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Is platinum now a better buy than gold?

tincuptincup Posts: 5,187 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited November 21, 2024 7:44PM in Precious Metals

Since it appears that internal combustion engine vehicles may now likely continue to be produced, and perhaps in increasing numbers, given the direction the country may be heading....

Demand cound increase for the platinum metals again. Gold is likely to remain on an increasing trend for a while yet... but perhaps platinum may see some good increases if industrial demand picks back up?

----- kj

Comments

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 19,187 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I like platinum.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,961 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I wouldn't expect any big increase in demand. Combustion engines will continue to go the way of the dinosaurs.

    That said current demand for the Pt outstrips supply and when compared to the gutter metal the ratio suggests it's a screaming buy. It is not a premium friendly metal so if investing, one is best to stick with the paper version. I must confess I failed to follow my own advice and have recently added a few physical ozT in addition to the paper version. RGDS!

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
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  • tincuptincup Posts: 5,187 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @blitzdude said:
    I wouldn't expect any big increase in demand. Combustion engines will continue to go the way of the dinosaurs.

    That said current demand for the Pt outstrips supply and when compared to the gutter metal the ratio suggests it's a screaming buy. It is not a premium friendly metal so if investing, one is best to stick with the paper version. I must confess I failed to follow my own advice and have recently added a few physical ozT in addition to the paper version. RGDS!

    I have to admit that premium that seems to go with platinum gives one pause. Probably would take a rather large increase in the price before one could recoup that amount with any sellback. Much as I prefer 'physical' rather than 'paper', platinum may be the exception.

    ----- kj
  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,899 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Platinum has been lackluster for some time now, but it's also undervalued. For investment purposes, it must overcome a larger spread just to break even, but it's 10X scarcer than gold and it has industrial uses that make it attractive.

    Taking those factors into consideration, I would expect gold to have a more certain positive near term outlook based on gold's fundamentals including central bank buying, interest in backing a BRICS trade unit and gold's current upward momentum having recently bounced off of its 100 day moving average. Several big banks have forecast higher gold prices as well.

    I like platinum and it will have its day, but right now it's about gold and soon, silver.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • AzurescensAzurescens Posts: 2,762 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmski52 said:
    Platinum has been lackluster for some time now, but it's also undervalued. For investment purposes, it must overcome a larger spread just to break even, but it's 10X scarcer than gold and it has industrial uses that make it attractive.

    Taking those factors into consideration, I would expect gold to have a more certain positive near term outlook based on gold's fundamentals including central bank buying, interest in backing a BRICS trade unit and gold's current upward momentum having recently bounced off of its 100 day moving average. Several big banks have forecast higher gold prices as well.

    I like platinum and it will have its day, but right now it's about gold and soon, silver.

    To piggy back on this, I think a lot of platinum's higher prices back in the day were due to its popularity in culture.

    When we saw $2250/oz, life was all about huge platinum chains and dental implants which caused a massive spike in demand. People rapped about platinum, people coated their gold in platinum, bought platinum wedding rings and wanted platinum teeth.

    That being said, I don't think we will see anything like those glory days any time soon. However, I believe it is a very volatile metal.

    To me, its attractiveness is that - when it explodes (not if) - it is going to be a doozy of a day. So I guess it boils down to the question: are you patient enough?

    I'm very long on platinum and buy deals when I see it because I think it is undervalued. I'm 40 and believe I'll see a nice payday in my lifetime.

  • WCCWCC Posts: 2,619 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm not interested in platinum or palladium now.

    But palladium spot was about $140 (2005 to my recollection but maybe not), I declined to buy it because the premium on 1oz bars (no coins then that I know) was $30 or 20%+.

    I should have bought it anyway.

  • DoubleEagle59DoubleEagle59 Posts: 8,325 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I like Platinum and have made a purchase or two recently.

    Big historical discount when compared to gold, but will it climb to its former PM heights?

    I think so, but who knows when.

    "Gold is money, and nothing else" (JP Morgan, 1912)

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  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 10,244 ✭✭✭✭✭

    catalytic converter prices are trash. platinum will under perform unless some new tech suddenly depends on it

    as far as the coins go besides the US mint did anyone ever make money?

    I've owned a few and found the hard to buy because of premiums and very hard to sell for the same reason.

    Paying +20% each way is suicide

  • WCCWCC Posts: 2,619 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @bronco2078 said:
    catalytic converter prices are trash. platinum will under perform unless some new tech suddenly depends on it

    as far as the coins go besides the US mint did anyone ever make money?

    I've owned a few and found the hard to buy because of premiums and very hard to sell for the same reason.

    Paying +20% each way is suicide

    I don't believe there is much of a hobbyist collector base for it. More for the fractionals because it's more affordable, but there is always demand for a low mintage but not actually scarce US NCLT. It's my inference there are more buyers due to the mintage for speculation than buying it because it's wanted as a collectible.

    Above is from reading the two books written by the author of that mega thread.

  • Platinum could see a boost in demand if internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicles continue to be produced in higher numbers, as platinum is a key component in catalytic converters. If industrial demand picks up, especially in automotive and other sectors, platinum may experience growth. While gold is traditionally seen as a safe haven and likely to maintain its upward trend, platinum's industrial uses give it potential for significant price increases if the market strengthens. It’s definitely worth keeping an eye on both metals, as they could perform differently depending on market shifts.

  • GoldFinger1969GoldFinger1969 Posts: 1,896 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Deathstar_69 said:
    Platinum could see a boost in demand if internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicles continue to be produced in higher numbers, as platinum is a key component in catalytic converters. If industrial demand picks up, especially in automotive and other sectors, platinum may experience growth. While gold is traditionally seen as a safe haven and likely to maintain its upward trend, platinum's industrial uses give it potential for significant price increases if the market strengthens. It’s definitely worth keeping an eye on both metals, as they could perform differently depending on market shifts.

    I think that while ICE is going to be here higher and longer...it's STILL a slow decline....look at China, impacting oil demand as 50% of their new vehicle sales are EVs (in the U.S. I think it is 4%).

    I wouldn't want to be long the WMGs especially if Russia opens the floodgates to stockpiles. The production of these white metals is so concentrated on non-transparent suppliers it's all one big guessing game.

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,899 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 18, 2024 6:54PM

    Platinum is really good at resisting electrical erosion and as a catalyst, it is preferred (along with palladium) in quite a few chemical processes.

    As far as automotive, it's going to be awhile before the EV pipedream can economically compete especially considering that the expensive infrastructure that EVs require is nowhere it needs to be to support general use. Not to mention that the environmental impact of EVs isn't what it's been hyped up to be when it's all said and done.

    One of the reasons that platinum is expensive is that there aren't many substitutes for it and it's expensive to dig out of the ground at the depths where it is found.

    I understand that Asians like platinum jewelry, so that market might also be a growing influence.

    In terms of potential, I think silver has a better shot at making a good run than platinum - and I like platinum alot.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,945 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmski52 said:

    In terms of potential, I think silver has a better shot at making a good run than platinum - and I like platinum alot.

    Because it is a good alternative to more expensive PMs - a poor man's gold.

    The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong

  • tincuptincup Posts: 5,187 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:

    @jmski52 said:

    In terms of potential, I think silver has a better shot at making a good run than platinum - and I like platinum alot.

    Because it is a good alternative to more expensive PMs - a poor man's gold.

    Absolutely! It is a way for many more individuals to at least make a start in holding some metal, however small the investment.

    ----- kj
  • GoldFinger1969GoldFinger1969 Posts: 1,896 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Jmski, don't you think that the traditional platinum/palladium sources of demand are in SECULAR decline such that nominal boosts from jewelry or other items will NOT be able to offset it ?

    The bubble in the WMG from 1990-2015 far exceeded gold or silver.

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,899 ✭✭✭✭✭

    don't you think that the traditional platinum/palladium sources of demand are in SECULAR decline

    Not until we run out of fossil fuels and it's a dubious proposition anyhow that EVs are ever going to become transportation for the masses. The masses won't be able to afford it.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • GoldFinger1969GoldFinger1969 Posts: 1,896 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmski52 said:
    Not until we run out of fossil fuels and it's a dubious proposition anyhow that EVs are ever going to become >transportation for the masses. The masses won't be able to afford it.

    The Greens and eco-nuts projections were certainly off, but there's no doubt that with 50% of new vehicles in China (world's #1 car market) being EVs that they are grabbing global market share. Look at the distress in the German auto market.

    ICE will certainly have longer and higher staying power....but I'm not sure that's enough to help the prices for the WMGs.

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,899 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 20, 2024 5:17AM

    I'm not sure that's enough to help the prices for the WMGs.

    Considering the specific uses for WMGs, in most cases there are no substitutes and it's not likely that new mining sources will be found any time soon.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • tincuptincup Posts: 5,187 ✭✭✭✭✭

    As for platinum... remains interesting to me. Especially when one looks at where the supply comes from. South Africa and Russia are by far the main producers, so any disruption from those countries certainly would affect the price. And coupled with potential increasing industrial demand.... rather bullish.

    The down sides? Those premiums on the platinum coins.... and perhaps the ability to easily liquidate or cash in without a discount from melt.

    ----- kj
  • tincuptincup Posts: 5,187 ✭✭✭✭✭

    And... I am not quite of the opinion that it is a matter of time... before EV's replace the internal combustion engine. Perhaps feasible for those who live in metro areas... but there is a lot of wide open areas that EV's just don't cut it. There is also the ignored issue of the electrical supply system being able to recharge the whole nation... where is that coming from.

    Or... EV's may be somewhat practical in areas with moderate climate such as the west coast. But not here in the frigid midwest! When temp gets cold enough... large electric bill just to keep the batteries warm... not good to let them freeze.

    ----- kj
  • tincuptincup Posts: 5,187 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I suspect the reason that the EU and China have so many EV's.... and traditional auto makers are in trouble.... may just be partly due to 'mandates' and EV's being 'forced' on the population? Just sayin'...

    ----- kj
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