Monday Night Hard Times Token Auction at HA

pruebas

Anyone participating or watching the Dr. Robert Schulman Hard Times Token auction Monday night at Heritage?

Any wins or comments about prices?

I was totally blown out of the water on 5 lots of interest. I had originally thought I might be able to pick up 2 of the 5.

I thought prices on anything scarce or rare were loco. One lot surpassed $100k with the BP.

Typekat

Yeah, like Wow to this novice.

I watched the first 50 or so lots (I was the underbidder on the gilt I Take The Responsibility) and learned much about the 1830s tokens market:

Who knew, $43,000 for an Andrew Jackson token?

Or that it would take $36,000 to purchase a certain brass token celebrating a Whig political victory?

TPRC

I watched it with interest last night, especially the feuchtwanger material, which I am interested in. In general, I thought the prices were quite high, though I thought the feuchtwanger 4-F cent went for a fairly reasonable price at around $8400, even though it is slabbed as "bent." I have a 4-F that is not as nice for detail, and I had a conversation with Dr. Schuman a year or so before he passed away-I told him I thought mine was a 10k piece and he agreed. I also think the finest known by-a-lot feuchtwanger 3-C cent went for a fair price at 21k. "Fair price at 21k?"-- hard to say that for a token. Some of the Bucklin's Interest Tables HT-349 pieces went for real cheap, IMO, though they are ugly. I was very interested in the HT-72 no H token (lot 93047), which went for over 1k. And lot 93157, the feuchtwanger 25c piece, went for 120k with BP. Wow! Real money indeed! I hope someone got something as I was zeroed out.

DCW

I was astonished at the hammer on this piece. It is 1 of 2 known, and is considered part of the Feuchtwanger compositions:

In the world of tokens, I can't remember anything that has sold for more.
$120,000 (and don't forget the sales tax!)

DCW

It was an interesting auction to watch for sure. Many of these hard times tokens, I have never seen in the state of preservation he presented. Can anyone with a hard copy of the auction catalog post Dr. Schumann's biography? I'd love to read about the person behind these pieces and how the collection was formed if they included that in the catalogue.

DCW

He sure took a haircut on this one, though:

I'm not sure why this one went as high as it did 4 years ago jusy to drop 6k last night?
It's an amazing piece, and I wish I had the money

pruebas

@DCW said:
He sure took a haircut on this one, though:

I'm not sure why this one went as high as it did 4 years ago jusy to drop 6k last night?
It's an amazing piece, and I wish I had the money

Im sure his estate more than made up for that loss! Total realized was $1.13m over 300-ish lots.

I’ve bought coins where I know from the outset that I’ll never come out ahead. But I do know my entire collection will come out ahead. It’s just part of the collector’s “completeness gene.”

DCW

@pruebas
Im sure he turned a profit on the collection, and I understand what you are getting at. It was just odd that he lost money in THAT one. It was unique and very visually striking.

coinsarefun

@pruebas said:
Anyone participating or watching the Dr. Robert Schulman Hard Times Token auction Monday night at Heritage?

Any wins or comments about prices?

I was totally blown out of the water on 5 lots of interest. I had originally thought I might be able to pick up 2 of the 5.

I thought prices on anything scarce or rare were loco. One lot surpassed $100k with the BP.

.
I wonder if Hans Schulman is related? I posted this a few years back and still haven’t found out about the
1876 Liberty Head .
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/13083515#Comment_13083515

coinsarefun

@DCW said:
It was an interesting auction to watch for sure. Many of these hard times tokens, I have never seen in the state of preservation he presented. Can anyone with a hard copy of the auction catalog post Dr. Schumann's biography? I'd love to read about the person behind these pieces and how the collection was formed if they included that in the catalogue.

.
IDK if it’s too late to buy his book or not. Such a beautiful exhibit of HTT’s.

https://nnp.library.wustl.edu/concern/articles/Article12947?locale=es

kaz

I took a stab at anHT 204b (the one with the cow) and was obliterated. Looking at all those lovely HTT's I couldn't help thinking of our late friend Broadstruck, who knew them so well and steered me to some really nice ones for my little collection.

Stella

I am happy to say that Dr. Schuman is still alive and well and was able to enjoy his auction!

For those who are interested in the background, here is the story he shared in the catalog when Heritage sold his Large Cent collection in August 2024, including this amazing Double Struck Cent: https://coins.ha.com/itm/large-cents/1794-1c-head-of-1794-s-28-b-10-r2-double-struck-ms66-brown-ngc-pcgs-35549-/a/1376-4087.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

"At the age of 13, in 1958, I was offered and gladly accepted a Saturday job at Mason-Dixon Coin Exchange, in Baltimore, Maryland from owner Thomas P. Warfield. I had spent many Saturday afternoons in the coin shop, and everybody knew my name. I was thrilled to be making $7.50 a week. This was the beginning of my real introduction to coin collecting and numismatics in general. Fortunately, I became interested in 2 books that would have significant impact on my numismatic interests and my life as well.

In 1958, Penny Whimsy had just been published and released. From it, I learned to attribute Large Cents, but more importantly it instilled in me a sense of reverence for the pieces themselves, both as miniature works of art, but also as cherished historical artifacts. In 1955, with much less fanfare, Charles V. Kappen had produced a very attractive full-size reprint of Lyman H. Low’s magnum opus, Hard Times Tokens, along with half-tone reproductions of the famous Edgar H. Adams plates, circa 1915.

I became obsessed with both. I was allowed to attribute all large cents and HTTs that came into the shop. I also had intermittent opportunities to purchase mint state HTTs for $1 or $2 each. There was something about their historical context and physical size that was remarkably appealing. However, the next 12 years of my life were primarily occupied with college, medical school, and internship and residency.

During my senior year in medical school in 1971, I drove to St. Louise for the Frank Masters Sale of Large Cents. I had noticed in the partially plated catalog an error of great significance. An EF-40 1794, head of 93 Large Cent had been called a Sheldon 18b with quite a few finer specimens known. However, it was an S-19b and quite possibly the finest known. I had no idea if anyone else had noticed this and went to St. Louis to try to purchase it. As it turned out, no one else had noticed this, and I bought it.

I was immediately approached by a large group of collectors (EAC members as I later came to realize.) Once I explained to them the mis-attribution, they confirmed it and admitted their oversight. I began receiving offers of twice what I paid, very flattering, but more importantly, I was invited to join EAC and attend their meeting. There, I met many Large Cent luminaries who would become life-long friends. In a single weekend, had become a Large Cent presence and made friendships still strong to this day.

Throughout this time, embers of my interest in HTTs had lingered and became ignited by PCAC’s Landmark HTT sale of 1976. This was the sale of Leonard Kusterer, who had worked for Wayte Raymond in NYC. Raymond was a great aficionado of HTTs, many passing to Kusterer. I bought quite a few lots in that sale, and it was the first time I had seen a significant number of partly red unc HTTs.

This began my quest for rare and beautiful HTTs. Many great collections were sold in the following decades, and I tried to buy the best when I could. This led me into contact with John J. Ford and began a friendship with him that lasted until his passing.

My wife Carole and I often visited John and Joan in Scottsdale. We would go to dinner nightly for the week. John, when he could, had discount coupons always ready. One night after dinner, at their kitchen table at home, around midnight, John said, “I have a box of coins here. I know you love 1794’s, and there is one I want you to look at.” The box was marked “odd and unusual.” There were able 15 coins in the box. It was the last coin in the box—the Double-Struck 1794 S-28 US Large Cent. To paraphrase Humphrey Bogart and earlier William Shakespeare, soon to become “such stuff as dreams are made on.” After trying to catch my breath, I said to John, “I just can’t leave without that coin.”

John had explained that he had spoken to Harvey Stack, who wanted to put it on the cover of his next catalog. I couldn’t sleep that night. Luckily, the next day after brunch, John agreed that I could purchase the coin—needless to say, I slept much better that night.

At the sale of his collection, I was able to purchase many of the legendary and historic tokens that I still treasure to this day."

Stella

For those who are curious, the rest of his Large Cent collection can be seen here: https://coins.ha.com/c/search/results.zx?dept=1909&sold_status=1526~1524&archive_state=5327&mode=archive&auction_name=1376&auction_year=2024&featured_collection=3095

BillJones

I bid on two lots and got one. The winning bidder for the one I lost was bidding like a house a fire so I knew it was useless to continue. When you run into a "I'm going to buy this no matter what I have pay," you just raise the white flag. I have run into many of those bidders this year.

BillJones

@DCW said:
He sure took a haircut on this one, though:

I'm not sure why this one went as high as it did 4 years ago jusy to drop 6k last night?
It's an amazing piece, and I wish I had the money

I collect Hard Times Tokens for the history. Odd strikes, die trials and off-metals at very high prices are of little interest to me.

RobertScotLover

Ho do we know that Mr Manley isn't buying everything up and blowing all prices out of the water in order to obtain the collection? He did it once before and affected prices of said items once before albeit temporarily

DCW

@Stella
Thank you so much for posting the biography! I really wish Heritage would do this at the beginning of each catalog for big collections. It's important to preserve the history and provenance.
@kaz
All those NJ HTTs were exquisite! For my part, I picked up the two Howell Works tokens from Allaire, NJ:
The HT-200 NGC MS61BN


Not a rare piece, but its the nicest one Ive come across. This is the first uncirculated piece I've seen. The pops show another MS61, but it may be the same one. Who cares about grades on tokens, right? Look at those grape leaves and tell me you're not in love with the strike!
The HT-201 XF40


Again, not a rare piece, but it is lovely chocolate brown with a smooth planchet. Yes, the reverse has some roughness in the center, but the strike is strong. Always weak on the "oke" of "token," yet this one is pretty clear.
These will join my Howell Works Garden token struck over an 1820 Large Cent I purchased a few years back from the Dave Bowers Collection.

pruebas

@Stella said:
I am happy to say that Dr. Schuman is still alive and well and was able to enjoy his auction!

For those who are interested in the background, here is the story he shared in the catalog when Heritage sold his Large Cent collection in August 2024, including this amazing Double Struck Cent: https://coins.ha.com/itm/large-cents/1794-1c-head-of-1794-s-28-b-10-r2-double-struck-ms66-brown-ngc-pcgs-35549-/a/1376-4087.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

"At the age of 13, in 1958, I was offered and gladly accepted a Saturday job at Mason-Dixon Coin Exchange, in Baltimore, Maryland from owner Thomas P. Warfield. I had spent many Saturday afternoons in the coin shop, and everybody knew my name. I was thrilled to be making $7.50 a week. This was the beginning of my real introduction to coin collecting and numismatics in general. Fortunately, I became interested in 2 books that would have significant impact on my numismatic interests and my life as well.

In 1958, Penny Whimsy had just been published and released. From it, I learned to attribute Large Cents, but more importantly it instilled in me a sense of reverence for the pieces themselves, both as miniature works of art, but also as cherished historical artifacts. In 1955, with much less fanfare, Charles V. Kappen had produced a very attractive full-size reprint of Lyman H. Low’s magnum opus, Hard Times Tokens, along with half-tone reproductions of the famous Edgar H. Adams plates, circa 1915.

I became obsessed with both. I was allowed to attribute all large cents and HTTs that came into the shop. I also had intermittent opportunities to purchase mint state HTTs for $1 or $2 each. There was something about their historical context and physical size that was remarkably appealing. However, the next 12 years of my life were primarily occupied with college, medical school, and internship and residency.

During my senior year in medical school in 1971, I drove to St. Louise for the Frank Masters Sale of Large Cents. I had noticed in the partially plated catalog an error of great significance. An EF-40 1794, head of 93 Large Cent had been called a Sheldon 18b with quite a few finer specimens known. However, it was an S-19b and quite possibly the finest known. I had no idea if anyone else had noticed this and went to St. Louis to try to purchase it. As it turned out, no one else had noticed this, and I bought it.

I was immediately approached by a large group of collectors (EAC members as I later came to realize.) Once I explained to them the mis-attribution, they confirmed it and admitted their oversight. I began receiving offers of twice what I paid, very flattering, but more importantly, I was invited to join EAC and attend their meeting. There, I met many Large Cent luminaries who would become life-long friends. In a single weekend, had become a Large Cent presence and made friendships still strong to this day.

Throughout this time, embers of my interest in HTTs had lingered and became ignited by PCAC’s Landmark HTT sale of 1976. This was the sale of Leonard Kusterer, who had worked for Wayte Raymond in NYC. Raymond was a great aficionado of HTTs, many passing to Kusterer. I bought quite a few lots in that sale, and it was the first time I had seen a significant number of partly red unc HTTs.

This began my quest for rare and beautiful HTTs. Many great collections were sold in the following decades, and I tried to buy the best when I could. This led me into contact with John J. Ford and began a friendship with him that lasted until his passing.

My wife Carole and I often visited John and Joan in Scottsdale. We would go to dinner nightly for the week. John, when he could, had discount coupons always ready. One night after dinner, at their kitchen table at home, around midnight, John said, “I have a box of coins here. I know you love 1794’s, and there is one I want you to look at.” The box was marked “odd and unusual.” There were able 15 coins in the box. It was the last coin in the box—the Double-Struck 1794 S-28 US Large Cent. To paraphrase Humphrey Bogart and earlier William Shakespeare, soon to become “such stuff as dreams are made on.” After trying to catch my breath, I said to John, “I just can’t leave without that coin.”

John had explained that he had spoken to Harvey Stack, who wanted to put it on the cover of his next catalog. I couldn’t sleep that night. Luckily, the next day after brunch, John agreed that I could purchase the coin—needless to say, I slept much better that night.

At the sale of his collection, I was able to purchase many of the legendary and historic tokens that I still treasure to this day."

@Stella Too bad you didn't have that blurb somewhere visible in the HTT auction. As you well know, stories sell coins. And since I am only a "dabbler" and not a serious HTT collector, I don't know Dr. Schuman. But if I decide I want a piece, I want the best available. Had I known more about the provenance of the pieces I was interested in, I might have bid more strongly on them.

For example, if he, as a serious student, hadn't seen a nicer example in his 50 years of collecting, that means a lot to me. Even if the TPGs think the piece is AU58, but the doctor thought it was the nicest he had seen, even with some MS62s in the census, that info is quite meaningful.

And I apologize to Dr. Schuman for implying he was no longer with us. A prior poster implied the same and I went with it. Congratulations to him on his successful sale!