Green Beans On PO1 Slabs
OAKSTAR
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Full Disclosure: I know nothing (zero) about this CAC green sticker thing. I've never been interested in it nor have I researched it. I know you guys call it a green bean and it adds some type of value to the slab.
On the opposite side of the grading spectrum, I always thought it was interesting to find a problem free, straight graded lowest possible grade (PO-1) coin.
What exactly is the point of this CAC sticker on this PO-1 slab?
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
15
Comments
I'm with you. I do not have a particular interest in it. I buy the coin, not the slab. I do own a few, but I did not seek them out specifically. As for the coin you posted, I do not understand it. A PO01 is a PO01 I thought. Does the bean add extra value?
It means that JA believes that it truly is a PO01 and not undergraded.
My Carson City Morgan Registry Set
Gold bean on an 01 is a more interesting discussion.
What's JA?
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
Perhaps it’s a spoof on the sticker game - beaning P01 material.
I discussed this with JA several years ago and the bottom line was that it was a wholesome PO1 for which he'd pay his PO1 bid of $15 (silver was under $20 at the time). He's not into lowball premiums, needless to say.
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John Albanese founder of CAC,
I really want one of those! 😂
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That would be cool. Do any even exist?
Young Numismatist • My Toned Coins
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They should, because this CACG PO1 is really a FA2:
peacockcoins
Guy in coin club got one for 50 pct of melt off online auc he says. On the p01 above wonder how much silver rubbed off from circ.
Thanks.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
When you get down to the poor1 grade range, there are easily a plethora of problems on the coin’s surface (scratches, planchet flaws, rim issues, etc) which will essentially put it into the details grade category. If you can get a wholesome problem free poor1 coin, the green sticker matters. They’re hard to get.
People get really hung up on the "solid for the grade" thing, but for my money, the greater value of CAC stickers is that they're typically only applied to coins that appear to be original. (Of course, CAC does sticker some dipped coins, as long as said coins were dipped properly, and the surfaces show no tell-tale signs of dipping). Additionally, the CAC team seems to be considerably stricter on the line between a details and a straight graded coin than other TGPs.
So, a P01 coin with a bean is a coin that shows honest wear and patina with excellent surface preservation for the grade.
Did he say if he'd sell it with the lowball premium or not?
Okay, this is why I have zero interest in this. So they're throwing new words into the pandora's box like wholesome! I thought the TPG'ers PO1 was a "wholesome" problem free coin, otherwise the slab would say detailed or cleaned or damaged.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
I don’t collect poor1 coins, but just take a look at that 1885 Morgan pictured higher in this thread. For the sake of argument let’s say it really is a poor1 and not a fair2. Look at the ugly surfaces which look pitted, and the large scratch to the left of the eagle’s wing. That is not a “wholesome” problem free coin. There are other examples of poor1 coins which have nice smooth surfaces without problems, and those would be the coins I’d want for my collection if this was my taste.
Okay, well I've gone down as deep as I can into the weeds on this without my head exploding! Thank you all for your feedback on this.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
If you collect lowball coins, wouldn't you prefer one that failed to CAC? 🤔
That makes sense. I understand they are hard to get on any coin. I think the key word is wholesome. It applies to the entire spectrum of grades PO01 all the way up to the upper echelon.
"They" didn't bring up that word, I did to summarize the appearance of a PO1 that would garner a sticker. The opposite of "wholesome" is "trashed." Somewhere in between is "ratty."
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I'd like to see a PO01+ grade.
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Maybe a wtfo grade, just saying 🤔
I don't get it. If you want the "worst" graded example, don't you want the coin that CAC has declined to sticker?
No. No sticker could be because CAC saw something about the coin that precludes it from being problem free.
A CAC sticker on a PO1 coin tells me CAC thinks it is, "all there" for the grade of PO1.
Without the sticker CAC is possibly thinking the coin isn't good enough for the PO1 grade.
It sounds a bit complex yet it really isn't.
peacockcoins
Easy as ABC
More money. To be specific.
Or a PO01 Details/Genuine?? LOL
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Yes, for CAC.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
The very best of the poor! Almost a coin oxymoron?
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Has there ever been a proof PR01 coin? The lowest I've seen is PR04.
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Tell him to call me.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
I own an 1883 FA2 proof PCGS Trade dollar.
It has since been cracked and placed in a Dansco type set.
peacockcoins
The PR04 coin I saw in an eBay listing was an 1895 Morgan. Both that one and yours were proof-only coins. By the time they are worn down that far, I wonder if it's possible to tell whether a coin started out as a business strike or a proof.
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When you're collecting lowballs, it's not so much about connoisseurship and more about the amusement. And a green sticker on a super low quality coin is kind of amusing, isn't it?
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$3,900
Using the term original is very common, however, it all depends on how you define it.
Your definition of a CAC approved Poor-1 is spot on.
It seems to me that "original" should be equivalent to "as struck". But strictly speaking, we'll never have such coins. So, we allow ourselves to use words improperly, eventually resulting in substantive changes in the common understanding of those words.
Collector of Liberty Seated Half Dimes, including die pairs and die states
To me "original" means not tampered with - not cleaned, dipped, defaced, or artificially enhanced or toned. Bagmarks from contact with other coins is acceptable, as is toning attributable to the coin's age and metallic composition, and the appearance of wear attributable to normal circulation (which is the reason we have grades below 60).
Words and their meanings evolve over time, as does the proper use of them.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Absolutely. I am just a bit dismayed that it seems to be happening so quickly lately. For example, with the recent focus on pronouns in our culture, I find the rampant misuse of "I" and "me" curious and troubling. What are they teaching our kids?
Obviously, "original" does not mean what I suggest it ought to mean in our numismatic context. But we do need to be aware that people are not always using the same definition for common words. So, we need to get clarification when it matters.
Collector of Liberty Seated Half Dimes, including die pairs and die states
Maybe because PO1s are not alike?
Dave
Maybe we're missing one significant sentence here.... It's all subjective.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
Courtesy of @Zoins. This one would probably qualify for a green sticker. Much to much meat left on this guy to be a PO1!
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
The whole "low ball" thing is so odd to me; people with a lot of money to throw around paying more for heavily-worn coins than for much less worn coins.
But, yes, it does seem silly, even in the context of "low ball" collecting, to pay the money, and go to the trouble, to have it certified as not the lowest....
I guess there's just so many aspects of this hobby one can fabricate to their liking. There are guys out there that collect only holed coins. That's an interesting concept of collecting coins. But how does the holed coin collector know if the hole was drilled 150 years ago or yesterday?.... I guess there are ways to tell.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
@124Spider
There’s an aspect of buying a well circulated coin that’s just very appealing.
,
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Evidently; as I said, it escapes my understanding. But that still does not explain why one would bother with the CAC approval for such a coin.