Well struck vs poorly struck 1921-S Morgans

AllLincolns

I’m slowly accumulating a set of Morgan’s.
Can any one share an example a well struck 1921-S vs the more common weak strike?
What features are you looking for in a well struck piece?
A couple pics would be helpful. Any help would be appreciated.
Sorry if this kind of a noob question …

jmlanzaf

Eagle's breast.

AllLincolns

So feather detail on the breast of the eagle is one key. Makes sense

jmlanzaf

@AllLincolns said:
So feather detail on the breast of the eagle is one key. Makes sense

Generally it's always the high points that fill the least. Eagles head and breast. Liberty's hair. If you go to Heritage archives and look at MS67 coins, you should see the difference

david3142

Given that the top PCGS pop is 66+ that could take a while, but your point stands. Unfortunately my own 1921-S is weakly struck so I won’t post it, but checking the highest graded coins on CoinFacts is a good idea. The hair above the ear should be separated and the breast feathers will look like downward-pointing arrows. They will never look rounded like the 1879-1904 reverse though.
Well-struck 1921-S Morgans are extremely hard to come by - good luck with your search!

jmlanzaf

@david3142 said:
Given that the top pop is 66+ that could take a while, but your main point stands. Unfortunately my own 1921-S is weakly struck so I won’t post it, but checking the highest graded coins on CoinFacts is a good idea. The hair above the ear should be separated and the breast feathers will look like downward-pointing arrows. They will never look rounded like the 1879-1904 reverse though.
Well-struck 1921-S Morgans are extremely hard to come by - good luck with your search!

Only at PCGS. The coin i posted is an NGC 67. So either 66+PCGS or NGC 67.

lilolme

As noted above.
Here are a couple of photos from coinfacts for 1921 S good strike and then not so good. Also a photo of an 1881 S which show the difference in the design.

On the 1921 S the breast feathers are different than the prior years and also the hair above the ear. The 1921 S can also suffer from incomplete wreath leaves.
Note: the photo can also sometime impact what is seen in the strike or rather not seen but not to the degree shown below.

1921 S Good strike:

1921 S not so good strike but they come worse (notice eagle breast, hair over ear and wreath leaves)

1881 S (notice difference in breast feathers, hair over ear and how complete the wreath is)

david3142

@jmlanzaf said:

@david3142 said:
Given that the top pop is 66+ that could take a while, but your main point stands. Unfortunately my own 1921-S is weakly struck so I won’t post it, but checking the highest graded coins on CoinFacts is a good idea. The hair above the ear should be separated and the breast feathers will look like downward-pointing arrows. They will never look rounded like the 1879-1904 reverse though.
Well-struck 1921-S Morgans are extremely hard to come by - good luck with your search!

Only at PCGS. The coin i posted is an NGC 67. So either 66+PCGS or NGC 67.

Yes, there is one 67 at NGC although unfortunately it doesn’t have a great strike. Above average, for sure, though.

anablep

Two views of the same MS65+ 1921-S Morgan from my collection. Even at the lower gem level you can notice poor details in the breast feathers.

coastaljerseyguy

Tough date to find a really nice one, considering they minted over 21.6MM. Highfill noted predominately had a soft strike and poor luster and toned examples few. I went with some rim toning for my collection and an average strike/luster.

messydesk

The issue isn't so much a good vs. a bad strike, rather fresh or mushed out dies. 21-S dies lost their detail quickly when compared to those of the other mints. Even the "Zerbe proofs" were struck from worn dies. If you want a 21-S with the frost of a 21-P, you have a more challenging search ahead of you than if you just want a grade. I've shown this one before, but I really like it, so I'm showing it again.

mattniss

Here's mine in P65. Not the best TV, but a classic example of a higher grade 21-S with the typical strike mushiness on the breast feathers and hair above ear.

leothelyon

Cgc's don't differentiate the strike differences in the grade of the coin. You're going to see (like there's anyone who hasn't ever noticed this phenom....oh, wait....) weak strikes to VEDS strikes in every grade! The only backing one can receive from collecting VEDS coins is from another liked collector with the same goals. And they are few, far and between seldom encountered. It's this way with Jefferson nickels anyways!

Leo

Morgan13

I keep my eye out for a 21-s but have yet to find one I like. You get to know them very well after looking at several hundred or maybe 1000 by now.
@messydesk has one I would buy if I could find similar.

hummingbird_coins

@lilolme said:
As noted above.
Here are a couple of photos from coinfacts for 1921 S good strike and then not so good. Also a photo of an 1881 S which show the difference in the design.

On the 1921 S the breast feathers are different than the prior years and also the hair above the ear. The 1921 S can also suffer from incomplete wreath leaves.
Note: the photo can also sometime impact what is seen in the strike or rather not seen but not to the degree shown below.

1921 S Good strike:

1921 S not so good strike but they come worse (notice eagle breast, hair over ear and wreath leaves)

1881 S (notice difference in breast feathers, hair over ear and how complete the wreath is)

The second coin looks well struck to me. I think you might be mistaking rusted dies for a weak strike.

messydesk

@hummingbird_coins said:

The second coin looks well struck to me. I think you might be mistaking rusted dies for a weak strike.

Heavily worn, not rusted.

hummingbird_coins

@messydesk said:

@hummingbird_coins said:

The second coin looks well struck to me. I think you might be mistaking rusted dies for a weak strike.

Heavily worn, not rusted.

How do you differentiate the two, and how does a die wear?

lilolme

@hummingbird_coins said:

@lilolme said:
As noted above.
Here are a couple of photos from coinfacts for 1921 S good strike and then not so good. Also a photo of an 1881 S which show the difference in the design.

On the 1921 S the breast feathers are different than the prior years and also the hair above the ear. The 1921 S can also suffer from incomplete wreath leaves.
Note: the photo can also sometime impact what is seen in the strike or rather not seen but not to the degree shown below.

1921 S Good strike:

1921 S not so good strike but they come worse (notice eagle breast, hair over ear and wreath leaves)

1881 S (notice difference in breast feathers, hair over ear and how complete the wreath is)

The second coin looks well struck to me. I think you might be mistaking rusted dies for a weak strike.

In numismatics there are many terms that don't always match up well. One is the 'uncirculated' word and how a coin can be uncirculated if pulled from circulation. So on the case of 'not so good strike but they come worse' I guess one could differentiate between weak strike pressure, worn die strike, grease filled die strike, (or other similar things that impact the detail of the coin) or a combination of them. However, all of these can cause a loss of detail on the coin. Due to the loss of detail on the coin I would consider it a striking detail and 'not so good strike' when I am looking for a well struck coin. The OP was asking about what to look for in a well struck 1921 S and those are things I would and did look for in the 1921 Morgan. But yes, one can differentiate between them and say it is well struck but has a loss of detail due to (fill in the blank) and there are circumstances where this is applicable and maybe even required. When looking for a coin, I still think of them as strike details and things I would look for when searching for a well struck coin.

Married2Coins

@jmlanzaf said:

@AllLincolns said:
So feather detail on the breast of the eagle is one key. Makes sense

Generally it's always the high points that fill the least. Eagles head and breast. Liberty's hair. If you go to Heritage archives and look at MS67 coins, you should see the difference

And not the leaves are not fully struck up. I'm going to start looking for one of these in the wild. It will probably only be a 63 when I find (if they exist) it but it will have a full strike. I'll bet a few are out in the wild still.