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What Do You Think Of This 1857-S Eagle?

Manifest_DestinyManifest_Destiny Posts: 6,896 ✭✭✭✭✭

Seems like something got missed. Not my coin, just something I ran across in some of my searches.


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Comments

  • braddickbraddick Posts: 23,946 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:
    I think if it were in an NGC holder it would receive a heck of a lot more criticism than it will in that holder.

    Interesting. I would think it is the other way around as most believe PCGS is stricter, in general, than NGC and so a blemish as large as the OP's $10 would receive more condemnation being in a PCGS holder.

    peacockcoins

  • fathomfathom Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Gives me a headache.

    The question remains are TPGs getting more consistent overall in grading or less...or about the same?

  • braddickbraddick Posts: 23,946 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That makes sense.
    I wonder if over on the NGC forums it isn't the other way around?

    peacockcoins

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,411 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 22, 2024 11:04AM

    @braddick said:
    That makes sense.
    I wonder if over on the NGC forums it isn't the other way around?

    My guess is yes - at least with respect to being more prone to disparage the competitor's coins.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • bsshog40bsshog40 Posts: 3,900 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would almost bet that with both TPG's having graded millions of coins, there has to be a fair amount of mistakes made on both sides.

  • Manifest_DestinyManifest_Destiny Posts: 6,896 ✭✭✭✭✭

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,323 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No sticker for that one.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • goldengolden Posts: 9,560 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow.

  • WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 9,287 ✭✭✭✭✭

    OUCH! That is definitely a no grade. Genuine and badly scratched.

    Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

  • WinLoseWinWinLoseWin Posts: 1,567 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 22, 2024 12:31PM

    Tis but a scratch! ... that almost amputated the top of Liberty's head.

    .
    .
    edtit: forgot the Y in Liberty - perhaps the scratch made me do it.

    "To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin

  • coinbufcoinbuf Posts: 11,256 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 22, 2024 2:09PM

    @braddick said:
    That makes sense.
    I wonder if over on the NGC forums it isn't the other way around?

    Not as much, and not as blatantly as the NGC bashing is here. However, it is also true there are far fewer regular members on that forum and less posts so less opportunities for bashing.

    My Lincoln Registry
    My Collection of Old Holders

    Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
  • RobertScotLoverRobertScotLover Posts: 913 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Terrible photo from which to grade, kind of looks counterfeit, although I am sure it just can't be

  • hummingbird_coinshummingbird_coins Posts: 1,088 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Anyone else think it looks like an eyebrow?

    Young Numismatist • My Toned Coins
    Life is roadblocks. Don't let nothing stop you, 'cause we ain't stopping. - DJ Khaled

  • alaura22alaura22 Posts: 3,159 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This seems to be getting worse as time goes by.

  • CryptoCrypto Posts: 3,673 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Coins like that have slipped though since the beginning but in my experience if a collector sent it in PCGS would honor their guarantee. What was worse was the silent net grades that were prevalent before genuine holders.

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,100 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Back when I was literally the only "Final Grader" in the world, coins like this were given their correct technical grade and then the lowest number grade within the technical grade.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 8,175 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 25, 2024 8:56PM

    It would be a no go for me.

    It’s mutilated, a real dog of a cull.

    Coins & Currency
  • Manifest_DestinyManifest_Destiny Posts: 6,896 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Cougar1978 said:
    It would be a no go for me. Certainly a C coin. Get rid of it.

    It's a "D" coin, which is a secret category that no one talks about.

  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 23,066 ✭✭✭✭✭

    So much is being missed here. We have a pre- Civil War gold coin from the west coast in its second year of existence . Sadly this coin took a severe obverse hit that has a look that ended a discussion before it had an opportunity to even commence at a level worthy of the coin which is the subject of the thread. Instead of dog piling on the grade, can we take a moment… just a moment … to appreciate the coin for what it is instead of the TPG grade?

    Gold circulated… bad things happened to coins once they entered the stream of commerce. Just look at the coin and make an effort to appreciate that it survived. Not everything survived in a satisfactory condition through a 21st century lens that expects perfection. There are those moments when threads seem to focus on problems such as an instance when a coin should have received a details grade. In this instance, I will write and write proudly… Get over it and move on.

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,411 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Manifest_Destiny said:

    @Cougar1978 said:
    It would be a no go for me. Certainly a C coin. Get rid of it.

    It's a "D" coin, which is a secret category that no one talks about.

    That’s not true - you talk about it repeatedly. It’s just that no one else does, probably because it doesn’t exist.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,411 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Cougar1978 said:
    It would be a no go for me. Certainly a C coin. Get rid of it.

    If you’d read (and comprehended) the second sentence of the OP’s two-sentence post, you’d know that he can’t get rid of it. The reason is because, as he stated “ Not my coin, just something I ran across in some of my searches.”

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • Manifest_DestinyManifest_Destiny Posts: 6,896 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @Manifest_Destiny said:

    @Cougar1978 said:
    It would be a no go for me. Certainly a C coin. Get rid of it.

    It's a "D" coin, which is a secret category that no one talks about.

    That’s not true - you talk about it repeatedly. It’s just that no one else does, probably because it doesn’t exist.

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,411 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Manifest_Destiny said:

    @MFeld said:

    @Manifest_Destiny said:

    @Cougar1978 said:
    It would be a no go for me. Certainly a C coin. Get rid of it.

    It's a "D" coin, which is a secret category that no one talks about.

    That’s not true - you talk about it repeatedly. It’s just that no one else does, probably because it doesn’t exist.

    If it was a joke, it’s an old one that you’ve told too many times, especially since it’s not funny.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • Davidk7Davidk7 Posts: 331 ✭✭✭✭

    Nice looking coin despite the damage. The market would determine the price for it considering it's already net graded. This is probably an instance where people wouldn't just "buy the slab" bc they can see the coin has an issue.

    I'd personally call it details

    Collector of Capped Bust Halves, SLQ's, Commems, and random cool stuff! @davidv_numismatics on Instagram

  • Manifest_DestinyManifest_Destiny Posts: 6,896 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @Manifest_Destiny said:

    @Cougar1978 said:
    It would be a no go for me. Certainly a C coin. Get rid of it.

    It's a "D" coin, which is a secret category that no one talks about.

    That’s not true - you talk about it repeatedly. It’s just that no one else does, probably because it doesn’t exist.

    Now I'll address the part that's not a joke. You acknowledged there's a 4th category of coins: Over graded for their assigned grade, and/or deserve a details grade. That's in addition to A,B,C categories. You talk about a 4th category yourself, but when someone says "hey there's a 4th category", you say: "No there's not". I find that mildly humorous, so I made a "D" category joke, and you showed up right on queue.

  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 23,066 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 24, 2024 4:11PM

    Double post//Duplicate comment deleted to streamline the thread

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • Davidk7Davidk7 Posts: 331 ✭✭✭✭

    @PeakRarities said:

    @Davidk7 said:
    Nice looking coin despite the damage. The market would determine the price for it considering it's already net graded. This is probably an instance where people wouldn't just "buy the slab" bc they can see the coin has an issue.

    I'd personally call it details

    It's not net-graded though. If you covered up the scratch, I would still grade it AU-53. I disagree that it's still a nice looking coin, but to each their own. Everyone would call it details though, under no circumstances should a scratch like that be built into the grade. It's just too deep and severe to be overlooked.

    Based on the image provided (albeit a blurry one), I thought it looked nicer than 53 but I didn't go hunting for it online. If that's the case, then that's even crazier.

    I agree that it's too severe, but we've seen the TPG's put puzzling coins in holders before. Perhaps they'd buy this coin back under their guarantee?

    Collector of Capped Bust Halves, SLQ's, Commems, and random cool stuff! @davidv_numismatics on Instagram

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,411 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 23, 2024 10:49AM

    @Manifest_Destiny said:

    @MFeld said:

    @Manifest_Destiny said:

    @Cougar1978 said:
    It would be a no go for me. Certainly a C coin. Get rid of it.

    It's a "D" coin, which is a secret category that no one talks about.

    That’s not true - you talk about it repeatedly. It’s just that no one else does, probably because it doesn’t exist.

    Now I'll address the part that's not a joke. You acknowledged there's a 4th category of coins: Over graded for their assigned grade, and/or deserve a details grade. That's in addition to A,B,C categories. You talk about a 4th category yourself, but when someone says "hey there's a 4th category", you say: "No there's not". I find that mildly humorous, so I made a "D" category joke, and you showed up right on queue.

    Your letter “D” category isn’t related to A,B and C, as those are all levels of quality within a given grade. If the coin being discussed is deserving of a lower grade or details grade, a different letter category doesn’t apply.

    Edited to add:
    I never said there wasn’t a fourth category - I’ve repeatedly referenced over-graded and detail grade coins (as two other categories). I’ve simply said that there’s no “D” category that’s discussed.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • PeakRaritiesPeakRarities Posts: 3,700 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 23, 2024 10:46AM

    @Davidk7 said:

    @PeakRarities said:

    @Davidk7 said:
    Nice looking coin despite the damage. The market would determine the price for it considering it's already net graded. This is probably an instance where people wouldn't just "buy the slab" bc they can see the coin has an issue.

    I'd personally call it details

    It's not net-graded though. If you covered up the scratch, I would still grade it AU-53. I disagree that it's still a nice looking coin, but to each their own. Everyone would call it details though, under no circumstances should a scratch like that be built into the grade. It's just too deep and severe to be overlooked.

    Based on the image provided (albeit a blurry one), I thought it looked nicer than 53 but I didn't go hunting for it online. If that's the case, then that's even crazier.

    I agree that it's too severe, but we've seen the TPG's put puzzling coins in holders before. Perhaps they'd buy this coin back under their guarantee?

    I didn't go hunting for it, but in the photo provided I can see a consistent layer of wear that blankets all of the fields, which automatically makes 55 the best possible grade it could attain. Theres not much luster, so I lean towards 53 rather than 55. If it were net graded, it probably would have had to have been graded 45.

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  • Manifest_DestinyManifest_Destiny Posts: 6,896 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @Manifest_Destiny said:

    @MFeld said:

    @Manifest_Destiny said:

    @Cougar1978 said:
    It would be a no go for me. Certainly a C coin. Get rid of it.

    It's a "D" coin, which is a secret category that no one talks about.

    That’s not true - you talk about it repeatedly. It’s just that no one else does, probably because it doesn’t exist.

    Now I'll address the part that's not a joke. You acknowledged there's a 4th category of coins: Over graded for their assigned grade, and/or deserve a details grade. That's in addition to A,B,C categories. You talk about a 4th category yourself, but when someone says "hey there's a 4th category", you say: "No there's not". I find that mildly humorous, so I made a "D" category joke, and you showed up right on queue.

    Your letter “D” category isn’t related to A,B and C, as those are all levels of quality within a given grade. If the coin being discussed is deserving of a lower grade or details grade, a different letter category doesn’t apply.

    What should we call the 4th category?

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,411 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Manifest_Destiny said:

    @MFeld said:

    @Manifest_Destiny said:

    @MFeld said:

    @Manifest_Destiny said:

    @Cougar1978 said:
    It would be a no go for me. Certainly a C coin. Get rid of it.

    It's a "D" coin, which is a secret category that no one talks about.

    That’s not true - you talk about it repeatedly. It’s just that no one else does, probably because it doesn’t exist.

    Now I'll address the part that's not a joke. You acknowledged there's a 4th category of coins: Over graded for their assigned grade, and/or deserve a details grade. That's in addition to A,B,C categories. You talk about a 4th category yourself, but when someone says "hey there's a 4th category", you say: "No there's not". I find that mildly humorous, so I made a "D" category joke, and you showed up right on queue.

    Your letter “D” category isn’t related to A,B and C, as those are all levels of quality within a given grade. If the coin being discussed is deserving of a lower grade or details grade, a different letter category doesn’t apply.

    What should we call the 4th category?

    As mentioned, there are two other categories that are frequently discussed. They aren’t assigned letters, but are simply referred to as overgraded and detail grade coins. And by the way, there’s yet another (non-letter) category - undergraded.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 23,066 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Something out of the ordinary happened… seems there was a response to my post before it appeared. I will concede here and now that I am the technically challenged one that was left behind and with my consent. And I am okay with that.

    For the record, let me be clear that the only reason this thread exists is because the coin straight graded.

    So my concern is that we cherry pick all that goes wrong in TPG instead of acknowledging what goes right in terms of posts that are generated on this forum. And the larger concern goes back to what I wrote in that the coin itself is NOT appreciated and the focus is on the grade and the plastic.

    Why has this hobby blossomed into finding fault in grades…. Instead of acknowledging the positives.

    Quick question… How many of the participants here own an a 1857-s $10 Lib?

    And let me correct my error… it would be the third year of the San Francisco Mint as I initially thought it was an 1855-s.

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 23,066 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 25, 2024 2:07AM

    Triplicate post//deleted to streamline the reading of the thread. My apologies

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,411 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @coinkat said:
    Something out of the ordinary happened… seems there was a response to my post before it appeared. I will concede here and now that I am the technically challenged one that was left behind and with my consent. And I am okay with that.

    For the record, let me be clear that the only reason this thread exists is because the coin straight graded.

    So my concern is that we cherry pick all that goes wrong in TPG instead of acknowledging what goes right in terms of posts that are generated on this forum. And the larger concern goes back to what I wrote in that the coin itself is NOT appreciated and the focus is on the grade and the plastic.

    Why has this hobby blossomed into finding fault in grades…. Instead of acknowledging the positives.

    Quick question… How many of the participants here own an a 1857-s $10 Lib?

    And let me correct my error… it would be the third year of the San Francisco Mint as I initially thought it was an 1855-s.

    This forum doesn’t in any way cherry-pick “all that goes wrong in TPG”. Maybe for some reason you’re more likely to notice those types of posts. Positives are acknowledged on a daily basis.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 23,066 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Something obviously happened whereby I double posted… something that I simply do not recall doing in my 22 year history. No need to blink one, two or even three times… apologies to BIlly Wilder.

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • Manifest_DestinyManifest_Destiny Posts: 6,896 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @Manifest_Destiny said:

    @MFeld said:

    @Manifest_Destiny said:

    @MFeld said:

    @Manifest_Destiny said:

    @Cougar1978 said:
    It would be a no go for me. Certainly a C coin. Get rid of it.

    It's a "D" coin, which is a secret category that no one talks about.

    That’s not true - you talk about it repeatedly. It’s just that no one else does, probably because it doesn’t exist.

    Now I'll address the part that's not a joke. You acknowledged there's a 4th category of coins: Over graded for their assigned grade, and/or deserve a details grade. That's in addition to A,B,C categories. You talk about a 4th category yourself, but when someone says "hey there's a 4th category", you say: "No there's not". I find that mildly humorous, so I made a "D" category joke, and you showed up right on queue.

    Your letter “D” category isn’t related to A,B and C, as those are all levels of quality within a given grade. If the coin being discussed is deserving of a lower grade or details grade, a different letter category doesn’t apply.

    What should we call the 4th category?

    As mentioned, there are two other categories that are frequently discussed. They aren’t assigned letters, but are simply referred to as overgraded and detail grade coins. And by the way, there’s yet another (non-letter) category - undergraded.

  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 23,066 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 25, 2024 2:11AM

    Quadruplicate post// deleted to streamline the reading of the thread. With so much technology at your fingertips…. What could go wrong? This was Exhibit C preceded by Exhibits A & B.

    My apologies.

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 23,066 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thank you Mr. Feld

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 23,066 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 23, 2024 12:44PM

    Mr. Hall-

    Even though I double posted, you seem to have not read the thread in its entirety otherwise you would have known that I corrected my mistake. I clearly acknowledged that I made a mistake in that the date was not an 1855-s but an 1857-s.

    But a real issue here remains. I clearly acknowledge that this coin should not have straight graded. I would still like to see this coin in hand to just look to determine whether it has original surfaces. No question… the coin sustained a serious hit but it may not have sustained a serious wash… as in a cleaning. And for a No Motto gold coin, that means something. As I wrote, all the negative associated with a straight grade is what is motivating the thread… not the coin… not that it maybe original… not that it is a symbolic artifact of the Old West and what it means to California History but Numismatic History in general. Instead, it is a dog pile on a judgment call that most, if not all, see through a lens symbolized on a slab instead of appreciating what it contains.

    Please… by all means continue the dog pile because that really illustrates that this hobby has been reduced to appreciating and acknowledging a TPG lapse in judgment more than the coin that is the subject of this thread.

    @PeakRarities

    I am fine and rarely have I felt better.

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • MizzouMizzou Posts: 507 ✭✭✭✭

    "wax rhapsodically"

    Lermish, If you keep using those ten dollar words I'm gonna have to buy a dictionary

    Sometimes I think that animals are smarter than humans, animals would never allow the dumbest one to lead the pack

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