Guatemala 1 real 1768 - rarity and value?

Euclid

Posting on behalf of a friend who is not on the forums. Both of us were curious about this recent auction sale of a Guatemala 1 real from 1768. As can be seen below, the coin is holed and quite worn, yet it fetched an impressive $585.69 the other night. Curious about this, neither of us could find another past sale for the year online. I looked in Numismatica Espanola, which does not indicate the year is any more rare or valuable than other date of the same type and mint, however the same night on ebay from the same seller, a holed 1763 with considerably more detail realized "just" $374.69.

Graded population for 1768:
NGC: 1 VF, 1 AU
PCGS: None graded

Some questions:
Is anyone aware of any past sale of any 1768 G 1 real?
Is Numismatica Espanola accurate and there just haven't been recent sales, or is this date a 'sleeper' in terms of rarity?
Does anyone on the forums own one of these coins or have pics of the graded examples?
Any theories for this high auction price?

Boosibri

Nothing special about it as a date, though all are quite difficult, especially unholed.

TheGoonies1985

I bid on both but decided to bail on the 1768 and won the 1763. Paid up on the 1763 sometimes it happens and many times I got lucky and paid less for coins I own. I wanted it so I am OK with the price.

TheGoonies1985

The 1768 seems to be a new variety with the dot under the crown. I would have bid higher but the 8 in the date is not great and will just have to wait till another shows up. First 1763 & 1768 I have seen in 12 months of collecting this series. So no they do not come up often. I have seen less than 10 total (some dates more than once in that total) Guatemala 1 reales 1754-1771 in a full year of watching daily.

Both these dates are very rare per Yonaka.

TheGoonies1985

Any theories for this high auction price?

A little over 12 000 minted of the 1763 and a little over 5800 minted of the 1768. If you compare this series to Peru 99% have mintage's of 50 000+ (except the very low mintage's for 1751 & 1752). And even the Peru series is not easy at all to complete (minus the unique 1751).

Total coins from Guatemala and Peru I have seen in the last year (all dates combined):

Guatemala 1754-1771 = 8 (3 of these had no hole)

Peru 1752 - 1772 (I do not count the unique 1751) = 28 (there are still 6 dates I have yet to even see an example)

Euclid

@TheGoonies1985 said:
I bid on both but decided to bail on the 1768 and won the 1763. Paid up on the 1763 sometimes it happens and many times I got lucky and paid less for coins I own. I wanted it so I am OK with the price.

Congrats! Are you working on a date set?

TheGoonies1985

@Euclid said:

@TheGoonies1985 said:
I bid on both but decided to bail on the 1768 and won the 1763. Paid up on the 1763 sometimes it happens and many times I got lucky and paid less for coins I own. I wanted it so I am OK with the price.

Congrats! Are you working on a date set?

Yes date for now for Guatemala and date/varieties for Peru and Mexico. I will most likely get into varieties as well for Guatemala at some point when things slow down. But this is my 1st full year and my budget has taken a hit but I am not I believe at a point were buying will slow down a lot. In 2025 I am hoping to add 3-4 Peru I am missing and 4-5 Guatemala dates I am missing will see if any show up I still need especially Peru I have a lot of the series now already.

Euclid

@TheGoonies1985 said:
The 1768 seems to be a new variety with the dot under the crown. I would have bid higher but the 8 in the date is not great and will just have to wait till another shows up. First 1763 & 1768 I have seen in 12 months of collecting this series. So no they do not come up often. I have seen less than 10 total Guatemala 1 reales 1754-1771 in a full year of watching daily.

Both these dates are very rare per Yonaka.

I'm embarrassed to admit I forgot to check Yonaka. He says two die pairs observed, do you think that refers to the one pictured in the book (no dot) and the one from ebay (with dot) or do you think he would have mentioned the variety if he had known about it?

TheGoonies1985

@Euclid said:

@TheGoonies1985 said:
The 1768 seems to be a new variety with the dot under the crown. I would have bid higher but the 8 in the date is not great and will just have to wait till another shows up. First 1763 & 1768 I have seen in 12 months of collecting this series. So no they do not come up often. I have seen less than 10 total Guatemala 1 reales 1754-1771 in a full year of watching daily.

Both these dates are very rare per Yonaka.

I'm embarrassed to admit I forgot to check Yonaka. He says two die pairs observed, do you think that refers to the one pictured in the book (no dot) and the one from ebay (with dot) or do you think he would have mentioned the variety if he had known about it?

He would have for sure mentioned the variety if he had known about it. There are many varieties out there not in his book. His book a the best on the series and it would be impossible for him to have seen all that exists. That is why he mentions in his book to send new images to his e-mail account when us collectors come across any. That is what I do. Will send him this one today.

TheGoonies1985

I only buy holed Guatemala 1754-1771 they are expensive without any hole (even in lower grades they can fetch 800$-1000$US+). As for Peru I buy what I can and over time will upgrade my holed coins except for the ultra rare dates like the 1752 (my 1752 is holed).

Some here collect both countries with no holes but my funds are limited I collect what I can with the money I have.

TheGoonies1985

Mexico milled 1732-1772 is much easier to complete minus obviously the 1732 (Yonaka states he saw 9 total and 1 of the rarer variety with assayer initial). Most Mexican coins from this series do not have any holes. Holed coins from Guatemala and Peru from these early series and smaller denominations are holed. Cultural thing.

TheGoonies1985

Rarest milled 1 real series from this period:

Colombia 1760 (about dozen known)
Guatemala 1754-1771
Peru 1751-1772 (1751 unique per Yonaka)
Mexico 1732-1772 (1732 is very rare in any grade and some of the 1733 varieties are very/extremely rare)
Bolivia 1767-1770

Chile no known dates per Yonaka. I have never seen any images but some say one sold in the late 1970's/ early 1980's at auction. If that is true then Chile would be the rarest series.

Boosibri (forum member) said in another topic on this issue: ''Freeman Craig handled one in the late 70’s/early 80’s. I believe it was the 1760''.

SimonW

It’s rare, but certainly not the rarest. Perhaps the new variety was a factor. Two people just needed it, that’s all I can say. I was surprised at the price.

SimonW

For having a hole, it is quite pleasing

realeswatcher

Hey, nice to not have to worry about those pesky Capital Gains taxes when it comes time to sell 👍

TheGoonies1985

@SimonW said:
It’s rare, but certainly not the rarest. Perhaps the new variety was a factor. Two people just needed it, that’s all I can say. I was surprised at the price.

Make that 3 people including me that bid over 540$ on the 1768. The 1763 we were 2 that had to have it so I paid up.

I cannot even say if I overpaid or not for the 1763 they just never show up. I am happy to add it to my collection. I will never replace it same for any other Guatemala 1 reales I own.

Sure I would have been happier to pay around 150$-200$ but that does not always happen.

TheGoonies1985

Brad Yonaka got back to me today regarding the 1768 and the dot under the crown:

Hi,

Thanks for the photos. I did see one example of this die pair since the first book, and will consider it for a variety in the 2nd edition. Were you the buyer?

Brad

Told him I was not the buyer.