Unopened Pack Issue

Compton57

I purchased a very rare unopened pack on E-bay. The pack was graded "9" by PSA. Prior to bidding on the item, I checked the Cert ID # and took that number and Google searched it. I found that same pack was sold in auction only a year ago at a very high end auctioneer which we all know. While the image on E-bay was a fairly crisp shot of the front and back on the pack (the Seller does a lot of unopened pack sales), the photo from the auction house was a lot clearer & had a much better magnification. There was no visible damage. So rather than request additional pictures of the pack from the side (which I nearly always do), I chose to rely on the other auction pic (lesson learned I suppose). Bottom line - I won & received the pack & it is fairly clear that over the past year, this pack was damaged as there are now a couple rips (barely visible) on the bottom & one on top at the center of the pack -- this one a more exaggerated rip -- more like a small puncture. Turning the holder over, the center of the pack matched nicely to what looked like a tiny bump on the inside of the top of the PSA holder.

I've collected for 40+ years & know the same thing can happen with cards but I've increasingly found that it's been typically a risker issue with PSA packs in older holders where the pack is slightly loose. And the older the pack, the more opportunity it has to go through several owners who treat these packs with varying degrees of care. That said, I've had the same problem even buying unopened packs via top selling auctioneers where the pack looks in better shape than what you ultimately receive even with all the magnification technology showing, I have returned some of those packs so it ultimately is my call.

I have about 200 unopened packs with about 2/3 in older PSA holders (the rest are GAI which I cannot do anything about as I am concerned about risking the grade & possibly even authenticity in the more modern GAI holders used at the end of the GAI era).

In summary, my thought is to take about 50-60 of these packs --- mostly all the high end older ones - and have them "re-holdered" into the more recent version which has a cleaner & certainly more compact fit.

My question albeit a naive one as I have never done this:

1) If PSA re-holders the pack, I just want to confirm they cannot change the grade. I have made the business decision on a few PSA 9 packs that have come back slightly damaged to keep them.

2). Out of curiosity, do the high end auctioneers ever use older pics of the packs or cards in lieu of more recent pics that may show a more slightly damaged pack or card. I would think could be repetitional suicide but, as mentioned, I've bought some very old packs from the top auctioneers & they've come back with some damage that was not evident in the photo.

Thanks!

PatriotTrading

Their disclaimer only states on reholdering that they only take into account the case being damaged but I would tread carefully like you are. I believe in the Vinttage WaX & Packs Group on Facebook, there is a PSA representative that may be able to get an answer for you. I do find it hard to see them reholdering a PSA 9 for instance with the dreaded gum poke holes.

mintonlypls

Your questions are valid…and it seems to me that PSA would take into account the decreased “value” of a pack when re-holdering.

Anyway…the future biddders would bid accordingly on a torn wax-wrapper pack. I won a 7th series (high series) PSA-8 1967 Baseball Wax pack from ML for $12.5k. ML did not pack the wax pack securely….and it arrived ripped. I returned it for a full refund. It then appeared on a future ML auction still as a PSA-8 ….but then sold for only $5.5k.

UFFDAH

If older packs have taken on tears etc. PSA will lower the grade in the re-holder process. I've had it happen. It sucks but it will happen.

PM me with what you are selling and asking prices.

grote15

Unfortunately, this is always going to be a potential issue as long as they continue to use hard plastic holders with the well within the holder. If the gum is loose inside the pack, it essentially acts as a petrified razor which can and will often poke or slice the wrapper while the pack is in transit. It doesn't really matter how your package the pack for shipping as the issue is within the PSA holder itself not due to any external impact or damage. The GAI holders which utilized a softer plastic actually did a better job at preventing this problem by immobilizing the gum with gentle pressure onto the pack within the holder. PSA will sometimes use mylar shrinkwrap which effectively replicates that effect and I wish they would use that option more often especially in cases where the gum is loose within the pack.

Compton57

Thank you for your comments. I was afraid of that but not surprised. I'll reach out to the wax pack group on Facebook & see if I can hopefully get an explanation from the PSA representative. I'll PM you UFFDAH - thx. At the risk of stating the obvious, it is a frustrating slippery slope because the grading is, of course, subjective. While packs are my issue right now, I have some higher end cards from the 1950-1960's that were graded by PSA years ago when you could drive to their corporate offices in Santa Ana on the weekends & submit your cards. I would love to get these cards out those ancient holders -- where a few very high end cards seem to be literally floating from side to side in the holder at even the slightest movement -- & into the new holders where they'd be protected more (and look better). My concern of course is that there are 8's, 9's & a few 10's where I'd be hard pressed seeing that grade today.

That said, it all goes to buying the card or pack -- not the grade. Which leads to my concern about the photos of these wax packs in these auctions not showing slight rips or tears. I bought a PSA-8 '63 Topps FB pack that looked striking on the photos but when I received, there were 4 tears on the underbelly of the pack that were not visible on the photo which just showed front & back. Like Minton, I returned it but it was a tough decision as these packs do not come up for auction that often.

82FootballWaxMemorys

If the Pic does not match the pack at the time it's put up for auction intended or not it is deceptive. My guess more times than not its done on purpose, making it fraudulent.