USPS Postal Theft is now running rampant!
jdimmick
Posts: 9,691 ✭✭✭✭✭
Saw the reports and now I have suffered substantial loss the past few weeks. About three weeks ago, a flat envelope type mailer was cut open and $20 Gold certificate removed. It was going to California , I believe that's where is was rifiled, but not confirmed. Then about 2 weeks ago, I get a package back from PCGS, in this case, they cut thru the fiber tape, opened the box on end, and took out the most expensive gold coin, left the three remaining coins in the pcgs box, taped back up with another kind of postal tape. An inside job for sure, no doubts, even the postal inspector that is working the case thinks so, but could confirm until investigation is complete. I have been a PCGS authorized dealer for 20+ years and first time this has ever happened. This week, I sold one of those better date 1/2 oz AGE PCGS 69 eagles, shipped to Austin Tx. Knowing what just happened, I double boxed it, placed the coin inside a cardboard coin shipper into a small Priority Flat rate box, taped up secure, then flipped upside down (tabs down) and place into another priority box. This time, they cut through both boxes and removed the contents. I was talking to a customer of mine who is a vest pocketer and shops all over the state and he stated that a shop he does business with in Charlotte has had 4 packages stolen the past month, out about 30k. I was talking to another dealer who informed me same similar situation, he has had so many thefts recently, that his private insurance carrier is dropping him.
Post office claim is pending on the $20 Gold note, "they want the package , but the reciever tossed it" so I only have word of the carrier and a pic to stand on.
On the PCGS box, that was shipping to me, I provided them with cert number, police report and pictures of the container, so I hope to hear back from them soon and get a resolve as I already had to refund my customer for the loss.
This last package had minimal insurance thru Post Office, so I dont expect to recoup much there, "they are very hard to get claims paid anyway on coins & bullion so I usually dont add too much insurance.
I have been selling on ebay for 25+ years, and once in a while I would get one lost or disapeared, but now its happing consistently. I have decided to cut out all sales of coins over couple hundred dollars, switch to a different carrier when possible, and try something else. For those that say always use registered, dosn't work, the process is too slow at times, and ebay always sides with buyers in these cases, and then when package finally shows up, they have no recourse to retrieve the refunded funds. You would think most buyers would be honest and try to resend, but many have not in past.
On my more pricey items, I will either try and sell at the larger coin shows like ana, baltimore, and consign more to the auction companies like GC, stacks, ha etc. My local buyers are cheap, so thats out
Comments
Sorry to hear.
FYI - in the past some when some have had problems (or concerns) they have changed the name and address on the package. I noticed this on some I received and asked. The thought was that someone at the local or regional location had or could pick up on specific names & addresses for packages to 'hit'.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=_KWVk0XeB9o - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Piece Of My Heart
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https://youtube.com/watch?v=D0FPxuQv2ns - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Maybe I'm Amazed
RLJ 1958 - 2023
I have zero lost or damaged packages this year. About 1500 packages.
Good luck with your claim. Mine was rejected due to insufficient evidence of value. Even though I submitted receipts!
The USPS is definitely far worse this past year or two.
Damn. Hope that you can recover the losses.
Appreciate the info. Will refrain from selling anything pricey until the PO once again adheres to the motto.
I only mail coins to dealers Via Registered Mail as USPS employee theft would presumably bring consequences.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
Definitely a sound policy, though it takes forever to be delivered.
EtA: with just one clerk on duty at my P.O., I'd probably get shot by whomever is behind me in line. Maybe you have the mailing protocol down better though.
I do not understand how registered takes other people so long. It goes priority from my area and always gets there in a few days.
Jim, thanks for sharing your experiences. This should help the rest of us make more informed decisions on shipping. Many people hate to wait for registered mail, but that may become the only option unless one wants to shoulder a larger percentage of loss.
Those that have shipped many packages with zero problems, I'd suggest you have been lucky. At a minimum, the insurance rates are likely to rise to cover the higher losses. That will affect everyone.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
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Registered does not go by priority. It goes by registered. It has to travel in a sealed container and cannot be mixed with priority mail.
A dealer shipped a coin registered to me recently and it took two weeks to get it. Seemed like a waste of time and money.
I've had some registered packages travel as quickly as priority does but that is luck...it just means that things went perfectly and no employee allowed the package to just sit in the safe.
There have been others where a package has sat in a safe, at some point, for days and days.
So, some post offices/employees are better than others and that impacts the speed of your registered package.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
11 months in one instance. And then undelivered, it was returned to me.
You're right, it shows up when you pay on the payment terminal as an option but it does not go priority. Anyway it does not take that long registered for me for some reason.
Sorry about that. I have been doing eBay and buying from other collectors and auction houses for about 30 years and last week was the first package that did not make it to me. It is a terrible feeling when a package gets lost, never mind multiple packages in a short time.
Hopefully things will get resolved for you.
Donato
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Sorry to hear that jdimmick ; hope you can get some resolution on it. I'm wondering if your name/address has been compromised and being keyed in on; perhaps someone knows what you tend to ship. Though insured items through the USPS is getting riskier and riskier. I know some absolutely will not insure through USPS due to the issues, and hassles of getting compensation on items.
I feel your pain. Several months ago, a box I sent was cut open and the contents removed. A $7800 loss for me. The USPS finally sent a check last week for the loss: $15. Thanks a lot.
Too many recipients freak out when the safest registered mail does not arrive as quickly as they want.
Safe is more important than speed.
Too many people insist on driving at interstate speed in a shopping mall parking lot. One and the same. I watched kids getting killed in a frigging parking lot.
Shouldn’t pcgs be handling the claim on their problem package? Why are you doing all the leg work on that one? We get charged enough for that shipping, pcgs should handle everything
Can a cell phone with a PCGS chip reader app read through the packaging? If so, we need to find a way to combat this problem. Would wrapping the package in tinfoil stop the app from reading?
Thoughts?
bob
I have had one ~ 1 month. I went to the PostMaster at my local and talked to them so they could track and "nudge" it. It was sitting in some safe being ignored until then...
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
I used to sell of a lot coins worth less then $20 and use the Ebay standard envelope shipping option. Sometimes they track ok and it: says "out for delivery by eBay delivery services" (Whatever that is) But they are never delivered. This has happened more then once. So is the PO losing my envelopes or is the Ebay delivery service losing it?. Is the ebay delivery service a part of the PO or a part of Ebay?
Since this has happened too often, I don't sell many coins below $20 anymore.
The PO will hire anybody these days. I was a Postal employee for 35 years from 1978-2013.
You needed at least a high school diploma and pass a the postal civil service exam to get a job at the PO back then and have no police record. Today all you have to do is apply for a job an you will get one.
Even when using ordinary "Priority" or "Ground Advantage" service, I would still recommend that the shipment be packaged in the manner required for Registered Mail. Tampering is more evident that way.
Wrap the newer PCGS slabs with the NFC chip in aluminum foil before shipping to keep it from being read from outside the package.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
There is no separate ebay delivery service. All ebay standard for domestic packages is handled by USPS.
Why are they not paying the full amount if it is fully insured?
There's an indemnity limit on coins unless you use registered mail.
I use registered mail for most packages. This year I have sent 10 packages using registered mail. To travel half way across the US, they took 4 to 8 days. Sometimes a package will get stuck at a facility for 2 to 3 days. The postage runs me about $1.10 per coin. I'm really happy with the service.
Registered Mail is supposed to move through the system like First Class Mail..............at least it used to before I retired from there.
I don't know where the hold up could be. Maybe to save money the items aren.t processed in a timely manner?
I certainly would want to get that stuff out of my office as quickly as possible.
Go figure.
Pete
I previously had some silver go missing that was "out for delivery", but never made it to my mail box. The post office attempted to track it down but never found it. They suspected that it was delivered to a wrong mail box, and the person who received it must not have been honest. The post office manager said to file an insurance claim.
I had other minor delivery issues over the years.
A couple of years ago, I got a PO box, and have not had any problems since with coin deliveries.
This is absolutely terrible. USPS is not what it used to be.
I have a check from a client that was mailed on the 27th that has not shown up. They are canceling and resending to be on the safe side as a local person had a check sent to the IRS recently that was stolen and washed for a higher amount to someone else.
"Then about 2 weeks ago, I get a package back from PCGS, in this case, they cut thru the fiber tape, opened the box on end, and took out the most expensive gold coin, left the three remaining coins in the pcgs box, taped back up with another kind of postal tape."
Why would they leave 3 coins behind?
I've always sworn by a PO Box at a small town PO. As long as you have good clerks it's easy to build up a good relationship and the service will be great. They'll get to know you - and your mail - and that adds an extra layer of security as they would be far less likely to give it to the wrong person.
If you are going to be getting multiple coin or high dollar deliveries...a post office box would be great.
The cost of doing business.
I had won at least 25 auctions from a seller on Ebay. Everything had always gone smoothly. Then three envelopes in a row never arrived. The seller has now blocked me from bidding since he had refunded the three lost items. It's inside the Post Office for sure. I have been at war with PO for years over other issues. Some are just outright thieves.
It's a type of deception.
Throws in a couple different scenarios and doesn't change the weight much if weight is tracked.
USPS employee honing their craft
Make your packages look unimportant and cheap. That's my advice! USPS insurance is asking for it to be stolen.
MS66, over time I learned to have the mailing box fully sealed including applying the special tape going over all edges of the package. Additionally I have a supply of the registered forms on hand and fill them in as much as I can before visiting my Post Office. I have a business check for the postage/fee charges written up except for the actual amount and my signature.
All told I don't hold up the line any longer than the typical unprepared Post Office customer who needs to purchase a money order and stamps and then stands at the front of the line stuffing, sealing and applying stamps to their outgoing envelope.
I expect two weeks travel time on my registered packages - anything less feels like a victory.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
I've never lost an express package though recently they're running late.
I was at a local usps distribution center last week to try to retrieve a piece of mail I mixed up, and got fortunate and they found it and gave it back to me. What I saw at that particular hub were very scrupulous employees, many long term. The problems with thefts must be happening at certain hubs; with today's texting and potential for shady workers communicating with each other as to higher value things and what to look for the risks are worse. FedEx seems to be more popular with major dealers.
Last year they hit the local POBOXES they cleaned out the largest boxes mostly business boxes,
Not the first time. Also following the postman around and Phifering residential boxes. Some apartment remote
Group boxes ,they took the whole unit. The other day there was neighborhood video in a high rent area of thieves lugging a hugh safe out of a house an trying to stuff it in a compact cars rear seat . Caught on a ring doorbell canera. Crazy stuff!! They are also stealing fire hydrants everywhere for the scrap metal. Like they are taking out a tree stump. They are armed and stealing catalytic converters off cars alot now shooting at anyone who trys to stop them. They are having to put more security lock down on hydrants now. Reducing police and increasing the criminal element, I view as the cause.
The only coins I've ever had removed from the packaging were going to California, shipped in a small priority FRB.
usps is not getting top of the line workers like they used to, there are better jobs out there
I had my 1st damaged/contents stolen recently for 2024. I have had 4 or 5 (loose count) packages that have never made it to their destination. Things get worse every month. It is the same for UPS too. Current employees are not the same dedicated reliable workers I grew up appreciating. I know this is happening in the Memphis TN area, but I can't speak for other parts of the country. I do want to say thanks to all the retired employees that were dedicated employees and to the current employees that still take pride in their job.
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I asked myself the same question on why wouldnt they just take the other three coins, and as somebody else mentioned, I am thinking to not throw up flags on box weight, and keep it moving thru system.
Just this am, postal supervisor informed me that all of my packages coming to me , are going to be kept in safe until I pick them up. He did not come out and say officially, but I think they think it occurred locally,as they said they had similar thefts recently on gift cards, and other collectibles coming thru this location. When PCGS , NGC used to send them registered, they were kept in safe until picked up, but since they changed last year or so , they weren't. no longer. It still does not help on outgoing mail when I drop off.
The last package I sent that had the 1/2 oz age stolen, I believe was in the austin or destination post office area but not sure. It seems to me that a receiving post office between here and austin would have noted the box ripped open and contents stolen, as I have the package back in hand and its easily visible.
I am going to change PCGS , NGC and CAC shipping to a FEDex account momentarily.
I was going to list some items on the BST board but you're all scaring me.
Just list them at half of market value, 😁 this so you would feel better and not be taking as a big hit if they are lost in the delivery system
It's probably better to go to shows and sell it direct and then get paid in cash.
Just don't go to lunch on the way home.
With the price some of the dealers offer at the shows? NOT!
I sat in as a dealer sometimes and one time, I had some classic gold, in NGC/PCGS holders that I received a few weeks prior to the show. I took to a couple local dealers. Got really lowballed. Went to the show and asked some dealers their buy prices. Got lowballed. I priced lower than APMEX and others on the sell side and was sold out of over a dozen coins in 3 days.
Not all dealers lowball, but that show, they did. Except for a vest pocket dealer that bought a handful of them. I did some down because he offered a bit less but not a total lowball like others (he was a buyer for one of the bigger guys and, at the end, gave me his card).
I will sell to someone for less than Apmex and then use registered, before selling to a dealer at the show, and still come out ahead for both the customer and me. Win-win.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
how do these postal workers target the high end coins ? they cant possibly open every package they handle ... or do they ?