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From a dealer, some "dos and don'ts" for collectors, with an example full of don'ts

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  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 34,204 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 14, 2024 6:28PM

    @MS66 said:
    NB: I never said that the seller had a store. Obviously some do, and some don't. But i also never said how much extra the seller might be paying eBay for promotion. Again, some do and some don't.

    I also never said (or even remotely implied) that I "despised" anyone for any of the above. SMH.

    You certainly implied that the dealer was somehow getting over on you.

    With or without a store or promotion, I think it is unreasonable to expect more than a 10% price reduction.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 34,204 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MS66 said:

    @PeakRarities said:
    edit, I missed something.

    Something else now occurs to me. A "clever" seller can set up 30% promotions and then only sell to those who agree to take the deal off-site. Thereby clogging up eBay and making a killing.

    I doubt I'm the first person this has occurred to. EBay is no longer enforcing its rule about contact info in listings.

    I wonder if eBay even knows.

    I don't think you can do this. You certainly can't put in the listing that you'll only do the deal off ebay. As a result, you risk getting hit with a 30% promotion fee.

  • MS66MS66 Posts: 233 ✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    You certainly implied that the dealer was somehow getting over on you.

    Again, I said nothing of the kind, and this is your fourth unwarranted assumption in this exchange. All of which I have treated gently up to now.

    I said that the seller wouldn't be taking a substantial hit (or any) despite the possible intention of having it appear that way by offering a 10% discount. That's all, and (despite your apparent need to argue) no one here disagrees with this!

    @jmlanzaf said:

    I don't think you can do this. You certainly can't put in the listing that you'll only do the deal off ebay.

    Yet another unwarranted assumption. No one said a dealer would specify it in the listing. That's the last straw [man] for me! Done here, bye.

  • BryceMBryceM Posts: 11,794 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Or, if you’re really shrewd, you can learn the inventory sticker pricing code for a particular dealer and know right away what he paid for it. That really makes it easier. Usually, with a little effort, you can figure it out.

  • DocBenjaminDocBenjamin Posts: 1,410 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 14, 2024 6:56PM

    @BryceM said:
    Or, if you’re really shrewd, you can learn the inventory sticker pricing code for a particular dealer and know right away what he paid for it. That really makes it easier. Usually, with a little effort, you can figure it out.

    :#

  • PeakRaritiesPeakRarities Posts: 3,700 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BryceM said:
    Or, if you’re really shrewd, you can learn the inventory sticker pricing code for a particular dealer and know right away what he paid for it. That really makes it easier. Usually, with a little effort, you can figure it out.

    I've cracked a couple Dealer cost codes, but honestly at the end of the day it never really helped me all that much. Some dealers have a consistant approach where their ask price is normally 10% higher than their rock bottom net, and the margin of their original ask ranges between 15%-20%

    For example, theyll buy a coin for $3,300 and price it retail at $4,000. When asked for their "best price" by a collector, theyll throw out a quote of $3,750, and maybe $3600 wholesale to another dealer. Even though I know that they didnt pay more than 33-3400, I also know that the most theyll ever come down is about 10% from ask.

    Founder- Peak Rarities
    Website
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  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 14, 2024 9:37PM

    @BryceM said:
    Or, if you’re really shrewd, you can learn the inventory sticker pricing code for a particular dealer and know right away what he paid for it. That really makes it easier. Usually, with a little effort, you can figure it out.

    Dream on. With all the collector BS I get off the bourse nice try.

    Coins & Currency
  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 34,204 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 15, 2024 2:56AM

    @MS66 said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    You certainly implied that the dealer was somehow getting over on you.

    Again, I said nothing of the kind, and this is your fourth unwarranted assumption in this exchange. All of which I have treated gently up to now.

    I said that the seller wouldn't be taking a substantial hit (or any) despite the possible intention of having it appear that way by offering a 10% discount. That's all, and (despite your apparent need to argue) no one here disagrees with this!

    @jmlanzaf said:

    I don't think you can do this. You certainly can't put in the listing that you'll only do the deal off ebay.

    Yet another unwarranted assumption. No one said a dealer would specify it in the listing. That's the last straw [man] for me! Done here, bye.

    Actually, "they" (you) did say that very thing:

    "A "clever" seller can set up 30% promotions and then only sell to those who agree to take the deal off-site. Thereby clogging up eBay and making a killing.

    I doubt I'm the first person this has occurred to. EBay is no longer enforcing its rule about contact info in listings."

    How, exactly, could you only sell off ebay unless you told them not to buy on ebay? And you specifically mention contact information.

    And that is hardly the fourth "unwarranted assumption" as it is the same one (and only) as prior when you were complaining about the 10% discount which is the only "assumption" (actually inference) I made. A logical inference since you did NOT say the seller "wouldn't be taking a substantial hit", you said the seller would be making more money and you would be losing your protection. My apologies if I mistakenly interpreted that as a complaint. I didn't realize you actually thought the 10% discount was very "generous". It reads, to me, as rather sarcastic.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 34,204 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Returning to the topic, the other ebay negotiation I find funny is the "can you take "x"? I'll pay immediately. "

    Almost everyone in ebay pays immediately, why do I have to bribe you to do so?

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 34,204 ✭✭✭✭✭

    And the one I don't know what to do with: "I'm a disabled vet..."

    Color me cynical, but I feel like these are usually stolen valor.

  • DocBenjaminDocBenjamin Posts: 1,410 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:
    And the one I don't know what to do with: "I'm a disabled vet..."

    Color me cynical, but I feel like these are usually stolen valor.

    I give an added 5% discount to those folks. Even if two thirds are lying, at least the honest ones are getting a few bucks off.

  • BikergeekBikergeek Posts: 412 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DocBenjamin said:
    1. Well here is number one. If you are real particular about the coins that you buy, leave the online sellers alone and buy only coins that you have viewed in person. Returns are a pain in the butt.

    1. It is ok to ask for a better price, but on PCGS and CACG slabs, the margins are tight, so let the dealer eat too.

    2. Imaging a half dime isn't so easy, at least at earlier Truview metrics. Don't expect a 70 year old dealer to have the talent of Ansel Adams.

    3. Buy the dealer a martini when you see him. He will appreciate it!

    Doc, I hope I didn't offend with my post "From a collector"! And oh boy, I hope you're not the proprietor of Golden Eagle, since they were my cautionary example on that post.

    To your points:
    1. I hope to meet you at a show someday, especially if you have some nice capped bust half dimes to show me! But living in Middle Earth as I do (Kansas City area), my in-person opportunities are slender - especially since not everyone deals in early 19th century half dimes. So online sellers are still a staple of mine.

    1. Re: pricing, the example I cited showed an online dealer mis-identifying a variety and asking about four times the value of the coin. It's clearly FUBAR. I'm not talking about a tough negotiation; I'm talking about meeting me on the same planet.

    2. Agree, imaging small coins is tuff. I've learned some cool techniques from folks right here and I am slowly improving.

    3. Lol!

    New website: Groovycoins.com Capped Bust Half Dime registry set: Bikergeek CBHD LM Set

  • Mr_SpudMr_Spud Posts: 5,342 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Over the years, I’ve tried different techniques in negotiating prices of coins with dealers. If I try to nickel and dime a dealer too much, they tend to learn from that and they start off higher the next time. If I don’t nickel and dime dealers they tend to show me new purchases and choice coins they don’t have on display the next time.

    Mr_Spud

  • JWPJWP Posts: 22,233 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DocBenjamin said:
    1. Well here is number one. If you are real particular about the coins that you buy, leave the online sellers alone and buy only coins that you have viewed in person. Returns are a pain in the butt.

    1. It is ok to ask for a better price, but on PCGS and CACG slabs, the margins are tight, so let the dealer eat too.

    2. Imaging a half dime isn't so easy, at least at earlier Truview metrics. Don't expect a 70 year old dealer to have the talent of Ansel Adams.

    3. Buy the dealer a martini when you see him. He will appreciate it!

    So you are telling me on an online forum not to buy online. So I take that you have never sold or bought coins from an online site. 😗🥴😵‍💫

    USN & USAF retired 1971-1993
    Successful Transactions with more than 100 Members

  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 15, 2024 11:06AM

    That some bourse room sleuth is going to pickoff my codes am just shaking in my boots lol.

    Working his angle / This dealer in jersey had “retail” amt and “wholesale amt” (what he would take) on the holder. Liked his approach. They of course took the “wholesale” deal.

    Coins & Currency
  • lermishlermish Posts: 2,908 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Cougar1978 said:
    That some bourse room sleuth is going to pickoff my codes am just shaking in my boots lol.

    This dealer in jersey had “retail” amt and “wholesale amt” (what he would take) on the holder. Liked his approach. They of course took the “wholesale” deal.

    Just be sure that the bourse room sleuth doesn't team up with a tire kicker.. they'll give you some BS on the bourse!

    What a joke. Where is @deplorabledan with his Cougar wheel when we need him.

  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 15, 2024 11:56AM

    Frankly it’s been ages somebody tried BS me on the bourse. I don’t think those people even have the gas money get there.

    Coins & Currency
  • Mr_SpudMr_Spud Posts: 5,342 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It would be funny if a dealer figured out that a collector broke his code and then put an inflated price in code to trick the collector. More of a practical joke or a comedy plot on a TV show than something in real life, but it would be funny 😉

    Mr_Spud

  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 15, 2024 11:51AM

    This guy in Jersey (really friendly nice guy) approach he puts price labeled “retail” and another slightly lower labeled “wholesale” and they fall over each other buy at that. No idea how much above bid his “wholesale” price was lol. Just working his angle. Later a buddy said that guys “wholesale” price abt 15-20 pct above bid.

    Coins & Currency
  • bigjpstbigjpst Posts: 3,101 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PeakRarities said:

    @BryceM said:
    Or, if you’re really shrewd, you can learn the inventory sticker pricing code for a particular dealer and know right away what he paid for it. That really makes it easier. Usually, with a little effort, you can figure it out.

    I've cracked a couple Dealer cost codes, but honestly at the end of the day it never really helped me all that much. Some dealers have a consistant approach where their ask price is normally 10% higher than their rock bottom net, and the margin of their original ask ranges between 15%-20%

    For example, theyll buy a coin for $3,300 and price it retail at $4,000. When asked for their "best price" by a collector, theyll throw out a quote of $3,750, and maybe $3600 wholesale to another dealer. Even though I know that they didnt pay more than 33-3400, I also know that the most theyll ever come down is about 10% from ask.

    For wholesale I don't think it really matters at all. I know several dealers who don't mess around with codes at all, they just write down the dollar amount they paid, and ask a small markup.

    Of course I suppose knowing what the code is could help decide if the dealer is being "Fair" . But if I win a coin worth $500 for $100 in an auction, is it still "fair" to mark it up to $500?

    With cert verification, and completed auction results, lots of pricing information is available to the buyer anyway.

    Either way, I will sell for what I need to sell for. Regardless of whether or not the potential buyer knows what I paid for something.

  • PeakRaritiesPeakRarities Posts: 3,700 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @bigjpst said:

    @PeakRarities said:

    @BryceM said:
    Or, if you’re really shrewd, you can learn the inventory sticker pricing code for a particular dealer and know right away what he paid for it. That really makes it easier. Usually, with a little effort, you can figure it out.

    I've cracked a couple Dealer cost codes, but honestly at the end of the day it never really helped me all that much. Some dealers have a consistant approach where their ask price is normally 10% higher than their rock bottom net, and the margin of their original ask ranges between 15%-20%

    For example, theyll buy a coin for $3,300 and price it retail at $4,000. When asked for their "best price" by a collector, theyll throw out a quote of $3,750, and maybe $3600 wholesale to another dealer. Even though I know that they didnt pay more than 33-3400, I also know that the most theyll ever come down is about 10% from ask.

    Of course I suppose knowing what the code is could help decide if the dealer is being "Fair" . But if I win a coin worth $500 for $100 in an auction, is it still "fair" to mark it up to $500?

    This could be its own thread in itself.

    Either way, I will sell for what I need to sell for. Regardless of whether or not the potential buyer knows what I paid for something.

    Agree.

    Founder- Peak Rarities
    Website
    Instagram
    Facebook

  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 15, 2024 12:55PM

    bigjpst-

    As the owner, not to worry - your pricing it at $500 is your choice - it’s called free enterprise.

    As far as being scared some customer figuring your code BS they might as well be throwing darts at Proxima B LOL.

    Coins & Currency
  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 15, 2024 1:12PM

    Yes Market reality can push one take loss / cash flow is lifeblood of a business.

    Coins & Currency
  • Manifest_DestinyManifest_Destiny Posts: 6,896 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BryceM said:
    Or, if you’re really shrewd, you can learn the inventory sticker pricing code for a particular dealer and know right away what he paid for it. That really makes it easier. Usually, with a little effort, you can figure it out.

  • bigjpstbigjpst Posts: 3,101 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jeffas1974 said:

    @bigjpst said:

    @PeakRarities said:

    @BryceM said:

    It’s completely fair to price a coin at market value regardless of whether or not the dealer picked it up at a steal. A dealer is at no obligation to pass along the savings to me.

    I’m also of the belief that a dealer should not be stubborn and know when to take a loss on a coin if the market doesn’t justify what they paid. Unless they have zero cash flow issues they can shoot themselves in the foot with tying up capital in coins that sit and collect dust for a long time.

    Well said. But sometimes I’m stubborn. Other times I’m delusional. It’s hard for me to tell the difference. 😁

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 34,204 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PeakRarities said:

    @bigjpst said:

    @PeakRarities said:

    @BryceM said:
    Or, if you’re really shrewd, you can learn the inventory sticker pricing code for a particular dealer and know right away what he paid for it. That really makes it easier. Usually, with a little effort, you can figure it out.

    I've cracked a couple Dealer cost codes, but honestly at the end of the day it never really helped me all that much. Some dealers have a consistant approach where their ask price is normally 10% higher than their rock bottom net, and the margin of their original ask ranges between 15%-20%

    For example, theyll buy a coin for $3,300 and price it retail at $4,000. When asked for their "best price" by a collector, theyll throw out a quote of $3,750, and maybe $3600 wholesale to another dealer. Even though I know that they didnt pay more than 33-3400, I also know that the most theyll ever come down is about 10% from ask.

    Of course I suppose knowing what the code is could help decide if the dealer is being "Fair" . But if I win a coin worth $500 for $100 in an auction, is it still "fair" to mark it up to $500?

    This could be its own thread in itself.

    Either way, I will sell for what I need to sell for. Regardless of whether or not the potential buyer knows what I paid for something.

    Agree.

    I had a guy contact me about a comic I paid $15.2k for. He asked my best price, on ebay, I told him $15950 at which price I would make about $80.

    He offered $14.5k.

    I told him what I told you.

    He said he could go to $15.5k

    I thanked him but declined.

    He responded, "clearly you don't want to sell it. "

    Lol. I responded that I wanted to sell it. I did not, however, want to sell it at a loss and that was a different matter entirely.

  • DocBenjaminDocBenjamin Posts: 1,410 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JWP said:

    @DocBenjamin said:
    1. Well here is number one. If you are real particular about the coins that you buy, leave the online sellers alone and buy only coins that you have viewed in person. Returns are a pain in the butt.

    1. It is ok to ask for a better price, but on PCGS and CACG slabs, the margins are tight, so let the dealer eat too.

    2. Imaging a half dime isn't so easy, at least at earlier Truview metrics. Don't expect a 70 year old dealer to have the talent of Ansel Adams.

    3. Buy the dealer a martini when you see him. He will appreciate it!

    So you are telling me on an online forum not to buy online. So I take that you have never sold or bought coins from an online site. 😗🥴😵‍💫

    Have done both extensively. But I'll take dreck in the right holder. My return rate on buys is 1 in 1000.

  • JWPJWP Posts: 22,233 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DocBenjamin said:

    @JWP said:

    @DocBenjamin said:
    1. Well here is number one. If you are real particular about the coins that you buy, leave the online sellers alone and buy only coins that you have viewed in person. Returns are a pain in the butt.

    1. It is ok to ask for a better price, but on PCGS and CACG slabs, the margins are tight, so let the dealer eat too.

    2. Imaging a half dime isn't so easy, at least at earlier Truview metrics. Don't expect a 70 year old dealer to have the talent of Ansel Adams.

    3. Buy the dealer a martini when you see him. He will appreciate it!

    So you are telling me on an online forum not to buy online. So I take that you have never sold or bought coins from an online site. 😗🥴😵‍💫

    Have done both extensively. But I'll take dreck in the right holder. My return rate on buys is 1 in 1000.

    Your motto is "DO AS I SAY NOT AS I DO"

    USN & USAF retired 1971-1993
    Successful Transactions with more than 100 Members

  • DocBenjaminDocBenjamin Posts: 1,410 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JWP said:

    @DocBenjamin said:

    @JWP said:

    @DocBenjamin said:
    1. Well here is number one. If you are real particular about the coins that you buy, leave the online sellers alone and buy only coins that you have viewed in person. Returns are a pain in the butt.

    1. It is ok to ask for a better price, but on PCGS and CACG slabs, the margins are tight, so let the dealer eat too.

    2. Imaging a half dime isn't so easy, at least at earlier Truview metrics. Don't expect a 70 year old dealer to have the talent of Ansel Adams.

    3. Buy the dealer a martini when you see him. He will appreciate it!

    So you are telling me on an online forum not to buy online. So I take that you have never sold or bought coins from an online site. 😗🥴😵‍💫

    Have done both extensively. But I'll take dreck in the right holder. My return rate on buys is 1 in 1000.

    Your motto is "DO AS I SAY NOT AS I DO"

    Never suggested that online retail of coins is a negative. Merely an exercise of frustration for the OCD.

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