A 1799 Large Cent
BillJones
Posts: 34,052 ✭✭✭✭✭
I have been gradually working a date set of cents from 1793 to date. The "big bear" is the 1799. This coin got its start on the road to fame when pioneer collector, Joesph Mickley, found that he couldn't find one. The date, 1799, was his birth year. That got the search going. When the U.S. Mint stopped issuing large cents in 1857,the growth of coin collecting began in The United States. Collectors quickly found that the 1799 dated coins were scarce and the price increases began.
The mint made many large cents in 1799. The trouble was most of them didn't bear that date. They were mostly dated 1798. The comparatively small number of coins that were made seem to have struck on low quality planchets. The mint received a lot planchets from England which had been soaked in bilge water in the hole of the ship. The coin blanks were dark and ugly. The mint cleaned many of those planchets, but the virgin copper that was exposed quickly darkened again.
Adding to the problem, was that the fact that the mint often did not align the dies properly in the coin press. As a result, most 1799 cents were not well struck. The weakness was either in the area of the “LIBERTY” or date on the obverse and the corresponding area on the reverse.
This piece is a PCGS VG-10. It is not a thing of beauty, but the date is strong. It's been net graded abit because of the color and surfaces, but there is no doubt as to what it is. The next "big hoss" is the 1804, which is a little easier to find.
This piece has the 1799 "mint mark" which is a die chip below the "T" in "CENT." This does not show on all 1799 cents, but it is a marker when the date is not visible. I once saw a veterian dealer pay $1,600 for a raw, dateless 1799 cent that had this marker. I've seen dealer ask of $3,000 for a certified example with was dated by this feature. I don't know if they got much for it.
The finest known 1799 cent is a PCGS MS-61 holder. It has sold for close to $1 million. The EAC guys grade that one AU-50. I image that my piece would be somewhere around Good-4 in the EAC world. Despite the lower grade, you won't get it for a lower price.
Comments
"Like" is not a good enough word to tell you how great that coin is. I'm on the hunt for one as well and they are few and far between that's for sure.
I stretched for this one when it came up - I realized it might be my only chance to pick up a ‘99 that met all my buying criteria, and at a price I could handle. I’m glad I jumped at it. Now I’m on the hunt for a similar chain cent based on grade, planchet quality and originality. Not an easy task!
http://images.goldbergauctions.com/php/lot_auc.php?site=169&sale=98&lot=260
Also, @BillJones, thanks for the interesting background on the ‘99s!
Great educational post, thanks Bill.
Looks like a nice coin - definitely has great obverse detail for a (yes, probably net graded?) “VG”
The surfaces don’t really look too bad.
30+ years coin shop experience (ret.) Coins, bullion, currency, scrap & interesting folks. Loved every minute!
@GuzziSport: great buy! I think it has lots of detail.
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
Yes, net graded, probably down from Fine -15.
OP, you can tell that I'm no expert but that coin is higher than a VG. IMO, EAC calling that coin G-4 is not grading it - they are pricing it right? Forget its value for a minute. How wrong am I if I think it should have been net graded down to a Fine-something? Someone please teach me!
OP, you can tell that I'm no expert but that coin is higher than a VG. IMO, EAC calling that coin G-4 is not grading it - they are pricing it right? Forget its value for a minute. How wrong am I if I think it should have been net graded down to a Fine-something? Someone please teach me!
The color and the surfaces are off. It may have been that way almost from the beginning because a lot of the planchets that were used to make these coins were soaked in salt water.
Choice early copper, without net grades, should look like this.
Or if it has seen quite a bit of wear, like this. This 1800 cent was once in a PCGS Fine-15 holder.
Or if you have all the money in the world, like this. This coin is graded MS-63 Brown. It's got to be a super common date and variety to get this grade very often.
This is an 1801 Three Errors reverse coin. It's a neat variety. The coin is a cleaned VG, but that's okay by me. I'm into it for short money.
The left stem missing, the fraction is 1/000 and the "U" in "United was punched twice, upside down and rightside up to make it look like "IInuited."
That's a beauty. 1799 large cents are just quintessential US coins.
Thanks for posting yours
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
Great coin! Congrats.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Great coin and acquisition!
One of my numerous regrets occurred about 12 years ago. I was given first shot at the large cents by an EAC dealer friend who acquired an old collection out of Connecticut.
It was a complete date and major variety set, albeit the coins were in a wide range of states of preservation. He kept a higher grade wreath cent and the 1804 for himself, otherwise the rest were for sale. Grades were conservative and he was using the Greysheet to price them, so I bought a lot of coins. The 93 Liberty cap and 39/6 were pricey but must haves. The budget was stretched so I could only buy one more big coin. It came down to the chain cent, problem free AG/G but dateless, and the 1799, VG and decent detail and surfaces, except for a significant gouge on the reverse. I opted for the 1799, which later turned out to be altered, good enough that it fooled several EAC dealers, but not Tom Reynolds. I was refunded the money even though it was a year later, but still regret I didn’t get the chain cent.
Tuition paid 😎
Beautiful 18th Century Wreath Cent!!
Nice Draped Bust obverse!!
That one has a lot of meat on the bone still!!
Well Done!!
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
I could see “VF Details,” but what do I know.
@BillJones I assume you've read the recent article in Penny Wise about the destruction of so many large cents since they were minted. Really adds to the rarity factor.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
Great acquisition. The second rarest Draped Bust
I've seen a lot of collectors over-examine cents hoping beyond hope that their illegible large cent may be a 1799.
Here you go @GuzziSport
I love these kind of educational posts 👍🏼
Mr_Spud
I also am looking for a 1799 Large Cent.
The price would end up in about the same place. I bid more than double what I paid for this one for a “clean Fine” and still didn’t get it. With this coin you have to take what you can afford.