Do coins tend to "recycle" on Great Collections?
Hallco
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I'm watching a certain Morgan Dollar and when I look back at the price history, this same coin has sold multiple times over the last few years. This one has currently has the added VSS Vam attribution this time, but it's the same coin. I don't buy a lot of coins these days and in most cases would not have paid much attention to even notice. Is this a norm now, or is this coin an exception? And for those who will ask....It is a common date Morgan, but it is nicely toned and not in a high grade condition.
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Yes. That's common on many auction sites.
That's funny, when I see a coin on GC I always go to the auctive archives page and see if the coin has been through them in the past. Many times I see the same coin being offered again. There you can see when and how much the coin sold for. I use this information as a guild
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
Yes. A lot of the coins you see in auctions are not consignments, they actually belong to the auction house. The auction house will put it through auction, but if it doesnt reach a certain threshold than the auction house will "buy it back". No money is exchanged, but their system will bid up to that threshold to make sure it doesn't go too cheap.
They'll wait a little while and try it again. Lather, rinse and repeat until the desired result is achieved. I'm not asserting that is the case with the coin you're speaking of, but it's certainly possible and it would make the most sense.
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I had not considered that as a possibility!
Thank you for the reply!
I've seen the same coins show up again at the various auction houses (or at one auction house and then another). There are enough people out there that don't hold something long. They try to resell and if it isn't successful, it could go back to auction soon after. Another possibility is that the coin did sell to a different dealer who then sent it to auction (likely not even checking that it previously sold at a place like GC). And in some cases, people have tried to upgrade the coin. After achieving the grade bump or failing, they send it back to auction to capitalize on the gain or cut their losses.
Or you have a collector like me who sometimes buys a coin from GC, then, once I have it in hand, discovers that it doesn’t actually appeal to me much. In those cases I generally hold the coin for a year or less before consigning it back to GC for another sale.
Some people like to flip coins, especially when they buy it for a good price and have a variety attributed and then hopefully sell it for a higher amount.
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I have bought and then resold dozens of coins at GC. I will always buy something I like if I can get it for the right price, even if I don't plan on keeping it in my personal collection. I will enjoy it for a while and then put it back up and hope I can at least break even.
I have bought coins at auction, and when i received them and didn't like them, turned around and had the auction house resell them for me.
The cost to me (what i paid at auction - what i get back reselling them) is most of the time less than what it would have cost me to travel to the auction lot viewing to view the coin in hand.
I've bought and resold a few that I had upgraded later and now the first one was extra, usually works well. Not so good last night on my 1914-D XF45 Lincoln though.
In the past, I’ve bid & won coins I think are undervalued. Almost always, they’re IHC’s or FE’s. In all cases, they are coins I wouldn’t mind keeping if I can’t resell them. I just bought this one at a good price point:
I’m consigning it for sale with another dealer. It should be a $$$ maker, but if not it’s well worth keeping.
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
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66% of the coins in the entire hobby’s retail channels are short term recycles looking for consumer homes. Auction Houses are no different.
Rare (as a percentage of transactions) is the fresh to market after a long term hold that only goes though one or two resellers and back into long term holdings. Getting in on those transactions is part of the game of the hobby. Many new collectors feast on the retreads early and that is where much of their schooling comes from if they stick it though long enough to take the lumps.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
The cost and turnaround time to buy and sell on GC makes it an environment more favorable to reselling quickly than other auction companies.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
This is why I always either see the coin in hand or have someone I trust look at it for me. I don't like surprises.
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@Hallco did you win the coin? If it’s the one I think you meant, I was bidding too but didn’t win. It went for less than the most recent sale but more than the sales before that.
They all recycle, no worries 👍
I have bought many nice coins from GC. They sell well for me (my table) on the bourse, private investor clients.
I did not. If we are talking about the same one(and it appears that we are), it had a beautiful color on the reverse.... but the hits on the obverse limited my desire to go much higher than I bid. I wonder if it will be in another auction soon?
I see coins on GC come up over and over with the same overpriced starting bid, and they never sell. I've been watching auctions for 1793 copper for years and the same crusty junk keeps getting put out there. I love GC overall but this does clog things up.
The bidding on every coin should start at $0 and not held out to some imaginary yesterday value that's no longer supported by demand. Waiting for some poor sap sucker who's not up-to-date with whatever. Yeah, sure, ka-ging for the auction house and consigner doing everything that's wrong with the hobby but what about the buyer who's getting buried with a very likely overgraded and over-priced POS?
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
I agree, that's one of the few things that I could criticize. You see the same re treads "auction" over and over as the starting bid gradually declines. Many times, this is caused by the consignors unrealistic expectations and too high of a starting bid, then once it goes stale, its stale.
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‘’@TimNH said:
I see coins on GC come up over and over with the same overpriced starting bid, and they never sell. I've been watching auctions for 1793 copper for years and the same crusty junk keeps getting put out there. I love GC overall but this does clog things up.
I agree, that's one of the few things that I could criticize. You see the same re treads "auction" over and over as the starting bid gradually declines. Many times, this is caused by the consignors unrealistic expectations and too high of a starting bid, then once it goes stale, its stale.”
And, it’s not just “crusty junk”. I saw a pattern coin come up earlier in the year that I personally believed was overpriced (as I was the underbidder at the Heritage sale at a much lower price and the coin was reappearing at GC). I made an offer for the coin after it failed to sell that I believed was fair. The consignor obviously passed and that is fine. But, then why allow the coin to come up for auction 3,4,5x (or 8x) times again and again at the exact same price? I totally lost track at how many times the coin has now made reappearances at the exact same opening bid). It makes no sense to me that is in GC’s best interest. Am I missing something?
Wondercoin
Agreed, better to put the coin away for many years and then play up the story how the pattern or coin was hidden for so many years as fresh material. The key is the ability to have staying power.
How much does GC charge the consigner when a coin doesn't sell?
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"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
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I agree with a lot of the posts here that many of the auctions start too high. I’ve seen numerous moderns listed with a starting price higher than that of the same coin in lower grades - based on their own recent selling prices! And no, they didn’t have some kinda amazing eye appeal warranting such a starting price. I just move on like everyone else with those. Start everything at $1.
Having fun while switching things up and focusing on a next level PCGS slabbed 1950+ type set, while still looking for great examples for the 7070.
@wondercoin
I don’t think we’re missing anything. Likely, Ian probably tries to go above and beyond to make everyone happy, when the reality is that many collectors are unrealistic and Ian has a tough time telling them “no way, you’re smoking crack.” When they ask to start the bid at 110% of full retail.
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They have put in some substantial min bids on the really nice world slabbed low pop material. In past b4 that would win some nice pickoffs get 2-3x cost or more fantastic retail money : profit at shows. One flipped to dealer at show 4x cost. They way undervalued vs the some of the over priced US. Perhaps the consignors not happy lol complained then that change. I don’t have time check past results let alone give a hoot. That’s past history. What I am looking for are wins in that arena can make keystone or more retail money on. Sort of like that reverse play the Texans just ran for 30 plus yards. Buy low / sell high. Not some bid war with some rich US collector on some CAC coin then I buried in it. Now I have trained my assistant to scout for some (coins, currency here and there) - she is real sharp in giving me a list of good yardage plays.
Zero
Then the coin goes back up, and if it doesn't sell for 5 times the consigner will get charged another listing fee
Starting coins at $0 is riskey, if nobody sees it!
If it were your $$$$ coin would you really take a chance of starting it at $0?
A realistic starting bid, say 80% of value would be wise
JMO
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
No way I would want start an item way below MV. Not my style. Those consignors it’s on them if they gave it away rofl. My wins fair and square other bidders could have bid on them.
Yes as a submitter without a realistic starting bid I would be very averse that risk. As a bidder a low bid start on item on my watch list item staying in range - excited like a U boat skipper following a convoy looking sink lots of tonnage.
Hey, you better cut it out! You….you… quote troll!
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With Jefferson nickels, I see a few sellers doing just that all the time on eBay, starting auctions at $0. But if you have a coin that's is unique or almost then yeah, slap a big number on it and see what happens. But I really think most buyers want to know the demand gauge on most coins. You don't want to be caught outbidding thyself when you're the only one seemingly showing interest in a coin. lol
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
So based on the above... if I am bidding against say "bidder 6", bidder 6 could be Great Collections itself?
Casual collector, mostly Morgans & Peace Dollars.
Since it's basically a fixed price sale, why don't they move it into a fixed price listing where it can sit until Ian is tired of it or the consignor wants it back?
No I would not start it low or near zero. Perhaps 10 pct back of bid maybe a startup parameter. Many sending to auction likely would do better shopping coin around bourse at a show. Auction performance can vary due to impact from other venues, ballgames, monies.
What does this propaganda have to do with coins lol?
I’ve bought fixed price coins from GC and done well with them. Mostly bullion issues. Not some high margin but at least 5 bucks over cost, some more.
The way I see it, a 0$ starting bid carries the same risk of a 70% or 80% starting bid. When you start at 0, you'll get more views and a lot more watchers on an item. There are thousands of dealers who use GC to make a living, and most dealers would buy any type of coin if its only 70% of FMV (True FMV. Not optimistic price guide FMV that's more than any auction record). Starting at 70% or 80% might give you a sense of security, but you'd still be pretty darn disappointed if that was the only bid, right?
I see goofy starting bids, and I just scroll on by. IMO, if someones not comfortable with taking a risk and their starting bid is full retail, they shouldn't be using an auction format to sell their coins then. I like DLRC, but I dont even bother to check the auctions because there not true auctions. I a;ways get excited when I get an email from GC telling me theres pioneer gold that was listed, but then I see that its the same scrubby coin thats been on the website for the past 3 months lol.
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Dan, It's been a while since I sold anything
When I do I start the coin at 80% of FMV, at that starting point I will make money on the coin, so if it only gets 1 bid I'm covered.
Now if you got paid by the number of bids it received that would be a different story.
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
The recycle problem is so bad for the coins I search for, my bookmarks have the 1+ bids filter. If zero bids, I never even see it anymore.
>
Gotcha, I see where you're coming from and being in the green at 80% helps a lot. Just a possible factor to consider- A listing with 0 bids is less likely to get a click from me. This is not a generalization nor am I speaking for anyone else, but when I see a strong starting price with no bids I'm probably not opening that listing unless the coin relly grabs my attention. You're a reasonable guy Mike so this isn't directed at you, but to some collectors FMV is high retail, and 80% of that could end up translating to greysheet + 10% (which is pretty much retail).
There's probably too much variance to do a reliable experiment, but It would be cool if there was a study using the same coins being auctioned multiple ways. For GC, one round could be 80% start, then maybe 50%, then $1. To make it real interesting, one could then run the same coins through HA and SB and compare all the results.
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From GC Consignment Information:
"Regretfully, we cannot accept consignments where the Minimum Bids are higher than
80% of their listed values on this form. If your Minimum Bids are above the market
price in our opinion, we may return your consignment without listing in auction."
Maybe two VAM guys are playing badminton.