in MVP shares.
Parker is 38th all time
Allen is 149th all time.
Clarified or unclarified, the use of MVP shares as the basis for determining worthiness for the HOF made my head hurt.
Their rankings on some lists that are relevant:
OPS+: Allen is 25th, Parker is 373rd
WPA: Allen is 50th, Parker is 97th
Offensive Win%: Allen is 37th, Parker is 433rd
Dick Allen was left off of Bill James Top100 all-time list because Bill James despises Dick Allen. Had James simply allowed his formulas to operate without his "subjective factor" - which he does not disclose for anyone - Allen would have landed comfortably in the top 50. Allen and Schilling were the last remaining players where traumatic brain injury is the only acceptable explanation for believing they didn't belong in the HOF. Now, there's just Schilling.
Allen should have been voted in years ago. And the same can be said for Rocky Colavito- but that still is a work in progress that may never materialize.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
With HOF voters longevity used to be a determining factor. I believe it’s why Joe DiMaggio didn’t get in immediately. It’s definitely why Dick Allen hasn’t gotten in before now. Dallas knows this but is pretending voters have never put an emphasis on length of career. Allen had a short career, simple as that.
@Darin hit the nail on the head. It is the short career thing. He was not seen as "dominant" as Koufax so was not voted in. I think the way he handled the media also had an role in it.
I think a great modern equivalent to Allen is Albert Belle. He was dominant and had a short career due to injury and was prickly to the media.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Yes, albeit to a slightly lesser degree.
Here is a riddle; Allen is in the HOF, Belle often gets put into a similar category, but Lance Berkman is completely ignored or forgotten.
Allen 7,315 Plate appearances, 156 OPS+, 477 Run Expectancy.
Belle 6,676 plate appearances, 144 OPS+, 334 Run Expectancy.
Berkman 7,814 plate appearances, 144 OPS+, 565 Run Expectancy.
Why?
I agree, lance is often completely overlooked. I used him in a player comparison a while ago. I cannot remember who the other player was though.
I remember Belle had a 50 2b and 50 HR season once. unreal
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
They could have voted Allen in for having put up with Philly fans for so long and that would have been enough for me.
When Allen finally had enough and demanded a trade Curt Flood was on the other side of that deal and sued MLB rather than report. That’s how much of a stain on this history of baseball Philly fans were. Why Allen returned later in his career….
I think the Bill James comments referred to come from one on his books. Politics of Glory. Not everything Bill James has done is well-researched or well-done. Anyways. I’m glad he’s been elected. Cobra too.
Berkman is definitely a good candidate to replace Allen as the best player not in the HOF.
Yes indeed. I meant to say Parker is 38th all time and Allen 149th all time.
I also agree with the above statements that the reason it took so long for Allen to get in is because he didnt have a long career. That, and he finished in the top 10 in MVP only 3 times.
I think the reason why it took so long for Parker to get in, is because he was the heart and soul of those 80's drug(cocaine) trials.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
If Berkman played centerfield he'd be Mike Trout.
His offensive stats are nearly identical.
Lance Berkman (1999-2011)
6154 AB - 1107 Runs - 1822 Hits - 405 2B - 28 3B - 358 HR - 1193 RBI - 84 SB - 1149 BB - 1229 K's
51.6 WAR - .296 BA - .409 OBP - .545 SLG
Mike Trout (2011-2024)
5511 AB - 1123 Runs - 1648 Hits - 311 2B - 54 3B - 378 HR - 954 RBI - 212 SB - 980 BB - 1485 K's
86.2 WAR - .299 BA - .410 OBP - .581 SLG
If I were seven foot six I would have been a center in the NBA.
if Berkman were capable of playing CF at the high level Trout did then he 'could' have been closer to Trout. That is true. As such, he couldn't and didn't, and he isn't.
It would have been great for Houston if Berkman were able to, then the Astros would have been better off instead of suffering with Willy Taveras in CF providing a .340 SLG% and a 74 OPS+ there. So if there were any indication BERKMAN could play CF, then he would have been in those years with Taveras being an absolute liability at the plate.
Berkman simply did not have the ability to play CF at the MLB level on a long term basis. Had he kept slimmer maybe he could have stuck there but he didn't.
Heck, if Greg Luzinkski were a shortstop then he would have been...etc, etc. etc.
.
Craig has him as one of the best CF ever with Trout being 5th all time in fielding percentage in CF.
Will Clark now the best player not in the HOF.
Good pick
incorrect.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Just having some fun. I know it isn't correct.
I haven't looked much into the best player not in the HOF, but I think Clark is a pretty good pick.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Because he had him 3rd all-time.
Trout gets a huge 30-point bump in career WAR simply by playing the position. It does not matter how he plays defensively he still gets the bump. The fact he was a below-average defensive player makes it all the more humorous that people put so much emphasis on WAR.
I mean, sure, if we ignore Bonds, Clemens, Rodriguez...
I try to ignore them, but it's hard when people here keep mentioning them.
Yeah, I get that. But Will at his absolute best was never as good as Rodriguez, for example, was at 20 years old before the rounds.
No argument, but I'd still like to ignore him.
The issue with Will Clark is generally if a first baseman doesn’t hit 35-45 dingers a year like Stargell, McCovey, etc. he can easily be underrated like Keith Hernandez and Will Clark tend to be.
There are a few players that are worthy to be the most deserving to be in the HOF that have not arrived yet. Reggie Smith is one… I have already mentioned Rocky Colavito in other threads.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
You do understand why a player gets a bump for playing CF? Why do you think Berkman was tried in CF and replaced with a horrendous hitter?
Why not just put Greg Luzinski in CF and then he would be an easy HOFer then too(per your belief in WAR bump)? Why not?
Trout's 173 OPS+ to Berkman's 144 would not matter which position they played regardless because that is still a big difference. 30 wins in WAR you are claiming for Trout isn't really accurate.
Trout didn't play CF poorly. Maybe these last few years(where he didn't play many games anyway to affect his total WAR).
But during Trout's prime, he didn't play it poorly at all. If you dismiss the accurate stats, then you agree since Trout is 50th all time in putouts for CF and 5th all time in fielding percentage for CF. So per your own beliefs in old school stats, Trout is one of the best CF ever.
According to @ArtVandelay you could have just put Will Clark at SS so he got the same WAR bump as Arod...so you might want to retract what you said.
Not to be confused with this kind of Cobra, right?
D's: 54S,53P,50P,49S,45D+S,44S,43D,41S,40D+S,39D+S,38D+S,37D+S,36S,35D+S,all 16-34's
Q's: 52S,47S,46S,40S,39S,38S,37D+S,36D+S,35D,34D,32D+S
74T: 37,38,47,151,193,241,435,570,610,654,655 97 Finest silver: 115,135,139,145,310
73T:31,55,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,80,152,165,189,213,235,237,257,341,344,377,379,390,422,433,453,480,497,545,554,563,580,606,613,630
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Keith Henandez is the one that really bothers me not being in. MVP, WS with two different teams, fantastic fielder, great hitting numbers. He needs to get in there
162 homers at 1B just ain't enough. If you like Keith Hernandez to get in, beat the drum for John Olerud who was basically as good a fielder and a better hitter.