Should PCGS Use a Different Grade for "C" Coins?
DisneyFan
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In checking out the latest Fairmont Auction at StacksBowers I noticed there were 240 gold coins up for auction and only 121 with CACs. Supposedly this hoard is fresh to the market and was recently graded. It's surprising so many of these coins didn't sticker. My guess is they are "C" coins rather than having surface "treatments."
In order to be competitive with CACG, should PCGS begin issuing one grade lower plus grades. For example a "C" grade MS64 would become a MS63+?
Your choice
Should PCGS Use a Different Grade for "C" Coins?
This is a public poll: others will see what you voted for.
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No.
A grade is a range. If you put 10 coins of the same grade side by side, you will be able to rank them from best to worst but they would all be the same grade. Even CAC, as I understand it, says that “C” coins are properly graded just not ranked “A” or “B” for the grade.
That is why I am against this lowering the grade of “C” coins because you are now changing the grading standards. If that is the goal, then congrats, because that is what you are doing. The problem is, you can keep doing this because there will always be coins with the same grade that are better than others of the same grade. That doesn’t mean that we now have another round of lowering grades of the “inferior” coins. In my opinion!
Joe.
I voted no, but ignoring the whole sticker thing, my preference is strict grading to the point where I’d rather pay extra for an undergraded coin than buying a coin for the going rate that has been maxed out grade wise (meaning one that was repeatedly submitted until it received a higher grade). So, indirectly I am almost contradicting my vote. It’s just that I like finding undergraded (or at least not maxed out grade wise) ones myself that haven’t gone through the whole stickering, crack out and resubmitting until you get a higher grade process.
Mr_Spud
Terrible idea.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
There's also a secret "D" category that no one talks about.
Most every collector knows that a specific numerical grade covers a lot of territory and means that all of the same numerical grade are not equal. This is where a collector's grading acumen comes in and why it used to be stressed that learning how to grade is one of the most important skills to learn. Nowadays it is apparently easier to let someone else do that and just pay a fee for the service.
Not my choice but it is an option available to everyone.
A, B and C lingo is assigned to coins that are high end, mid range and low end for a given grade. Below C would represent a coin that is thought to deserve a lower straight grade or a details grade. I haven't heard anyone other than you mention a secret "D" category that no one talks about.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
There will always be a bottom third in a grade range. The grade isn’t wrong just because it didn’t end up stickering.
Coin Photographer.
That’s because it’s a secret!
The grading categories have expanded greatly over the years. With stickering, it’s even more enhanced. I don’t see a need for this & agree with @Catbert - terrible idea!
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
no, a graded ms 65 quarter is still a ms 65, fwiw
See, no one talks about it.
I’m in the no camp too. It is a grade range and you theoretically have coins from .0 to .9 in there (maybe even more decimal places if you really want to go crazy
). So some will be lower end while others will be high end.
We ought to ascribe to the Sheldon scale and everything in between ( what makes men of higher intellect so fickle about intricacies) be based off numbering via decimal points between the grades.
“”A” coin in a ‘66’ holder is 66.7 to .9
“B” coin in same : 66.5
“C” coin = 66.1 to 66.4
Instead: we use more glue , stickers , or build another company and set up shop elsewhere. Cool by me, however the boats float.
show me the coin.
And here we go again...
PCGS already has plus grades. Maybe they need minus grades.
This ABC issue is so incredibly misunderstood that we should stop taking about it.
Every TGP takes a slightly different approach to the business. PCGS should continue to grade to its own standards rather than trying to grade to someone else’s.
I think it's just fine as is.
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Just knowing that the coin didn't receive the CAC is enough proof.
IMO
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
If they did this in the first place, wouldn’t it eliminate the need for CAC altogether??
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Almost makes me want to change my vote to yes.
Hell, no! CAC has it's piece of the pie, but other TPGs don't have to bow down to them!
That's a possibility!
After all, it's a competitive world and PCGS should want to keep up with the competition. Although you still do have the question of whether PCGS would catch the "surface issues" as well.
I don’t think it’s as much a matter of catching the “surface issues” as it is tending to be more forgiving of them.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
C coins are simply the bottom 1/3 of the graded pop of a certain issue. They make the grade but aren’t PQ. In practice (example) a dealer might price the c coins bid plus 10 pct, the B coins bid plus 25 pct and PQ (A) coins bid plus 50 pct.
And if PCGS suddenly adopted CAC standards, does it eliminate the need for CAC or PCGS? PCGS would just be saying that they were wrong all along and CAC/CACG is right.
My vote reminds me of the title from the old Kirk Douglas movie, "Lonely are the Brave." In a way all the "No" votes makes me wonder if the same voters would also prefer no "+" grades and all collectors in their heart of hearts believe their coins are A coins.
This “no” vote likes + grades & also does not think all his coins are “A”. JMO….
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
I understand your preference.
I'm just thinking wouldn't it be better to have two levels of a grade, for example B & A (64 & 64+) instead of three C, B, & A. At this point the PCGS Price Guide only has prices for B & A, not C and the CAC Price Guide only has B with A to be determined.
People have a hard enough time applying the grades we have now. I don’t think adherence and comprehension would expand with more grades to factor. Arguing about the coins that fall on the lines doesn’t get less common with more lines.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Upon what basis did you conclude that “the PCGS Price Guide only has prices for B & A, not C” coins? And that “the CAC Price Guide only has B with A to be determined.”? I haven’t heard or read that either price guide makes those particular distinctions.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
My reading is the PCGS price guide assigns two prices for each grade with the higher price being for a "+", and the CAC price guide only one price with a blank space for a "+."
It would not be unreasonable to believe a C coin should not be valued the same as a B coin..
If you guys keep this up, the secret is going to get out
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The higher PCGS price is for plus graded coins but the price for non-plus coins must include both low end and mid range examples. They can’t simply omit the former.
Ultimately, regardless of price guide values, it’s the marketplace/buyers that determine value.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
At PCGS, the + is a different grade not an "A". if you want to use the ABCs, the "+" price in the guide includes A, B and C level coins.
This is about the nuttiest thread we’ve had on the forum.
Smitten with DBLCs.