Shopping for a Morgan Proof questions.

Morgan13

I've got a budget of 5k. I don't want to get buried. Recently there was a thread about a $5k budget, coincidentally that's my budget.
A few questions please.
What can I expect to buy for
that kind of money meaning grade and year.
I really want a white proof not one covered with toning unless there is good reason to buy one toned for originality reasons.
Should I save more or possibly pay less?
I don't want to get buried because I didn't educate myself enough.
So I am asking for help and guidance.
This forum has helped me out plenty of times and I appreciate it.
If you have one please post an image!
I'd like to be inspired.

lermish

I've owned a number of contemporary proofs but not specifically a Morgan. But, I think similar guidelines would apply.

I like cameos and would try to stretch to buy a cameo coin.

Don't be seduced by the mirrors on a high end 62/low end 63; you'll notice the hairlines and they will (probably) bother you down the road.

Good luck, keep us posted!

MFeld

If you don’t already have a good idea of what you can get for $5000, I suggest you look at dozens, if not hundreds of on-line listings and auction results, including images.

Don’t focus on a particular date or dates, as that would limit your options, unnecessarily.

Be thinking about whether you’d like a lower grade Cameo example vs. a higher grade non-Cameo.

Don’t be in a hurry. There are more than enough out there. The key is finding a nice one that you like at a reasonable price. Enjoy the search.

Catbert

@Morgan13 said:
I've got a budget of 5k. I don't want to get buried. Recently there was a thread about a $5k budget, coincidentally that's my budget.
A few questions please.
What can I expect to buy for
that kind of money meaning grade and year.
I really want a white proof not one covered with toning unless there is good reason to buy one toned for originality reasons.
Should I save more or possibly pay less?
I don't want to get buried because I didn't educate myself enough.
So I am asking for help and guidance.
This forum has helped me out plenty of times and I appreciate it.
If you have one please post an image!
I'd like to be inspired.

Great advice from Mr. Feld. I'd also add that I'd take advantage of in-person auction lot viewing at a major show to learn your likes as well as for education.

Consulting the CPG CAC values, a generic PR64 date w/CAC is valued at 5.4K, PR65 CAC at 6.9K, PR66 CAC at 9.4K. If it were my money and the date didn't matter, I'd prefer a CAC verified example.

You'll want to discover your comfort level with the amount of hairlines seen between these grade levels. Pictures will often hide these so in-hand viewing is vital.

TomB

I'd like to echo the excellent advice given above and add something that was touched upon, but perhaps not hammered upon. That is, while images are great and can allow someone to look at scores of coins in a short period of time, they are by no means a true indicator of quality for large, nineteenth century proof coinage. You have to look at these coins in-hand and rotate them under a light and look at not only what you like about each coin, but just as importantly what you don't like, as well. These pieces in-hand give so much more information and you will need that when you buy.

Good luck!

MFeld

@TomB said:
I'd like to echo the excellent advice given above and add something that was touched upon, but perhaps not hammered upon. That is, while images are great and can allow someone to look at scores of coins in a short period of time, they are by no means a true indicator of quality for large, nineteenth century proof coinage. You have to look at these coins in-hand and rotate them under a light and look at not only what you like about each coin, but just as importantly what you don't like, as well. These pieces in-hand give so much more information and you will need that when you buy.

Good luck!

And the points made by @Catbert and @TomB are well worth hammering upon! There’s no substitution for in-hand viewing of coins. And better yet, is if you’re able to do so with a highly knowledgeable collector or dealer who’s willing to help you learn.

jesbroken

As far as Ebay is concerned, do as Mark recommended, with one concern, disregard the coins for sale, only be concerned with the sold auctions. Same with any avenue you turn down. Historical information and notice the date sold, if 2014 do not take it literally stay as recent as possible. If you do not go to coin shows, get someone here that is going to view some for you and perhaps get photos and the sellers info. Or if someone you know and trust allow them to make an offer for you. #1 mistake most people make when purchasing a coin area not familiar with is being in a HURRY. Take your time, more likely to fail at your objective than lose the #1 coin of all time. Just an opinion, I wish you the best of luck. If you stay near the PR64 area you should be able to succeed. For a nice coin in PR65 you may have to go a little higher.
Jim

BillJones

You can look at this one and decide what you think. The grade is NGC PR-64. I think it has enough contrast to great a Cameo, but NGC didn't give it one.

I bought this piece in 2008, just before the price fell. I'm still underwater, but I don't care. I like it. I paid a bit less than you budget.

Here's a Trade Dollar I bought much more recently, also for less than your budget. You might like this look more. The pricing for the Morgan and Trade Dollar Proofs are similar.

This is my picture

This is the "somewhat improved" auction house picture of the same coin.

You can buy a bright white example of either of these coins, but I will guarantee you that it has been dipped.

ifthevamzarockin

I would only buy with in hand inspection.

oldslab

I would look Great Collections....they have Proof Morgans currently bidding from $350.00 to $350,000.00....they have a return on most coins...unheard of from Stacks and Heritage (at least that i know of)........

tcollects

I would save till you can get something impressive for a proof Morgan

skier07

Take your time. Proof Morgans are readily available. There are 143 on Collectors Corner right now. Look at auction archives and if you’re able to attend a major show. Pictures can easily hide hairlines so preferably buy a coin that you or an expert can carefully view in hand. I think 64 or higher is a sweet spot and my preference would be a coin with a sticker.

I bought these 25 years ago. I was able to upgrade the 64 to a 64+ and get both coins stickered.

airplanenut

@TomB said:
I'd like to echo the excellent advice given above and add something that was touched upon, but perhaps not hammered upon. That is, while images are great and can allow someone to look at scores of coins in a short period of time, they are by no means a true indicator of quality for large, nineteenth century proof coinage. You have to look at these coins in-hand and rotate them under a light and look at not only what you like about each coin, but just as importantly what you don't like, as well. These pieces in-hand give so much more information and you will need that when you buy.

Good luck!

I was going to say something similar, but I'll add the key to where my mind was going: hairlines are VERY easy to hide in photographs (often inadvertently, not maliciously). When you're used to modern proofs, hairlines all but don't exist, but on classic proofs, they can be all over a coin, even on coins pushing gem grades. One reason I don't consider classic proofs too much is that they tend to be too hairlined for my taste at a price point where I'd be comfortable. Until my budget/desire changes, I'll likely continue to simply accept that they're a realm of collecting where I won't be able to get one that I like, and I'm okay with that. Whatever research I might do if I were buying one, though, I wouldn't buy one online without a very trusted eye taking a look at the coin in-hand for me.

messydesk

The best dates for cameos are the 1880-82 and 1896-98. If you want a white one, it's going to have been dipped at least once, so beware of white coins of these dates without really strong mirrors. Take your time, look at a lot of coins, not just pictures of them, and don't pull the trigger until you know why a specific coin is the one for you. Hairlines will be more apparent on white coins, and PR64 will have some.

ProofCollection

Here is every proof Morgan available on Collectors Corner:
https://www.collectorscorner.com/Category/Category.aspx?catId=744&pId=2

humanssuck

@Morgan13 said:
I've got a budget of 5k. I don't want to get buried. Recently there was a thread about a $5k budget, coincidentally that's my budget.
A few questions please.
What can I expect to buy for
that kind of money meaning grade and year.
I really want a white proof not one covered with toning unless there is good reason to buy one toned for originality reasons.
Should I save more or possibly pay less?
I don't want to get buried because I didn't educate myself enough.
So I am asking for help and guidance.
This forum has helped me out plenty of times and I appreciate it.
If you have one please post an image!
I'd like to be inspired.

While they are expensive, they are not by any stretch hard to find. Don't settle and wait until you find one you absolutely love.

humanssuck

cant have a proof morgan thread without more pictures....

BillJones

I saw both the Morgan and Trade Dollars I posted before I bought them. The Morgan Dollar was via “private treaty’,” and the Trade Dollar was via auction. I agree that it is almost impossible to gauge the quality of a Proof from photographs.

golden

I think that you should go to a large show (ANA, FUN, CSNS) and look at a number of them on the bourse floor and take your pick.

Morgan13

I appreciate the response all sage advice.
Seems like hairlines are inevitable.
It's just how much I can tolerate. I am not in a rush. I have been looking but I don't want to "pull the trigger" without some guidance.
I just missed the Bay State show where I am sure many could have been found just for viewing.
Cameo or at least a light cameo is a must for me.
I do have a dealer friend who attends major shows and auctions.
I will chat with him.
Once again thank you guys for chiming in.

Eldorado9

Good luck w/ your search, they are truly awesome coins.