Rusty 1873 Trade Dollar found in Micronesia - Estimate?

Antonovitch

Hello guys,
I live in Micronesia, and someone offered me to purchase its Trade dollar he found here.
I am interested in it, so I could trade my speargun against here before flying back home.
Could you please tell me if this is an actual Trade Dollar, and give a rough estimate of its value?

Thanks in advance for your help!
Nicolas

Antonovitch

Sorry for the low quality of the picture by the way; when I go to these islands, I cannot bring a high quality camera

CaptHenway

A crude counterfeit of no value.

lermish

@CaptHenway said:
A crude counterfeit of no value.

I agree with most of that. I would probably pay $5-10 as a curiosity.

DDR

Really bad fake.

Crypto

Howdy, I have spent a bunch of time in Micronesia, mostly on Pohnpei. Nan Madol is one of the wonders of the world that nobody knows about. That is most likely a fake but there is a small chance it is a ground dug find since the pictures are so bad. Most it is worth is 40$ if it is, 5$ if it is fake and those are retail values. A dealer would give 0 or 15$. Not worth much trouble either way

johnny9434

Bogus

anablep

Keep your speargun.

CoinRaritiesOnline

Years from now when someone searches "speargun" in this forum this thread will come right up.

CaptHenway

Look at the crude and oversized last digit in the date. If anyone still thinks it has a chance of being genuine, I would like to sell you the bridge that connects Micronesia with Bali Hai!

BLUEJAYWAY

Shoot it with your spear gun.😀

RobertScotLover

Could I please see a pic of your speargun inorder to make a proper decision

alefzero

Yeah, Trade dollars are probably the most counterfeited coin series. Acquiring them raw is walking into a numismatic minefield.

Cougar1978

Bogus. Shop it around bourse find out.

Value = zero.

lermish

@Cougar1978 said:
Bogus. Shop it around bourse find out.

Value = zero.

Which of the Micronesia shows do you prefer, summer or winter?

Cougar1978

@alefzero said:
Yeah, Trade dollars are probably the most counterfeited coin series. Acquiring them raw is walking into a numismatic minefield.

Absolutely.

Manifest_Destiny

@lermish said:

@Cougar1978 said:
Bogus. Shop it around bourse find out.

Value = zero.

Which of the Micronesia shows do you prefer, summer or winter?

I believe you meant dry or monsoon.

lermish

@Manifest_Destiny said:

@lermish said:

@Cougar1978 said:
Bogus. Shop it around bourse find out.

Value = zero.

Which of the Micronesia shows do you prefer, summer or winter?

I believe you meant dry or monsoon.

WillieBoyd2

Wanna buy a trade dollar sailor?

dcarr

@CaptHenway said:
Look at the crude and oversized last digit in the date. If anyone still thinks it has a chance of being genuine, I would like to sell you the bridge that connects Micronesia with Bali Hai!

.

I think the last digit looks plausible for a genuine 1873 Trade $.

But the pictures are way too poor to judge with any real confidence.
The obverse ribbon ends appear to indicate that it might be a "Type-2" obverse,
And if that is what it has, then it would be no good since 1876 was the first year for that Type-2 obverse.

Also, it can't be a legitimate 1878 because those only come with the "Type-2" reverse and that one is definitely a "Type-1" reverse.

.

MapsOnFire

Doesn't matter if genuine or not. It's crap either way. Why would you want it near your GOOD coins?

johnny9434

Gawd, I hope it's not the centerpiece of anything 🤓

Might be a metal detecting coin as well, jmo

Namvet69

Might be chocolate, take a bite!

Morgan13

Don't get discouraged these guys are trying to help you out.
Don't get screwed.

BillJones

Zero. I wouldn't touch it. There is a 99% chance that it is a counterfeit. Even if it were real, the condition is such that no serious collector would want it.

airplanenut

@CaptHenway said:
Look at the crude and oversized last digit in the date. If anyone still thinks it has a chance of being genuine, I would like to sell you the bridge that connects Micronesia with Bali Hai!

Do you accept trade dollars?

sellitstore

Silver doesn't rust. I guess that badly corroded silver can look something like this but it looks like another oxidized metal.

The first 8 appears to differ in shape from the second but hard to tell. Look at the top loops-the first 8 looks closer to authentic specimens-flatter top loop.

Crypto

@dcarr said:

@CaptHenway said:
Look at the crude and oversized last digit in the date. If anyone still thinks it has a chance of being genuine, I would like to sell you the bridge that connects Micronesia with Bali Hai!

.

I think the last digit looks plausible for a genuine 1873 Trade $.

But the pictures are way too poor to judge with any real confidence.
The obverse ribbon ends appear to indicate that it might be a "Type-2" obverse,
And if that is what it has, then it would be no good since 1876 was the first year for that Type-2 obverse.

Also, it can't be a legitimate 1878 because those only come with the "Type-2" reverse and that one is definitely a "Type-1" reverse.

.

OP says 1873 and while it looks like an 8 with a type one rev I assume the OP can see it better than those photos. It’s most likely fake but nobody! can know anything for sure form those photos

Antonovitch

Okay guys, thank you for your comments!! Very informed and fun.
So, I will try to sell the speargun for $300 directly, that would be more judicious.

If I pass to meet the seller again, I will take more pictures with my GoPro and share them with you.
But that's not likely.

CRHer700

If it were real, I would buy it for $15.

Ag100

I wouldn't touch it either. I just reported 8 unslabbed dollar fakes on eBay today. Stay away from unslabbed dollars for sure. I bet 50%+ are fakes.

WinLoseWin

The high, thin rims are also a characteristic of some of these fakes. Possibly an artificial aging gone wrong led to the heavily corroded look.

telephoto1

This is what nickel looks like when it's been in the ground for a long time. Given that and the granularity I theorize a contemporary Asian made nickel or nickel composite fake that was at one time silver washed. Contemporary fakes were the reason that the Trade Dollar was temporarily demonetized so it a seems logical theory, particularly given location of the find.

lermish

@telephoto1 said:
This is what nickel looks like when it's been in the ground for a long time. Given that and the granularity I theorize a contemporary Asian made nickel or nickel composite fake that was at one time silver washed. Contemporary fakes were the reason that the Trade Dollar was temporarily demonetized so it a seems logical theory, particularly given location of the find.

Do you have a source regarding contemporary counterfeits being the cause for demonetization? This is the first I've heard of that. Most sources report that it was domestic issues that caused demonetization; issues such workers being paid in trade dollars but being unable to spend them at face value and people buying them at a discount below $1 and redeeming for face value.

telephoto1

@lermish said:

@telephoto1 said:
This is what nickel looks like when it's been in the ground for a long time. Given that and the granularity I theorize a contemporary Asian made nickel or nickel composite fake that was at one time silver washed. Contemporary fakes were the reason that the Trade Dollar was temporarily demonetized so it a seems logical theory, particularly given location of the find.

Do you have a source regarding contemporary counterfeits being the cause for demonetization? This is the first I've heard of that. Most sources report that it was domestic issues that caused demonetization; issues such workers being paid in trade dollars but being unable to spend them at face value and people buying them at a discount below $1 and redeeming for face value.

Perhaps a more appropriate statement should have been " part of the reason..." rather than "the reason...". I had been reading John M. Willem's book. Better to get rid of fakes in trade while you're making some money on real ones doing the FV flip.

JBK

It was always my understanding that the Trade Dollar was demonetized because it reached the point where the silver was worth more than a dollar.

JCH22

@JBK said:
It was always my understanding that the Trade Dollar was demonetized because it reached the point where the silver was worth more than a dollar.

Correct--as summarized in the below link ( pg38) Exceeded the weight of standard silver dollar (p. 37).

https://fraser.stlouisfed.org/title/information-respecting-united-states-bonds-paper-currency-coin-production-precious-metals-etc-828

Debates/Joint Congressional resolution which the above references are also searchable.

ARCO

Don’t trade your spear gun. Come home and buy a collectible trade dollar if you still want one.

Bochiman

Like others have said, fake.
When I used to work, and go to China on business trips, they were $1 each at the night markets.
They would do things to try to make them look old and to hide their fakeness.

Crypto

@JCH22 said:

@JBK said:
It was always my understanding that the Trade Dollar was demonetized because it reached the point where the silver was worth more than a dollar.

Correct--as summarized in the below link ( pg38) Exceeded the weight of standard silver dollar (p. 37).

https://fraser.stlouisfed.org/title/information-respecting-united-states-bonds-paper-currency-coin-production-precious-metals-etc-828

Debates/Joint Congressional resolution which the above references are also searchable.

This isn’t the whole story, they were first demonetized in 1876 because the price of silver collapsed and they didn’t want them exported back to US for dollars when they were worth 60c of silver.

JCH22

@Crypto said:

This isn’t the whole story, they were first demonetized in 1876 because the price of silver collapsed and they didn’t want them exported back to US for dollars when they were worth 60c of silver.

Certainly, link was meant only as a concise summary. Should have been clearer in my response about that. Fuller history of the Trade dollar, silver debates in the 1870s (and after), all great, and extensive, topics in their own right .