Incredible! US Mint selling 2024 Flowing Hair Dies and First Strike!
Zoins
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Wow! I have to say that the US Mint is becoming very collector friendly in their offerings! Not only are they selling classic designs, the are doing first strikes, and also selling cancelled dies! Also, the die cancellation is really an "X", not a cross, and you can see the design inside!
This is a US Mint I couldn't have imagined just a few years ago but it's exciting to see a new era in modern rarities!
The auction lot stands at $170,000! How high do we think this will go?
Thanks to @davewesen for posting about this here:
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/13831289/#Comment_13831289
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Comments
That X is very interesting. Maybe laser cut? I'm not sure how else they did it while retaining the details underneath.
Incredibly exciting!
X-citing!!!
Cute
1st strike, 18th strike, 28th strike..Who's counting!?
I did.
Strike 1 through 53 are arguably the "same", and the progression in blue is duly noted.
Prove me wrong, please...
Number 1 "published" coin
Number 18 "published" coin
Number 28 "published" coin
Number 54 "published" coin
"V" -- for Ventris!
Thinking like a collector, good for the marketplace.
Does this help?:
"All images, except for the PCGS holdered images and PCGS TrueView images, are for illustrative purposes only and do not depict the exact coin being offered."
Those dies are a treasure. What a cool offering. I wonder if bidders are considering doing private restrikes and factoring in the potential ROI of doing them. That would increase their value quite considerably, I would think.
As mentioned, that cancelation technique has not been used yet on dies released to the public. It does have quite an interesting effect.
I hope whoever wins let’s Daniel Carr make a few over strikes with it.
Yes, these dies are a treasure. Most likely there will be private restrikes.
In my humble opinion, having dealt with uncancelled dies, cancelled dies, dies certified by NGC, and striking restrikes, these 2 dies are at least worth half of the price realized.
My estimate for this lot ( #1 and the dies) is a minimum of $250k.
@NJCoin,
"All images, except for the PCGS holdered images and PCGS TrueView images, are for illustrative purposes only and do not depict the exact coin being offered."
It does help indeed! That statement tells me that the(fake)Mint rendered image(below), does not depict the exact coin being offered.
Furthermore, the zoomed TrueView images that I've posted above, are the exact coin being offered.
Just my opinion:
The U. S. Mint will have StacksBowers auction cancelled dies from previous issues of U.S. classic vintage coins struck in gold. And upcoming issues as well.
This will be a great result! After this sale, I think the US Mint won't be able to get enough of reissuing classic designs, with limited issue privies and cancelled die sales. Great for collectors and taxpayers.
Well, since the government is in the business of auctioning off "rarities" now, hopefully the money goes into something productive.
Yes, I remember when the 1933 DE was monetized and auctioned. This is different
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
To me, this is like the Mint understanding and catering to collectors, like when they sold patterns earlier, instead of destroying them.
Made for collector nonsense.
It would be a privylege to own these...
Like making the US Mint a break-even operation rather than a big loss?
Didn't Canada's RCM sell some very low mintage rarities on eBay near 20 years ago?
It will be interesting to see if the US Mint starts selling more cancelled dies. There has always been a strong market for the Olympic cancelled dies. They could make much more than sending to scrap.
Recognizing the collector is a customer, and providing the customer with what they want.
Yes I think I understand.....like a proof coin.
Like EVERY coin the Mint sells through their website.
Do you guys think the US Mint/PCGS should do a special label on the 1st privy gold coin struck similar to, say, the W quarter First Discovery program a few years back?
Someone is going to be paying over $170k, it ought to have, truely, a "First Strike' pedigree.
Do you mean like this?
From this specimen, it seems like it could be First and Second Discovery, given there are 2 coins.
It would be great to see some restrikes, and to have PCGS slab them!
Why do we need 2025 restrikes of a 2024 coin?
Because there are currently 0 coins struck from the die after it was cancelled, and it is cancelled with a new cancelling technique
And do they have to be 2025, or later, restrikes? Could they be 2024 restrikes of a 2024 coin???
You're going to have a hard time minting the coin in 2024 given the December 12th auction.
Having done some restrikes before with @dcarr, it may be tight but it can be done with some planning. It may be more difficult if one has never done restrikes before. It's not that important to do them in 2024, but it could be interesting.
I'm not sure why you're obsessed with the year. The point is that having restrikes of a coin just issued isn't really all that exciting. Would you be jumping up and down if the Mint announced a 2025 Privy dollar in January? If so, you're jumping would probably be from anger at having your special coin diluted with an additional mintage.
I'm not "obsessed". It's just interesting to think and chat about. The exciting part of having some 2024 restrikes be made is that they would be time-limited and in the same year of original issue! The way I can think about doing this is pairing an X-cancelled die with a new die saying the restrike was made in 2024, or having a collar saying it was struck in 2024. This way the 2024 restrikes can be a limited issue without needing to further deface the dies.
Additionally, I don't think anyone with a US Mint 2024 coin will be diluted with private restrikes struck from X-cancelled dies. I really don't see that happening.
I said 2025 Mint offering not restrikes. Of course restrikes won't dilute the real ones.
I’m not sure how 2025 not restrikes are relevant. Glad we agree on restrikes!
My point was that you are very excited about 2024 restrikes but I doubt you'd be as excited about a 2025 Mint issue.
All I can say is:
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
For 2025, 231 would be an odd privy and I don’t think they will make one.
The privy could be a cat or dog, a star or an eagle. The privy need not be "231". Or even could be 230 in honor of the 1795, if you must have a number.
I’m not sure how this is relevant to this thread, but keep posting. It may be interesting to see your cat or dog coin speculation in a thread of yours.
It was a direct response to you.
But I never talked about 2025 non-restrike issues and have no interest in doing so in this thread. I’ll post in your cat coin thread if you start one.
You said that you couldn't see a "231" privy. I said that a privy need not contain a number at all. Direct response to you. You then responded that my direct response wasn't relevant to the thread. The entire conversation is nested.
The "X" cancel appears to me to be laser cut.
Since the laser would likely dwell on all points inside the "X" for the same time duration, the entire X would be cut at a consistent depth from the initial surface. That is why the design detail, to some extent, appears to be present inside the "X".
No worries. I'm not interested in the entire discussion of theoretical 2025 coins in this thread, which is why I didn't respond to you question directly, aside from saying US Mint coins and private restrikes are not related, to which you agreed. If another thread shows up, I may post there.
Good explanation Dan. Laser cut X-cancellation seems to be major progress from the Cross-cancellation on the 1995-1996 Olympic dies.
To be clear the only dies that are being sold are with lot 1, correct? The first struck.
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
Correct. Given they only made 230, would there even be more than one set of dies?
WYSIWYG with this deal. It's all up on SB's website, complete with early bidding.
That's my understanding and what I see from my auction lot searches.
@DCW
"According to White, four obverse and four reverse dies bearing the 230 privy mark were used to strike the privy-marked gold pieces. The average die life for the obverse dies was 118 and for the reverse, 203 coins."
https://www.coinworld.com/news/us-coins/buying-frenzy-surrounds-flowing-hair-gold-dollar
Great link and info @Rick5280!
This article also indicates that 1 die set was used to strike only the first coin!
Stack's doesn't provide as much detail on the dies:
Below is the full section on striking details with quotes from U.S. Mint spokesman Michael White.
Thanks for the Striking Details!
White said the first-struck, privy-marked Proof gold dollar, was produced with its own die set.
The first coin struck, with its own set of dies included, is a numismatic first and the final price will reflect the uniqueness of this special lot in SB.