Help Please. Where is the Wheel Mark on this Dime. Lots of Pictures.
Fairlaneman
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Reverse
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Thanks Much.
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Fairlaneman
Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭✭
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Looks like a lot of die polish, but a wheel mark ?
I can't see it.
Wheel marks aren’t often detectable in images.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
How about on obverse at bottom of bust below T of TRUST. Looks like could be a scrape where no yellow toning.
The tops of U N on the reverse seem to have disturbances. I agree that sometimes wheel marks are not easy to see in photos.
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Between top diagonal bands and top horizontal band? Wherever it is, it doesn't seem significant enough to warrant a details grade.
Young Numismatist • My Toned Coins
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Curious question for @MFeld: Mark, does an undetectable exception (such as this one might be) warrant a details grade?
Thanks,
Ken
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
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I'd have to see it in hand, since wheel marks can be fleeting when the coin is viewed. The combination of die polishing lines, feed finger scrapes, and toning makes the surfaces very difficult to read.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Ken, I’ve pondered that question before and although I’m sure many would disagree, I still think a detail-grade is warranted.
Many years ago, a collector contacted me because he got back a detail-grade (wheel mark) coin and he couldn’t locate the wheel-mark. I invited him to send it to me for me to examine. He took me up on my offer and sent it. First, I studied the coin under an incandescent lamp, but I didn’t see what I was looking for. Next, I got out my tensor lamp that I was using back then and voila, I saw the wheel-mark.
I returned the coin to my client, told him where to look and he saw it.
Often, wheel-marks are hard to locate, even when viewing the coin in hand. Tilting and rotating the coin just-so under a high intensity lamp can help considerably, however. But, of course, viewing images doesn’t afford you that option.
For those who think that wheel-marks shouldn’t be a cause for a detail-grade, what about cleaning, spot removals or other issues that are nearly undetectable - at least by many who examine the coin? Should such coins also get a pass from detail-grades? I think it’s better that such issues are noted by the grading companies and that buyers/the market be left to determine how to value the coins.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@MFeld: thanks! Appreciate the detailed explanation that makes a lot of sense.
Ken
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
I cannot see it in these pictures, but as MFeld says they can be difficult to see in an image. Try tilting the coin relative to your light source.
These are frustrating to find. I have had a couple come back that I thought were gems only to get details. After more careful evaluation they can often be found.
The only thing that I see strange is the group of three lines, maybe four, on liberties cheek. They look somewhat different than regular slide marks or hairlines. You might be able to see them in picture 4.
Thanks for the help and suggestions.
Ken
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
However, I might be seeing a minor die clash or two.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
2nd photo there is obvious wheelmark..
On her "temple"
You see 3 marks... 1 soft, 2nd deeper, 3rd soft.... this is the signs of a wheel mark.
crack out & resubmit, and see what you get
some of that stuff can be MA. how big of a scratch is MA? that's more like it
Clearly it’s not undetectable, since it was detected by the TPG.
I don't think wheel marks should always get a details grade, just like scratches don't. It's an abrasion and should be judged by its severity, just like any other non intentional damage to the coin after minting.
I have no problem with the TPG limiting the MS grade in response, but I don't think it should be considered on par with tooling, i.e. if it's detectable at all, it goes "details".
That would probably be a waste of money, with insubstantial upside (relative to the cost of grading), even if the coin straight-graded.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I am not sure, but these lines look to be incuse not raised like die polish. I think these might be what @Relaxn referred to in his reply.
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There are definitely marks there.
I wouldn't atempt a regrade IMO.