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What's The Latest With Hansen's Sets?

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  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,485 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @winesteven said:

    @DocBenjamin said:

    @Coin Finder said:
    I think Hanson is great for the hobby, I hope more like him come into the fold in the future.

    Until every independent shop gets put out of business as Bezos did with Amazon.

    Other than trying to scrape the bottom of the barrel to try to find something to criticize, I don’t see your point at all! Does anyone think that DLRC in practice has hurt any dealer or LCS by selling Hansen’s dupes or buying for him the greatest U.S. coin collection EVER?

    Steve

    Steve, you didn’t ask me that question, but I’ll answer anyway. It’s conceivable that an extremely small number of independent shops have been negatively affected. So what of that’s more than a far cry from “every one of them”. 😉

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • JCH22JCH22 Posts: 170 ✭✭✭
    edited August 13, 2024 1:05PM

    .

  • winestevenwinesteven Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 10, 2024 2:21PM
    1. His purchases create demand - a rising tide lifts all boats.
    2. I don’t see any downside to dealers at all, but just the opposite - another “whale” in the ultra high end market! Collectors - I don’t see downside.
    3. Yes, solely for that purpose.
    4. He’s not divesting NOW, and he’s stated that when he’s done, his coins will go to his charitable foundation, with donations from that to other charities. See today’s article in Greysheet.

    Steve

    A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!

    My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,485 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JCH22 said:

    @MFeld said:

    @winesteven said:

    @DocBenjamin said:

    @Coin Finder said:
    I think Hanson is great for the hobby, I hope more like him come into the fold in the future.

    Until every independent shop gets put out of business as Bezos did with Amazon.

    Other than trying to scrape the bottom of the barrel to try to find something to criticize, I don’t see your point at all! Does anyone think that DLRC in practice has hurt any dealer or LCS by selling Hansen’s dupes or buying for him the greatest U.S. coin collection EVER?

    Steve

    Steve, you didn’t ask me that question, but I’ll answer anyway. It’s conceivable that an extremely small number of independent shops have been negatively affected. So what of that’s more than a far cry from “every one of them”. 😉

    You have re framed the comment's "until" from its future, to the past/present tense.

    Mr.Hansen has already been very active for a considerable amount of time. That should give some clue as to whether he’s going to put “every one of them out of business”. How do you feel about the reasonableness of the comment that Steve and I took issue with? Did it sound realistic to you?

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • winestevenwinesteven Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 10, 2024 11:10AM

    @MFeld said:

    @winesteven said:

    @DocBenjamin said:

    @Coin Finder said:
    I think Hanson is great for the hobby, I hope more like him come into the fold in the future.

    Until every independent shop gets put out of business as Bezos did with Amazon.

    Other than trying to scrape the bottom of the barrel to try to find something to criticize, I don’t see your point at all! Does anyone think that DLRC in practice has hurt any dealer or LCS by selling Hansen’s dupes or buying for him the greatest U.S. coin collection EVER?

    Steve

    Steve, you didn’t ask me that question, but I’ll answer anyway. It’s conceivable that an extremely small number of independent shops have been negatively affected. So what of that’s more than a far cry from “every one of them”. 😉

    But not only could that be said about GC with its growth, but the negative impact on a few independent shops from GC is heads and shoulders above that of Hansen.😉

    A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!

    My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
  • winestevenwinesteven Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 10, 2024 11:15AM

    I’m not criticizing GC at all, as I love Ian and Raeleen and their business model. I was just pointing out an example to show how that initial comment was scraping the bottom of the barrel for the only purpose of finding something to try to criticize Hansen. Obviously, that attempt to criticize Hansen failed.

    Steve

    A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!

    My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
  • wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,911 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 10, 2024 11:32AM

    'Sunlight is the Best Disinfectant'

    Just an observation of mine. For complete transparency, wouldn’t it make sense for Mr. Hansen to clearly state his precise ownership interest in CACG? Perhaps he has and I missed it?

    There is a major owner of CACG that routinely asks me (in total good faith) to submit coins to CAC/CACG. A year ago (give or take) he told me that he was already (or was going to be) an “x%” owner of CACG and wanted me to know that (he told me the exact %). My immediate reaction - that’s a man of great integrity. Without disclosing that information, one might suggest he had a potential conflict of interest or even the “appearance” of a potential conflict of interest in asking me to spend significant money with CAC/CACG. He chose “sunlight as the best disinfectant”.

    Just my 2 cents.

    Wondercoin.

    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
  • orevilleoreville Posts: 11,970 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What does all these posts have to do with the “latest of Hansens sets?”

    A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!
  • FrankHFrankH Posts: 945 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @winesteven said:

    @FrankH said:
    It's good to know that there's an "ovehang" so large that it could "flood the market." :s

    There’s a LOT I don’t know, so I’ll bite - what the heck is an ovehang, and please clarify your point, so it makes some sense to me, as well as others. Thanks.

    Steve

    "Overhang"

    Thanks. Edited to correct.

  • JCH22JCH22 Posts: 170 ✭✭✭
    edited August 13, 2024 1:06PM

    .

  • coinhackcoinhack Posts: 1,156 ✭✭✭✭

    @winesteven said:
    Perhaps I’m one of only a few, but I see D. L. Hansen as a positive asset to our hobby.

    Steve

    @lermish said: ...is it totally impossible that he (Dell Loy Hansen) is telling the truth and going through this whole process
    for the exact reasons he stated? And, if so, why would he share any of his personal business deals? It's none of our >business.
    DLH sounds like @winesteven in all the best ways!!!

    I don't know much about Mr. Hansen but I do remember when he was pushed out of Major League Soccer and forced to sell his team for ethical reasons. Sexual misconduct, racism, misogyny, toxic work place.

    I tried to remember what it was about, so I went to Google and searched for "Del Loy Hansen scandal"

    Try that. This is what I found from that search:

    ESPN - Sources: Staffers describe Real Salt Lake's toxic, sexist company culture
    KJZZ - Allegations of sexual misconduct surface against former owner (Del Loy Hansen), coach of Utah Royals
    Sports Illustrated - Allegations Show Real Salt Lake Owner Has a History of Racist Comments
    Yahoo Sorts - MLS says Dell Loy Hansen, the Real Salt Lake owner accused of racist behavior, will sell the team

    There are pages more: Fox News, Bleacher Report, New York Post, The Guardian, etc.

    So, is he a good man? He probably is but he is not a hero to me and I would not want to be his business partner.

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,485 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JCH22 said:

    @MFeld said:

    Mr.Hansen has already been very active for a considerable amount of time. That should give some clue as to whether he’s going to put “every one of them out of business”. How do you feel about the reasonableness of the comment that Steve and I took issue with? Did it sound realistic to you?

    Mark: distinction is that we have seen the effects only on the buy side. If that article is accurate, sell side effect of 3000 coins is soon to be seen. Rising tide may raise all boats, but the tide inevitability recedes.

    As it is relatively new, CAC's full effects are yet to be felt.

    The language used in the press release about the mass crossing is peculiarly "artful"....

    We haven’t only seen the effects on the buy side. Many Hansen coins have been available on the market and sold.

    If you already answered my questions and I missed it, I apologize. But if not,
    how do you feel about the reasonableness of the comment from @DocBenjamin (copied below) that Steve and I took issue with? Did it sound realistic to you?

    “Until every independent shop gets put out of business as Bezos did with Amazon.”

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,911 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 10, 2024 2:52PM

    ‘’What does all these posts have to do with the “latest of Hansens sets?”

    Oreville (my friend) - I personally could care less about Hansen’s sets. Now that they are all moved, or about to be moved from PCGS, I hope I never have to read about them again here on PCGS’ corporate message boards. But, if I do read items suggestive of PCGS not being the top grading service in the world, I’m free to comment about it - yes? After all, these are PCGS’ corporate boards. This is where I’ve come to relax and participate. I am not at the CACG or NGC message boards. I’ll post anything I want to post to remind the readers here that PCGS has the best product in the marketplace. It’s my absolute privilege to do so-yes? Go take the talk about the latest on Hansen’s sets where the talk deserves to be - the place he moved his sets to. Just don’t forget to make sure any moved coins into CACG holders get immediately removed from the PCGS Registry sets. Thank you.

    Wondercoin.

    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
  • DocBenjaminDocBenjamin Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @JCH22 said:

    @MFeld said:

    Mr.Hansen has already been very active for a considerable amount of time. That should give some clue as to whether he’s going to put “every one of them out of business”. How do you feel about the reasonableness of the comment that Steve and I took issue with? Did it sound realistic to you?

    Mark: distinction is that we have seen the effects only on the buy side. If that article is accurate, sell side effect of 3000 coins is soon to be seen. Rising tide may raise all boats, but the tide inevitability recedes.

    As it is relatively new, CAC's full effects are yet to be felt.

    The language used in the press release about the mass crossing is peculiarly "artful"....

    We haven’t only seen the effects on the buy side. Many Hansen coins have been available on the market and sold.

    If you already answered my questions and I missed it, I apologize. But if not,
    how do you feel about the reasonableness of the comment from @DocBenjamin (copied below) that Steve and I took issue with? Did it sound realistic to you?

    “Until every independent shop gets put out of business as Bezos did with Amazon.”

    Mark, do you not believe that the enormous footprint of your employer has significantly disrupted the coin market? As many independent dealers began to be enticed to join Heritage en masse 2 decades ago, auction fees surged from 15% to 17.5% to 20% even as the expense of printing and mailing obsolete auction catalogs dropped to near nil.

    Coin business features often expensive examples, but as you know, the industry is tiny. Handful of deep pocketed opportunists can turn the market to dust in a flash,

  • SanctionIISanctionII Posts: 12,117 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This thread has been very interesting to follow.

    Reading it leads me to comment a second time (my first was posted on 8-7-2024 at 10:59 a.m.) and ask three questions.

    Coin grading has been and is a matter of subjective opinion. It likely will remain that way into the future (until such time as someone [human or AI] creates a method that technically grades coins according to a set of objective standards that everyone in the hobby accepts).

    Since TPG's were created decades ago there have been many that entered the market place and offered their services to the hobby. Some have disappeared (i.e. Accugrade) and some have longevity (our host and NGC). Some have had no credibility (their assigned grades were/are laughable). Some have much credibility (their assigned grades were/are considered accurate).

    Gradeflation (the coin graded VF25 in 1990 by TPG X and regrades as an EF40 in 2022 by TPG X) is something that is present (this position can be supported by credible evidence).

    The explanations as to why Gradeflation is present range from cynical (awarding higher grades promotes/insures future submissions of coins for grading or regrading; thus insuring the revenue stream required by the TPG's operations/existence will be present) to plausible (the knowledge base related to coins and their grading has increased, matured, evolved and with it opinions regarding a coin's grade can, does and should change; ergo the hobby/market expects/demands changing a coin's grade to reflect what knowledge, wisdom and experience dictate it should be today).

    This thread mentions ..........the most strict and consistent grading company............; mentions that ........... In 2022, Albanese organized over 150 leading members of the numismatic community to expand their mission for accuracy and consistency by creating a new third-party grading and encapsulation service that was launched in 2023, CAC Grading............; and mentions that Mr. Hansen was motivated .............. to partner with CAC Grading in an effort to combat gradeflation....................

    My understanding is that CAC Grading may become (or already is) the most strict and consistent grading company. If it will be or is, so be it (and good luck to it moving forward). With CAC Grading launching, a trend to prevent Gradeflation may be underway. Whether that is a good thing or a bad thing for the hobby is an open question.

    With all of the above comments in mind, my questions are:

    Question #1 - Will preventing Gradeflation (aka Gradeinflation) lead to a new phenomena, namely Gradedeflation (a mindset where all coins not graded by CAC Grading are viewed as overgraded, thus illegitimate and of fire sale value only)?

    Question #2 - What will prevent yet another coin grading company from arising (say in in 2029) that successfully convinces the hobby that CAC Grading is too lenient and that only it can can grade a coin accurately (i.e. a PCGS coin graded PR67, that was downgraded by CAC Grading to a PF65 is really a PF63 according to the true and correct grading standards of this newest coin grading company)?

    Question #3 - What will prevent yet another coin grading company from arising (say in in 2029) that successfully convinces the hobby that CAC Grading is too strict and that only it can can grade a coin accurately (i.e. a PCGS coin graded PR67, that was downgraded by CAC Grading to a PF65 is really a PF68 according to the true and correct grading standards of this newest coin grading company)?

    The topic of the subjective nature of coin grading is fascinating, as reading this thread demonstrates.

    That topic is fascinating because humans are involved in the hobby; and humans are definitely fascinating.

    For me, I like learning about, acquiring, holding, viewing and showing pretty, round, pieces of metal.

    Like this one (MS64 and a top pop):

  • DocBenjaminDocBenjamin Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @winesteven said:

    @DocBenjamin said:

    @Coin Finder said:
    I think Hanson is great for the hobby, I hope more like him come into the fold in the future.

    Until every independent shop gets put out of business as Bezos did with Amazon.

    Other than trying to scrape the bottom of the barrel to try to find something to criticize, I don’t see your point at all! Does anyone think that DLRC in practice has hurt any dealer or LCS by selling Hansen’s dupes or buying for him the greatest U.S. coin collection EVER?

    Steve

    Steve, you didn’t ask me that question, but I’ll answer anyway. It’s conceivable that an extremely small number of independent shops have been negatively affected. So what of that’s more than a far cry from “every one of them”. 😉

    Despite a balky internet connection, I will try to catch up here.

    Simpson seemed to be a benevolent contributor to the hobby, where the jury is out on Hansen. Wearing the hat of collector, dealer and grader is less than ideal, Even David Hall stumbled a bit.

    Regarding the Hansen effect on the indy dealers, that was not the question as much as the "more of them coming into the fold" that whinesteven offered.

    Using the Bezos model, and let me expand a bit. AMZN was essentially a money loser for 20 years. Free shipping on $25, discounted gift cards, free returns. All that shoved a ton of retail B&M's to the street. Jeff didn't invent that approach, he mastered it.

    If one of the 4000 US billionaires steps in and offers Ian a can't refuse trailer load of money for Great Collections, cuts fees to near zero to grab business from the other players, then you have chaos. Wonderful fun for the consignors for a while, but then with diminished competition, fees continue to soar.

    Setting tax concerns aside. it was possible to "flip a thousand dollar coin on Ebay a dozen years ago for about 5% including the 2.2% Paypal fee. Make it 6% with shipping.

    Even with the wonderful promise of the net, it now costs 15% to do the same thing in 2024. Less for the guy with the Ebay store, maybe 11% amortizing the store fee, but yeah, the consumer/collector is taking it in the tuchas.

  • Manifest_DestinyManifest_Destiny Posts: 6,896 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Funny. I started the thread on Aug, 6th. This came out Aug 8th.

  • JCH22JCH22 Posts: 170 ✭✭✭
    edited August 13, 2024 1:06PM

    .

  • willywilly Posts: 323 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JCH22 speaking of DL Hansens transparency who are you???? We need this info so we can better understand where your points of view and concerns are coming from.

  • JCH22JCH22 Posts: 170 ✭✭✭
    edited August 13, 2024 1:05PM

    .

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 34,213 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 12, 2024 10:02AM

    @DocBenjamin said:

    @MFeld said:

    @winesteven said:

    @DocBenjamin said:

    @Coin Finder said:
    I think Hanson is great for the hobby, I hope more like him come into the fold in the future.

    Until every independent shop gets put out of business as Bezos did with Amazon.

    Other than trying to scrape the bottom of the barrel to try to find something to criticize, I don’t see your point at all! Does anyone think that DLRC in practice has hurt any dealer or LCS by selling Hansen’s dupes or buying for him the greatest U.S. coin collection EVER?

    Steve

    Steve, you didn’t ask me that question, but I’ll answer anyway. It’s conceivable that an extremely small number of independent shops have been negatively affected. So what of that’s more than a far cry from “every one of them”. 😉

    Despite a balky internet connection, I will try to catch up here.

    Simpson seemed to be a benevolent contributor to the hobby, where the jury is out on Hansen. Wearing the hat of collector, dealer and grader is less than ideal, Even David Hall stumbled a bit.

    Regarding the Hansen effect on the indy dealers, that was not the question as much as the "more of them coming into the fold" that whinesteven offered.

    Using the Bezos model, and let me expand a bit. AMZN was essentially a money loser for 20 years. Free shipping on $25, discounted gift cards, free returns. All that shoved a ton of retail B&M's to the street. Jeff didn't invent that approach, he mastered it.

    If one of the 4000 US billionaires steps in and offers Ian a can't refuse trailer load of money for Great Collections, cuts fees to near zero to grab business from the other players, then you have chaos. Wonderful fun for the consignors for a while, but then with diminished competition, fees continue to soar.

    Setting tax concerns aside. it was possible to "flip a thousand dollar coin on Ebay a dozen years ago for about 5% including the 2.2% Paypal fee. Make it 6% with shipping.

    Even with the wonderful promise of the net, it now costs 15% to do the same thing in 2024. Less for the guy with the Ebay store, maybe 11% amortizing the store fee, but yeah, the consumer/collector is taking it in the tuchas.

    Actually more like 8% with a store and TRS. Less for more expensive coins. You can sell a 20,000 comic on ebay for less than it costs to just accept PayPal (3.45% vs 3.49%).

    You're also comparing apples to oranges with ebay. The pricing is not predatory. The number of guarantees and benefits ebay offers today did not exist in 2000. The fee increases in large part reflect a different product that is more convenient and safer for both buyers and sellers.

    Amazon may have squeezed out small BMs, but that is constructive destruction. "Free shipping", "free returns" and the breadth of offerings even at giants like Walmart and Best Buy did not exist pre-Amazon.

    That is not to say that all market dominance is either good or benign. That is also not to say that there aren't negatives with the positives.

    And Hansen’s share of the coin market is minuscule. Comparing him to Amazon or eBay isn't remotely accurate. He represents maybe 1% of the retail coin market. He's a higher percentage of the high end market, but even there he probably doesn't get over 10% even in an active year. His entire collection does not equal the total value of the Fairmont hoard. And Heritage probably buys and sells more coins in a year than Hansen did in his entire life.

  • NapNap Posts: 1,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DocBenjamin said:

    @Crepidodera said:
    Combatting grade inflation is admirable, but I wonder how DLH will feel about the numerous coins in his collection that will fail to cross into CACG holders at any grade.

    Coins are stupid, they will willingly occupy any holder and grade chosen.

    I think coins are the smart ones, they are perfectly comfortable with what they are, they are nonjudgmental, and have no interest in our silly rating game.

  • tcollectstcollects Posts: 1,055 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JCH22 said:

    Even retrospectively, have you considered what effect Hansen’s accumulation strategy may have contributed to the increase in overall pricing. That may have benefited sellers who took advantage of pricing on the upside. Not so much collectors/sellers if there is a downturn. Bubbles are not historically uncommon in dominated markets. Those are not good.

    Was it an "accumulation strategy" or just the result of upgrading fast? Or both? I don't get it though. Why would they buy lower grades than in the collection already?

  • CatbertCatbert Posts: 7,152 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @tcollects said:

    @JCH22 said:

    Even retrospectively, have you considered what effect Hansen’s accumulation strategy may have contributed to the increase in overall pricing. That may have benefited sellers who took advantage of pricing on the upside. Not so much collectors/sellers if there is a downturn. Bubbles are not historically uncommon in dominated markets. Those are not good.

    Was it an "accumulation strategy" or just the result of upgrading fast? Or both? I don't get it though. Why would they buy lower grades than in the collection already?

    He paid tuition like we all have done, just at a lot higher level!

    Seated Half Society member #38
    "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
  • SanctionIISanctionII Posts: 12,117 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Still waiting to receive answers to my three previously posed questions. :)

  • TypekatTypekat Posts: 378 ✭✭✭✭

    @SanctionII

    Sorry for the delay, it’s tough to keep track in this snakepit of hypotheticals.
    My rhetorical answers:

    1. Probably not…
    2. Nothing
    3. Nothing

    30+ years coin shop experience (ret.) Coins, bullion, currency, scrap & interesting folks. Loved every minute!

  • JCH22JCH22 Posts: 170 ✭✭✭
    edited August 13, 2024 1:07PM

    .

  • PumpkinheadPumpkinhead Posts: 48 ✭✭✭

    Hey, better to be a big fish in a puddle than a medium-size fish in a vast ocean… It certainly gets the rest of us engaged 😊. I’m with Deplorable Dan on this one… Just enjoy your coins!

  • winestevenwinesteven Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Pumpkinhead said:
    Hey, better to be a big fish in a puddle than a medium-size fish in a vast ocean… It certainly gets the rest of us engaged 😊. I’m with Deplorable Dan on this one… Just enjoy your coins!

    I fully agree with you and DD, but it IS ok for us small and medium fish for us to enjoy our coins!

    Steve

    A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!

    My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
  • DocBenjaminDocBenjamin Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @winesteven said:

    @Pumpkinhead said:
    Hey, better to be a big fish in a puddle than a medium-size fish in a vast ocean… It certainly gets the rest of us engaged 😊. I’m with Deplorable Dan on this one… Just enjoy your coins!

    I fully agree with you and DD, but it IS ok for us small and medium fish for us to enjoy our coins!

    Steve

    And the small and medium fish always end up on the dinner table.

    Your blind promotion of Mr. Hansen is admirable as you seem to have a connection. That does not advance though, the common interests of the hobby.

  • winestevenwinesteven Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 12, 2024 1:45PM

    @DocBenjamin said:

    @winesteven said:

    @Pumpkinhead said:
    Hey, better to be a big fish in a puddle than a medium-size fish in a vast ocean… It certainly gets the rest of us engaged 😊. I’m with Deplorable Dan on this one… Just enjoy your coins!

    I fully agree with you and DD, but it IS ok for us small and medium fish for us to enjoy our coins!

    Steve

    And the small and medium fish always end up on the dinner table.

    Your blind promotion of Mr. Hansen is admirable as you seem to have a connection. That does not advance though, the common interests of the hobby.

    Gee, that’s a horrible way to think of 95% or more of us in relation to our hobby. I can’t speak for you, but as a “medium fish”, I derive TREMENDOUS pleasure from so many aspects of our hobby. Too bad you don’t. When I say us small and medium fish can enjoy our hobby, please don’t imply we shouldn’t, indicating we’re going to end up on the dinner table.

    I don’t blindly promote D.L. Hansen, but have formed my opinions based on what I have seen, read, and heard. Obviously, we disagree.

    Steve

    A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!

    My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
  • DocBenjaminDocBenjamin Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @winesteven said:

    @DocBenjamin said:

    @winesteven said:

    @Pumpkinhead said:
    Hey, better to be a big fish in a puddle than a medium-size fish in a vast ocean… It certainly gets the rest of us engaged 😊. I’m with Deplorable Dan on this one… Just enjoy your coins!

    I fully agree with you and DD, but it IS ok for us small and medium fish for us to enjoy our coins!

    Steve

    And the small and medium fish always end up on the dinner table.

    Your blind promotion of Mr. Hansen is admirable as you seem to have a connection. That does not advance though, the common interests of the hobby.

    Gee, that’s a horrible way to think of 95% or more of us in relation to our hobby. I can’t speak for you, but as a “medium fish”, I derive TREMENDOUS pleasure from so many aspects of our hobby. Too bad you don’t. When I say us small and medium fish can enjoy our hobby, please don’t imply we shouldn’t, indicating we’re going to end up on the dinner table.

    I don’t blindly promote D.L. Hansen, but have formed my opinions based on what I have seen, read, and heard. Obviously, we disagree.

    Steve

    Sorry about my cynicism. I was only a year or two into numismatics in 2003. Bought a 40/0 pop Washington on Ebay. Date was a 1940.

    Paid about $675 and seeing a rising market several months later, sold it on the same site for about $850.

    Buyer was a known dealer that also maintained a well regarded online price guide. It was listed at $750 at the time of sale. Shipped the coin, Day after it was received, the online price jumped to $1500.

    Problems when folks in a small category wear too many hats.

  • winestevenwinesteven Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DocBenjamin said:

    @winesteven said:

    @DocBenjamin said:

    @winesteven said:

    @Pumpkinhead said:
    Hey, better to be a big fish in a puddle than a medium-size fish in a vast ocean… It certainly gets the rest of us engaged 😊. I’m with Deplorable Dan on this one… Just enjoy your coins!

    I fully agree with you and DD, but it IS ok for us small and medium fish for us to enjoy our coins!

    Steve

    And the small and medium fish always end up on the dinner table.

    Your blind promotion of Mr. Hansen is admirable as you seem to have a connection. That does not advance though, the common interests of the hobby.

    Gee, that’s a horrible way to think of 95% or more of us in relation to our hobby. I can’t speak for you, but as a “medium fish”, I derive TREMENDOUS pleasure from so many aspects of our hobby. Too bad you don’t. When I say us small and medium fish can enjoy our hobby, please don’t imply we shouldn’t, indicating we’re going to end up on the dinner table.

    I don’t blindly promote D.L. Hansen, but have formed my opinions based on what I have seen, read, and heard. Obviously, we disagree.

    Steve

    Sorry about my cynicism. I was only a year or two into numismatics in 2003. Bought a 40/0 pop Washington on Ebay. Date was a 1940.

    Paid about $675 and seeing a rising market several months later, sold it on the same site for about $850.

    Buyer was a known dealer that also maintained a well regarded online price guide. It was listed at $750 at the time of sale. Shipped the coin, Day after it was received, the online price jumped to $1500.

    Problems when folks in a small category wear too many hats.

    That’s another difference between you and me. I’ve learned to not look back to second guess (shoulda, woulda, coulda), as that’s easy. Instead, I choose to look back to learn, so mistakes can be minimized going forward. There’s a difference!

    Steve

    A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!

    My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
  • DisneyFanDisneyFan Posts: 2,064 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DocBenjamin said:

    Sorry about my cynicism. I was only a year or two into numismatics in 2003. Bought a 40/0 pop Washington on Ebay. Date was a 1940.

    Paid about $675 and seeing a rising market several months later, sold it on the same site for about $850.

    Buyer was a known dealer that also maintained a well regarded online price guide. It was listed at $750 at the time of sale. Shipped the coin, Day after it was received, the online price jumped to $1500.

    You made a little over 25% on your money in short time. That's like complaining a stock went up after you sold it.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 34,213 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DocBenjamin said:

    @winesteven said:

    @Pumpkinhead said:
    Hey, better to be a big fish in a puddle than a medium-size fish in a vast ocean… It certainly gets the rest of us engaged 😊. I’m with Deplorable Dan on this one… Just enjoy your coins!

    I fully agree with you and DD, but it IS ok for us small and medium fish for us to enjoy our coins!

    Steve

    And the small and medium fish always end up on the dinner table.

    Your blind promotion of Mr. Hansen is admirable as you seem to have a connection. That does not advance though, the common interests of the hobby.

    Actually, the little fish are the ones that get thrown back.

    And no one has definitively proven that Mr. Hansen has not advanced the hobby.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 34,213 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DocBenjamin said:

    @winesteven said:

    @DocBenjamin said:

    @winesteven said:

    @Pumpkinhead said:
    Hey, better to be a big fish in a puddle than a medium-size fish in a vast ocean… It certainly gets the rest of us engaged 😊. I’m with Deplorable Dan on this one… Just enjoy your coins!

    I fully agree with you and DD, but it IS ok for us small and medium fish for us to enjoy our coins!

    Steve

    And the small and medium fish always end up on the dinner table.

    Your blind promotion of Mr. Hansen is admirable as you seem to have a connection. That does not advance though, the common interests of the hobby.

    Gee, that’s a horrible way to think of 95% or more of us in relation to our hobby. I can’t speak for you, but as a “medium fish”, I derive TREMENDOUS pleasure from so many aspects of our hobby. Too bad you don’t. When I say us small and medium fish can enjoy our hobby, please don’t imply we shouldn’t, indicating we’re going to end up on the dinner table.

    I don’t blindly promote D.L. Hansen, but have formed my opinions based on what I have seen, read, and heard. Obviously, we disagree.

    Steve

    Sorry about my cynicism. I was only a year or two into numismatics in 2003. Bought a 40/0 pop Washington on Ebay. Date was a 1940.

    Paid about $675 and seeing a rising market several months later, sold it on the same site for about $850.

    Buyer was a known dealer that also maintained a well regarded online price guide. It was listed at $750 at the time of sale. Shipped the coin, Day after it was received, the online price jumped to $1500.

    Problems when folks in a small category wear too many hats.

    Respectfully, that has nothing to do with Hansen. And that is as much about you making a novice mistake than anything nefarious. There are numerous price guides and research resources available.

  • coinbufcoinbuf Posts: 11,298 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @DocBenjamin said:

    @winesteven said:

    @Pumpkinhead said:
    Hey, better to be a big fish in a puddle than a medium-size fish in a vast ocean… It certainly gets the rest of us engaged 😊. I’m with Deplorable Dan on this one… Just enjoy your coins!

    I fully agree with you and DD, but it IS ok for us small and medium fish for us to enjoy our coins!

    Steve

    And the small and medium fish always end up on the dinner table.

    Your blind promotion of Mr. Hansen is admirable as you seem to have a connection. That does not advance though, the common interests of the hobby.

    Actually, the little fish are the ones that get thrown back.

    And no one has definitively proven that Mr. Hansen has not advanced the hobby.

    Has anyone definitively proven that he has?

    My Lincoln Registry
    My Collection of Old Holders

    Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
  • Manifest_DestinyManifest_Destiny Posts: 6,896 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JCH22 said:

    @Catbert said:

    @tcollects said:

    @JCH22 said:

    Even retrospectively, have you considered what effect Hansen’s accumulation strategy may have contributed to the increase in overall pricing. That may have benefited sellers who took advantage of pricing on the upside. Not so much collectors/sellers if there is a downturn. Bubbles are not historically uncommon in dominated markets. Those are not good.

    Was it an "accumulation strategy" or just the result of upgrading fast? Or both? I don't get it though. Why would they buy lower grades than in the collection already?

    He paid tuition like we all have done, just at a lot higher level!

    Costly tuition (naiveite) argument necessarily assumes either he: 1) was getting bad advice, or, 2) ignored good advice--from his highest caliber, extremely knowledgeable, representative (and business partner). I doubt the first, and the second I think could be described as well informed risk taking.

    When the smoke clears, between his ownership of DLRC and CACG, I don't think Hansen will be paying any tuition. He didn't get where he's at losing money.

  • JCH22JCH22 Posts: 170 ✭✭✭
    edited August 13, 2024 1:07PM

    .

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,485 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @winesteven said:

    @DocBenjamin said:

    @winesteven said:

    @DocBenjamin said:

    @winesteven said:

    @Pumpkinhead said:
    Hey, better to be a big fish in a puddle than a medium-size fish in a vast ocean… It certain> @jmlanzaf said:

    @DocBenjamin said:

    @winesteven said:

    @DocBenjamin said:

    @winesteven said:

    @Pumpkinhead said:
    Hey, better to be a big fish in a puddle than a medium-size fish in a vast ocean… It certainly gets the rest of us engaged 😊. I’m with Deplorable Dan on this one… Just enjoy your coins!

    I fully agree with you and DD, but it IS ok for us small and medium fish for us to enjoy our coins!

    Steve

    And the small and medium fish always end up on the dinner table.

    Your blind promotion of Mr. Hansen is admirable as you seem to have a connection. That does not advance though, the common interests of the hobby.

    Gee, that’s a horrible way to think of 95% or more of us in relation to our hobby. I can’t speak for you, but as a “medium fish”, I derive TREMENDOUS pleasure from so many aspects of our hobby. Too bad you don’t. When I say us small and medium fish can enjoy our hobby, please don’t imply we shouldn’t, indicating we’re going to end up on the dinner table.

    I don’t blindly promote D.L. Hansen, but have formed my opinions based on what I have seen, read, and heard. Obviously, we disagree.

    Steve

    Sorry about my cynicism. I was only a year or two into numismatics in 2003. Bought a 40/0 pop Washington on Ebay. Date was a 1940.

    Paid about $675 and seeing a rising market several months later, sold it on the same site for about $850.

    Buyer was a known dealer that also maintained a well regarded online price guide. It was listed at $750 at the time of sale. Shipped the coin, Day after it was received, the online price jumped to $1500.

    Problems when folks in a small category wear too many hats.

    Respectfully, that has nothing to do with Hansen. And that is as much about you making a novice mistake than anything nefarious. There are numerous price guides and research resources available.

    I don’t even see where a mistake was necessarily made. Just because the dealer who bought the coin raised the price guide price significantly just after the purchase, doesn’t mean the seller failed to obtain a fair price. But even if there was a mistake, it has nothing to do with Mr. Hansen’s buying and selling.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 34,213 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @coinbuf said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @DocBenjamin said:

    @winesteven said:

    @Pumpkinhead said:
    Hey, better to be a big fish in a puddle than a medium-size fish in a vast ocean… It certainly gets the rest of us engaged 😊. I’m with Deplorable Dan on this one… Just enjoy your coins!

    I fully agree with you and DD, but it IS ok for us small and medium fish for us to enjoy our coins!

    Steve

    And the small and medium fish always end up on the dinner table.

    Your blind promotion of Mr. Hansen is admirable as you seem to have a connection. That does not advance though, the common interests of the hobby.

    Actually, the little fish are the ones that get thrown back.

    And no one has definitively proven that Mr. Hansen has not advanced the hobby.

    Has anyone definitively proven that he has?

    No. But that's rather besides the point.

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,485 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 12, 2024 5:56PM

    @coinbuf said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @DocBenjamin said:

    @winesteven said:

    @Pumpkinhead said:
    Hey, better to be a big fish in a puddle than a medium-size fish in a vast ocean… It certainly gets the rest of us engaged 😊. I’m with Deplorable Dan on this one… Just enjoy your coins!

    I fully agree with you and DD, but it IS ok for us small and medium fish for us to enjoy our coins!

    Steve

    And the small and medium fish always end up on the dinner table.

    Your blind promotion of Mr. Hansen is admirable as you seem to have a connection. That does not advance though, the common interests of the hobby.

    Actually, the little fish are the ones that get thrown back.

    And no one has definitively proven that Mr. Hansen has not advanced the hobby.

    Has anyone definitively proven that he has?

    Aa you already know, no one has proved that he has or hasn’t advanced the hobby. Edited, due to learning I’d misread a post.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

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