@paulb71 said:
I want robot umpires, I want the call to be correct for everyone. all umpires should have the exact same strike zone, to make if fair for all batters and pitchers.
can someone explain to me the term ( Framing a pitch ) you hear it every game about good catchers.
Are_ umpires so Gullible_ that if a pitch is 3 inches off the plate and the catcher, after he catches the pitch moves his glove into the strike zone area and the Umpire goes hmmm must be a strike ?? when I see a catcher frame a obvious ball and the ump calls a strike that is actually worse to me then a ghost runner at 2nd base for extra innings
To put it simply framing means making a pitch look better than it is. Its much more complex than little league just yank it into the zone stuff and it doesnt work 3 inches out. It involves every thing from how you set up, where you set up, how you catch it. Its a real thing and some catchers get significantly more strikes called than others.
Robot umps will make the defensive catchers useless and completely devalue the position. As Ive said before robot umps are probably a necessary evil since umpires arent held accountable, but go check out some videos of the automated strike zone. Theres going to be sliders bouncing in the other batters box that are strikes because it clipped the zone
I would rather the strike zone be called correctly than an umpire be fooled by framing.
By the way, this won't make defensive catchers 'useless' and if you think their only value is framing, then you do not have a good grasp of what makes a good catcher. They are responsible for calling the game, knowing batters' and pitchers' tendencies, strengths and weaknesses, etc.
Why anyone continues to argue for the human element (i.e., getting it wrong) is beyond me.
Catchers do not call pitches anymore, they are called from the dugout on an ipad which electronically tells the pitch through a devise worn in their hats. The number of catchers that actually call pitches can be counted on one hand, those days are gone.
Framing is a skill. It does devalue the position by removing that aspect of the game.
Catchers do not call pitches anymore. If anyone takes this guy seriously get help.
Make as many alt accounts as you want. Pitches are called from the dugout with pitchcom which is why catchers dont give signals anymore
Wrong again. Only account I’ve ever had here.
Some pitchers are wearing pitchcom devices also to call their own pitches. Scherzer for example. Catchers can call both pitch and location and many still are called by the catcher. The catcher also signals pick-offs, pitchouts, etc. when I listen to Pat Murphy talk about the game Contreras calls I’m supposed to think he’s lying.
Why anyone continues to argue for the human element (i.e., getting it wrong) is beyond me.
You want perfection, stay away from the ballpark. You want to watch the greatest team sport ever created, on a nice summer evening, go to a game.
At what point did I say I want 'perfection'? We have the ability to get the core function of the game (balls and strikes) right - why in god's name are you arguing against that? In what malformed universe do you have to exist in order to prefer a strike zone to be wrong? Is this Angel Hernandez?
I do not have time for ignorant trolls.
ignore list: 1948_Swell_Robinson, Darin, bgr, bronco2078, dallasactuary
Why anyone continues to argue for the human element (i.e., getting it wrong) is beyond me.
You want perfection, stay away from the ballpark. You want to watch the greatest team sport ever created, on a nice summer evening, go to a game.
At what point did I say I want 'perfection'? We have the ability to get the core function of the game (balls and strikes) right - why in god's name are you arguing against that? In what malformed universe do you have to exist in order to prefer a strike zone to be wrong? Is this Angel Hernandez?
Heart of the game is hitting the ball. Quality batters don't sweat an inch or two out of the zone. They drive it for an extra base hit.
An academic exercise as I have not watched a total of a dozen innings this century. Lost me in 1996 with the Cactus league tax imposed in my town.
All the rest of the dissolvement of the great pastime, is frosting.
Why anyone continues to argue for the human element (i.e., getting it wrong) is beyond me.
You want perfection, stay away from the ballpark. You want to watch the greatest team sport ever created, on a nice summer evening, go to a game.
At what point did I say I want 'perfection'? We have the ability to get the core function of the game (balls and strikes) right - why in god's name are you arguing against that? In what malformed universe do you have to exist in order to prefer a strike zone to be wrong? Is this Angel Hernandez?
Heart of the game is hitting the ball. Quality batters don't sweat an inch or two out of the zone. They drive it for an extra base hit.
An academic exercise as I have not watched a total of a dozen innings this century. Lost me in 1996 with the Cactus league tax imposed in my town.
All the rest of the dissolvement of the great pastime, is frosting.
Got it, Angel.
You haven't watched in over 20 years yet feel compelled to weigh in on something you know nothing about.
I do not have time for ignorant trolls.
ignore list: 1948_Swell_Robinson, Darin, bgr, bronco2078, dallasactuary
Why anyone continues to argue for the human element (i.e., getting it wrong) is beyond me.
You want perfection, stay away from the ballpark. You want to watch the greatest team sport ever created, on a nice summer evening, go to a game.
At what point did I say I want 'perfection'? We have the ability to get the core function of the game (balls and strikes) right - why in god's name are you arguing against that? In what malformed universe do you have to exist in order to prefer a strike zone to be wrong? Is this Angel Hernandez?
Heart of the game is hitting the ball. Quality batters don't sweat an inch or two out of the zone. They drive it for an extra base hit.
An academic exercise as I have not watched a total of a dozen innings this century. Lost me in 1996 with the Cactus league tax imposed in my town.
All the rest of the dissolvement of the great pastime, is frosting.
Got it, Angel.
You haven't watched in over 20 years yet feel compelled to weigh in on something you know nothing about.
28 years. I understand the history of the game and the mismanagement is stunning.
Phantom base runners in extra innings. 7 inning games where a no hitter is not recognized. Pitch clock when team owners could have solved the delay problem in team meetings. Asterisked home run records. proposed netting up to the outfield. Embracing sponsored gambling.
Is that the one with the racquet and the hoop and the horses?? You have no credibility.
Should Skenes still be in the minors throwing 40 pitches that you argued for? Do catchers telepathically call pitches now?
I would have put Skenes in the majors after his 3rd minor league appearance when he got up to 60. But. What I did for you was to explain the thinking of a mlb team which wants to maximize their investment. I used their words and linked an article. You were not arguing with me. The odds are a bit against him finishing the season strong. If only based on empirical data. I admit it’s not always fair to treat all examples equally and Skenes is certainly a rare specimen. You won’t get any of this until you learn to accept that you don’t know the future.
I am not aware of any catchers using telepathy or of any successful examples of telepathy. I suspect they use pitchcom (eye roll). That you don’t know that catchers can communicate with the pitcher using pitchcom speaks volumes.
Why anyone continues to argue for the human element (i.e., getting it wrong) is beyond me.
You want perfection, stay away from the ballpark. You want to watch the greatest team sport ever created, on a nice summer evening, go to a game.
At what point did I say I want 'perfection'? We have the ability to get the core function of the game (balls and strikes) right - why in god's name are you arguing against that? In what malformed universe do you have to exist in order to prefer a strike zone to be wrong? Is this Angel Hernandez?
Heart of the game is hitting the ball. Quality batters don't sweat an inch or two out of the zone. They drive it for an extra base hit.
An academic exercise as I have not watched a total of a dozen innings this century. Lost me in 1996 with the Cactus league tax imposed in my town.
All the rest of the dissolvement of the great pastime, is frosting.
Why anyone continues to argue for the human element (i.e., getting it wrong) is beyond me.
You want perfection, stay away from the ballpark. You want to watch the greatest team sport ever created, on a nice summer evening, go to a game.
At what point did I say I want 'perfection'? We have the ability to get the core function of the game (balls and strikes) right - why in god's name are you arguing against that? In what malformed universe do you have to exist in order to prefer a strike zone to be wrong? Is this Angel Hernandez?
Heart of the game is hitting the ball. Quality batters don't sweat an inch or two out of the zone. They drive it for an extra base hit.
An academic exercise as I have not watched a total of a dozen innings this century. Lost me in 1996 with the Cactus league tax imposed in my town.
All the rest of the dissolvement of the great pastime, is frosting.
Why anyone continues to argue for the human element (i.e., getting it wrong) is beyond me.
You want perfection, stay away from the ballpark. You want to watch the greatest team sport ever created, on a nice summer evening, go to a game.
At what point did I say I want 'perfection'? We have the ability to get the core function of the game (balls and strikes) right - why in god's name are you arguing against that? In what malformed universe do you have to exist in order to prefer a strike zone to be wrong? Is this Angel Hernandez?
Heart of the game is hitting the ball. Quality batters don't sweat an inch or two out of the zone. They drive it for an extra base hit.
An academic exercise as I have not watched a total of a dozen innings this century. Lost me in 1996 with the Cactus league tax imposed in my town.
All the rest of the dissolvement of the great pastime, is frosting.
Baseball isn’t for everyone.
But it used to be. Great family sport.
It still is as far as I’m concerned. But how would you know if you’ve watched fewer than a dozen innings in the last 24 years? Not all the rules are perfect. Not all of the rule changes are perfect. But everything needs to evolve, including the rules. This is what maintains the integrity of the sport.
Why anyone continues to argue for the human element (i.e., getting it wrong) is beyond me.
You want perfection, stay away from the ballpark. You want to watch the greatest team sport ever created, on a nice summer evening, go to a game.
At what point did I say I want 'perfection'? We have the ability to get the core function of the game (balls and strikes) right - why in god's name are you arguing against that? In what malformed universe do you have to exist in order to prefer a strike zone to be wrong? Is this Angel Hernandez?
Heart of the game is hitting the ball. Quality batters don't sweat an inch or two out of the zone. They drive it for an extra base hit.
An academic exercise as I have not watched a total of a dozen innings this century. Lost me in 1996 with the Cactus league tax imposed in my town.
All the rest of the dissolvement of the great pastime, is frosting.
Baseball isn’t for everyone.
But it used to be. Great family sport.
It still is as far as I’m concerned. But how would you know if you’ve watched fewer than a dozen innings in the last 24 years? Not all the rules are perfect. Not all of the rule changes are perfect. But everything needs to evolve, including the rules. This is what maintains the integrity of the sport.
Integrity was gone when the PEDS were ignored for a decade.
It was a game where you could escape the world for an afternoon. Forget the clock. The game is now a mechanism of corporate cannibalism. Fans are kept on a leash long enough to fund a new stadium.
Why anyone continues to argue for the human element (i.e., getting it wrong) is beyond me.
You want perfection, stay away from the ballpark. You want to watch the greatest team sport ever created, on a nice summer evening, go to a game.
At what point did I say I want 'perfection'? We have the ability to get the core function of the game (balls and strikes) right - why in god's name are you arguing against that? In what malformed universe do you have to exist in order to prefer a strike zone to be wrong? Is this Angel Hernandez?
Heart of the game is hitting the ball. Quality batters don't sweat an inch or two out of the zone. They drive it for an extra base hit.
An academic exercise as I have not watched a total of a dozen innings this century. Lost me in 1996 with the Cactus league tax imposed in my town.
All the rest of the dissolvement of the great pastime, is frosting.
Baseball isn’t for everyone.
But it used to be. Great family sport.
It still is as far as I’m concerned. But how would you know if you’ve watched fewer than a dozen innings in the last 24 years? Not all the rules are perfect. Not all of the rule changes are perfect. But everything needs to evolve, including the rules. This is what maintains the integrity of the sport.
Integrity was gone when the PEDS were ignored for a decade.
It was a game where you could escape the world for an afternoon. Forget the clock. The game is now a mechanism of corporate cannibalism. Fans are kept on a leash long enough to fund a new stadium.
PEDs were only a problem when the morality of the sheep changed with the wind. I’m sure a lot has changed in your time. The majority of fans obviously don’t think like you do or the sport wouldn’t be growing like it has been. There’s always pickleball. I hear it’s popular with old and young.
Wrong about what? There's not much you say on here that makes any sense so I may have missed it. I have no aversion to being wrong, but I also am careful to not assert my opinion as fact. So point it out... if you can... I absolutely LOVE admitting when I'm wrong because it means I learned something.
@bgr said:
Wrong about what? There's not much you say on here that makes any sense so I may have missed it. I have no aversion to being wrong, but I also am careful to not assert my opinion as fact. So point it out... if you can... I absolutely LOVE admitting when I'm wrong because it means I learned something.
"Its time for the ball/strike calls to be taken away from the home plate umpires."
@bgr said:
Wrong about what? There's not much you say on here that makes any sense so I may have missed it. I have no aversion to being wrong, but I also am careful to not assert my opinion as fact. So point it out... if you can... I absolutely LOVE admitting when I'm wrong because it means I learned something.
"Its time for the ball/strike calls to be taken away from the home plate umpires."
You're obviously confused. That is the headline (topic) for this thread. I didn't say that, and I didn't even offer my opinion on it. I will wait for it to arrive in MLB, observe and consider, before I form an initial opinion. I would agree with what Mistlin said about it though with respect to 'favoring a true outcome'. That's not exactly what he said -- I am paraphrasing. I would like balls to be called balls and strikes to be called strikes by minimizing human error in the umpiring the game.
But, if I had an opinion on it... Let's say I prefer "robo umps" or "the challenge system". My reasoning could be flawed, but it would hardly be wrong by any measure. If you don't understand that I can't help you.
I doubt the home plate assigned umpires will ever be replaced by anything related to technology. Too many things happen at home plate to relegate them to a lesser role in their duties. Technology needs to stay away from home plate. IMO, the great majority of balls and strikes are called reasonably well. Do they miss some, yup, its part of the game. There are perhaps some umps that should be out of the home plate assignment for poor performance. Maybe the ability to challenge might be the better option as is done in other plays. The umpires union is a huge factor in any rule impacting their membership. Angel Hernandez is still there because (IMO) their protection.
And, I'm not a fan of the ghost runner in extra innings games. This rule deprives the fans of an exciting finish.
Next. We are going to see a change in how pitches are called. It’s happening. It’s just not clear what it will be.
You might have a 2-3 month delay on your internet.
@MCMLVTopps said:
I doubt the home plate assigned umpires will ever be replaced by anything related to technology. Too many things happen at home plate to relegate them to a lesser role in their duties. Technology needs to stay away from home plate. IMO, the great majority of balls and strikes are called reasonably well. Do they miss some, yup, its part of the game. There are perhaps some umps that should be out of the home plate assignment for poor performance. Maybe the ability to challenge might be the better option as is done in other plays. The umpires union is a huge factor in any rule impacting their membership. Angel Hernandez is still there because (IMO) their protection.
And, I'm not a fan of the ghost runner in extra innings games. This rule deprives the fans of an exciting finish.
No one is suggesting removing the home plate umpire.
What needs to be done (and is long overdue) is removing their bias from calling balls and strikes. Anyone arguing for the continuation of a bad system is arguing for argument's sake.
The rulebook states explicitly what a strike is, yet we have been forced, for decades, to suffer through human bias adversely affecting the outcome of games.
The absolute BEST umpires today get about 95% calls correct. With an average of 270 pitches thrown in a 9-inning game, that means the BEST umpires are missing about 13 calls a game. The worst umpires (with an accuracy of about 92%) are missing over 20 calls a game.
Why anyone would accept that when technology exists to dramatically improve and standardize the strike zone to bring it in line with what the rule book explicitly states is absolutely clueless.
I do not have time for ignorant trolls.
ignore list: 1948_Swell_Robinson, Darin, bgr, bronco2078, dallasactuary
Why anyone continues to argue for the human element (i.e., getting it wrong) is beyond me.
You want perfection, stay away from the ballpark. You want to watch the greatest team sport ever created, on a nice summer evening, go to a game.
At what point did I say I want 'perfection'? We have the ability to get the core function of the game (balls and strikes) right - why in god's name are you arguing against that? In what malformed universe do you have to exist in order to prefer a strike zone to be wrong? Is this Angel Hernandez?
Heart of the game is hitting the ball. Quality batters don't sweat an inch or two out of the zone. They drive it for an extra base hit.
An academic exercise as I have not watched a total of a dozen innings this century. Lost me in 1996 with the Cactus league tax imposed in my town.
All the rest of the dissolvement of the great pastime, is frosting.
Got it, Angel.
You haven't watched in over 20 years yet feel compelled to weigh in on something you know nothing about.
28 years. I understand the history of the game and the mismanagement is stunning.
Phantom base runners in extra innings. 7 inning games where a no hitter is not recognized. Pitch clock when team owners could have solved the delay problem in team meetings. Asterisked home run records. proposed netting up to the outfield. Embracing sponsored gambling.
The history of the game? You mean the blatant racism that was allowed to exist for decades? Or was it the prevention of allowing players to play where they want via free agency?
The idea that you claim it was PED use in 1996 that drove you away reeks of revisionist history. I would at least have listened to you if you had said the owner-created work stoppage in 1994. But this excuse? You are a bald-faced liar.
I do not have time for ignorant trolls.
ignore list: 1948_Swell_Robinson, Darin, bgr, bronco2078, dallasactuary
@MCMLVTopps said:
I doubt the home plate assigned umpires will ever be replaced by anything related to technology. Too many things happen at home plate to relegate them to a lesser role in their duties. Technology needs to stay away from home plate. IMO, the great majority of balls and strikes are called reasonably well. Do they miss some, yup, its part of the game. There are perhaps some umps that should be out of the home plate assignment for poor performance. Maybe the ability to challenge might be the better option as is done in other plays. The umpires union is a huge factor in any rule impacting their membership. Angel Hernandez is still there because (IMO) their protection.
And, I'm not a fan of the ghost runner in extra innings games. This rule deprives the fans of an exciting finish.
Hernandez retried because of online criticism. As fans maybe we can get Diaz and Kulpa out too
Within the next 5 years balls and strikes will be called by hitracks or whatever they want to name their system. They;; probably leave the home plate umpire there as a formality and for the visual, but their most important role will just be throwing new balls to the pitcher.
The extra innings is a disgrace. Id rather see a tie than starting a guy on 2nd like its little league. At the very least at least wait until like the 14th inning instead of doing it right away
The rulebook states explicitly what a strike is, yet we have been forced, for decades, to suffer through human bias adversely affecting the outcome of games.
Its not quite that simple. Judge for instance has a different strike zone than Altuve and a system has to be adjustable in a split second with the 17 second pitch clock otherwise everyone will have the same zone. MLB has changed the definition of the zone at least 4 times over the years and the current one didnt come about until the mid 1990s
The rulebook states explicitly what a strike is, yet we have been forced, for decades, to suffer through human bias adversely affecting the outcome of games.
Its not quite that simple. Judge for instance has a different strike zone than Altuve and a system has to be adjustable in a split second with the 17 second pitch clock otherwise everyone will have the same zone. MLB has changed the definition of the zone at least 4 times over the years and the current one didnt come about until the mid 1990s
But it is that simple. The size of the strike zone varies from player to player, but the definition of the zone itself does not.
By the way, the mid 90s was 30 years ago.
The automated strike zone is coming, and it cannot get here quickly enough.
I do not have time for ignorant trolls.
ignore list: 1948_Swell_Robinson, Darin, bgr, bronco2078, dallasactuary
The rulebook states explicitly what a strike is, yet we have been forced, for decades, to suffer through human bias adversely affecting the outcome of games.
Its not quite that simple. Judge for instance has a different strike zone than Altuve and a system has to be adjustable in a split second with the 17 second pitch clock otherwise everyone will have the same zone. MLB has changed the definition of the zone at least 4 times over the years and the current one didnt come about until the mid 1990s
But it is that simple. The size of the strike zone varies from player to player, but the definition of the zone itself does not.
By the way, the mid 90s was 30 years ago.
The automated strike zone is coming, and it cannot get here quickly enough.
The definition of the zone has changed, at one point it was top of the knees to the arm pits not its middle of the chest which is a subjective term to the bottom of the knees also subjective. The automated zone will come MLB has already said that
The problem is that 17 second pitch clock batter has to be in the box within 8 seconds etc the technology needs to be there. Watch some of the videos from the minor league games. Anything going side to side or up or down will have more strikes called and people arent going to like strikes called that hit the dirt. The only thing worse than that will be the instances where tthere is no read on the pitch, then what?
The technology has to be ready. Theyve been testing it for years. Once its implemented theres no going back.
The rulebook states explicitly what a strike is, yet we have been forced, for decades, to suffer through human bias adversely affecting the outcome of games.
Its not quite that simple. Judge for instance has a different strike zone than Altuve and a system has to be adjustable in a split second with the 17 second pitch clock otherwise everyone will have the same zone. MLB has changed the definition of the zone at least 4 times over the years and the current one didnt come about until the mid 1990s
But it is that simple. The size of the strike zone varies from player to player, but the definition of the zone itself does not.
By the way, the mid 90s was 30 years ago.
The automated strike zone is coming, and it cannot get here quickly enough.
The definition of the zone has changed, at one point it was top of the knees to the arm pits not its middle of the chest which is a subjective term to the bottom of the knees also subjective. The automated zone will come MLB has already said that
The problem is that 17 second pitch clock batter has to be in the box within 8 seconds etc the technology needs to be there. Watch some of the videos from the minor league games. Anything going side to side or up or down will have more strikes called and people arent going to like strikes called that hit the dirt. The only thing worse than that will be the instances where tthere is no read on the pitch, then what?
The technology has to be ready. Theyve been testing it for years. Once its implemented theres no going back.
Have you given up trying to argue that catchers don't wear pitchcom devices and use them to signal pitches/locations to the pitcher? Zero Integrity.
@bgr said:
Wrong about what? There's not much you say on here that makes any sense so I may have missed it. I have no aversion to being wrong, but I also am careful to not assert my opinion as fact. So point it out... if you can... I absolutely LOVE admitting when I'm wrong because it means I learned something.
"Its time for the ball/strike calls to be taken away from the home plate umpires."
You're obviously confused. That is the headline (topic) for this thread. I didn't say that, and I didn't even offer my opinion on it. I will wait for it to arrive in MLB, observe and consider, before I form an initial opinion. I would agree with what Mistlin said about it though with respect to 'favoring a true outcome'. That's not exactly what he said -- I am paraphrasing. I would like balls to be called balls and strikes to be called strikes by minimizing human error in the umpiring the game.
But, if I had an opinion on it... Let's say I prefer "robo umps" or "the challenge system". My reasoning could be flawed, but it would hardly be wrong by any measure. If you don't understand that I can't help you.
@DocBenjamin You gave up like a fart in the night. Poof.
The rulebook states explicitly what a strike is, yet we have been forced, for decades, to suffer through human bias adversely affecting the outcome of games.
Its not quite that simple. Judge for instance has a different strike zone than Altuve and a system has to be adjustable in a split second with the 17 second pitch clock otherwise everyone will have the same zone. MLB has changed the definition of the zone at least 4 times over the years and the current one didnt come about until the mid 1990s
But it is that simple. The size of the strike zone varies from player to player, but the definition of the zone itself does not.
By the way, the mid 90s was 30 years ago.
The automated strike zone is coming, and it cannot get here quickly enough.
The definition of the zone has changed, at one point it was top of the knees to the arm pits not its middle of the chest which is a subjective term to the bottom of the knees also subjective. The automated zone will come MLB has already said that
The problem is that 17 second pitch clock batter has to be in the box within 8 seconds etc the technology needs to be there. Watch some of the videos from the minor league games. Anything going side to side or up or down will have more strikes called and people arent going to like strikes called that hit the dirt. The only thing worse than that will be the instances where tthere is no read on the pitch, then what?
The technology has to be ready. Theyve been testing it for years. Once its implemented theres no going back.
Have you given up trying to argue that catchers don't wear pitchcom devices and use them to signal pitches/locations to the pitcher? Zero Integrity.
No im just ignoring you because pitches are called from the dugout from an ipad that gives the call to the pitchers catchers and some fielders
Catchers dont call pitches in high school, and they dont call them in college anymore either. They dont magically start calling them in MLB. Its nothing more than the electronic version of them looking to the dugout for the sign
The rulebook states explicitly what a strike is, yet we have been forced, for decades, to suffer through human bias adversely affecting the outcome of games.
Its not quite that simple. Judge for instance has a different strike zone than Altuve and a system has to be adjustable in a split second with the 17 second pitch clock otherwise everyone will have the same zone. MLB has changed the definition of the zone at least 4 times over the years and the current one didnt come about until the mid 1990s
But it is that simple. The size of the strike zone varies from player to player, but the definition of the zone itself does not.
By the way, the mid 90s was 30 years ago.
The automated strike zone is coming, and it cannot get here quickly enough.
The definition of the zone has changed, at one point it was top of the knees to the arm pits not its middle of the chest which is a subjective term to the bottom of the knees also subjective. The automated zone will come MLB has already said that
The problem is that 17 second pitch clock batter has to be in the box within 8 seconds etc the technology needs to be there. Watch some of the videos from the minor league games. Anything going side to side or up or down will have more strikes called and people arent going to like strikes called that hit the dirt. The only thing worse than that will be the instances where tthere is no read on the pitch, then what?
The technology has to be ready. Theyve been testing it for years. Once its implemented theres no going back.
Have you given up trying to argue that catchers don't wear pitchcom devices and use them to signal pitches/locations to the pitcher? Zero Integrity.
No im just ignoring you because pitches are called from the dugout from an ipad that gives the call to the pitchers catchers and some fielders
Catchers dont call pitches in high school, and they dont call them in college anymore either. They dont magically start calling them in MLB. Its nothing more than the electronic version of them looking to the dugout for the sign
And you have proof about this to dispute the catchers, managers, pitchers, and other individuals who speak in opposition of your statement, right? It's even been discussed on MLB network... with active players. Yet you seem to know the truth somehow and can dispute these accounts? ... I wonder if you even know north from south sometimes.
The rulebook states explicitly what a strike is, yet we have been forced, for decades, to suffer through human bias adversely affecting the outcome of games.
Its not quite that simple. Judge for instance has a different strike zone than Altuve and a system has to be adjustable in a split second with the 17 second pitch clock otherwise everyone will have the same zone. MLB has changed the definition of the zone at least 4 times over the years and the current one didnt come about until the mid 1990s
But it is that simple. The size of the strike zone varies from player to player, but the definition of the zone itself does not.
By the way, the mid 90s was 30 years ago.
The automated strike zone is coming, and it cannot get here quickly enough.
The definition of the zone has changed, at one point it was top of the knees to the arm pits not its middle of the chest which is a subjective term to the bottom of the knees also subjective. The automated zone will come MLB has already said that
The problem is that 17 second pitch clock batter has to be in the box within 8 seconds etc the technology needs to be there. Watch some of the videos from the minor league games. Anything going side to side or up or down will have more strikes called and people arent going to like strikes called that hit the dirt. The only thing worse than that will be the instances where tthere is no read on the pitch, then what?
The technology has to be ready. Theyve been testing it for years. Once its implemented theres no going back.
Have you given up trying to argue that catchers don't wear pitchcom devices and use them to signal pitches/locations to the pitcher? Zero Integrity.
No im just ignoring you because pitches are called from the dugout from an ipad that gives the call to the pitchers catchers and some fielders
Catchers dont call pitches in high school, and they dont call them in college anymore either. They dont magically start calling them in MLB. Its nothing more than the electronic version of them looking to the dugout for the sign
And you have proof about this to dispute the catchers, managers, pitchers, and other individuals who speak in opposition of your statement, right? It's even been discussed on MLB network... with active players. Yet you seem to know the truth somehow and can dispute these accounts? ... I wonder if you even know north from south sometimes.
They dont speak in opposition of it. They literally brag about their technology and have the controllers and ipads leaning against the wall. But sure every time you see a catcher never move his hand but a signal appears im sure hes telepathically doing it I guess
The rulebook states explicitly what a strike is, yet we have been forced, for decades, to suffer through human bias adversely affecting the outcome of games.
Its not quite that simple. Judge for instance has a different strike zone than Altuve and a system has to be adjustable in a split second with the 17 second pitch clock otherwise everyone will have the same zone. MLB has changed the definition of the zone at least 4 times over the years and the current one didnt come about until the mid 1990s
But it is that simple. The size of the strike zone varies from player to player, but the definition of the zone itself does not.
By the way, the mid 90s was 30 years ago.
The automated strike zone is coming, and it cannot get here quickly enough.
The definition of the zone has changed, at one point it was top of the knees to the arm pits not its middle of the chest which is a subjective term to the bottom of the knees also subjective. The automated zone will come MLB has already said that
The problem is that 17 second pitch clock batter has to be in the box within 8 seconds etc the technology needs to be there. Watch some of the videos from the minor league games. Anything going side to side or up or down will have more strikes called and people arent going to like strikes called that hit the dirt. The only thing worse than that will be the instances where tthere is no read on the pitch, then what?
The technology has to be ready. Theyve been testing it for years. Once its implemented theres no going back.
Have you given up trying to argue that catchers don't wear pitchcom devices and use them to signal pitches/locations to the pitcher? Zero Integrity.
No im just ignoring you because pitches are called from the dugout from an ipad that gives the call to the pitchers catchers and some fielders
Catchers dont call pitches in high school, and they dont call them in college anymore either. They dont magically start calling them in MLB. Its nothing more than the electronic version of them looking to the dugout for the sign
And you have proof about this to dispute the catchers, managers, pitchers, and other individuals who speak in opposition of your statement, right? It's even been discussed on MLB network... with active players. Yet you seem to know the truth somehow and can dispute these accounts? ... I wonder if you even know north from south sometimes.
They dont speak in opposition of it. They literally brag about their technology and have the controllers and ipads leaning against the wall. But sure every time you see a catcher never move his hand but a signal appears im sure hes telepathically doing it I guess
Some catchers say they prefer calls from the dugout. With pitchcom it’s certainly possible. Also, and as you mention, some fielders have pitchcom receivers and they know what the pitch is for positioning. They can also get calls for pickoffs or step offs. But this isn’t the case for all catchers. Molina, who I admit is retired called every pitch according to him and his manager. Contreras also calls games when he’s behind the plate according to Murphy. Some catchers wear the pitchcom devices on their leg and some on their wrist. When you see them move their glove over their knee, for example, that’s what they’re interacting. I would hope this is well understood but you appear oblivious. I’m impressed.
In 2023 MLB expanded who can wear the devices and who can wear the receivers. Notably Scherzer and Ohtani were wearing it in 2023.
To cover my bases here is an article on telepathy as we haven’t established you know what that is we might be talking about the same thing and you’re using the wrong term.
@bgr said:
Wrong about what? There's not much you say on here that makes any sense so I may have missed it. I have no aversion to being wrong, but I also am careful to not assert my opinion as fact. So point it out... if you can... I absolutely LOVE admitting when I'm wrong because it means I learned something.
"Its time for the ball/strike calls to be taken away from the home plate umpires."
You're obviously confused. That is the headline (topic) for this thread. I didn't say that, and I didn't even offer my opinion on it. I will wait for it to arrive in MLB, observe and consider, before I form an initial opinion. I would agree with what Mistlin said about it though with respect to 'favoring a true outcome'. That's not exactly what he said -- I am paraphrasing. I would like balls to be called balls and strikes to be called strikes by minimizing human error in the umpiring the game.
But, if I had an opinion on it... Let's say I prefer "robo umps" or "the challenge system". My reasoning could be flawed, but it would hardly be wrong by any measure. If you don't understand that I can't help you.
@DocBenjamin You gave up like a fart in the night. Poof.
I only dispense wisdom. Arguing is for the weaker hands.
The rulebook states explicitly what a strike is, yet we have been forced, for decades, to suffer through human bias adversely affecting the outcome of games.
Its not quite that simple. Judge for instance has a different strike zone than Altuve and a system has to be adjustable in a split second with the 17 second pitch clock otherwise everyone will have the same zone. MLB has changed the definition of the zone at least 4 times over the years and the current one didnt come about until the mid 1990s
But it is that simple. The size of the strike zone varies from player to player, but the definition of the zone itself does not.
By the way, the mid 90s was 30 years ago.
The automated strike zone is coming, and it cannot get here quickly enough.
The definition of the zone has changed, at one point it was top of the knees to the arm pits not its middle of the chest which is a subjective term to the bottom of the knees also subjective. The automated zone will come MLB has already said that
The problem is that 17 second pitch clock batter has to be in the box within 8 seconds etc the technology needs to be there. Watch some of the videos from the minor league games. Anything going side to side or up or down will have more strikes called and people arent going to like strikes called that hit the dirt. The only thing worse than that will be the instances where tthere is no read on the pitch, then what?
The technology has to be ready. Theyve been testing it for years. Once its implemented theres no going back.
Have you given up trying to argue that catchers don't wear pitchcom devices and use them to signal pitches/locations to the pitcher? Zero Integrity.
No im just ignoring you because pitches are called from the dugout from an ipad that gives the call to the pitchers catchers and some fielders
Catchers dont call pitches in high school, and they dont call them in college anymore either. They dont magically start calling them in MLB. Its nothing more than the electronic version of them looking to the dugout for the sign
And you have proof about this to dispute the catchers, managers, pitchers, and other individuals who speak in opposition of your statement, right? It's even been discussed on MLB network... with active players. Yet you seem to know the truth somehow and can dispute these accounts? ... I wonder if you even know north from south sometimes.
They dont speak in opposition of it. They literally brag about their technology and have the controllers and ipads leaning against the wall. But sure every time you see a catcher never move his hand but a signal appears im sure hes telepathically doing it I guess
Some catchers say they prefer calls from the dugout. With pitchcom it’s certainly possible. Also, and as you mention, some fielders have pitchcom receivers and they know what the pitch is for positioning. They can also get calls for pickoffs or step offs. But this isn’t the case for all catchers. Molina, who I admit is retired called every pitch according to him and his manager. Contreras also calls games when he’s behind the plate according to Murphy. Some catchers wear the pitchcom devices on their leg and some on their wrist. When you see them move their glove over their knee, for example, that’s what they’re interacting. I would hope this is well understood but you appear oblivious. I’m impressed.
In 2023 MLB expanded who can wear the devices and who can wear the receivers. Notably Scherzer and Ohtani were wearing it in 2023.
To cover my bases here is an article on telepathy as we haven’t established you know what that is we might be talking about the same thing and you’re using the wrong term.
@bgr said:
Wrong about what? There's not much you say on here that makes any sense so I may have missed it. I have no aversion to being wrong, but I also am careful to not assert my opinion as fact. So point it out... if you can... I absolutely LOVE admitting when I'm wrong because it means I learned something.
"Its time for the ball/strike calls to be taken away from the home plate umpires."
You're obviously confused. That is the headline (topic) for this thread. I didn't say that, and I didn't even offer my opinion on it. I will wait for it to arrive in MLB, observe and consider, before I form an initial opinion. I would agree with what Mistlin said about it though with respect to 'favoring a true outcome'. That's not exactly what he said -- I am paraphrasing. I would like balls to be called balls and strikes to be called strikes by minimizing human error in the umpiring the game.
But, if I had an opinion on it... Let's say I prefer "robo umps" or "the challenge system". My reasoning could be flawed, but it would hardly be wrong by any measure. If you don't understand that I can't help you.
@DocBenjamin You gave up like a fart in the night. Poof.
I only dispense wisdom. Arguing is for the weaker hands.
You said I was wrong about this topic.
I said that I haven’t even commented on what I thought and asked what I was wrong about.
The rulebook states explicitly what a strike is, yet we have been forced, for decades, to suffer through human bias adversely affecting the outcome of games.
Its not quite that simple. Judge for instance has a different strike zone than Altuve and a system has to be adjustable in a split second with the 17 second pitch clock otherwise everyone will have the same zone. MLB has changed the definition of the zone at least 4 times over the years and the current one didnt come about until the mid 1990s
But it is that simple. The size of the strike zone varies from player to player, but the definition of the zone itself does not.
By the way, the mid 90s was 30 years ago.
The automated strike zone is coming, and it cannot get here quickly enough.
The definition of the zone has changed, at one point it was top of the knees to the arm pits not its middle of the chest which is a subjective term to the bottom of the knees also subjective. The automated zone will come MLB has already said that
The problem is that 17 second pitch clock batter has to be in the box within 8 seconds etc the technology needs to be there. Watch some of the videos from the minor league games. Anything going side to side or up or down will have more strikes called and people arent going to like strikes called that hit the dirt. The only thing worse than that will be the instances where tthere is no read on the pitch, then what?
The technology has to be ready. Theyve been testing it for years. Once its implemented theres no going back.
Have you given up trying to argue that catchers don't wear pitchcom devices and use them to signal pitches/locations to the pitcher? Zero Integrity.
No im just ignoring you because pitches are called from the dugout from an ipad that gives the call to the pitchers catchers and some fielders
Catchers dont call pitches in high school, and they dont call them in college anymore either. They dont magically start calling them in MLB. Its nothing more than the electronic version of them looking to the dugout for the sign
And you have proof about this to dispute the catchers, managers, pitchers, and other individuals who speak in opposition of your statement, right? It's even been discussed on MLB network... with active players. Yet you seem to know the truth somehow and can dispute these accounts? ... I wonder if you even know north from south sometimes.
They dont speak in opposition of it. They literally brag about their technology and have the controllers and ipads leaning against the wall. But sure every time you see a catcher never move his hand but a signal appears im sure hes telepathically doing it I guess
Some catchers say they prefer calls from the dugout. With pitchcom it’s certainly possible. Also, and as you mention, some fielders have pitchcom receivers and they know what the pitch is for positioning. They can also get calls for pickoffs or step offs. But this isn’t the case for all catchers. Molina, who I admit is retired called every pitch according to him and his manager. Contreras also calls games when he’s behind the plate according to Murphy. Some catchers wear the pitchcom devices on their leg and some on their wrist. When you see them move their glove over their knee, for example, that’s what they’re interacting. I would hope this is well understood but you appear oblivious. I’m impressed.
In 2023 MLB expanded who can wear the devices and who can wear the receivers. Notably Scherzer and Ohtani were wearing it in 2023.
To cover my bases here is an article on telepathy as we haven’t established you know what that is we might be talking about the same thing and you’re using the wrong term.
I never said it was every catcher. But you seem to just want to argue with anything I say so I just ignore incorrect statements from you
Every mention from you specifies that no catchers in MLB call pitches from behind the plate. Every one.
I have always said that many do and some don’t.
You want to be right so bad that you compound your error. No one would hold you in poor regard if you were occasionally incorrect. Now that you seem to completely agree with me we can move on.
The rulebook states explicitly what a strike is, yet we have been forced, for decades, to suffer through human bias adversely affecting the outcome of games.
Its not quite that simple. Judge for instance has a different strike zone than Altuve and a system has to be adjustable in a split second with the 17 second pitch clock otherwise everyone will have the same zone. MLB has changed the definition of the zone at least 4 times over the years and the current one didnt come about until the mid 1990s
But it is that simple. The size of the strike zone varies from player to player, but the definition of the zone itself does not.
By the way, the mid 90s was 30 years ago.
The automated strike zone is coming, and it cannot get here quickly enough.
The definition of the zone has changed, at one point it was top of the knees to the arm pits not its middle of the chest which is a subjective term to the bottom of the knees also subjective. The automated zone will come MLB has already said that
The problem is that 17 second pitch clock batter has to be in the box within 8 seconds etc the technology needs to be there. Watch some of the videos from the minor league games. Anything going side to side or up or down will have more strikes called and people arent going to like strikes called that hit the dirt. The only thing worse than that will be the instances where tthere is no read on the pitch, then what?
The technology has to be ready. Theyve been testing it for years. Once its implemented theres no going back.
Have you given up trying to argue that catchers don't wear pitchcom devices and use them to signal pitches/locations to the pitcher? Zero Integrity.
No im just ignoring you because pitches are called from the dugout from an ipad that gives the call to the pitchers catchers and some fielders
Catchers dont call pitches in high school, and they dont call them in college anymore either. They dont magically start calling them in MLB. Its nothing more than the electronic version of them looking to the dugout for the sign
And you have proof about this to dispute the catchers, managers, pitchers, and other individuals who speak in opposition of your statement, right? It's even been discussed on MLB network... with active players. Yet you seem to know the truth somehow and can dispute these accounts? ... I wonder if you even know north from south sometimes.
They dont speak in opposition of it. They literally brag about their technology and have the controllers and ipads leaning against the wall. But sure every time you see a catcher never move his hand but a signal appears im sure hes telepathically doing it I guess
Some catchers say they prefer calls from the dugout. With pitchcom it’s certainly possible. Also, and as you mention, some fielders have pitchcom receivers and they know what the pitch is for positioning. They can also get calls for pickoffs or step offs. But this isn’t the case for all catchers. Molina, who I admit is retired called every pitch according to him and his manager. Contreras also calls games when he’s behind the plate according to Murphy. Some catchers wear the pitchcom devices on their leg and some on their wrist. When you see them move their glove over their knee, for example, that’s what they’re interacting. I would hope this is well understood but you appear oblivious. I’m impressed.
In 2023 MLB expanded who can wear the devices and who can wear the receivers. Notably Scherzer and Ohtani were wearing it in 2023.
To cover my bases here is an article on telepathy as we haven’t established you know what that is we might be talking about the same thing and you’re using the wrong term.
I never said it was every catcher. But you seem to just want to argue with anything I say so I just ignore incorrect statements from you
Every mention from you specifies that no catchers in MLB call pitches from behind the plate. Every one.
I have always said that many do and some don’t.
You want to be right so bad that you compound your error. No one would hold you in poor regard if you were occasionally incorrect. Now that you seem to completely agree with me we can move on.
The rulebook states explicitly what a strike is, yet we have been forced, for decades, to suffer through human bias adversely affecting the outcome of games.
Its not quite that simple. Judge for instance has a different strike zone than Altuve and a system has to be adjustable in a split second with the 17 second pitch clock otherwise everyone will have the same zone. MLB has changed the definition of the zone at least 4 times over the years and the current one didnt come about until the mid 1990s
But it is that simple. The size of the strike zone varies from player to player, but the definition of the zone itself does not.
By the way, the mid 90s was 30 years ago.
The automated strike zone is coming, and it cannot get here quickly enough.
The definition of the zone has changed, at one point it was top of the knees to the arm pits not its middle of the chest which is a subjective term to the bottom of the knees also subjective. The automated zone will come MLB has already said that
The problem is that 17 second pitch clock batter has to be in the box within 8 seconds etc the technology needs to be there. Watch some of the videos from the minor league games. Anything going side to side or up or down will have more strikes called and people arent going to like strikes called that hit the dirt. The only thing worse than that will be the instances where tthere is no read on the pitch, then what?
The technology has to be ready. Theyve been testing it for years. Once its implemented theres no going back.
Have you given up trying to argue that catchers don't wear pitchcom devices and use them to signal pitches/locations to the pitcher? Zero Integrity.
No im just ignoring you because pitches are called from the dugout from an ipad that gives the call to the pitchers catchers and some fielders
Catchers dont call pitches in high school, and they dont call them in college anymore either. They dont magically start calling them in MLB. Its nothing more than the electronic version of them looking to the dugout for the sign
And you have proof about this to dispute the catchers, managers, pitchers, and other individuals who speak in opposition of your statement, right? It's even been discussed on MLB network... with active players. Yet you seem to know the truth somehow and can dispute these accounts? ... I wonder if you even know north from south sometimes.
They dont speak in opposition of it. They literally brag about their technology and have the controllers and ipads leaning against the wall. But sure every time you see a catcher never move his hand but a signal appears im sure hes telepathically doing it I guess
Some catchers say they prefer calls from the dugout. With pitchcom it’s certainly possible. Also, and as you mention, some fielders have pitchcom receivers and they know what the pitch is for positioning. They can also get calls for pickoffs or step offs. But this isn’t the case for all catchers. Molina, who I admit is retired called every pitch according to him and his manager. Contreras also calls games when he’s behind the plate according to Murphy. Some catchers wear the pitchcom devices on their leg and some on their wrist. When you see them move their glove over their knee, for example, that’s what they’re interacting. I would hope this is well understood but you appear oblivious. I’m impressed.
In 2023 MLB expanded who can wear the devices and who can wear the receivers. Notably Scherzer and Ohtani were wearing it in 2023.
To cover my bases here is an article on telepathy as we haven’t established you know what that is we might be talking about the same thing and you’re using the wrong term.
I never said it was every catcher. But you seem to just want to argue with anything I say so I just ignore incorrect statements from you
Every mention from you specifies that no catchers in MLB call pitches from behind the plate. Every one.
I have always said that many do and some don’t.
You want to be right so bad that you compound your error. No one would hold you in poor regard if you were occasionally incorrect. Now that you seem to completely agree with me we can move on.
Theres literally a post by me in this actual thread that didnt say that. Im going back to ignoring your incorrect information
The rulebook states explicitly what a strike is, yet we have been forced, for decades, to suffer through human bias adversely affecting the outcome of games.
Its not quite that simple. Judge for instance has a different strike zone than Altuve and a system has to be adjustable in a split second with the 17 second pitch clock otherwise everyone will have the same zone. MLB has changed the definition of the zone at least 4 times over the years and the current one didnt come about until the mid 1990s
But it is that simple. The size of the strike zone varies from player to player, but the definition of the zone itself does not.
By the way, the mid 90s was 30 years ago.
The automated strike zone is coming, and it cannot get here quickly enough.
The definition of the zone has changed, at one point it was top of the knees to the arm pits not its middle of the chest which is a subjective term to the bottom of the knees also subjective. The automated zone will come MLB has already said that
The problem is that 17 second pitch clock batter has to be in the box within 8 seconds etc the technology needs to be there. Watch some of the videos from the minor league games. Anything going side to side or up or down will have more strikes called and people arent going to like strikes called that hit the dirt. The only thing worse than that will be the instances where tthere is no read on the pitch, then what?
The technology has to be ready. Theyve been testing it for years. Once its implemented theres no going back.
Have you given up trying to argue that catchers don't wear pitchcom devices and use them to signal pitches/locations to the pitcher? Zero Integrity.
No im just ignoring you because pitches are called from the dugout from an ipad that gives the call to the pitchers catchers and some fielders
Catchers dont call pitches in high school, and they dont call them in college anymore either. They dont magically start calling them in MLB. Its nothing more than the electronic version of them looking to the dugout for the sign
And you have proof about this to dispute the catchers, managers, pitchers, and other individuals who speak in opposition of your statement, right? It's even been discussed on MLB network... with active players. Yet you seem to know the truth somehow and can dispute these accounts? ... I wonder if you even know north from south sometimes.
They dont speak in opposition of it. They literally brag about their technology and have the controllers and ipads leaning against the wall. But sure every time you see a catcher never move his hand but a signal appears im sure hes telepathically doing it I guess
Some catchers say they prefer calls from the dugout. With pitchcom it’s certainly possible. Also, and as you mention, some fielders have pitchcom receivers and they know what the pitch is for positioning. They can also get calls for pickoffs or step offs. But this isn’t the case for all catchers. Molina, who I admit is retired called every pitch according to him and his manager. Contreras also calls games when he’s behind the plate according to Murphy. Some catchers wear the pitchcom devices on their leg and some on their wrist. When you see them move their glove over their knee, for example, that’s what they’re interacting. I would hope this is well understood but you appear oblivious. I’m impressed.
In 2023 MLB expanded who can wear the devices and who can wear the receivers. Notably Scherzer and Ohtani were wearing it in 2023.
To cover my bases here is an article on telepathy as we haven’t established you know what that is we might be talking about the same thing and you’re using the wrong term.
I never said it was every catcher. But you seem to just want to argue with anything I say so I just ignore incorrect statements from you
Every mention from you specifies that no catchers in MLB call pitches from behind the plate. Every one.
I have always said that many do and some don’t.
You want to be right so bad that you compound your error. No one would hold you in poor regard if you were occasionally incorrect. Now that you seem to completely agree with me we can move on.
Theres literally a post by me in this actual thread that didnt say that. Im going back to ignoring your incorrect information
Thank you. Now I get to model proper behavior.
You’re right. Half of your comments indicated that it’s all catchers and half specified it’s most don’t and some do.
@paulb71 said:
I want robot umpires, I want the call to be correct for everyone. all umpires should have the exact same strike zone, to make if fair for all batters and pitchers.
can someone explain to me the term ( Framing a pitch ) you hear it every game about good catchers.
Are_ umpires so Gullible_ that if a pitch is 3 inches off the plate and the catcher, after he catches the pitch moves his glove into the strike zone area and the Umpire goes hmmm must be a strike ?? when I see a catcher frame a obvious ball and the ump calls a strike that is actually worse to me then a ghost runner at 2nd base for extra innings
To put it simply framing means making a pitch look better than it is. Its much more complex than little league just yank it into the zone stuff and it doesnt work 3 inches out. It involves every thing from how you set up, where you set up, how you catch it. Its a real thing and some catchers get significantly more strikes called than others.
Robot umps will make the defensive catchers useless and completely devalue the position. As Ive said before robot umps are probably a necessary evil since umpires arent held accountable, but go check out some videos of the automated strike zone. Theres going to be sliders bouncing in the other batters box that are strikes because it clipped the zone
I would rather the strike zone be called correctly than an umpire be fooled by framing.
By the way, this won't make defensive catchers 'useless' and if you think their only value is framing, then you do not have a good grasp of what makes a good catcher. They are responsible for calling the game, knowing batters' and pitchers' tendencies, strengths and weaknesses, etc.
Why anyone continues to argue for the human element (i.e., getting it wrong) is beyond me.
Catchers do not call pitches anymore, they are called from the dugout on an ipad which electronically tells the pitch through a devise worn in their hats. The number of catchers that actually call pitches can be counted on one hand, those days are gone.
Framing is a skill. It does devalue the position by removing that aspect of the game.
@paulb71 said:
I want robot umpires, I want the call to be correct for everyone. all umpires should have the exact same strike zone, to make if fair for all batters and pitchers.
can someone explain to me the term ( Framing a pitch ) you hear it every game about good catchers.
Are_ umpires so Gullible_ that if a pitch is 3 inches off the plate and the catcher, after he catches the pitch moves his glove into the strike zone area and the Umpire goes hmmm must be a strike ?? when I see a catcher frame a obvious ball and the ump calls a strike that is actually worse to me then a ghost runner at 2nd base for extra innings
To put it simply framing means making a pitch look better than it is. Its much more complex than little league just yank it into the zone stuff and it doesnt work 3 inches out. It involves every thing from how you set up, where you set up, how you catch it. Its a real thing and some catchers get significantly more strikes called than others.
Robot umps will make the defensive catchers useless and completely devalue the position. As Ive said before robot umps are probably a necessary evil since umpires arent held accountable, but go check out some videos of the automated strike zone. Theres going to be sliders bouncing in the other batters box that are strikes because it clipped the zone
I would rather the strike zone be called correctly than an umpire be fooled by framing.
By the way, this won't make defensive catchers 'useless' and if you think their only value is framing, then you do not have a good grasp of what makes a good catcher. They are responsible for calling the game, knowing batters' and pitchers' tendencies, strengths and weaknesses, etc.
Why anyone continues to argue for the human element (i.e., getting it wrong) is beyond me.
Catchers do not call pitches anymore, they are called from the dugout on an ipad which electronically tells the pitch through a devise worn in their hats. The number of catchers that actually call pitches can be counted on one hand, those days are gone.
Framing is a skill. It does devalue the position by removing that aspect of the game.
Catchers do not call pitches anymore. If anyone takes this guy seriously get help.
Make as many alt accounts as you want. Pitches are called from the dugout with pitchcom which is why catchers dont give signals anymore
The point is to get the calls right. I can live with the plate being like a box and the ball breaking in or out to make it a strike and if its a strike then good for the pitcher but if no part of the ball touches the plate then it should be called a ball. It will eliminate a lot of stress on everybody if the correct call is made ! Tell me what's wrong with that.
Also who cares who is sending the pitch to the pitcher. It does not matter at all.
Is that the one with the racquet and the hoop and the horses?? You have no credibility.
Should Skenes still be in the minors throwing 40 pitches that you argued for? Do catchers telepathically call pitches now?
I would have put Skenes in the majors after his 3rd minor league appearance when he got up to 60. But. What I did for you was to explain the thinking of a mlb team which wants to maximize their investment. I used their words and linked an article. You were not arguing with me. The odds are a bit against him finishing the season strong. If only based on empirical data. I admit it’s not always fair to treat all examples equally and Skenes is certainly a rare specimen. You won’t get any of this until you learn to accept that you don’t know the future.
I am not aware of any catchers using telepathy or of any successful examples of telepathy. I suspect they use pitchcom (eye roll). That you don’t know that catchers can communicate with the pitcher using pitchcom speaks volumes.
you should be ejected from the forum for using italics
@tommyrusty7 said:
The point is to get the calls right. I can live with the plate being like a box and the ball breaking in or out to make it a strike and if its a strike then good for the pitcher but if no part of the ball touches the plate then it should be called a ball. It will eliminate a lot of stress on everybody if the correct call is made ! Tell me what's wrong with that.
Also who cares who is sending the pitch to the pitcher. It does not matter at all.
Gamblers and those with OCD demand accuracy beyond human ability.
To watch a 260 pound ump throw his arm in the air and yell "steeeerike" is worth a few missed calls.
Comments
Wrong again. Only account I’ve ever had here.
Some pitchers are wearing pitchcom devices also to call their own pitches. Scherzer for example. Catchers can call both pitch and location and many still are called by the catcher. The catcher also signals pick-offs, pitchouts, etc. when I listen to Pat Murphy talk about the game Contreras calls I’m supposed to think he’s lying.
Learn how baseball is played
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
At what point did I say I want 'perfection'? We have the ability to get the core function of the game (balls and strikes) right - why in god's name are you arguing against that? In what malformed universe do you have to exist in order to prefer a strike zone to be wrong? Is this Angel Hernandez?
I do not have time for ignorant trolls.
ignore list: 1948_Swell_Robinson, Darin, bgr, bronco2078, dallasactuary
Heart of the game is hitting the ball. Quality batters don't sweat an inch or two out of the zone. They drive it for an extra base hit.
An academic exercise as I have not watched a total of a dozen innings this century. Lost me in 1996 with the Cactus league tax imposed in my town.
All the rest of the dissolvement of the great pastime, is frosting.
Is that the one with the racquet and the hoop and the horses?? You have no credibility.
Should Skenes still be in the minors throwing 40 pitches that you argued for? Do catchers telepathically call pitches now?
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
Got it, Angel.
You haven't watched in over 20 years yet feel compelled to weigh in on something you know nothing about.
I do not have time for ignorant trolls.
ignore list: 1948_Swell_Robinson, Darin, bgr, bronco2078, dallasactuary
28 years. I understand the history of the game and the mismanagement is stunning.
Phantom base runners in extra innings. 7 inning games where a no hitter is not recognized. Pitch clock when team owners could have solved the delay problem in team meetings. Asterisked home run records. proposed netting up to the outfield. Embracing sponsored gambling.
The catcher wears a number pad thing and relays the signal to the pitcher.
In Houston, they do it with a gong.
Some do. Most dont.
Catheters dont call pitches in high school or college
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
I would have put Skenes in the majors after his 3rd minor league appearance when he got up to 60. But. What I did for you was to explain the thinking of a mlb team which wants to maximize their investment. I used their words and linked an article. You were not arguing with me. The odds are a bit against him finishing the season strong. If only based on empirical data. I admit it’s not always fair to treat all examples equally and Skenes is certainly a rare specimen. You won’t get any of this until you learn to accept that you don’t know the future.
I am not aware of any catchers using telepathy or of any successful examples of telepathy. I suspect they use pitchcom (eye roll). That you don’t know that catchers can communicate with the pitcher using pitchcom speaks volumes.
Which mlb catchers do and which don’t?
Have you been searching for catheters?
Contreras was wearing the pitchcom on his wrist today. You could see him tapping out pizza orders against the braves. Obviously not calling pitches.
Baseball isn’t for everyone.
But it used to be. Great family sport.
It still is as far as I’m concerned. But how would you know if you’ve watched fewer than a dozen innings in the last 24 years? Not all the rules are perfect. Not all of the rule changes are perfect. But everything needs to evolve, including the rules. This is what maintains the integrity of the sport.
Integrity was gone when the PEDS were ignored for a decade.
It was a game where you could escape the world for an afternoon. Forget the clock. The game is now a mechanism of corporate cannibalism. Fans are kept on a leash long enough to fund a new stadium.
PEDs were only a problem when the morality of the sheep changed with the wind. I’m sure a lot has changed in your time. The majority of fans obviously don’t think like you do or the sport wouldn’t be growing like it has been. There’s always pickleball. I hear it’s popular with old and young.
Congratulations on 1000 posts.
You can post a thousand more times to this thread and you will still be wrong.
Wrong about what? There's not much you say on here that makes any sense so I may have missed it. I have no aversion to being wrong, but I also am careful to not assert my opinion as fact. So point it out... if you can... I absolutely LOVE admitting when I'm wrong because it means I learned something.
"Its time for the ball/strike calls to be taken away from the home plate umpires."
You're obviously confused. That is the headline (topic) for this thread. I didn't say that, and I didn't even offer my opinion on it. I will wait for it to arrive in MLB, observe and consider, before I form an initial opinion. I would agree with what Mistlin said about it though with respect to 'favoring a true outcome'. That's not exactly what he said -- I am paraphrasing. I would like balls to be called balls and strikes to be called strikes by minimizing human error in the umpiring the game.
But, if I had an opinion on it... Let's say I prefer "robo umps" or "the challenge system". My reasoning could be flawed, but it would hardly be wrong by any measure. If you don't understand that I can't help you.
I doubt the home plate assigned umpires will ever be replaced by anything related to technology. Too many things happen at home plate to relegate them to a lesser role in their duties. Technology needs to stay away from home plate. IMO, the great majority of balls and strikes are called reasonably well. Do they miss some, yup, its part of the game. There are perhaps some umps that should be out of the home plate assignment for poor performance. Maybe the ability to challenge might be the better option as is done in other plays. The umpires union is a huge factor in any rule impacting their membership. Angel Hernandez is still there because (IMO) their protection.
And, I'm not a fan of the ghost runner in extra innings games. This rule deprives the fans of an exciting finish.
But Angel Hernandez isn’t there anymore.
Next. We are going to see a change in how pitches are called. It’s happening. It’s just not clear what it will be.
You might have a 2-3 month delay on your internet.
No one is suggesting removing the home plate umpire.
What needs to be done (and is long overdue) is removing their bias from calling balls and strikes. Anyone arguing for the continuation of a bad system is arguing for argument's sake.
The rulebook states explicitly what a strike is, yet we have been forced, for decades, to suffer through human bias adversely affecting the outcome of games.
The absolute BEST umpires today get about 95% calls correct. With an average of 270 pitches thrown in a 9-inning game, that means the BEST umpires are missing about 13 calls a game. The worst umpires (with an accuracy of about 92%) are missing over 20 calls a game.
Why anyone would accept that when technology exists to dramatically improve and standardize the strike zone to bring it in line with what the rule book explicitly states is absolutely clueless.
I do not have time for ignorant trolls.
ignore list: 1948_Swell_Robinson, Darin, bgr, bronco2078, dallasactuary
The history of the game? You mean the blatant racism that was allowed to exist for decades? Or was it the prevention of allowing players to play where they want via free agency?
The idea that you claim it was PED use in 1996 that drove you away reeks of revisionist history. I would at least have listened to you if you had said the owner-created work stoppage in 1994. But this excuse? You are a bald-faced liar.
I do not have time for ignorant trolls.
ignore list: 1948_Swell_Robinson, Darin, bgr, bronco2078, dallasactuary
Hernandez retried because of online criticism. As fans maybe we can get Diaz and Kulpa out too
Within the next 5 years balls and strikes will be called by hitracks or whatever they want to name their system. They;; probably leave the home plate umpire there as a formality and for the visual, but their most important role will just be throwing new balls to the pitcher.
The extra innings is a disgrace. Id rather see a tie than starting a guy on 2nd like its little league. At the very least at least wait until like the 14th inning instead of doing it right away
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
Its not quite that simple. Judge for instance has a different strike zone than Altuve and a system has to be adjustable in a split second with the 17 second pitch clock otherwise everyone will have the same zone. MLB has changed the definition of the zone at least 4 times over the years and the current one didnt come about until the mid 1990s
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
But it is that simple. The size of the strike zone varies from player to player, but the definition of the zone itself does not.
By the way, the mid 90s was 30 years ago.
The automated strike zone is coming, and it cannot get here quickly enough.
I do not have time for ignorant trolls.
ignore list: 1948_Swell_Robinson, Darin, bgr, bronco2078, dallasactuary
The definition of the zone has changed, at one point it was top of the knees to the arm pits not its middle of the chest which is a subjective term to the bottom of the knees also subjective. The automated zone will come MLB has already said that
The problem is that 17 second pitch clock batter has to be in the box within 8 seconds etc the technology needs to be there. Watch some of the videos from the minor league games. Anything going side to side or up or down will have more strikes called and people arent going to like strikes called that hit the dirt. The only thing worse than that will be the instances where tthere is no read on the pitch, then what?
The technology has to be ready. Theyve been testing it for years. Once its implemented theres no going back.
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
Have you given up trying to argue that catchers don't wear pitchcom devices and use them to signal pitches/locations to the pitcher? Zero Integrity.
@DocBenjamin You gave up like a fart in the night. Poof.
No im just ignoring you because pitches are called from the dugout from an ipad that gives the call to the pitchers catchers and some fielders
Catchers dont call pitches in high school, and they dont call them in college anymore either. They dont magically start calling them in MLB. Its nothing more than the electronic version of them looking to the dugout for the sign
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
And you have proof about this to dispute the catchers, managers, pitchers, and other individuals who speak in opposition of your statement, right? It's even been discussed on MLB network... with active players. Yet you seem to know the truth somehow and can dispute these accounts? ... I wonder if you even know north from south sometimes.
They dont speak in opposition of it. They literally brag about their technology and have the controllers and ipads leaning against the wall. But sure every time you see a catcher never move his hand but a signal appears im sure hes telepathically doing it I guess
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
Some catchers say they prefer calls from the dugout. With pitchcom it’s certainly possible. Also, and as you mention, some fielders have pitchcom receivers and they know what the pitch is for positioning. They can also get calls for pickoffs or step offs. But this isn’t the case for all catchers. Molina, who I admit is retired called every pitch according to him and his manager. Contreras also calls games when he’s behind the plate according to Murphy. Some catchers wear the pitchcom devices on their leg and some on their wrist. When you see them move their glove over their knee, for example, that’s what they’re interacting. I would hope this is well understood but you appear oblivious. I’m impressed.
In 2023 MLB expanded who can wear the devices and who can wear the receivers. Notably Scherzer and Ohtani were wearing it in 2023.
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/mlb/news/pitchcom-shohei-ohtani-mlb-pitchers-how-works/f2qioyl0y3vxpw85ujygjt3i
https://ftw.usatoday.com/lists/mlb-wristbands-catchers-signals-pitchcom-explained
https://www.mlb.com/news/mlb-pitchers-pitchcom-transmitters-2023-update?partnerID=mlbapp-iOS_article-share
https://www.si.com/mlb/2022/10/27/pitchcom-changing-how-pitchers-catchers-communicate
https://en.as.com/mlb/how-do-catchers-relay-signals-to-pitchers-how-does-pitchcom-work-n-4/
https://talkingpointssports.com/mlb/what-is-the-new-pitchcom-device-and-how-does-it-work/
To cover my bases here is an article on telepathy as we haven’t established you know what that is we might be talking about the same thing and you’re using the wrong term.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/debunking-myths-the-mind/201804/the-biology-telepathy
Here you go. Free education.
I only dispense wisdom. Arguing is for the weaker hands.
I never said it was every catcher. But you seem to just want to argue with anything I say so I just ignore incorrect statements from you
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
You said I was wrong about this topic.
I said that I haven’t even commented on what I thought and asked what I was wrong about.
You posted the topic headline.
Try being honest and accountable.
Every mention from you specifies that no catchers in MLB call pitches from behind the plate. Every one.
I have always said that many do and some don’t.
You want to be right so bad that you compound your error. No one would hold you in poor regard if you were occasionally incorrect. Now that you seem to completely agree with me we can move on.
Server error
Theres literally a post by me in this actual thread that didnt say that. Im going back to ignoring your incorrect information
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
Thank you. Now I get to model proper behavior.
You’re right. Half of your comments indicated that it’s all catchers and half specified it’s most don’t and some do.
It’s that easy. Here they are in all their glory.
Fiddy-fiddy is the best I can give thee.
The point is to get the calls right. I can live with the plate being like a box and the ball breaking in or out to make it a strike and if its a strike then good for the pitcher but if no part of the ball touches the plate then it should be called a ball. It will eliminate a lot of stress on everybody if the correct call is made ! Tell me what's wrong with that.
Also who cares who is sending the pitch to the pitcher. It does not matter at all.
you should be ejected from the forum for using italics
and did you actually type the word eyeroll ?
Gamblers and those with OCD demand accuracy beyond human ability.
To watch a 260 pound ump throw his arm in the air and yell "steeeerike" is worth a few missed calls.
imagine being so morally bankrupt that you bet on baseball
I worked in a casino too many years to waste my money gambling on anything. The odds are always against you.