PSA to Dealers - be cautious of e-check scam via "Stephen Schneider"

PeakRarities

Last Thursday, I received an email from "Stephen Schnieder" inquiring about buying a few double eagles. He was very direct and to the point, as if he wanted to get a deal done right away. This immediately was a red flag to me, but i played along until he specified exactly what he wanted (though he never even confirmed the final price, another red flag) and I invoiced him to his email which is spelled differently than how his name is displayed by google.

Yesterday, I received an unsigned e check via "Online Check Writer" from "Catskill Hudson Bank". Another red flag, considering that "Steven" resides in California. I was continuing to play along, so I sent him an email saying I couldn't deposit an unsigned check. Another signed check came through about an hour ago, but this time from TD bank with the same California Address, which again is odd because there are no TD branches on the west coast.

I figured it was a scam and was just going to ignore him, but I just saw in a Coin Dealer group on facebook that a fellow dealer received the SAME order of 4 double eagles from the SAME "Steven Schneider" who sent a check via Online Check Writer. Be cautious of scams like this, they are probably using stolen bank information in the hopes that I will ship the gold before the money gets clawed back from my account.

DocBenjamin

Tip off is the "3 ounces"

Any decent criminal would know that Saints are a fraction below that.

NJCoin

@PeakRarities said:
Last Thursday, I received an email from "Stephen Schnieder" inquiring about buying a few double eagles. He was very direct and to the point, as if he wanted to get a deal done right away. This immediately was a red flag to me, but i played along until he specified exactly what he wanted (though he never even confirmed the final price, another red flag) and I invoiced him to his email which is spelled differently than how his name is displayed by google.

Yesterday, I received an unsigned e check via "Online Check Writer" from "Catskill Hudson Bank". Another red flag, considering that "Steven" resides in California. I was continuing to play along, so I sent him an email saying I couldn't deposit an unsigned check. Another signed check came through about an hour ago, but this time from TD bank with the same California Address, which again is odd because there are no TD branches on the west coast.

I figured it was a scam and was just going to ignore him, but I just saw in a Coin Dealer group on facebook that a fellow dealer received the SAME order of 4 double eagles from the SAME "Steven Schneider" who sent a check via Online Check Writer. Be cautious of scams like this, they are probably using stolen bank information in the hopes that I will ship the gold before the money gets clawed back from my account.

Dan -- Just so you know, while you are likely very correct about this being a scam, don't let the addresses on the e-checks be determinative for you, because those are legit. The address is his address, not the banks'.

That's exactly how they would appear on a legit e-check, or paper check generated by a bank's bill pay function. Also, banks will generally open deposit accounts online for anyone anywhere in the country. So TD's lack of branches on the west coast would not mean that they don't have customers there.

PeakRarities

@NJCoin said:

@PeakRarities said:
Last Thursday, I received an email from "Stephen Schnieder" inquiring about buying a few double eagles. He was very direct and to the point, as if he wanted to get a deal done right away. This immediately was a red flag to me, but i played along until he specified exactly what he wanted (though he never even confirmed the final price, another red flag) and I invoiced him to his email which is spelled differently than how his name is displayed by google.

Yesterday, I received an unsigned e check via "Online Check Writer" from "Catskill Hudson Bank". Another red flag, considering that "Steven" resides in California. I was continuing to play along, so I sent him an email saying I couldn't deposit an unsigned check. Another signed check came through about an hour ago, but this time from TD bank with the same California Address, which again is odd because there are no TD branches on the west coast.

I figured it was a scam and was just going to ignore him, but I just saw in a Coin Dealer group on facebook that a fellow dealer received the SAME order of 4 double eagles from the SAME "Steven Schneider" who sent a check via Online Check Writer. Be cautious of scams like this, they are probably using stolen bank information in the hopes that I will ship the gold before the money gets clawed back from my account.

Dan -- Just so you know, while you are likely very correct about this being a scam, don't let the addresses on the e-checks be determinative for you, because those are legit. The address is his address, not the banks'.

That's exactly how they would appear on a legit e-check, or paper check generated by a bank's bill pay function. Also, banks will generally open deposit accounts online for anyone anywhere in the country. So TD's lack of branches on the west coast would not mean that they don't have customers there.

I understand that, but I was just saying the banks used for the e checks have no branches in the california area, which isnt definitive but it is one of many red flags. Im aware of the e check process, I use them all the time.

PeakRarities

NJCoin

@PeakRarities said:

@NJCoin said:

@PeakRarities said:
Last Thursday, I received an email from "Stephen Schnieder" inquiring about buying a few double eagles. He was very direct and to the point, as if he wanted to get a deal done right away. This immediately was a red flag to me, but i played along until he specified exactly what he wanted (though he never even confirmed the final price, another red flag) and I invoiced him to his email which is spelled differently than how his name is displayed by google.

Yesterday, I received an unsigned e check via "Online Check Writer" from "Catskill Hudson Bank". Another red flag, considering that "Steven" resides in California. I was continuing to play along, so I sent him an email saying I couldn't deposit an unsigned check. Another signed check came through about an hour ago, but this time from TD bank with the same California Address, which again is odd because there are no TD branches on the west coast.

I figured it was a scam and was just going to ignore him, but I just saw in a Coin Dealer group on facebook that a fellow dealer received the SAME order of 4 double eagles from the SAME "Steven Schneider" who sent a check via Online Check Writer. Be cautious of scams like this, they are probably using stolen bank information in the hopes that I will ship the gold before the money gets clawed back from my account.

Dan -- Just so you know, while you are likely very correct about this being a scam, don't let the addresses on the e-checks be determinative for you, because those are legit. The address is his address, not the banks'.

That's exactly how they would appear on a legit e-check, or paper check generated by a bank's bill pay function. Also, banks will generally open deposit accounts online for anyone anywhere in the country. So TD's lack of branches on the west coast would not mean that they don't have customers there.

I understand that, but I was just saying the banks used for the e checks have no branches in the california area, which isnt definitive but it is one of many red flags. Im aware of the e check process, I use them all the time.

Fair enough, but 856 is not an area code used in South Florida, yet there you are! 😀

Everything else you said indicates potential fraud. The fact that a California resident has a bank account at TD Bank, or even Catskill Hudson Bank, not so much in 2024.

johnny9434

There's nothing wrong about being cautious (its your money, keep it) 👍

Morgan13

Federal crime isn't it?

golden

Danger, danger Will Robinson!

vplite99

@Morgan13 said:
Federal crime isn't it?

If they used US mail.

Walkerfan

Namvet69

Wonder what's at 695 Joey Ave in El Cajon?

pcgscacgold

@Namvet69 said:
Wonder what's at 695 Joey Ave in El Cajon?

A house. Comes up on Google/

JimW

If one waits until the check clears prior to shipping, is there still a risk?

PeakRarities

@JimW said:
If one waits until the check clears prior to shipping, is there still a risk?

There’s always a risk when banks are involved, they can pretty much do whatever they want in my experience.

JimW

I was told by a bank person about a decade ago that they had seen fake cashiers checks, so due diligence is certainly called for....

DocBenjamin

@PeakRarities said:

@JimW said:
If one waits until the check clears prior to shipping, is there still a risk?

There’s always a risk when banks are involved, they can pretty much do whatever they want in my experience.

Especially when hiding behind the curtain of the Patriot Act.

PeakRarities

@JimW said:
I was told by a bank person about a decade ago that they had seen fake cashiers checks, so due diligence is certainly called for....

I read a story recently where a man took a $170 cashiers check and somehow altered it to become a 370k cashiers check. He then took it to the casino and got 850k credit via markers and lost ALL of it. He then tried to get another marker at which point one of the cashiers got suspicious and called the cops. They arrested him at the end of the article, not sure what he was charged with.

Pnies20

@PeakRarities said:

@JimW said:
If one waits until the check clears prior to shipping, is there still a risk?

There’s always a risk when banks are involved, they can pretty much do whatever they want in my experience.

And they give all your information to whatever group asks for it for whatever reason they say.

Namvet69

Bank fraud has so many angles, I've seen fake payments or fund transfers not discovered for weeks. Especially given the banking system pipeline. Banks will claw back the money at any time, no matter when the other shoe drops. IMO

skier07

Why would someone living in greater San Diego email a Florida dealer to buy generic double eagles who he has no relationship with? Run Forest, run.

CRHer700

Definitely a scam.

telephoto1

I don't even respond to out of state unsolicited email requests from unknowns for gold bullion or bullion-related coins anymore; for starters we can sell locally with no problem so there's no need to take a risk. Also, there are tons of competitive local dealers in the general area of where this guy lives, not to mention the volume online sellers like APMEX, Kitco, SDB et. al., so why would he need to go across the country to find them from random smaller dealers?

hummingbird_coins

Maybe this is related to the "Chase Bank glitch"?

logger7

For me the usual red flags are that the purchaser is looking for easily sold items, ie connected to the gold price, indifference to an inflated price--no attempt at negotiation, bad grammar. I've gotten these crappy solicitations and I have to ask why me? With easily available material they are just fishing for suckers. Northeast gets a lot of spam buyers and they play along with them.

WAYNEAS

@PeakRarities
Thanks for posting.
It is a reminder to stay on one's toes at all times.
Wayne

TimNH

Is this you? Popped up in my feed today.

"I Almost Got Scammed For $10,800 COIN DEALERS BEWARE!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lh4TcG4UOGI

lermish

@TimNH said:
Is this you? Popped up in my feed today.

"I Almost Got Scammed For $10,800 COIN DEALERS BEWARE!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lh4TcG4UOGI

Dan, this whole scenario must have really stressed you out, you really developed some grey hair since I last saw you.

NeophyteNumismatist

wow... this is pretty crazy stuff. I am glad you were not impacted.

Jacques_Loungecoque

Dan, out of curiosity, does your business have any kind of hold policy for checks? Like a minimum 10, 21, or 30 days? When I had my (non-coin) business running a few years back I had an advertised 21 day hold after the check cleared, before shipping to non-well established customers/accounts.

Apparently a check can still “bounce” and/or be clawed back, for myriad reasons, for quite a while even after it “clears.” Never really had an issue with that policy.

Edit to add: I’m happy to know you’re too smart and slick to fall for crap like this. The “people” that do this should meet the same ends a 19th century horse thief would’ve received.

PeakRarities

@Jacques_Loungecoque said:
Dan, out of curiosity, does your business have any kind of hold policy for checks? Like a minimum 10, 21, or 30 days? When I had my (non-coin) business running a few years back I had an advertised 21 day hold after the check cleared, before shipping to non-well established customers/accounts.

Apparently a check can still “bounce” and/or be clawed back, for myriad reasons, for quite a while even after it “clears.” Never really had an issue with that policy.

Edit to add: I’m happy to know you’re too smart and slick to fall for crap like this. The “people” that do this should meet the same ends a 19th century horse thief would’ve received.

Yes, checks and e checks are subject to holds at my discretion. With that said, I rarely do that because most of my clients are people with whom ive done business with before, or referrals from mutual friends. Most of my decisions are made via instinct, and this is the first time where I would have held a check for at least 5 business days if It wasnt exposed to be a total scam.

Talked to two more dealers today who were contacted by this same individual, so theres more than half a dozen potential "victims", not to mention the holders of the bank accounts being used to write these fraudulent e checks. I can only imagine how many businesses fell for this, and im sure we'll be hearing more about it as time goes on.

AUandAG

google maps does not show a house at 695 Joey. It goes from the 700 block to the 500 block with no houses facing the street on the 600 block (one on each corner faces adjoining streets).
At least that is what I could see.
bob

Alpha2814

google maps does not show a house at 695 Joey. It goes from the 700 block to the 500 block with no houses facing the street on the 600 block (one on each corner faces adjoining streets).

The house on the corner (where Google Maps drops the pin) has "695" numbers to the left of the front door, on the large window frame.

MsMorrisine

i just remembered there is an aba number lookup o the aba official site.

as it turns out, that td bank counterfeit uses a routing number that traces to your area

i wonder if the account number is valid

perhaps you could alert the local branch?

MsMorrisine

the more checks sent, the more wire fraud and check fraud counts there are

if you do walk your copy into a branch, get other's "td bank" checks with the same aba routing number. that will get the branche's attention

MsMorrisine

oreville

Dan, there is a TD bank in your area. Why not check with them on Boynton Beach Blvd to see if the check is legit or not?

Typekat

Why attempt a sketchy deal with a $250 upside and $10,000 downside?

PeakRarities

@oreville said:
Dan, there is a TD bank in your area. Why not check with them on Boynton Beach Blvd to see if the check is legit or not?

It’s not, Robert. It’s a confirmed scam, and someone else’s bank account.

PeakRarities

@Typekat said:
Why attempt a sketchy deal with a $250 upside and $10,000 downside?

If you had read the post, you would know that I didn’t “attempt” anything. I was suspicious from the jump, and I played along because I wanted to confirm my suspicions, and learn more about their scam for my own (and others, via my post here) education.

lermish

@Typekat said:
Why attempt a sketchy deal with a $250 upside and $10,000 downside?

Dan and I were talking about this from Jump Street. It was always obvious it was a scam and Dan knew it. He did mention that multiple times in the op.

Typekat

@PeakRarities and everyone else

Sorry, it was a weak and untimely post. I didn’t mean to suggest that you were about to.

Some posters seemed to have ‘solutions’ to this situation which involve going to the TD bank or some other waste of time. Having gone through these scams so many times in my coin shop days, my (poorly made) point was meant to simply suggest that, in general:

Anytime you’re offerred a suspicious 40 to 1 risk/reward deal, why bother?