1880 O Morgan dollar—my first—beat me, whip me, make me wanna stop

Creg

Straight up $70.00 impulse—what I know about this coin is what I read in PCGS Coin Facts.

david3142

That’s an 88-O but it’s been polished 6 ways from Sunday. I don’t think it’s counterfeit because the reverse has some typical hits, but I wouldn’t rule it out. The obverse has an absurdly smooth look. Probably photoshopped too. Return it if you can and spend some time looking at genuine Morgans already graded (in hand if possible, but online pictures are a good start too).

Creg

Thank you. The cleaning worked. That’s good enough to make me stop.

@david3142 said:
That’s an 88-O but it’s been polished 6 ways from Sunday. I don’t think it’s counterfeit because the reverse has some typical hits. The obverse has an absurdly smooth look.

Mr_Spud

The image appears to have been extremely manipulated to make the surfaces appear to be smooth with no hits or scratches. I assume these were the auction images and you don’t have the coin in hand yet. Expect you’ll gat a coin that was harshly cleaned with lots of hairline scratches.

Creg

@Mr_Spud said:
The image appears to have been extremely manipulated to make the surfaces appear to be smooth with no hits or scratches. I assume these were the auction images and you don’t have the coin in hand yet.

Correct.

Expect you’ll get a coin that was harshly cleaned with lots of hairline scratches.

Thanks, the caveat will reduce my remorse when I get it. I looked for hairline scratches, did not consider photo manipulation.

Mr_Spud

It took me about 5 seconds to find the auction on eBay doing a completed item search for 1888-O Morgan.
All of the sellers auction pictures have the same manipulated overly smooth appearance

Mr_Spud

And here’s the sellers negative feedback

Creg

I should have checked. i failed to study seller’s history and other offerings as I ordinarily do.

MFeld

Please return it unless you think that it would be a good, helpful learning reminder.

The images look ridiculously heavily manipulated. Not that I recommend this for others, but even if it were a good deal - which this clearly wasn’t - I’d return it, on principle.

Mr_Spud

Well, at least the coin is worth its weight in silver if you end up keeping it, and in the sellers feedback one buyer said the seller offered a refund so you might be able to return it.

MarkKelley

As others have said, ALL of this seller's photos are highly manipulated. You can rest assured that the coin you get will look nothing like these photos.

lkenefic

If theres a way to return it... do! Then, you're only out the time it took to make things right. Sellers like this will stay in business as long as they're able to get money for the fraud they perpetrate.

Morgan13

Bummer

tincup

You would also likely have the 'not as described' option with ebay, due to the highly manipulated photos, etc.

As others have mentioned.... I would get the refund on this one!

But don't give up on the series or other coins! There is a learning curve... we all have to go through. You now have some experience gained... use it to your future advantage.

tincup

And I would certainly stay clear of that seller.

Morgan13

Let me save you an easy thousand. Do not buy raw coins. Buy graded coins that have good pictures.

Creg

You guys are great support and mentors. I will ask to cancel, but not push. I own my mistakes. Checking feedback was my duty.

tincup

If I found the correct auction.... they did kinda warn you in the description.

" Due to the large quantity of coins we get, please assume all the coins had been cleaned. Please look in our item specific box above the photo to see the details of the coin and take that into consideration. "

So read those descriptions very carefully. They do have a 30 day return policy listed.... I would certainly still return, unless the coin you received looks much better than the one pictured.

MFeld

@Creg said:
You guys are great support and mentors. I will ask to cancel, but not push. I own my mistakes. Checking feedback was my duty.

I think it’s admirable to own your mistakes, but you’re being way too forgiving of the seller. Even if his feedback had been perfect, the fact remains that he’s engaging in fraudulent manipulation of images on a large scale.

Don’t ask to return the coin. Politely, but firmly, insist on it. I’d be shocked if eBay doesn’t side with you, if it even gets to that point.

AUandAG

"That's what my customers want" was his reply to my inquiry about a year or so ago.

bob

Creg

@MFeld said:

@Creg said:
You guys are great support and mentors. I will ask to cancel, but not push. I own my mistakes. Checking feedback was my duty.

I think it’s admirable to own your mistakes, but you’re being way too forgiving of the seller. Even if his feedback had been perfect, the fact remains that he’s engaging in fraudulent manipulation of images on a large scale.

Don’t ask to return the coin. Politely, but firmly, insist on it. I’d be shocked if eBay doesn’t side with you, if it even gets to that point.

Okay, thanks for the push.

MFeld

@AUandAG said:
"That's what my customers want" was his reply to my inquiry about a year or so ago.

bob

They want grossly manipulated images that mask the problems with the coins?😉

DocBenjamin

Agree. Send it back even if it takes some effort.

Best lessons are only seventy bucks...and the coin is worth $30, even in that condition.

Creg

I turn my mistakes into pocket pieces, I have a few.

TwoSides2aCoin

You should have received 3 of them like that for $70. As stacking goes. Numismatically speaking : high tuition costs. Thankfully” you are here”.

PeakRarities

Creg, that is a highly deceptive image and it solidifies that the seller's motives are not good. Do whatever you can to return it, they do not deserve to profit because of your tendency to be forgiving. That is a disgusting way to do business, and I don't want you to enable the behavior by keeping the coin. If not for you, do it for me .

TomB

Well, I'm too late to really give you any insight that others haven't said already. However, I will ask you if you have vision problems (a real question) given the images you shared look nothing like an unaltered image and, as such, if you have vision problems you might not have noticed immediately the heavy manipulation of the image.

I don't care if you "own" your mistakes or not; send it back for refund.

MedalCollector

@tincup said:
If I found the correct auction.... they did kinda warn you in the description.

" Due to the large quantity of coins we get, please assume all the coins had been cleaned. Please look in our item specific box above the photo to see the details of the coin and take that into consideration. "

So read those descriptions very carefully. They do have a 30 day return policy listed.... I would certainly still return, unless the coin you received looks much better than the one pictured.

I think the cleaning is beside the point. That warning in the description does not forgive the type of photo manipulation that this seller is using.

To the OP: after receipt, review it in hand. Compare against the photos, and learn from it. Send it back for a full refund. eBay will fully cover you in this instance. You only lose your time, but you get a small numismatic lesson in return.

There are many BU raw Morgans on eBay and it’s not necessary to buy them slabbed. It is necessary to learn how improper cleaning manifests itself on a coin’s surface and how to interpret photos. Learn these things, and you can put together an amazing set of morgans from eBay.

Creg

@TomB said:
Well, I'm too late to really give you any insight that others haven't said already. However, I will ask you if you have vision problems (a real question) given the images you shared look nothing like an unaltered image and, as such, if you have vision problems you might not have noticed immediately the heavy manipulation of the image.

My vision is terrible, corrected or not. I quit buying “quality” raw coins because of that. I’d like to grade, but I now buy TPGed coins. I saw shiny.

Thanks for holding my hair while I puke!

Mr_Spud

My vision is poor too, better some days than others because of massive floaters from a vitreous detachment. I too just made a big mistake on an impulse buy. It’s a foreign coin that I’ve wanted for years, but always too expensive. I found one on eBay slabbed by PCGS in MS67 and was 1/2 the price it usually go for. I picked up the coin yesterday at my PO Box and as soon as I opened it I realized why it was so cheap. There were brown splotches all over the coin from what looks like improper rinsing after dipping in something like E-zest. I went back and looked at the auction pictures again and there were the brown splotches, clear as day, so totally my fault. The splotches actually look similar in color to my floaters, so I suspect I just assumed the coin was ok because it was in a PCGS slab. It must have turned bad in the holder, it would never have got a 67 if those were present when they graded it. It’s a “no returns” auction and clearly was my fault. So now I’m contemplating whether or not I should try and crack it out and dip it and neutralize it better and keeping it raw. If I end up doing that, it’ll be the first time I cracked out a coin, and then I’d have to buy some E-zest and hope I don’t end up making it even worse. This is with a coin that goes for about $500 and I paid $250 for it, so a more expensive lessen than Creg’s.

AUandAG

@MFeld said:

@AUandAG said:
"That's what my customers want" was his reply to my inquiry about a year or so ago.

bob

They want grossly manipulated images that mask the problems with the coins?😉

He said that he gets more $$ when he manipulates the images...I responded that that is akin to fraud.

No reply after that.
bob

Creg

Your responses reassure me, not only about the coin, but the time that I spend reading here as well.
I cancelled back there when you started suggesting it and saw the refund reply when I came in.
I gotta get to some shows so that I can buy you guys cocktails. I’ll spend that seventy, and more, at one of your tables, too.

DocBenjamin

@Creg said:
Your responses reassure me, not only about the coin, but the time that I spend reading here as well.
I cancelled back there when you started suggesting it and saw the refund reply when I came in.
I gotta get to some shows so that I can buy you guys cocktails. I’ll spend that seventy, and more, at one of your tables, too.

Glad that you got the refund.

PCGS slabs can be your friend. A decent MS63 Morgan is about the same price.

johnny9434

Omg, how fugly (🤢)

alaura22

I wonder if I can hire them to buff out my truck

pursuitofliberty

Not to beat any horses, but it is VERY important to understand imaging if you buy coins on-line without viewing in hand first. It is as important, IMO, as understanding how to grade in-hand.

The ability to manipulate color, texture and other features is very real. Some photographers do it. Some do not. Some are VERY consistent. Some are not.

There are some great numismatic photographers, but most of those guys and gals aren't big sellers. There are a half a dozen pro' Photographers and Auction houses that I am very rarely fooled by with the images provided (I don't think they try to fool me, but we all interpret things wrong sometimes). Understanding what each of their images look like in hand can be a invaluable skill to hone.

Just my 2c ...

golden

Return it if you can.

CRHer700

I know exactly which seller that was.