All PCGS set with best coin in NGC slab

MichalSPL

Hello. Just curious what your opinion is. I am a buffaloes collector, my set is MichalSPL not yet complete but some work done. Here is my dilemma, I build my set in PCGS slabs yet my TOP rarity buffalo is 15D/D NGC AU58 with CAC as shown on pics. While this coins hold CAC which I managed to obtain by submitting it to CAC would you crack it and send to PCGS or just left this one in NGC?

MFeld

Instead of cracking it out, why not submit it to PCGS in the holder for crossover?

MichalSPL

@MFeld said:
Instead of cracking it out, why not submit it to PCGS in the holder for crossover?

@MFeld
Either way, crack or xover is only a way of moving this coin to pcgs slab. I am more wondering if to do it or leave in NGC/CAC. Thank you tough, sure I would xover it if so.

BigDowgie

Send it in for crossover. I would take a PCGS AU58 over an NGC AU58 CAC. If you get it crossed over, then send it back to CAC. Just gotta play the game.

coinbuf

I see no reason to play the crossover game, but if its the plastic that matters then your call.

PerryHall

@BigDowgie said:
Send it in for crossover. I would take a PCGS AU58 over an NGC AU58 CAC. If you get it crossed over, then send it back to CAC. Just gotta play the game.

No. You don't "gotta play the game". It looks fine in the NGC slab. How much is the cost for insured round trip shipping to PCGS and then to CAC and all the associated grading fees at both places? Also, there's no guarantee that PCGS will give it the same grade or that CAC will resticker it. I agree with the @coinbuf sig line.

1madman

The coin looks very nice. If I were to cross it myself, I would want something out of it (such as an upgrade). So I would put a minimum cross grade of ms60 on the form. I would not crack this coin (makes no sense to me).

MFeld

@1madman said:
The coin looks very nice. If I were to cross it myself, I would want something out of it (such as an upgrade). So I would put a minimum cross grade of ms60 on the form. I would not crack this coin (makes no sense to me).

Regardless of how nice the coin might look to any of us in images, statistically, the odds of an upgrade crossover are extremely long. I’d either keep it as is or send for crossover at the current grade.

erwindoc

I dont think there is a registry set where that variety is required at NGC. Id keep it in its present holder and start a set at NGC where you can use both holders. You could also start a CAC registry where all 3 TPGs are an option.

PeakRarities

I cross all my NGC/CACs, not because there's anything wrong with the grading, but I hate the white slabs and coins just look better in PCGS or CACG holders.

It seems like people are ignoring the fact that OP has a PCGS registry set, and wants to use the coin in that set. Why would he start a set at the NGC registry if the rest of his coins are PCGS?

Try to cross at grade first, and If that fails, that's when you consider cracking out and sending fresh. Just make sure to take good pictures of the coin in its current holder with the sticker, one you cross it, it should be easy to get the sticker reapplied.

BillJones

My most valuable coin is in an NGC slab. I'm not going to cross it. It would cost me a fortune because they have to have a percentage of the value of the piece.

Bikergeek

DO NOT CRACK IT OUT. Per the good advice above, if you want this in your PCGS registry, you'll need to cross it. But if it doesn't cross, it will remain in its current holder with its sticker. Hint: that sticker's a pretty good clue that CACG - the new CAC Grading, not the Stickering arm of the company - will cross it in at least at 58. And CACG's registry will allow coins from NGC, PCGS, and CACG holders, so you could cross it or not cross it and still have a nice registry.

Also as noted above, if you cross it (or crack and get it graded), any CAC Stickering submission is a NEW submission, not a RESTICKER. So having good photos of the coin in its current slab (and close-up if you can) will bolster your case to get CAC to resticker it, which you would certainly want and may fairly expect if your coin were moved to PCGS 58 (or lower).

For clarity's sake: CAC has told me that a Resticker applies when the coin is in the same company's holder with the same grade and same cert #. This happens if you submit the coin for variety attribution (or reholdering for other purposes like a Mech Error fix or personal preference to get a shiny unscratched slab, etc._)

coinbuf

@Bikergeek said:
DO NOT CRACK IT OUT. Per the good advice above, if you want this in your PCGS registry, you'll need to cross it. But if it doesn't cross, it will remain in its current holder with its sticker. Hint: that sticker's a pretty good clue that CACG - the new CAC Grading, not the Stickering arm of the company - will cross it in at least at 58. And CACG's registry will allow coins from NGC, PCGS, and CACG holders, so you could cross it or not cross it and still have a nice registry.

Also as noted above, if you cross it (or crack and get it graded), any CAC Stickering submission is a NEW submission, not a RESTICKER. So having good photos of the coin in its current slab (and close-up if you can) will bolster your case to get CAC to resticker it, which you would certainly want and may fairly expect if your coin were moved to PCGS 58 (or lower).

For clarity's sake: CAC has told me that a Resticker applies when the coin is in the same company's holder with the same grade and same cert #. This happens if you submit the coin for variety attribution (or reholdering for other purposes like a Mech Error fix or personal preference to get a shiny unscratched slab, etc._)

All correct, and just to expound, if you are successful in getting it crossed at grade there is no guarantee you will get a CAC sticker on the new slab even if you have all the photos and documents. While rare JA might decide that his first sticker was incorrect or the coin might pick up a fresh nick or mark that would change the CAC opinion. Again these are rare situations, but this is just one reason why I don't like the crossover with sticker game.

Jacques_Loungecoque

I feel you here. I have plenty of PCGS and NGC slabs. But the coin series within each shall never meet. I guess it’s an ocd thing. Anyways, try to cross it and play the game. I know it’s more money, more work, and a lot of time. But when something bothers you that much….

TomB

Your set is PCGS, you have a scarce coin in an NGC holder and you might not find such a nice coin again. It seems to me that doing a crossover at PCGS with a minimum crossover grade and then back to CAC is the way to go.

RobertScotLover

@TomB said:
Your set is PCGS, you have a scarce coin in an NGC holder and you might not find such a nice coin again. It seems to me that doing a crossover at PCGS with a minimum crossover grade and then back to CAC is the way to go.

Listen to Tom, he knows his chit.
That being said if you care to hear my advice, why do you feel the need to drink the koolaide, it causes so much bs, what happened to just regular old normal collecting habits, that's what I want to know. Who can be bothered with such man made dilemmas

golden

Try to cross it.

PeakRarities

@coinbuf Why the lol? Because I have a preference for non-white prongs?

This aggression will not stand, man.

Cougar1978

No - leave NGC as is.

hummingbird_coins

@Cougar1978 said:
No

The question was "would you do this or that".

PeakRarities

@BillJones said:
My most valuable coin is in an NGC slab. I'm not going to cross it. It would cost me a fortune because they have to have a percentage of the value of the piece.

That makes a ton of sense, Bill. But would you consider crossing it before you sell it, that is, IF you were to ever sell it?

PeakRarities

@MichalSPL

Do keep in mind that every individual is going to have a different amount of risk tolerance, and everyone's preferences are different. There are several comments exclaiming that you should never crack this coin out. Some people have had bad experiences with the crack out game, and they try to prevent others from going through the same thing...

BUT

It can go both ways, and everyone's collecting style and financial situation is different. I've had coins that wouldn't cross from NGC to PCGS when submitted as a crossover, but after I cracked them out they actually upgraded at PCGS. When you know how to grade your series, and you really believe in a coin, sometimes it's best to give it a shot. Your coin is scarce, but it's not a 1916 DDO where they are going to grade with such scrutiny, a "protected date" as we call it. With that said, It's always best to get several opinions from professionals before you crack it out, just to make sure you're not off your rocker.

Obviously, there's much less risk in trying to cross in its current holder, but the graders at PCGS are sometimes too conservative when viewing a coin through the NGC lens. You are the only one who knows your own risk tolerance, and you are the only one who can decide if cracking is a route you should consider; But at the end of the day, fortune favors the bold.

Barberian

I'm in the same position trying to cross an 1887 VG10 half with CAC to PCGS VG8 or VG10 CAC. SLH collectors know this is very scarce coin in circulated condition, the toughest of what I call the "Maginot Line" ('79-'90 - coins with formidably tiny mintages but easy to get around) with only a handful of circulated coins stickered. They don't come up for sale or auction often like the others. I know several people who are avidly searching for one, with or without a sticker. My coin is also a "B" coin, IMO, and I worry about losing its CAC endorsement when I cross it. After coming in hot on Revick to purchase this coin, I still paid an arm and a leg for it, and I want them back someday.

JA is a little guy. I'm very large. Perhaps I should schedule a walk-thru with JA to get this coin stickered.

yosclimber

Your current registry set is the "Major Varieties" set, which does not include the 1915-D/D.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/nickels/buffalo-nickels-major-sets/buffalo-nickels-major-varieties-circulation-strikes-1913-1938/publishedset/347273
So the rarity of this coin is not relevant to this set.

Are you considering doing the "Complete Varieties" set, which includes the 1915-D/D ?
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/nickels/buffalo-nickels-specialty-sets/buffalo-nickels-complete-variety-set-circulation-strikes-1913-1938/2511
That set has 145 coins (vs. 72 coins for the Major Varieties set).

I would say that just having the 1915-D/D does not really commit you to having a registry set including that coin,
especially since there are so many other coins to acquire for that "Complete Varieties" set.
Maybe it could be best to just buy other coins you like and see if there is a set which appeals to you (whether it is a registry set or not).

MichalSPL

@coinbuf said:

@Bikergeek said:
DO NOT CRACK IT OUT. Per the good advice above, if you want this in your PCGS registry, you'll need to cross it. But if it doesn't cross, it will remain in its current holder with its sticker. Hint: that sticker's a pretty good clue that CACG - the new CAC Grading, not the Stickering arm of the company - will cross it in at least at 58. And CACG's registry will allow coins from NGC, PCGS, and CACG holders, so you could cross it or not cross it and still have a nice registry.

Also as noted above, if you cross it (or crack and get it graded), any CAC Stickering submission is a NEW submission, not a RESTICKER. So having good photos of the coin in its current slab (and close-up if you can) will bolster your case to get CAC to resticker it, which you would certainly want and may fairly expect if your coin were moved to PCGS 58 (or lower).

For clarity's sake: CAC has told me that a Resticker applies when the coin is in the same company's holder with the same grade and same cert #. This happens if you submit the coin for variety attribution (or reholdering for other purposes like a Mech Error fix or personal preference to get a shiny unscratched slab, etc._)

All correct, and just to expound, if you are successful in getting it crossed at grade there is no guarantee you will get a CAC sticker on the new slab even if you have all the photos and documents. While rare JA might decide that his first sticker was incorrect or the coin might pick up a fresh nick or mark that would change the CAC opinion. Again these are rare situations, but this is just one reason why I don't like the crossover with sticker game.

@Bikergeek and @coinbuf thank you for Your insights. Tough choice really. Cost to get it Xed to PCGS with variety attribution and then to CAC are quite substantial. I am having a battle with myself over it but Your comments sure helped me in not making the mistake.

MichalSPL

@yosclimber said:
Your current registry set is the "Major Varieties" set, which does not include the 1915-D/D.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/nickels/buffalo-nickels-major-sets/buffalo-nickels-major-varieties-circulation-strikes-1913-1938/publishedset/347273
So the rarity of this coin is not relevant to this set.

Are you considering doing the "Complete Varieties" set, which includes the 1915-D/D ?
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/nickels/buffalo-nickels-specialty-sets/buffalo-nickels-complete-variety-set-circulation-strikes-1913-1938/2511
That set has 145 coins (vs. 72 coins for the Major Varieties set).

I would say that just having the 1915-D/D does not really commit you to having a registry set including that coin,
especially since there are so many other coins to acquire for that "Complete Varieties" set.
Maybe it could be best to just buy other coins you like and see if there is a set which appeals to you (whether it is a registry set or not).

@yosclimber my set doesn't show all buffaloes I have, I managed to buy 30S FS-501 in AU50 which is a rarity, also have 36S/S that is more common yet not that common in slabs, some graded 2 Feathers, some DDRs too. I might actually consider switching my set to all varities. Thank you

MichalSPL

@PeakRarities said:
@MichalSPL

Do keep in mind that every individual is going to have a different amount of risk tolerance, and everyone's preferences are different. There are several comments exclaiming that you should never crack this coin out. Some people have had bad experiences with the crack out game, and they try to prevent others from going through the same thing...

BUT

It can go both ways, and everyone's collecting style and financial situation is different. I've had coins that wouldn't cross from NGC to PCGS when submitted as a crossover, but after I cracked them out they actually upgraded at PCGS. When you know how to grade your series, and you really believe in a coin, sometimes it's best to give it a shot. Your coin is scarce, but it's not a 1916 DDO where they are going to grade with such scrutiny, a "protected date" as we call it. With that said, It's always best to get several opinions from professionals before you crack it out, just to make sure you're not off your rocker.

Obviously, there's much less risk in trying to cross in its current holder, but the graders at PCGS are sometimes too conservative when viewing a coin through the NGC lens. You are the only one who knows your own risk tolerance, and you are the only one who can decide if cracking is a route you should consider; But at the end of the day, fortune favors the bold.

@PeakRarities I very much agree with you, fortune favors the bold. When I sent it to the dealer to sub it to CAC for me he actually said that in his opinion coin is MS and he has like half of century experience. Cracking it is a gamble yet if this coin receives MS it will double its value if it gets lower AU55 it wont loose more than a 100-200$ since it is crazy rare in any grade not just AU. Seems that loss risk is so much lower than potential gain. Thank you

MichalSPL

@RobertScotLover said:

@TomB said:
Your set is PCGS, you have a scarce coin in an NGC holder and you might not find such a nice coin again. It seems to me that doing a crossover at PCGS with a minimum crossover grade and then back to CAC is the way to go.

Listen to Tom, he knows his chit.
That being said if you care to hear my advice, why do you feel the need to drink the koolaide, it causes so much bs, what happened to just regular old normal collecting habits, that's what I want to know. Who can be bothered with such man made dilemmas

Thank you @TomB and @RobertScotLover I fully agree finding another 15D/D in same or better condition is close to impossible. Getting this slabbed by PCGS is the only way to have such coin in their slab. And Robert I also agree this is my-made-dilemma and it actually origins at 'what happened to just regular old normal collecting'. Seems that TPGs rule it strong and choice is play with it as most people do or go opportunistic. Thank you guys.

MichalSPL

@PeakRarities said:
@coinbuf Why the lol? Because I have a preference for non-white prongs?

This aggression will not stand, man.

@PeakRarities this LOL thing could really be removed from this forum imo. It doesn't bring much value to any conversation.

Bikergeek

I see what you did there...

davewesen

@MichalSPL said:

@coinbuf said:

@Bikergeek said:
DO NOT CRACK IT OUT. Per the good advice above, if you want this in your PCGS registry, you'll need to cross it. But if it doesn't cross, it will remain in its current holder with its sticker. Hint: that sticker's a pretty good clue that CACG - the new CAC Grading, not the Stickering arm of the company - will cross it in at least at 58. And CACG's registry will allow coins from NGC, PCGS, and CACG holders, so you could cross it or not cross it and still have a nice registry.

Also as noted above, if you cross it (or crack and get it graded), any CAC Stickering submission is a NEW submission, not a RESTICKER. So having good photos of the coin in its current slab (and close-up if you can) will bolster your case to get CAC to resticker it, which you would certainly want and may fairly expect if your coin were moved to PCGS 58 (or lower).

For clarity's sake: CAC has told me that a Resticker applies when the coin is in the same company's holder with the same grade and same cert #. This happens if you submit the coin for variety attribution (or reholdering for other purposes like a Mech Error fix or personal preference to get a shiny unscratched slab, etc._)

All correct, and just to expound, if you are successful in getting it crossed at grade there is no guarantee you will get a CAC sticker on the new slab even if you have all the photos and documents. While rare JA might decide that his first sticker was incorrect or the coin might pick up a fresh nick or mark that would change the CAC opinion. Again these are rare situations, but this is just one reason why I don't like the crossover with sticker game.

@Bikergeek and @coinbuf thank you for Your insights. Tough choice really. Cost to get it Xed to PCGS with variety attribution and then to CAC are quite substantial. I am having a battle with myself over it but Your comments sure helped me in not making the mistake.

I agree it could cost a couple hundred by the time you are done. Since it is a rare coin and does not really fit in your current set, I would sell it and use proceeds to help fill empty spots in your set.

PeakRarities

@MichalSPL said:

@PeakRarities said:
@coinbuf Why the lol? Because I have a preference for non-white prongs?

This aggression will not stand, man.

@PeakRarities this LOL thing could really be removed from this forum imo. It doesn't bring much value to any conversation.

I don’t mind the lol feature, but I just like to understand why. I gave you advice based on the goals that you described.

If I had to guess, it’s that @coinbuf thinks that everyone who spends money to cross coins is a fool.

My response to that would be that it appears that he doesn’t sell very many coins, because almost anyone who does realizes the value in the liquidity of PCGS/CAC. In my opinion, people who never sell coins tend to not know the market as well as they think they do.

Walkerfan

@coinbuf said:
I see no reason to play the crossover game, but if its the plastic that matters then your call.

Once again, I agree with @coinbuf .

mr1931S

NEVER crack an AU 58 is my advice. No matter PCGS, NGC, ANACS. Don't do it.

MichalSPL

@mr1931S said:
NEVER crack an AU 58 is my advice. No matter PCGS, NGC, ANACS. Don't do it.

Thank you, @mr1931S may I ask as to why AU58 is so special other than being highest circulated?

Walkerfan

@MichalSPL said:

@mr1931S said:
NEVER crack an AU 58 is my advice. No matter PCGS, NGC, ANACS. Don't do it.

Thank you, @mr1931S may I ask as to why AU58 is so special other than being highest circulated?

Because when you crack rather than crossover, you always run the chance of it coming back 55 or lower.

MFeld

@Walkerfan said:

@MichalSPL said:

@mr1931S said:
NEVER crack an AU 58 is my advice. No matter PCGS, NGC, ANACS. Don't do it.

Thank you, @mr1931S may I ask as to why AU58 is so special other than being highest circulated?

Because when you crack rather than crossover, you always run the chance of it coming back 55 or lower.

Virtually any grade coin that gets cracked out and resubmitted could end up grading lower. @mr1931S wrote "NEVER crack an AU 58 is my advice... " He didn't say "NEVER crack out coins is my advice."

PeakRarities

@mr1931S said:
NEVER crack an AU 58 is my advice. No matter PCGS, NGC, ANACS. Don't do it.

I disagree. Sometimes they come back 62, which can be a huge win.

Walkerfan

@PeakRarities said:

@mr1931S said:
NEVER crack an AU 58 is my advice. No matter PCGS, NGC, ANACS. Don't do it.

I disagree. Sometimes they come back 62, which can be a huge win.

I thought of that, too, but the chances are slim.

MFeld

@PeakRarities said:

@mr1931S said:
NEVER crack an AU 58 is my advice. No matter PCGS, NGC, ANACS. Don't do it.

I disagree. Sometimes they come back 62, which can be a huge win.

When someone speaks in terms of "always" or "never", it's often done in an exaggeration that stands a good chance of being wrong.

Walkerfan

@MFeld said:

@Walkerfan said:

@MichalSPL said:

@mr1931S said:
NEVER crack an AU 58 is my advice. No matter PCGS, NGC, ANACS. Don't do it.

Thank you, @mr1931S may I ask as to why AU58 is so special other than being highest circulated?

Because when you crack rather than crossover, you always run the chance of it coming back 55 or lower.

Virtually any grade coin that gets cracked out and resubmitted could end up grading lower. @mr1931S wrote "NEVER crack an AU 58 is my advice... " He didn't say "NEVER crack out coins is my advice."

True but 58s command a premium due to the everyman competition craze.

PeakRarities

@Walkerfan said:

@MFeld said:

@Walkerfan said:

@MichalSPL said:

@mr1931S said:
NEVER crack an AU 58 is my advice. No matter PCGS, NGC, ANACS. Don't do it.

Thank you, @mr1931S may I ask as to why AU58 is so special other than being highest circulated?

Because when you crack rather than crossover, you always run the chance of it coming back 55 or lower.

Virtually any grade coin that gets cracked out and resubmitted could end up grading lower. @mr1931S wrote "NEVER crack an AU 58 is my advice... " He didn't say "NEVER crack out coins is my advice."

True but 58s command a premium due to the everyman competition craze.

Right, but if it’s a no brainer slider, the chances of it coming back as a 55 are slim to none. The Au58 grade has a broad spectrum, and obviously you shouldn’t crack out liners, but anytime I were to crack an AU58 it’s because the coin is very and l think the odds are in my favor.

BuffaloIronTail

I wouldn't play games with that coin. If you want to try and cross it, Godspeed to you.

Personally, I feel that it holds the proper grade. There are issues with the coin that usually don't appear until the 1920's

1915-D is usually well struck on both sides, with a central obverse slight weakness in detail.

Your coin has a very flat top feather that is common on 1924-D, 1925-D and 1926-D. The front of Black Diamonds head shows flatness from failure of the metal to displace properly and bring up detail.

Yes, these are deficiencies that are seen in later years. However, they are kind of in the minority for early Buffs.

It's a great coin IMHOP. I wouldn't mind owning it.

Pete

MFeld

@Walkerfan said:

@MFeld said:

@Walkerfan said:

@MichalSPL said:

@mr1931S said:
NEVER crack an AU 58 is my advice. No matter PCGS, NGC, ANACS. Don't do it.

Thank you, @mr1931S may I ask as to why AU58 is so special other than being highest circulated?

Because when you crack rather than crossover, you always run the chance of it coming back 55 or lower.

Virtually any grade coin that gets cracked out and resubmitted could end up grading lower. @mr1931S wrote "NEVER crack an AU 58 is my advice... " He didn't say "NEVER crack out coins is my advice."

True but 58s command a premium due to the everyman competition craze.

True, but there are a huge number of coins of various dates and other grades that would have equal or greater downside if they graded lower upon resubmission. To me, it doesn’t make sense to single out 58’s.

MichalSPL

@BuffaloIronTail said:
I wouldn't play games with that coin. If you want to try and cross it, Godspeed to you.

Personally, I feel that it holds the proper grade. There are issues with the coin that usually don't appear until the 1920's

1915-D is usually well struck on both sides, with a central obverse slight weakness in detail.

Your coin has a very flat top feather that is common on 1924-D, 1925-D and 1926-D. The front of Black Diamonds head shows flatness from failure of the metal to displace properly and bring up detail.

Yes, these are deficiencies that are seen in later years. However, they are kind of in the minority for early Buffs.

It's a great coin IMHOP. I wouldn't mind owning it.

Pete

@BuffaloIronTail Thank you, and yes you are right on usual 15D strike, I have one raw AU/MS 15D coin that looks like 13P first strike coin. Yet this one wasn’t strucked that well.
I won’t be selling it sorry, really like this variety and yet upgrade is rather not an option.