@DocBenjamin said:
Have done so a few times with my local dealer...but then there were times that I didn't.
If the coin flip or holder had an obvious pricing error, sure. If the dealer is pricing an XF coin at a VF price? LOL. This dealer bought and has marked it up to make a profit. Of course, someplace in the world, the dealer might get a stronger price, but let the dealer travel to China, or Brussels to sell it. Why is your job to be the pricing arbitrage police?
Next time you go to a yard sale, refuse to buy anything unless you inform the seller that it is worth more and that you need to pay more.
Yard sale, Ebay, sure open season. In the OP though I referred to the local coin shop. Maybe a dealer that did you a favor along the line. Maybe submitted some coins on your behalf. Yeah...a few times I negotiated upwards on a coin I wanted. I think that he appreciated that.
@redraider said:
I told a well known dealer he had a coin underpriced. He raised it $1k and it still sold immediately. I should not have said anything and bought it myself!
Did that dealer offer to share a part of that $1000 windfall that resulted from the information you provided to him? I didn't think so.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@redraider said:
I told a well known dealer he had a coin underpriced. He raised it $1k and it still sold immediately. I should not have said anything and bought it myself!
Did that dealer offer to share a part of that $1000 windfall that resulted from the information you provided to him? I didn't think so.
A few times I have contacted eBay dealers that say listed a 8 reales as something completely different and much cheaper than they should have been asking. Could I have taken advantage sure did I no and would not.
Only once did I buy such a coin but I told the dealer on eBay that listed the coin wrongly and he replied I do not care you can buy it as is so I did. Was not a huge score but maybe saved 40$.
I did this once with a nationally known dealer, and I instantly regretted it. He had a mercury dime that I wanted in an OGH. He had it priced less than half of PCGS retail. I don’t know what he was thinking?? Maybe he was looking at Roosevelts or something?? After I told him what it was and what it was worth, he wanted three times as much!! I reminded him that I could’ve easily bought it for less than half and that I saved him a bunch of money. So, he lowered his price a little, but still charged me above retail. 😡
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
On the flip side, I bought a coin online from a large seller at about 25% under market. It was refused and I got a lecture from the office shrew telling me that I knew it was underpriced.
All of this makes me wonder what we should do when a dealer has drastically overpriced his coins? Do you bother to "educate" them, make a "lowball" offer, or just walk away?
@ProofCollection said:
All of this makes me wonder what we should do when a dealer has drastically overpriced his coins? Do you bother to "educate" them, make a "lowball" offer, or just walk away?
Unless you can point out recent sales from established dealers, you are better off just walking away. The dealer may have overpaid for the coin or he likes it so much that he is in no hurry to sell it. After the coin sits in inventory for several months, he may be more willing to consider a reasonable offer.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
A dealer at a major show gave me a price on a coin which was way low; I asked him if he was sure? He checked again and said that since he had given his word he'd probably be bound by it (what else do we have in our business but our word and good name?). I didn't hold him to it. Reasonableness governs business too, and mistakes get made and should be pointed out so people don't get ripped off.
Depends - If I see they are honest and good 100% I would render an opinion and often do. If they offer me melt on a test coin for sale - say offering melt for an MS66 St worth over $10K then no, I find pleasure in cherry picking the heck out of them.
@ProofCollection said:
All of this makes me wonder what we should do when a dealer has drastically overpriced his coins? Do you bother to "educate" them, make a "lowball" offer, or just walk away?
Lol - No there is no reason why I should. In addition they are potential customers. Furthermore I simply don’t have the worry room. When their BS starts (somebody trying lowball me) it’s time for them to leave. My concerns in doing shows are security and at least having a show in the green vs show costs. In reality, The only thing I owe players off the bourse is the item they bought (and paid for) from me, payment for the item I bought from them, and to behave in a professional manner per the bourse contract. How somebody prices their material is not my business or responsibility. Have not seen any “drastically overpriced coins” lol. If not at a price can make money on it just move on. What one should do If you think an asking price is too much just lay the cash money on the table and make a counter offer or move on. My charge is mainly looking at what they have (if something want to buy), seeing where they are vs me (competition pov). My assistant, she does good job scouting the bourse checking if good buys, profit potential or where competitor is on something we have.
@jesbroken said:
I have told many dealers on ebay regarding their coins(attributed correctly) would bring far better rewards. All were not perturbed at all and several were greatful. One gave me a 20% off coupon. Which I finally used. Was not expecting or desiring a reward, but their auctions were for coins I already had or were not in position to buy at the time. Now had I been interested in the coin, oops.
Jim
I've done that as well. I have attributed coins for dealers that I passed on. They increased the price 250% and sold it in a week. It was selfish, though. If I had wanted the coin, I would have bought it at the original low price. I wanted to see how well the coin would sell properly attributed. I was delighted in the quick sale.
If the seller is offering a coin for way less than it’s worth. First I would ask him/her how they arrived at the price they are asking as maybe there’s som missing. Then if it’s obvious they would be shooting themself in the foot I would tell them they are making a huge mistake. I treat others how I would want to be treated. I live my life that way.
The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
Ethics? No. I am not ethically bound to explain the marketplace to any merchant. However, as a friend... I may be inclined to do so on and case-by-case basis.
I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.
Never had that chance. Haven’t encountered a dealer offering material “too cheap.” About the best it’s been is a wholesaler at 5pct above bid. He has a swanky shop in another city where all kinds of material walks in.
Every now and then when at a coin show and I notice low prices on specific Jefferson nickels especially on those coins I didn't buy, sometimes I'd make the remark, 'this one in your money coin due to the strike'. And the dealer would say, 'then why didn't you buy it?' And I'd say, "I did, this one, can't buy the all!".
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
What would the recourse be, say....you find a rare variety at a dealer's table or shop and upon the dealer taking a second look at the coin then says, "I can't sell you this coin at this price, I need to charge you more. And you retort, but I found it and I should get the coin at the price you have on the holder. You wouldn't have known about your mistake until I had pointed it out to you.
Another scenario, you don't tell the dealer of your score or rip until after you purchase the coin.
It's best to take the high rode, don't say a thing. And try to refrain from doing the "happy dance until you're a couple of rows over.
Or....until you get home!
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
I've gotten "winners" from dealers that had sold me stuff in the past where I am stuck losing real money, lemons; so if in the long run you get more of the former than the latter then let sleeping dogs lie.
With successful dealers who've made huge money buying stuff in many cases substantially below actual value it would be wrong for me to correct them on pricing on what they are selling me--remember they may well have ripped someone off so what they are selling it for is based on that.
@Cougar1978 said:
Never had that chance. Haven’t encountered a dealer offering material “too cheap.” About the best it’s been is a wholesaler at 5pct above bid. He has a swanky shop in another city where all kinds of material walks in.
You haven't been looking hard enough.
Finding underpriced coins can be rather common if you know where to look. Oftentimes it's just a seller who hasn't taken the time to check for major varieties or didn't do their research. To me, I don't feel any obligation to tell them what they have - whatever effort I put in to finding the coin myself, identifying it correctly, and then doing the work to get it in the proper holder has to be paid back someway. The dealer didn't want to do it, but I did.
@ProofCollection said:
All of this makes me wonder what we should do when a dealer has drastically overpriced his coins? Do you bother to "educate" them, make a "lowball" offer, or just walk away?
I just walk away. As much as my younger self used to want to educate people, it's not worth the effort and the potential for conflict. It's best to just leave it be.
@ProofCollection said:
All of this makes me wonder what we should do when a dealer has drastically overpriced his coins? Do you bother to "educate" them, make a "lowball" offer, or just walk away?
I just walk away. As much as my younger self used to want to educate people, it's not worth the effort and the potential for conflict. It's best to just leave it be.
Agree. "No good deed goes unpunished."
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I had a dealer at a national show take a coin out for me that was worth $2100 at the time. I looked it over, asked for his best price. He looked at his pricing code on the back and told me $1200.
I told him I would love to have it for $1200 but he must have his numbers transposed.
He looked it over again, looked on greysheet and said, yep, you are right, I paid $2100 for it, you want it for that?
I said no thank you.
He didn’t even thank me which is the only thing that bothers me yet today. I know if I bought it for $1200 I would always feel like I stole it from him.
I’m trying to feel guilty about the three hundred fifty dollars that the supplier forgot to take after he delivered fifteen yards of dirt this morning. He’s a Boss Hogg.
So, I suppose that I would tend to let a dealer know of a mis-priced coin— if he were tolerable.
Your guy was very lucky (your coming up) making a mistake like that. He couldn’t even read his own code.
Generally many dealers fudge up the price for room if negotiation comes into play. One major customer of Ronnie always haggled get 20 pct off. Once his angle figured out, necessary play call adjustment made ….smooth sailing with him. However many do not put prices on coins except for a cost / retail code on back.
Outside of a wholesaler at 5 pct above bid just haven’t seen some grossly underpriced material (unless CF). Possibly any truly underpriced material bought up early (b4 public comes in), quickly (crock example below). I would advise when showing multiple coins use extreme caution and don’t get tripped up on pricing (too low, giving away). If the coins upside down vs you be careful quoting pricing - mistakes can happen. Idk the grades but one guy lost $200 giving away a 31-s 5c ($200 more) vs a 13-s 5c upside down to him thinking it was the 13-s which was bought.
If some dealer does have underpriced stuff then it’s likely bought up by the early crowd. Many show folks want in early for that reason (get a good pickup). Like a crock closest to the pig that comes to drink from the lake, river. Dealers set up early b4 public comes beat out the early public crowd scout the bourse for good buys can make money on. Then do some vest pocket flipping, selling later make $$ flipping it
In my case, yes. I pretty much do biz only with dealers I know & trust, or have a referral from a common contact. These relationships are reciprocal, so I’m sure it would cut both ways.
@Copperindian said:
In my case, yes. I pretty much do biz only with dealers I know & trust, or have a referral from a common contact. These relationships are reciprocal, so I’m sure it would cut both ways.
Statements like this are interesting because it implies you can never do business with anyone new. At one point all of the dealers you know and trust were new to you so you must have made a leap of faith at some point.
@Copperindian said:
In my case, yes. I pretty much do biz only with dealers I know & trust, or have a referral from a common contact. These relationships are reciprocal, so I’m sure it would cut both ways.
Statements like this are interesting because it implies you can never do business with anyone new. At one point all of the dealers you know and trust were new to you so you must have made a leap of faith at some point.
“Or have a referral from a common contact”. Those are new. Sure, I’ve made a leap of faith in the past, sometimes to my detriment. We all have. But as I have years behind me (many - don’t ask), the leaps of faith are minimal if at all.
I’ve only done it once for a dealer that was a friend. I think he was trying to give me a break and I never use friendship to get a break.
I had a friend that was a great mechanic. I told him charge me whatever you would charge any other customer. I come to you because I know you’ll do the work you say needs to be done and the work you say needs to be done really needs to be done.
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
Dealers on the bourse regularly treat me as If i know nothing. So when they know nothing I let it ride.
After 50 years of hard core collecting, I have on occasion pointed out counterfeits or mislabeling by the TPG in Bourse cases they don't even take me seriuosly to even check it out. Recently I pointed out (3 times) an obvious slabbed counterfeit coin in a Heritage Auction ( 50 years an expert on this coin helped document the CF Diagnostics that have been published) yet they just ghosted me. Feel sad someone is going to get burned. It's not a maybe counterfeit either. So i am letting this one ride too.
Comments
Yard sale, Ebay, sure open season. In the OP though I referred to the local coin shop. Maybe a dealer that did you a favor along the line. Maybe submitted some coins on your behalf. Yeah...a few times I negotiated upwards on a coin I wanted. I think that he appreciated that.
Did that dealer offer to share a part of that $1000 windfall that resulted from the information you provided to him? I didn't think so.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
The good dealers remember that stuff.
A few times I have contacted eBay dealers that say listed a 8 reales as something completely different and much cheaper than they should have been asking. Could I have taken advantage sure did I no and would not.
Only once did I buy such a coin but I told the dealer on eBay that listed the coin wrongly and he replied I do not care you can buy it as is so I did. Was not a huge score but maybe saved 40$.
I did this once with a nationally known dealer, and I instantly regretted it. He had a mercury dime that I wanted in an OGH. He had it priced less than half of PCGS retail. I don’t know what he was thinking?? Maybe he was looking at Roosevelts or something?? After I told him what it was and what it was worth, he wanted three times as much!! I reminded him that I could’ve easily bought it for less than half and that I saved him a bunch of money. So, he lowered his price a little, but still charged me above retail. 😡
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
On the flip side, I bought a coin online from a large seller at about 25% under market. It was refused and I got a lecture from the office shrew telling me that I knew it was underpriced.
Think I may go back to collecting Pez dispensers.
All of this makes me wonder what we should do when a dealer has drastically overpriced his coins? Do you bother to "educate" them, make a "lowball" offer, or just walk away?
On both sides of these examples the W.C. Fields phrase comes to mind:"Never give a sucker an even break".
Unless you can point out recent sales from established dealers, you are better off just walking away. The dealer may have overpaid for the coin or he likes it so much that he is in no hurry to sell it. After the coin sits in inventory for several months, he may be more willing to consider a reasonable offer.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
A dealer at a major show gave me a price on a coin which was way low; I asked him if he was sure? He checked again and said that since he had given his word he'd probably be bound by it (what else do we have in our business but our word and good name?). I didn't hold him to it. Reasonableness governs business too, and mistakes get made and should be pointed out so people don't get ripped off.
Depends - If I see they are honest and good 100% I would render an opinion and often do. If they offer me melt on a test coin for sale - say offering melt for an MS66 St worth over $10K then no, I find pleasure in cherry picking the heck out of them.
Lol - No there is no reason why I should. In addition they are potential customers. Furthermore I simply don’t have the worry room. When their BS starts (somebody trying lowball me) it’s time for them to leave. My concerns in doing shows are security and at least having a show in the green vs show costs. In reality, The only thing I owe players off the bourse is the item they bought (and paid for) from me, payment for the item I bought from them, and to behave in a professional manner per the bourse contract. How somebody prices their material is not my business or responsibility. Have not seen any “drastically overpriced coins” lol. If not at a price can make money on it just move on. What one should do If you think an asking price is too much just lay the cash money on the table and make a counter offer or move on. My charge is mainly looking at what they have (if something want to buy), seeing where they are vs me (competition pov). My assistant, she does good job scouting the bourse checking if good buys, profit potential or where competitor is on something we have.
I've done that as well. I have attributed coins for dealers that I passed on. They increased the price 250% and sold it in a week. It was selfish, though. If I had wanted the coin, I would have bought it at the original low price. I wanted to see how well the coin would sell properly attributed. I was delighted in the quick sale.
If the seller is offering a coin for way less than it’s worth. First I would ask him/her how they arrived at the price they are asking as maybe there’s som missing. Then if it’s obvious they would be shooting themself in the foot I would tell them they are making a huge mistake. I treat others how I would want to be treated. I live my life that way.
Ethics? No. I am not ethically bound to explain the marketplace to any merchant. However, as a friend... I may be inclined to do so on and case-by-case basis.
I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.
Never had that chance. Haven’t encountered a dealer offering material “too cheap.” About the best it’s been is a wholesaler at 5pct above bid. He has a swanky shop in another city where all kinds of material walks in.
no
Every now and then when at a coin show and I notice low prices on specific Jefferson nickels especially on those coins I didn't buy, sometimes I'd make the remark, 'this one in your money coin due to the strike'. And the dealer would say, 'then why didn't you buy it?' And I'd say, "I did, this one, can't buy the all!".
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
It would be contingent on how I felt about the dealer. Based on previous experience with them etc
@Sapyx: if I buy a mis-identified coin cheap, this makes me dishonest?
I would tell a friend the coin was mis-identified; but if the seller, friend or not, was a big time dealer I'd just buy the coin.
What would the recourse be, say....you find a rare variety at a dealer's table or shop and upon the dealer taking a second look at the coin then says, "I can't sell you this coin at this price, I need to charge you more. And you retort, but I found it and I should get the coin at the price you have on the holder. You wouldn't have known about your mistake until I had pointed it out to you.
Another scenario, you don't tell the dealer of your score or rip until after you purchase the coin.
It's best to take the high rode, don't say a thing. And try to refrain from doing the "happy dance until you're a couple of rows over.
Or....until you get home!
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
I've gotten "winners" from dealers that had sold me stuff in the past where I am stuck losing real money, lemons; so if in the long run you get more of the former than the latter then let sleeping dogs lie.
With successful dealers who've made huge money buying stuff in many cases substantially below actual value it would be wrong for me to correct them on pricing on what they are selling me--remember they may well have ripped someone off so what they are selling it for is based on that.
You haven't been looking hard enough.
Finding underpriced coins can be rather common if you know where to look. Oftentimes it's just a seller who hasn't taken the time to check for major varieties or didn't do their research. To me, I don't feel any obligation to tell them what they have - whatever effort I put in to finding the coin myself, identifying it correctly, and then doing the work to get it in the proper holder has to be paid back someway. The dealer didn't want to do it, but I did.
Coin Photographer.
No. They determin the price. If I think it is too high, I will offer a price that I'm comfortable with.
USN & USAF retired 1971-1993
Successful Transactions with more than 100 Members
I just walk away. As much as my younger self used to want to educate people, it's not worth the effort and the potential for conflict. It's best to just leave it be.
Agree. "No good deed goes unpunished."
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
You're like me. That's their hard luck unless I like them. Caveat venditor.
I have been collecting 25 years, I don't think I have ever seen a dealer underprice a coin. Is that a thing?
I had a dealer at a national show take a coin out for me that was worth $2100 at the time. I looked it over, asked for his best price. He looked at his pricing code on the back and told me $1200.
I told him I would love to have it for $1200 but he must have his numbers transposed.
He looked it over again, looked on greysheet and said, yep, you are right, I paid $2100 for it, you want it for that?
I said no thank you.
He didn’t even thank me which is the only thing that bothers me yet today. I know if I bought it for $1200 I would always feel like I stole it from him.
Successful transactions with: Lakesammman, jimineez1, Flackthat, PerryHall, bidask, bccox, TwistedArrow1962, free_spirit, alexerca, scooter25, FHC, tnspro, mcarney1173, moursund, and SurfinxHI (6 times)
This.
Just buy the coin not the holder err I mean helper
I’m trying to feel guilty about the three hundred fifty dollars that the supplier forgot to take after he delivered fifteen yards of dirt this morning. He’s a Boss Hogg.
So, I suppose that I would tend to let a dealer know of a mis-priced coin— if he were tolerable.
Your guy was very lucky (your coming up) making a mistake like that. He couldn’t even read his own code.
Generally many dealers fudge up the price for room if negotiation comes into play. One major customer of Ronnie always haggled get 20 pct off. Once his angle figured out, necessary play call adjustment made ….smooth sailing with him. However many do not put prices on coins except for a cost / retail code on back.
Outside of a wholesaler at 5 pct above bid just haven’t seen some grossly underpriced material (unless CF). Possibly any truly underpriced material bought up early (b4 public comes in), quickly (crock example below). I would advise when showing multiple coins use extreme caution and don’t get tripped up on pricing (too low, giving away). If the coins upside down vs you be careful quoting pricing - mistakes can happen. Idk the grades but one guy lost $200 giving away a 31-s 5c ($200 more) vs a 13-s 5c upside down to him thinking it was the 13-s which was bought.
If some dealer does have underpriced stuff then it’s likely bought up by the early crowd. Many show folks want in early for that reason (get a good pickup). Like a crock closest to the pig that comes to drink from the lake, river. Dealers set up early b4 public comes beat out the early public crowd scout the bourse for good buys can make money on. Then do some vest pocket flipping, selling later make $$ flipping it
In my case, yes. I pretty much do biz only with dealers I know & trust, or have a referral from a common contact. These relationships are reciprocal, so I’m sure it would cut both ways.
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
Statements like this are interesting because it implies you can never do business with anyone new. At one point all of the dealers you know and trust were new to you so you must have made a leap of faith at some point.
“Or have a referral from a common contact”. Those are new. Sure, I’ve made a leap of faith in the past, sometimes to my detriment. We all have. But as I have years behind me (many - don’t ask), the leaps of faith are minimal if at all.
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
I’ve only done it once for a dealer that was a friend. I think he was trying to give me a break and I never use friendship to get a break.
I had a friend that was a great mechanic. I told him charge me whatever you would charge any other customer. I come to you because I know you’ll do the work you say needs to be done and the work you say needs to be done really needs to be done.
Dealers on the bourse regularly treat me as If i know nothing. So when they know nothing I let it ride.
After 50 years of hard core collecting, I have on occasion pointed out counterfeits or mislabeling by the TPG in Bourse cases they don't even take me seriuosly to even check it out. Recently I pointed out (3 times) an obvious slabbed counterfeit coin in a Heritage Auction ( 50 years an expert on this coin helped document the CF Diagnostics that have been published) yet they just ghosted me. Feel sad someone is going to get burned. It's not a maybe counterfeit either. So i am letting this one ride too.
No.
Only when the dealer is a friend.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)