What Do You Think Of This 1857-S Eagle?
Manifest_Destiny
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Seems like something got missed. Not my coin, just something I ran across in some of my searches.
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I think if it were in an NGC holder it would receive a heck of a lot more criticism than it will in that holder.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Interesting. I would think it is the other way around as most believe PCGS is stricter, in general, than NGC and so a blemish as large as the OP's $10 would receive more condemnation being in a PCGS holder.
peacockcoins
Gives me a headache.
The question remains are TPGs getting more consistent overall in grading or less...or about the same?
I think that even though most believe that PCGS is stricter, at the same time, many posters here are still much more prone to disparage NGC grading than they are PCGS grading.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
That makes sense.
I wonder if over on the NGC forums it isn't the other way around?
peacockcoins
Well I'll say it if no one else will, but I think PCGS dropped the ball on that coin. That scratch is god awful, and I understand that things slip through so it's no big deal, but I would be sending that coin back in for a review if it ended up on my desk.
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My guess is yes - at least with respect to being more prone to disparage the competitor's coins.
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I would almost bet that with both TPG's having graded millions of coins, there has to be a fair amount of mistakes made on both sides.
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No sticker for that one.
Wow.
OUCH! That is definitely a no grade. Genuine and badly scratched.
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Tis but a scratch! ... that almost amputated the top of Liberty's head.
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edtit: forgot the Y in Liberty - perhaps the scratch made me do it.
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Not as much, and not as blatantly as the NGC bashing is here. However, it is also true there are far fewer regular members on that forum and less posts so less opportunities for bashing.
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Terrible photo from which to grade, kind of looks counterfeit, although I am sure it just can't be
Anyone else think it looks like an eyebrow?
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This seems to be getting worse as time goes by.
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Coins like that have slipped though since the beginning but in my experience if a collector sent it in PCGS would honor their guarantee. What was worse was the silent net grades that were prevalent before genuine holders.
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I'm sure the scratch is stable.
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Back when I was literally the only "Final Grader" in the world, coins like this were given their correct technical grade and then the lowest number grade within the technical grade.
It would be a no go for me.
It’s mutilated, a real dog of a cull.
It's a "D" coin, which is a secret category that no one talks about.
So much is being missed here. We have a pre- Civil War gold coin from the west coast in its second year of existence . Sadly this coin took a severe obverse hit that has a look that ended a discussion before it had an opportunity to even commence at a level worthy of the coin which is the subject of the thread. Instead of dog piling on the grade, can we take a moment… just a moment … to appreciate the coin for what it is instead of the TPG grade?
Gold circulated… bad things happened to coins once they entered the stream of commerce. Just look at the coin and make an effort to appreciate that it survived. Not everything survived in a satisfactory condition through a 21st century lens that expects perfection. There are those moments when threads seem to focus on problems such as an instance when a coin should have received a details grade. In this instance, I will write and write proudly… Get over it and move on.
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That’s not true - you talk about it repeatedly. It’s just that no one else does, probably because it doesn’t exist.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
If you’d read (and comprehended) the second sentence of the OP’s two-sentence post, you’d know that he can’t get rid of it. The reason is because, as he stated “ Not my coin, just something I ran across in some of my searches.”
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
If it was a joke, it’s an old one that you’ve told too many times, especially since it’s not funny.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Nice looking coin despite the damage. The market would determine the price for it considering it's already net graded. This is probably an instance where people wouldn't just "buy the slab" bc they can see the coin has an issue.
I'd personally call it details
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That's all good and fine...and we can marvel in astonishment that this west coast eagle persevered and lived to tell the tale....but that doesn't change the fact that it shouldn't be straight-graded. One of the main purposes of TPG grading was to enable sight-unseen trading, and if you bought the coin sight unseen you would not be a happy camper once you saw the coin.
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Now I'll address the part that's not a joke. You acknowledged there's a 4th category of coins: Over graded for their assigned grade, and/or deserve a details grade. That's in addition to A,B,C categories. You talk about a 4th category yourself, but when someone says "hey there's a 4th category", you say: "No there's not". I find that mildly humorous, so I made a "D" category joke, and you showed up right on queue.
It's not net-graded though. If you covered up the scratch, I would still grade it AU-53. I disagree that it's still a nice looking coin, but to each their own. Everyone would call it details though, under no circumstances should a scratch like that be built into the grade. It's just too deep and severe to be overlooked.
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Double post//Duplicate comment deleted to streamline the thread
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Based on the image provided (albeit a blurry one), I thought it looked nicer than 53 but I didn't go hunting for it online. If that's the case, then that's even crazier.
I agree that it's too severe, but we've seen the TPG's put puzzling coins in holders before. Perhaps they'd buy this coin back under their guarantee?
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Your letter “D” category isn’t related to A,B and C, as those are all levels of quality within a given grade. If the coin being discussed is deserving of a lower grade or details grade, a different letter category doesn’t apply.
Edited to add:
I never said there wasn’t a fourth category - I’ve repeatedly referenced over-graded and detail grade coins (as two other categories). I’ve simply said that there’s no “D” category that’s discussed.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I didn't go hunting for it, but in the photo provided I can see a consistent layer of wear that blankets all of the fields, which automatically makes 55 the best possible grade it could attain. Theres not much luster, so I lean towards 53 rather than 55. If it were net graded, it probably would have had to have been graded 45.
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What should we call the 4th category?
You said that already...are you alright? Blink twice if you need our help, or if you're being forced to say this against your will.
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As mentioned, there are two other categories that are frequently discussed. They aren’t assigned letters, but are simply referred to as overgraded and detail grade coins. And by the way, there’s yet another (non-letter) category - undergraded.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Something out of the ordinary happened… seems there was a response to my post before it appeared. I will concede here and now that I am the technically challenged one that was left behind and with my consent. And I am okay with that.
For the record, let me be clear that the only reason this thread exists is because the coin straight graded.
So my concern is that we cherry pick all that goes wrong in TPG instead of acknowledging what goes right in terms of posts that are generated on this forum. And the larger concern goes back to what I wrote in that the coin itself is NOT appreciated and the focus is on the grade and the plastic.
Why has this hobby blossomed into finding fault in grades…. Instead of acknowledging the positives.
Quick question… How many of the participants here own an a 1857-s $10 Lib?
And let me correct my error… it would be the third year of the San Francisco Mint as I initially thought it was an 1855-s.
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Triplicate post//deleted to streamline the reading of the thread. My apologies
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
This forum doesn’t in any way cherry-pick “all that goes wrong in TPG”. Maybe for some reason you’re more likely to notice those types of posts. Positives are acknowledged on a daily basis.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Something obviously happened whereby I double posted… something that I simply do not recall doing in my 22 year history. No need to blink one, two or even three times… apologies to BIlly Wilder.
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Quadruplicate post// deleted to streamline the reading of the thread. With so much technology at your fingertips…. What could go wrong? This was Exhibit C preceded by Exhibits A & B.
My apologies.
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Thank you Mr. Feld
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The SF mint opened in 1854 so !857 would be the fourth year. I don't care how rare a coin is, if there is damage, it should be noted by the grading company. This coin should not get the same grade as an identical coin without that gash across the forehead.
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Mr. Hall-
Even though I double posted, you seem to have not read the thread in its entirety otherwise you would have known that I corrected my mistake. I clearly acknowledged that I made a mistake in that the date was not an 1855-s but an 1857-s.
But a real issue here remains. I clearly acknowledge that this coin should not have straight graded. I would still like to see this coin in hand to just look to determine whether it has original surfaces. No question… the coin sustained a serious hit but it may not have sustained a serious wash… as in a cleaning. And for a No Motto gold coin, that means something. As I wrote, all the negative associated with a straight grade is what is motivating the thread… not the coin… not that it maybe original… not that it is a symbolic artifact of the Old West and what it means to California History but Numismatic History in general. Instead, it is a dog pile on a judgment call that most, if not all, see through a lens symbolized on a slab instead of appreciating what it contains.
Please… by all means continue the dog pile because that really illustrates that this hobby has been reduced to appreciating and acknowledging a TPG lapse in judgment more than the coin that is the subject of this thread.
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I prefer mine. Hopefully I can get @coinkat to wax rhapsodically about mine despite not being as problematic of a coin as the OP.
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