@estang said:
The Roy White is the most egregious grade of the grouping, imho.
I could only surmise it has some type of surface wrinkle not present.
That said, PSA & SGC are grading vintage 1 to 2+ grades lower than they used to grade them. It doe NOT represent the Beckett catalog standards used in the past. They changed the standards. Why is the question?
They dont want this type of business. They want modern.
With the lower resale SGC seemed more geared to collector's rather than sellers.
Are you folks saying all CU wants are Moderns ? Seems to make more sense to have SGC focus more on vintage thus shunting Moderns to the higher priced PSA
I stopped sending in cards for grading many years ago.
It was just too inconsistent. Bad grades were just explained away as "you got the grader of death" and you just needed to "crack and resubmit". Now, any raw cards I but stay that way and if I need a card in a PSA or SGC holder, I just buy it that way. Much simpler.
I like SGC for modern cards too and they are good for research. Their ability to do the odd size has PSA beat hands down. I feel like SGC needs to people please still and PSA couldn't care less about it so it's just pump them out... I just wish they spruce up the flip little.. Center the SGC? add a little color? black on black is ugly!!
Only advantage I see in grading is it verifies card is authentic. After that the assigned grade is still an arguementative issue. Either by submitter or purchaser.
Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
With the lower resale SGC seemed more geared to collector's rather than sellers.
Are you folks saying all CU wants are Moderns ? Seems to make more sense to have SGC focus more on vintage thus shunting Moderns to the higher priced PSA
I guess what I am trying to say is its not an issue of which company wants to grade vintage. I think neither wants to grade vintage. I can just see it being more expensive to grade a vintage card. I think it takes more time. Could be wrong but it feels true. Can maybe teach a 23-year-old with no previous experience at a junior salary to grade these TCGs with no corners that they are maybe familiar with. Or maybe familiar with Panini Prizms or Topps Chrome with thick strong card stock that wears less and is brand new. It just feels to me if someone submits 100 2024 Panini Prizm football, a junior employee can pound through those. Quickly size up centering, make sure there are no indentations, corners and edges probably often razor sharp. Think you can reach a decision on a grade pretty quick.
With vintage its like there is some paper loss, how much paper loss. Corner wear, how do you quantify exactly how much wear there is, how many microscopic grains of card stock have disappeared. There is a ding, how much of a ding, just like the corner wear its tough to say so obviously that is a 5 ding vs. a 4 ding. That round corner is no doubt a 6 and not a 5. I feel the wear on old cards takes so many angles into account and is so subjective and would be so time-consuming compared to modern. It can be fun for us as a hobby and we can take our time with it but a business maybe appreciates it less. Jayden Daniels rookie, centered sharp corners, no print issues no dents, 90 seconds later its a 10. Or a 9. Maybe 2 to 3 times quicker. So if you can grade more of card A in an hour than card B better business to try to get more of card A.
I would think they just raise the price on the ones that cost them more to grade. Which I think does come out with TCG. Cheaper to grade because they want that. And then with specials its usually cheaper for modern and modern more often. Maybe this way of trying to reduce vintage business is a little passive aggressive. I dont think they can say we wont grade vintage anymore. Stop sending it. Probably too much backlash. But they can just make you hate the experience and hope you stop giving them that kind of business and I think so far its been pretty effective. For PSA. Message received here.
PSA vs. SGC, I dont know. That is confusing to me. Because now, they really are the same thing. How much independence does the left arm have from the rest of the body. Time will tell. But over time, I'm not very optimistic they will seem different which I think is sad. I think you already see it a bit. Before the acquisition sure SGC can take a PSA card and say yeah they botched it, we will go 2 grades higher. Harder to do that with Dad looking over your shoulder saying are you sure you think WE were two grades off.
"Before the acquisition sure SGC can take a PSA card and say yeah they botched it, we will go 2 grades higher. Harder to do that with Dad looking over your shoulder saying are you sure you think WE were two grades off."
I don't think factors in much, as 99% of people crack a card out before resubmitting, so no way to know a card now at SGC was previously in a PSA holder...
I am the 1% that close to never cracks out of a holder and resubmits. I just feel that grade has to be preserved if its a nice card. If its a 9, and a nice valuable 9, with the way things have gotten stricter I cant take a chance that it comes back an 8 from SGC, then I say oh no I want my 9 back from PSA, let me crack and pay more fees and more postage and more insurance and they say 7 or Minimum Size Not Met. I agree with your point if it is 1% and I am it but through my eyes I play the game that way, close to no cracking. Even though I felt like I found a nice $7 pair of slab killers on Temu. 😂
I have 8 cards that are crossover candidates that SGC should be receiving today. Still in the original holders. Last time I submitted for crossover consideration none got the bump that were not a 9 to 9.5 situation. And hey, I love getting those. I will take that all day. I love the Mint+ grade. But anything that was an 8 or lower it was no, PSA got it right. Pre-acquisition PSA was wrong all over the place in their opinion. This time I did have some 8s in there but if I whiff, that game is over. It will just be 9s trying to be 9.5s where it can be justified and not be a bad look because its a grade PSA does not have.
I'll let everybody know when the results come in, on the crossovers and the raw cards sent in.
@jackstraw said:
I like SGC for modern cards too and they are good for research. Their ability to do the odd size has PSA beat hands down. I feel like SGC needs to people please still and PSA couldn't care less about it so it's just pump them out... I just wish they spruce up the flip little.. Center the SGC? add a little color? black on black is ugly!!
Plus it wouldn't hurt to make the cert # just a tad larger. Good lord I have to take a picture of the card and enlarge it to read the cert.
@jackstraw said:
I like SGC for modern cards too and they are good for research. Their ability to do the odd size has PSA beat hands down. I feel like SGC needs to people please still and PSA couldn't care less about it so it's just pump them out... I just wish they spruce up the flip little.. Center the SGC? add a little color? black on black is ugly!!
Plus it wouldn't hurt to make the cert # just a tad larger. Good lord I have to take a picture of the card and enlarge it to read the cert.
I agree and also like that there is no rail or bumper blocking and shadowing the edge of the card..
After looking at thousands of graded and non-graded cards in my life -- here is just some thoughts for the graders.
1) what does the card look like just to view it in your hand/card saver -- without magnification.
2) If it's not really centered it's not an 8.5 and up
3) Use common sense (above the roy white is a 3 and then the old goudey card is a 3, huh?)
4) have consistent rules (this is the one that we are pist about) -- looks like for company profits, if someone is breathing and wants to grade -- have at it.
5) for the 1991 cards and back, unless there are very visable issues with the cardboard itself, don't put a lot of consideration into that portion. a very small "place" in the card should only hold a 1 -2 point decrease, not 3 - 5 points.
6) small "spider veins" are not creases. maybe the card isn't a 10, but it doesn't have to go down to a 4 or 5 either.
7) it appears the biggest issue are the grading standards. If it's 60/40 and 70/30 on back it's a 10 (if everything else is ok). But when you and I look at those type of 10's we don't see 10, we see 8 or maybe 9. This feels like the elephant in the room to me. Without a 10 pristine for PSA, you can get a centered 10 or one that is a little off centered. Should both be a 10? Should one be a 9? Should one be pristine?
8) buy the card, not the holder/grade. But should it really be this way? Aren't we paying money to have a fixed grade that over 50% of the pop should agree on? Like above, most of feel like the White is much better than a 3, shouldn't I be able to get a cursory review and a new grade for free? Or at least be able to get money back for something that looks this egregious?
9) you and I place emphasis on many of the items above and deservedly so. Unfortunately, it's hard to get it to go our way.
Seem to be at the point or Vintage where what has always been a 4 or below remains same. BUT what used to be and deserves to be a 7, 8, 8.5,9, 9.5, 10 are now too 3s and 4s.
So I got my results back from SGC. Overall think I am pleased. There were a few I feel really good about and think that tips it into a nice experience. I will share the nice and the best which skews how it looks. But there were a lot of duds. 59 raw submitted. 7 graded cards for crossover.
I continue to have learning experiences. Most of the cards that were on traditional 80s and earlier card stock got killed. Had an 85 Topps Langston that to me looked maybe Gem Mint but it was a 7. 1985 USFL different card stock but feel that was just a you aren't getting nice grades on cards that old that are condition sensitive thing. 7s and 8s when I was thinking some 9s,
1987 Topps Football American/UK I was very happy with but felt they were deserving. Stronger card stock and centered nicely and pack fresh with strong corners and edges. Very happy about the Rice and Dickerson. Felt these grades were fair but dont see myself rolling the dice again. I am for the most part going to try to stop submitting older cards to anybody.
Non-sports E.T. Simpsons with that cereal box type of card, results bad. But do love the 9.5 Simpsons family sticker.
One of my favorite things was 3 of the 7 crossovers bumped up into SGC 9.5 Mint+ territory where they were originally PSA 9s. Bought the 1980 Payton thinking maybe it had a shot. Then love the Carew as a 9.5. Shohei was a bump too and cant complain on that.
Modern I was pleased as usual and not surprised too much.
@BBBrkrr said:
C'mon, man. You should be crazy-happy with those.
I would have been happy with the Carew and Payton grades alone. The colors on that Carew are amazing.
Those are all some cool things to have. 2 thumbs up.
Thanks. Good point. And I am happy the more time passes. How I felt gets a little clouded by what I didn't show. So I'll share some of the bummers too, which I think can help everyone get an idea of what to expect from them from different types of cards, sets, years. But at the end of the day, you are right. I am moving closer to crazy happy. Lot of stuff I love in this batch. And can walk away with a lesson learned on what makes sense to submit and what not. Value there. And realizing the ones that were less than expectations were not a huge number. I just wanted a nice grade on a USFL card. Thought Hebert had a shot. On ET I know it has a red dot but there is an alien in the sky so thought it could blend in.
Yeah, huge fan of J.R. and love that card. I do have that one in a PSA 10 and love it. But was hoping maybe that one would get a generous grade. I see flaws though. Cant blame them. J.R. was probably the first baseball player I was a fan of because I started watching in 1980 and he was just so dominant until he had the stroke. Him and George Brett. I would only realize after many years flirting with .400 and hitting .390 was not normal. But both players were a great intro to the sport.
@BLUEJAYWAY said:
Only advantage I see in grading is it verifies card is authentic. After that the assigned grade is still an arguementative issue. Either by submitter or purchaser.
If they can't get the grades right, why then assume they are correct on authenticity?
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@BLUEJAYWAY said:
Only advantage I see in grading is it verifies card is authentic. After that the assigned grade is still an arguementative issue. Either by submitter or purchaser.
If they can't get the grades right, why then assume they are correct on authenticity?
Not sure if those go hand and hand really. Maybe it's easier for a consensus on authenticity, then it is for grade.
Ulyssess -- i just got the first 10 on the rice about a month ago and then you get another one. Hurts my mv bruh. LOL!! nice job on the UK's.
@BLUEJAYWAY said:
Only advantage I see in grading is it verifies card is authentic. After that the assigned grade is still an arguementative issue. Either by submitter or purchaser.
If they can't get the grades right, why then assume they are correct on authenticity?
Not sure if those go hand and hand really. Maybe it's easier for a consensus on authenticity, then it is for grade.
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It may be harder to determine if a card has been trimmed than to determine a number grade.
Graders disagree on the exact same grade on a card, and that's going to be a bit subjective.
Authentic isn't subjective. They miss some. I have a card in my set that's a fake. Thankfully, I have another that's not.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@BLUEJAYWAY said:
Only advantage I see in grading is it verifies card is authentic. After that the assigned grade is still an arguementative issue. Either by submitter or purchaser.
If they can't get the grades right, why then assume they are correct on authenticity?
Not sure if those go hand and hand really. Maybe it's easier for a consensus on authenticity, then it is for grade.
Ulyssess -- i just got the first 10 on the rice about a month ago and then you get another one. Hurts my mv bruh. LOL!! nice job on the UK's.
Yeah, I remember you mentioning that. Sorry. If I could have got the Payton as a PSA 10 instead and left yours POP 1 I would.
But hey we control the POP now. I can list mine for $10,000 and you can list yours for $9,999. I plan to keep mine in the PC for a while so if you sell it will be the only one on the market.
@BLUEJAYWAY said:
Only advantage I see in grading is it verifies card is authentic. After that the assigned grade is still an arguementative issue. Either by submitter or purchaser.
If they can't get the grades right, why then assume they are correct on authenticity?
If in doubt on both points then why grade at all?
Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
@BLUEJAYWAY said:
Only advantage I see in grading is it verifies card is authentic. After that the assigned grade is still an arguementative issue. Either by submitter or purchaser.
If they can't get the grades right, why then assume they are correct on authenticity?
If in doubt on both points then why grade at all?
Good point. IMHO, I believe they get the authenticity correct. But PSA has graded a 1986 Bo jackson Memphis card incorrectly many times. They are gray/silver. The fake one shows Bo looking over his shoulder throwing. That one is fake, but you can find many of them graded by PSA on EBAY right now. The correct one is a face forward still shot of him posing for the camera. The main reason I know this is that a friend of mine flew out to Memphis to see Bo play and picked up the minor league set and he bought me one.
So to BlueJay's point -- i think 99% of the time they will get the authenticity correct. according to the graders on the board, I would think a grade would be confirmed about 60% of the time. Lots of variable in the grading. But it does make you think, how viable is the grading?
@BLUEJAYWAY said:
Only advantage I see in grading is it verifies card is authentic. After that the assigned grade is still an arguementative issue. Either by submitter or purchaser.
If they can't get the grades right, why then assume they are correct on authenticity?
If in doubt on both points then why grade at all?
Good point. IMHO, I believe they get the authenticity correct. But PSA has graded a 1986 Bo jackson Memphis card incorrectly many times. They are gray/silver. The fake one shows Bo looking over his shoulder throwing. That one is fake, but you can find many of them graded by PSA on EBAY right now. The correct one is a face forward still shot of him posing for the camera. The main reason I know this is that a friend of mine flew out to Memphis to see Bo play and picked up the minor league set and he bought me one.
So to BlueJay's point -- i think 99% of the time they will get the authenticity correct. according to the graders on the board, I would think a grade would be confirmed about 60% of the time. Lots of variable in the grading. But it does make you think, how viable is the grading?
Based solely on Greg Morris, raw is the new graded.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
@BLUEJAYWAY said:
Only advantage I see in grading is it verifies card is authentic. After that the assigned grade is still an arguementative issue. Either by submitter or purchaser.
If they can't get the grades right, why then assume they are correct on authenticity?
If in doubt on both points then why grade at all?
Good point. IMHO, I believe they get the authenticity correct. But PSA has graded a 1986 Bo jackson Memphis card incorrectly many times. They are gray/silver. The fake one shows Bo looking over his shoulder throwing. That one is fake, but you can find many of them graded by PSA on EBAY right now. The correct one is a face forward still shot of him posing for the camera. The main reason I know this is that a friend of mine flew out to Memphis to see Bo play and picked up the minor league set and he bought me one.
So to BlueJay's point -- i think 99% of the time they will get the authenticity correct. according to the graders on the board, I would think a grade would be confirmed about 60% of the time. Lots of variable in the grading. But it does make you think, how viable is the grading?
Based solely on Greg Morris, raw is the new graded.
I think this is a good thing. Grading companies have been trending away from keeping their customers happy and I’m glad to see something fill that gap.
Grading is nothing more than a fee-based third-party opinion fueled by the greed for the almighty dollar. As customers, you accept/reject, rejoice/complain or just quit playing the game.
@BLUEJAYWAY said:
Only advantage I see in grading is it verifies card is authentic. After that the assigned grade is still an arguementative issue. Either by submitter or purchaser.
If they can't get the grades right, why then assume they are correct on authenticity?
If in doubt on both points then why grade at all?
Good point. IMHO, I believe they get the authenticity correct. But PSA has graded a 1986 Bo jackson Memphis card incorrectly many times. They are gray/silver. The fake one shows Bo looking over his shoulder throwing. That one is fake, but you can find many of them graded by PSA on EBAY right now. The correct one is a face forward still shot of him posing for the camera. The main reason I know this is that a friend of mine flew out to Memphis to see Bo play and picked up the minor league set and he bought me one.
So to BlueJay's point -- i think 99% of the time they will get the authenticity correct. according to the graders on the board, I would think a grade would be confirmed about 60% of the time. Lots of variable in the grading. But it does make you think, how viable is the grading?
Based solely on Greg Morris, raw is the new graded.
I think this is a good thing. Grading companies have been trending away from keeping their customers happy and I’m glad to see something fill that gap.
I think this is a good thing. Grading companies have been trending away from keeping smaller customers happy and I’m glad to see something fill that gap.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
I am going to send my first order to SGC - sending 25 vintage cards. This will be my first order through them. I am willing to try them as I am frustrated with PSA slow service - one month to open packages for grading, poor customer service, inaccurate grades, and the pricing structure
@BLUEJAYWAY said:
Only advantage I see in grading is it verifies card is authentic. After that the assigned grade is still an arguementative issue. Either by submitter or purchaser.
If they can't get the grades right, why then assume they are correct on authenticity?
If in doubt on both points then why grade at all?
Good point. IMHO, I believe they get the authenticity correct. But PSA has graded a 1986 Bo jackson Memphis card incorrectly many times. They are gray/silver. The fake one shows Bo looking over his shoulder throwing. That one is fake, but you can find many of them graded by PSA on EBAY right now. The correct one is a face forward still shot of him posing for the camera. The main reason I know this is that a friend of mine flew out to Memphis to see Bo play and picked up the minor league set and he bought me one.
So to BlueJay's point -- i think 99% of the time they will get the authenticity correct. according to the graders on the board, I would think a grade would be confirmed about 60% of the time. Lots of variable in the grading. But it does make you think, how viable is the grading?
Based solely on Greg Morris, raw is the new graded.
I think this is a good thing. Grading companies have been trending away from keeping their customers happy and I’m glad to see something fill that gap.
I think this is a good thing. Grading companies have been trending away from keeping smaller customers happy and I’m glad to see something fill that gap.
I think they're OK with the smaller modern customer.
Grading Company's favorite customer (and there are countless posts on reddit similar to this):
redditor 1: I just ripped this $25 pack and got this Blue Shimmer Wave Refractor /199 of Johnny Nobody!!
redditor 2: SICK PULL!! BLAZER!! That card is FIRE!! What do you think it will grade?
redditor 1: I have NO idea, but I already sent it in. Hope it gets a 10.
Well wish me luck, I sent in about 30 1979-89 OPC hockey and baseball. A nice 79 Brett and Ozzie, a few nice 85 OPC BB. My B pile but at 12 bucks and considering how hard it is to sell mint cards raw, worth the roll of the dice.
@80sOPC said:
Well wish me luck, I sent in about 30 1979-89 OPC hockey and baseball. A nice 79 Brett and Ozzie, a few nice 85 OPC BB. My B pile but at 12 bucks and considering how hard it is to sell mint cards raw, worth the roll of the dice.
I can't give away late 70s OPC baseball in SGC holders.
Looks like only PSA registry guys are interested in 70s OPC baseball and they're buying only PSA.
Only the biggest name HOFers seem to have a shot at some interest if in an SGC holder.
I’ve sold lots of BB and Hockey from that era in SGC holders. PSA prices are better but SGC sells for more than the delta between raw and the grading fees at SGC.
Love PSA but I won’t sub again until they can establish some semblance of reasonable customer service and turn times.
Figuring in grading costs and time investment I would not spend $15 or so. To sell that same card for $35. Just sell it raw for $15-$20 and save your time. Just the economics of it. Only advantage to grading is securing it's authenticity. Even with the grade noted, many buyers and sellers disagree with the final designation. Just like it's done with raw cards.
Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
@BBBrkrr said:
C'mon, man. You should be crazy-happy with those.
I would have been happy with the Carew and Payton grades alone. The colors on that Carew are amazing.
Those are all some cool things to have. 2 thumbs up.
Thanks. Good point. And I am happy the more time passes. How I felt gets a little clouded by what I didn't show. So I'll share some of the bummers too, which I think can help everyone get an idea of what to expect from them from different types of cards, sets, years. But at the end of the day, you are right. I am moving closer to crazy happy. Lot of stuff I love in this batch. And can walk away with a lesson learned on what makes sense to submit and what not. Value there. And realizing the ones that were less than expectations were not a huge number. I just wanted a nice grade on a USFL card. Thought Hebert had a shot. On ET I know it has a red dot but there is an alien in the sky so thought it could blend in.
UlyssesExtravaganza had some nice grades in part I of the post but the part II above just doesn't make sense to me. The Langston and ET cards are grossly under graded.
Is there a way to see which grader, or graders, graded what?
Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
Is there a way to see which grader, or graders, graded what?
I'm not aware of a way to do that with either SGC or PSA. But this was all the same batch so I assumed it was the same person with both. My takeaway is just okay I am probably not going to win submitting certain sets and years. I decided about a year ago I'm not going to buy raw 50s with the intention of submitting for grading to anybody. Probably very limited with 60s 70s.
Now I think that is probably true with most 80s. Its probably tough for people with good stuff lying around. But I have very few quality raw candidates now. So its easier to say I probably will slow down or stop buying older raw or busting open older packs. We do see successes from people here but I dont expect to be that lucky consistently.
Cant complain about my order here. Just not sure I can win on a regular basis in those older years. That 87 Football American UK box I think I was just very fortunate. The first 10 packs were excellent. What came after was off center and probably more the norm. Some of the crossovers were excellent but they were already in PSA 9 holders.
I think modern can easily be a winner. Just dont think personally I have great projects in mind there now. Feels like busting boxes is usually a lose money proposition but even hand-picking individual cards and guessing can be a whiff depending on the timing. Sold some Will Levis and Puka Nacua cards on the cheap after buying them when there was more hype. You can get nice grades on modern but you can also guess wrong. 😄
@BLUEJAYWAY said:
Only advantage I see in grading is it verifies card is authentic. After that the assigned grade is still an arguementative issue. Either by submitter or purchaser.
If they can't get the grades right, why then assume they are correct on authenticity?
If in doubt on both points then why grade at all?
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Since I haven't been selling, I don't.
I no longer "need" items for my personal collection to have a grade. It was fun for a while, but I'm not spending $1,500.00 to get twenty $5.00 bottle caps graded. PSA obviously doesn't want to grade them, fine with me.
Sellers need to have their cards graded, at least at a certain value.
I buy graded if the price is right. Often at a price lower than it would cost to grade them.
No guessing on what's a 9 or what's a 10.
I do have a few that I'll eventually send in, but nothing like before.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
It definitely makes you mad, when you get 4 3's on cards that look like 7 or 8. Not sure why they grade the cards so hard. Then you will see an off centered 10 and think, I couldn't get a 7 on that.
It definitely makes you mad, when you get 4 3's on cards that look like 7 or 8. Not sure why they grade the cards so hard. Then you will see an off centered 10 and think, I couldn't get a 7 on that.
See my sig!
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Comments
They dont want this type of business. They want modern.
I thought Moderns are PSA's cash cow.
With the lower resale SGC seemed more geared to collector's rather than sellers.
Are you folks saying all CU wants are Moderns ? Seems to make more sense to have SGC focus more on vintage thus shunting Moderns to the higher priced PSA
I stopped sending in cards for grading many years ago.
It was just too inconsistent. Bad grades were just explained away as "you got the grader of death" and you just needed to "crack and resubmit". Now, any raw cards I but stay that way and if I need a card in a PSA or SGC holder, I just buy it that way. Much simpler.
I like SGC for modern cards too and they are good for research. Their ability to do the odd size has PSA beat hands down. I feel like SGC needs to people please still and PSA couldn't care less about it so it's just pump them out... I just wish they spruce up the flip little.. Center the SGC? add a little color? black on black is ugly!!
ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
Only advantage I see in grading is it verifies card is authentic. After that the assigned grade is still an arguementative issue. Either by submitter or purchaser.
Raw, raw, sis-boom-bah.
All is fair in love and war and third party grading.
I guess what I am trying to say is its not an issue of which company wants to grade vintage. I think neither wants to grade vintage. I can just see it being more expensive to grade a vintage card. I think it takes more time. Could be wrong but it feels true. Can maybe teach a 23-year-old with no previous experience at a junior salary to grade these TCGs with no corners that they are maybe familiar with. Or maybe familiar with Panini Prizms or Topps Chrome with thick strong card stock that wears less and is brand new. It just feels to me if someone submits 100 2024 Panini Prizm football, a junior employee can pound through those. Quickly size up centering, make sure there are no indentations, corners and edges probably often razor sharp. Think you can reach a decision on a grade pretty quick.
With vintage its like there is some paper loss, how much paper loss. Corner wear, how do you quantify exactly how much wear there is, how many microscopic grains of card stock have disappeared. There is a ding, how much of a ding, just like the corner wear its tough to say so obviously that is a 5 ding vs. a 4 ding. That round corner is no doubt a 6 and not a 5. I feel the wear on old cards takes so many angles into account and is so subjective and would be so time-consuming compared to modern. It can be fun for us as a hobby and we can take our time with it but a business maybe appreciates it less. Jayden Daniels rookie, centered sharp corners, no print issues no dents, 90 seconds later its a 10. Or a 9. Maybe 2 to 3 times quicker. So if you can grade more of card A in an hour than card B better business to try to get more of card A.
I would think they just raise the price on the ones that cost them more to grade. Which I think does come out with TCG. Cheaper to grade because they want that. And then with specials its usually cheaper for modern and modern more often. Maybe this way of trying to reduce vintage business is a little passive aggressive. I dont think they can say we wont grade vintage anymore. Stop sending it. Probably too much backlash. But they can just make you hate the experience and hope you stop giving them that kind of business and I think so far its been pretty effective. For PSA. Message received here.
PSA vs. SGC, I dont know. That is confusing to me. Because now, they really are the same thing. How much independence does the left arm have from the rest of the body. Time will tell. But over time, I'm not very optimistic they will seem different which I think is sad. I think you already see it a bit. Before the acquisition sure SGC can take a PSA card and say yeah they botched it, we will go 2 grades higher. Harder to do that with Dad looking over your shoulder saying are you sure you think WE were two grades off.
"Before the acquisition sure SGC can take a PSA card and say yeah they botched it, we will go 2 grades higher. Harder to do that with Dad looking over your shoulder saying are you sure you think WE were two grades off."
I don't think factors in much, as 99% of people crack a card out before resubmitting, so no way to know a card now at SGC was previously in a PSA holder...
I am the 1% that close to never cracks out of a holder and resubmits. I just feel that grade has to be preserved if its a nice card. If its a 9, and a nice valuable 9, with the way things have gotten stricter I cant take a chance that it comes back an 8 from SGC, then I say oh no I want my 9 back from PSA, let me crack and pay more fees and more postage and more insurance and they say 7 or Minimum Size Not Met. I agree with your point if it is 1% and I am it but through my eyes I play the game that way, close to no cracking. Even though I felt like I found a nice $7 pair of slab killers on Temu. 😂
I have 8 cards that are crossover candidates that SGC should be receiving today. Still in the original holders. Last time I submitted for crossover consideration none got the bump that were not a 9 to 9.5 situation. And hey, I love getting those. I will take that all day. I love the Mint+ grade. But anything that was an 8 or lower it was no, PSA got it right. Pre-acquisition PSA was wrong all over the place in their opinion. This time I did have some 8s in there but if I whiff, that game is over. It will just be 9s trying to be 9.5s where it can be justified and not be a bad look because its a grade PSA does not have.
I'll let everybody know when the results come in, on the crossovers and the raw cards sent in.
https://www.temu.com/multi-functional-industrial-pliers-strong-wire-pliers-household-pliers-family--a--g-601099722503300.html
For those who like to crack. 😄 Maybe even I will give it a shot.
After I posted, I see this version sold out but see some other options.
Plus it wouldn't hurt to make the cert # just a tad larger. Good lord I have to take a picture of the card and enlarge it to read the cert.
I agree and also like that there is no rail or bumper blocking and shadowing the edge of the card..
ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
The modern stuff doesn’t look so bad in SGC!! Hoping they allow combined company registry here soon!! Then add some color to the flip…
ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
After looking at thousands of graded and non-graded cards in my life -- here is just some thoughts for the graders.
1) what does the card look like just to view it in your hand/card saver -- without magnification.
2) If it's not really centered it's not an 8.5 and up
3) Use common sense (above the roy white is a 3 and then the old goudey card is a 3, huh?)
4) have consistent rules (this is the one that we are pist about) -- looks like for company profits, if someone is breathing and wants to grade -- have at it.
5) for the 1991 cards and back, unless there are very visable issues with the cardboard itself, don't put a lot of consideration into that portion. a very small "place" in the card should only hold a 1 -2 point decrease, not 3 - 5 points.
6) small "spider veins" are not creases. maybe the card isn't a 10, but it doesn't have to go down to a 4 or 5 either.
7) it appears the biggest issue are the grading standards. If it's 60/40 and 70/30 on back it's a 10 (if everything else is ok). But when you and I look at those type of 10's we don't see 10, we see 8 or maybe 9. This feels like the elephant in the room to me. Without a 10 pristine for PSA, you can get a centered 10 or one that is a little off centered. Should both be a 10? Should one be a 9? Should one be pristine?
8) buy the card, not the holder/grade. But should it really be this way? Aren't we paying money to have a fixed grade that over 50% of the pop should agree on? Like above, most of feel like the White is much better than a 3, shouldn't I be able to get a cursory review and a new grade for free? Or at least be able to get money back for something that looks this egregious?
9) you and I place emphasis on many of the items above and deservedly so. Unfortunately, it's hard to get it to go our way.
Seem to be at the point or Vintage where what has always been a 4 or below remains same. BUT what used to be and deserves to be a 7, 8, 8.5,9, 9.5, 10 are now too 3s and 4s.
That folks is cognitive dissonance
So I got my results back from SGC. Overall think I am pleased. There were a few I feel really good about and think that tips it into a nice experience. I will share the nice and the best which skews how it looks. But there were a lot of duds. 59 raw submitted. 7 graded cards for crossover.
I continue to have learning experiences. Most of the cards that were on traditional 80s and earlier card stock got killed. Had an 85 Topps Langston that to me looked maybe Gem Mint but it was a 7. 1985 USFL different card stock but feel that was just a you aren't getting nice grades on cards that old that are condition sensitive thing. 7s and 8s when I was thinking some 9s,
1987 Topps Football American/UK I was very happy with but felt they were deserving. Stronger card stock and centered nicely and pack fresh with strong corners and edges. Very happy about the Rice and Dickerson. Felt these grades were fair but dont see myself rolling the dice again. I am for the most part going to try to stop submitting older cards to anybody.
Non-sports E.T. Simpsons with that cereal box type of card, results bad. But do love the 9.5 Simpsons family sticker.
One of my favorite things was 3 of the 7 crossovers bumped up into SGC 9.5 Mint+ territory where they were originally PSA 9s. Bought the 1980 Payton thinking maybe it had a shot. Then love the Carew as a 9.5. Shohei was a bump too and cant complain on that.
Modern I was pleased as usual and not surprised too much.
C'mon, man. You should be crazy-happy with those.
I would have been happy with the Carew and Payton grades alone. The colors on that Carew are amazing.
Those are all some cool things to have. 2 thumbs up.
Great results. Love the 1987 Jerry Rice!
looking at those 87 topps football cards great cards! i might have to get me a full set of 87 topps football.
Thanks. Good point. And I am happy the more time passes. How I felt gets a little clouded by what I didn't show. So I'll share some of the bummers too, which I think can help everyone get an idea of what to expect from them from different types of cards, sets, years. But at the end of the day, you are right. I am moving closer to crazy happy. Lot of stuff I love in this batch. And can walk away with a lesson learned on what makes sense to submit and what not. Value there. And realizing the ones that were less than expectations were not a huge number. I just wanted a nice grade on a USFL card. Thought Hebert had a shot. On ET I know it has a red dot but there is an alien in the sky so thought it could blend in.
I don't think there was a cooler cat in the entire world during the 70s/early 80s than James Rodney. RIP.
Yeah, huge fan of J.R. and love that card. I do have that one in a PSA 10 and love it. But was hoping maybe that one would get a generous grade. I see flaws though. Cant blame them. J.R. was probably the first baseball player I was a fan of because I started watching in 1980 and he was just so dominant until he had the stroke. Him and George Brett. I would only realize after many years flirting with .400 and hitting .390 was not normal. But both players were a great intro to the sport.
If they can't get the grades right, why then assume they are correct on authenticity?
Not sure if those go hand and hand really. Maybe it's easier for a consensus on authenticity, then it is for grade.
Ulyssess -- i just got the first 10 on the rice about a month ago and then you get another one. Hurts my mv bruh. LOL!! nice job on the UK's.
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It may be harder to determine if a card has been trimmed than to determine a number grade.
Graders disagree on the exact same grade on a card, and that's going to be a bit subjective.
Authentic isn't subjective. They miss some. I have a card in my set that's a fake. Thankfully, I have another that's not.
Yeah, I remember you mentioning that. Sorry. If I could have got the Payton as a PSA 10 instead and left yours POP 1 I would.
But hey we control the POP now. I can list mine for $10,000 and you can list yours for $9,999. I plan to keep mine in the PC for a while so if you sell it will be the only one on the market.
Thanks. Was surprised they came out that well.
If in doubt on both points then why grade at all?
Good point. IMHO, I believe they get the authenticity correct. But PSA has graded a 1986 Bo jackson Memphis card incorrectly many times. They are gray/silver. The fake one shows Bo looking over his shoulder throwing. That one is fake, but you can find many of them graded by PSA on EBAY right now. The correct one is a face forward still shot of him posing for the camera. The main reason I know this is that a friend of mine flew out to Memphis to see Bo play and picked up the minor league set and he bought me one.
So to BlueJay's point -- i think 99% of the time they will get the authenticity correct. according to the graders on the board, I would think a grade would be confirmed about 60% of the time. Lots of variable in the grading. But it does make you think, how viable is the grading?
Based solely on Greg Morris, raw is the new graded.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
I think this is a good thing. Grading companies have been trending away from keeping their customers happy and I’m glad to see something fill that gap.
Grading is nothing more than a fee-based third-party opinion fueled by the greed for the almighty dollar. As customers, you accept/reject, rejoice/complain or just quit playing the game.
I think this is a good thing. Grading companies have been trending away from keeping smaller customers happy and I’m glad to see something fill that gap.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
I am going to send my first order to SGC - sending 25 vintage cards. This will be my first order through them. I am willing to try them as I am frustrated with PSA slow service - one month to open packages for grading, poor customer service, inaccurate grades, and the pricing structure
.> @82FootballWaxMemorys said:
I think they're OK with the smaller modern customer.
Grading Company's favorite customer (and there are countless posts on reddit similar to this):
redditor 1: I just ripped this $25 pack and got this Blue Shimmer Wave Refractor /199 of Johnny Nobody!!
redditor 2: SICK PULL!! BLAZER!! That card is FIRE!! What do you think it will grade?
redditor 1: I have NO idea, but I already sent it in. Hope it gets a 10.
Well wish me luck, I sent in about 30 1979-89 OPC hockey and baseball. A nice 79 Brett and Ozzie, a few nice 85 OPC BB. My B pile but at 12 bucks and considering how hard it is to sell mint cards raw, worth the roll of the dice.
I can't give away late 70s OPC baseball in SGC holders.
Looks like only PSA registry guys are interested in 70s OPC baseball and they're buying only PSA.
Only the biggest name HOFers seem to have a shot at some interest if in an SGC holder.
I’ve sold lots of BB and Hockey from that era in SGC holders. PSA prices are better but SGC sells for more than the delta between raw and the grading fees at SGC.
Love PSA but I won’t sub again until they can establish some semblance of reasonable customer service and turn times.
Figuring in grading costs and time investment I would not spend $15 or so. To sell that same card for $35. Just sell it raw for $15-$20 and save your time. Just the economics of it. Only advantage to grading is securing it's authenticity. Even with the grade noted, many buyers and sellers disagree with the final designation. Just like it's done with raw cards.
UlyssesExtravaganza had some nice grades in part I of the post but the part II above just doesn't make sense to me. The Langston and ET cards are grossly under graded.
Is there a way to see which grader, or graders, graded what?
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
the ET card looks like a 9 or 10.
I'm not aware of a way to do that with either SGC or PSA. But this was all the same batch so I assumed it was the same person with both. My takeaway is just okay I am probably not going to win submitting certain sets and years. I decided about a year ago I'm not going to buy raw 50s with the intention of submitting for grading to anybody. Probably very limited with 60s 70s.
Now I think that is probably true with most 80s. Its probably tough for people with good stuff lying around. But I have very few quality raw candidates now. So its easier to say I probably will slow down or stop buying older raw or busting open older packs. We do see successes from people here but I dont expect to be that lucky consistently.
Cant complain about my order here. Just not sure I can win on a regular basis in those older years. That 87 Football American UK box I think I was just very fortunate. The first 10 packs were excellent. What came after was off center and probably more the norm. Some of the crossovers were excellent but they were already in PSA 9 holders.
I think modern can easily be a winner. Just dont think personally I have great projects in mind there now. Feels like busting boxes is usually a lose money proposition but even hand-picking individual cards and guessing can be a whiff depending on the timing. Sold some Will Levis and Puka Nacua cards on the cheap after buying them when there was more hype. You can get nice grades on modern but you can also guess wrong. 😄
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Since I haven't been selling, I don't.
I no longer "need" items for my personal collection to have a grade. It was fun for a while, but I'm not spending $1,500.00 to get twenty $5.00 bottle caps graded. PSA obviously doesn't want to grade them, fine with me.
Sellers need to have their cards graded, at least at a certain value.
I buy graded if the price is right. Often at a price lower than it would cost to grade them.
No guessing on what's a 9 or what's a 10.
I do have a few that I'll eventually send in, but nothing like before.
Joe,
It definitely makes you mad, when you get 4 3's on cards that look like 7 or 8. Not sure why they grade the cards so hard. Then you will see an off centered 10 and think, I couldn't get a 7 on that.
See my sig!
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
The 7 on eBay and my self subbed 5? Just sayin..... Thinking about cracking and subbing to SGC.
ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
yeah the 5 looks like a 6.5 - 7.5
please check out the buy it page, i need a nolan ryan