1887 Off-Center Brockage Morgan Dollar!
Zoins
Posts: 34,115 ✭✭✭✭✭
Zoins
Posts: 34,115 ✭✭✭✭✭
Zoins
Posts: 34,115 ✭✭✭✭✭
Comments
That is one cool error coin. I'd love to own it.
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
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@Zoins
Is that your new addition? It’s wonderful.
Fantastic error – must be a new discovery. I’m not aware of it.
(was this pictured in the Don Taxay book 50 yrs. Ago?)
for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
Wonder error. I’m sure it’s as rare as hen’s teeth!
Double DANG!
Not an error guy here, but that is exceptional. Must be extremely rare for a coin that size and that dramatic an error to make it out of the mint.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
😎
Mint Error News published this new discovery on Sept 9th in issue 73 of the magazine, and as an article.
Mint Error News has the exclusive images of the coin raw, prior to being submitted to PCGS. It had very heavy toning.
https://minterrornews.com/discoveries-9-9-24-pcgs-certifies-1887-morgan-dollar-struck-off-center-with-a-brockage-reverse-ms-63.html
It is being auctioned today at SB:
https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-1DU6GQ/1887-morgan-silver-dollar-brockage-struck-55-off-center-ms-63-pcgs-cmq
Absolutely wild!
First off...amazing coin!
Couple questions on areas that I'm admittedly an extreme novice.
The 63 seems generous. I'm not at all familiar with grading mint errors. Does seem accurate?
Also, how does a coin that previously had heavy toning get a straight grade? I would assume some "conservation" was done on this coin as opposed to "cleaning"?
Thanks for the clarification from the experts!
I give it an MS-63 obverse and Negative MS-63 reverse.
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
Tons of coins with very heavy toning are conserved at PCGS and NGC, and straight graded.
Yeah, I get that. I had been out of the numismatic hobby for a few years and it was a hard concept to wrap my head around coming back in. On the sports card side of things, "conservation" would be considered altering which is highly frowned upon Within numismatics, art, etc, it is a widely accepted practice.
I wasn't sure if all conserved coins are straight graded with no reference to the prior conservation. Would make sense if it was somehow referenced on a slab when encapsulated.
Appreciate the response!
Remarkable! If coins could talk, this one would probably start off with "ouch" then continue with its story.
Is the heavy toning noted in your photos? I see the light toning on the obverse matching the auction photos, but perhaps the reverse (incuse side) is slightly darker on the left half of the unstruck portion. Is that the heavy toning you are referring to?
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
BHNC #AN-10
JRCS #1606
It was completely original with heavy toning on both sides. The comparison photos side by side show the difference.
@Byers
I don't mean to oppose and defend the coin, I am more curious than anything. I also held this coin raw in hand before certification and the coin looks exactly the same. It looks like a lighting difference between the Stack's photos and your photos. Stack's photos can tend to be bright sometimes, which may add to the change in appearance.
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
BHNC #AN-10
JRCS #1606
I have not viewed it in the PCGS holder. Anything is possible. Maybe you are correct.
Not that it really matters, but how was this identified as an 1887, rather than an 1887-S or 1887-O?
I think the holder should read 1887( )
Again, it doesn't really matter.
Collector, occasional seller
Good question. VAM variety perhaps?
There's a non-zero chance the mint could be attributed from the date. There are several repunched and misplaced dates in 1887 that could indicate which mint made it.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
I like to think it's the one and only 1887-CC.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Flippin phenomenal Morgan error
ANA LM
USAF Retired — 34 years of active military service! 🇺🇸
I’m just checking up on my error knowledge here.
So for this coin occur, there had to be two consecutive, nearly identical off center strikes, right? The first one became a die cap, which then struck the coin we’re all admiring here.
Have I got that correct?
Ali will have them next week.
No. The first strike is normal, centered between the dies, but the coin did not exit the dies. The second planchet came in partly overlapping the first coin, and directly underneath the part of the obverse die that struck the area being covered, and the obverse die descended, striking this coin between part of the obverse die and the corresponding part of the previously struck coin. The previously struck coin sank the covered part of its design into the second coin.
@CaptHenway
Thanks for the explanation, much appreciated! Guess that shows how much work my error knowledge needs.
Sounds cheap!
If you know your series well, it’s pretty easy to identify the mint of most coins without flipping them over to see the mintmark, and it’s even easier with mint state coins. In the case of this brockage, I think any Morgan Dollar expert would instantly know it’s a Philly product.
Also, I saw the coin in hand and don’t think the toning has been lightened in any way. Maybe some residue was removed and that affected the look - I don’t know about that - but the toning and luster seemed very natural.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Andy- a distinction needs to be made between ‘coin in hand’ and ‘slab in hand’.
I saw the coin in hand, you saw the slab in hand.
Only SB saw the coin in hand and the slab in hand.
You state that “ I saw the coin in hand and don’t think the toning has been lightened in any way”.
So does it look like the Mint Error News image or the SB image, with the slab in your hand???
Yes!
My guess was 100k.
Correct. I never saw the coin out of the holder. Anyway, I think the coin looks most like the PCGS photo above.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
It’s definitely an amazing mint error!
Absolutely!
WOW, nice mint error. I think every collector should has some kind of mint error in his/her collection.
US mint error always gets the top dollar compared to other country’s mint error. This gold coin sold for 18k this month at ha. If is US or Chinese coin it should be 100k or higher
Not sure it helps but I put together the pictures a little better. The Mint error news one is not as refined and I think a little out of focus(?).
Here are MEN and TV and then TV and Stacks (these two are more similar but can note some lighting type shifting).
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https://youtube.com/watch?v=_KWVk0XeB9o - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Piece Of My Heart
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https://youtube.com/watch?v=D0FPxuQv2ns - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Maybe I'm Amazed
RLJ 1958 - 2023
All I can tell myself is that it's not flashy enough for an S coin. Regarding strike, all bets are off when you're dealing with errors. Anyone looking for a 45 Mercury dime with full bands that opts for a broadstrike will attest to that.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
It’s the furthest known off center KR. I have handled a 5% off-center, (2) broadstrucks and (2) partial collars. But this one blows away everything else!
Amazing coin and wonderful result! I'm glad our hosts and @homerunhall like like it!
Great article from Mint Error News, Mike @Byers ! Love the tracking of other Morgan off centers in the article!
And wonderful Krugerrand @jt88! Amazing to see one so OC in gold!