An AG3 Spanish Trail

Barberian

The big Q: Is it authentic? The eBay seller (Edelman's) seems reputable. Amazing if real because these are very scarce in circulated condition with only a few certified. I'm skeptical but I'm now going to check it out.

braddick

Closed at $939.00
The seller did state within the description:

"This auction is for the Commemorative as seen in the pictures. This coin has been artificially worn, but is still genuine. It will most likely NOT grade at either service because of the altered surfaces".

Barberian

I talked to the seller (a lowball collector himself with a VF example). He claims the coin was originally in an ANACS holder as AG3, and then in a PCGS AG3 details holder. He's saying all the right things as someone who knows circulated commemoratives and how scarce this coin is in any circulated grade. It ain't cheap!

johnny9434

what a shame

Barberian

@braddick said:
Closed at $939.00
The seller did state within the description:

"This auction is for the Commemorative as seen in the pictures. This coin has been artificially worn, but is still genuine. It will most likely NOT grade at either service because of the altered surfaces".

I hadn't even seen that in the description. I quickly checked the serifs and the return policy and decided to hit the BIN. That is an outrageous price but this is very scarce to find in circulated condition.

braddick

@Barberian said:
I talked to the seller (a lowball collector himself with a VF example). He claims the coin was originally in an ANACS holder as AG3, and then in a PCGS AG3 details holder. He's saying all the right things as someone who knows circulated commemoratives and how scarce this coin is in any circulated grade. It ain't cheap!

It is odd he would tell you it was in an ANACS and subsequently in a PCGS problem-free slab and then write in the description it most likely will NOT grade at either service because of altered surfaces.

Either way, I think it is original looking and would slab out as an AG. And, you are right, those are about as rare as a hen's teeth in those ultra low grades.

MsMorrisine

maybe he was just trying to prevents a return with that description

or maybe as a lowball collector he realized later it shouldn't have been holdered to begin with

the color looks good, but I do wonder about the difference in wear on LIBERTY and the text above

Barberian

@braddick said:

@Barberian said:
I talked to the seller (a lowball collector himself with a VF example). He claims the coin was originally in an ANACS holder as AG3, and then in a PCGS AG3 details holder. He's saying all the right things as someone who knows circulated commemoratives and how scarce this coin is in any circulated grade. It ain't cheap!

It is odd he would tell you it was in an ANACS and subsequently in a PCGS problem-free slab and then write in the description it most likely will NOT grade at either service because of altered surfaces.

Either way, I think it is original looking and would slab out as an AG. And, you are right, those are about as rare as a hen's teeth in those ultra low grades.

In any circulated grade. PCGS has graded only 8 examples out of 3000+ graded coins.

Davidk7

Edelman's is a reputable shop in Pennsylvania. Andrew Edelman is probably who you spoke to and he is a prominent lowball collector. I've only briefly spoken to him once about a coin, so I don't know him well personally, but I have only heard good things about him. If that's what he told you, then he is speaking truthfully.

BillJones

I’m glad that I am not attracted to stuff like this at all. I can’t identify with chasing the worst known.

braddick

@BillJones said:
I’m glad that I am not attracted to stuff like this at all. I can’t identify with chasing the worst known.

Well. . . to be fair, it the "best of the worst."

Barberian

@BillJones said:
I’m glad that I am not attracted to stuff like this at all. I can’t identify with chasing the worst known.

I don't wish to either. I'd prefer XF or AU examples, but they are damn hard to find.

davewesen

@braddick said:

@Barberian said:
I talked to the seller (a lowball collector himself with a VF example). He claims the coin was originally in an ANACS holder as AG3, and then in a PCGS AG3 details holder. He's saying all the right things as someone who knows circulated commemoratives and how scarce this coin is in any circulated grade. It ain't cheap!

It is odd he would tell you it was in an ANACS and subsequently in a PCGS problem-free slab and then write in the description it most likely will NOT grade at either service because of altered surfaces.

Either way, I think it is original looking and would slab out as an AG. And, you are right, those are about as rare as a hen's teeth in those ultra low grades.

PCGS was a details he cracked out (if I read Barberians post correctly).

braddick

@davewesen said:

@braddick said:

@Barberian said:
I talked to the seller (a lowball collector himself with a VF example). He claims the coin was originally in an ANACS holder as AG3, and then in a PCGS AG3 details holder. He's saying all the right things as someone who knows circulated commemoratives and how scarce this coin is in any circulated grade. It ain't cheap!

It is odd he would tell you it was in an ANACS and subsequently in a PCGS problem-free slab and then write in the description it most likely will NOT grade at either service because of altered surfaces.

Either way, I think it is original looking and would slab out as an AG. And, you are right, those are about as rare as a hen's teeth in those ultra low grades.

PCGS was a details he cracked out (if I read Barberians post correctly).

Good catch!
I missed that.

Project Numismatics

Edelman’s is highly reputable and specializes in lowballs.

braddick

On the topic of unusual Lowball commemoratives, I always thought this one was strange and cool at the same time:
(not my coin.)

Colonialcoin

@BillJones said:
I’m glad that I am not attracted to stuff like this at all. I can’t identify with chasing the worst known.

I wholeheartedly agree. It makes no sense to me owning a disk when one can buy a choice AU or better for the same money.

Barberian

@Colonialcoin said:

@BillJones said:
I’m glad that I am not attracted to stuff like this at all. I can’t identify with chasing the worst known.

I wholeheartedly agree. It makes no sense to me owning a disk when one can buy a choice AU or better for the same money.

Find me a choice AU, please. It's not easy. I must admit, though, that this was an incredibly impulsive and financially foolish purchase. I was spooked by person having the coin in their eBay "shopping cart." I also blame the 'tyranny of album holes' and the opportunity to fill one.

davewesen

@Barberian said:
The big Q: Is it authentic? The eBay seller (Edelman's) seems reputable. Amazing if real because these are very scarce in circulated condition with only a few certified. I'm skeptical but I'm now going to check it out.

ask Edelman for the old PCGS cert number, there will probably be a picture. If there is you know it is authentic as they will not pic counterfeit or questionable authenticity.

Barberian

@braddick said:

@BillJones said:
I’m glad that I am not attracted to stuff like this at all. I can’t identify with chasing the worst known.

Well. . . to be fair, it the "best of the worst."

It's simply the worst.

lermish

@davewesen said:

@Barberian said:
The big Q: Is it authentic? The eBay seller (Edelman's) seems reputable. Amazing if real because these are very scarce in circulated condition with only a few certified. I'm skeptical but I'm now going to check it out.

ask Edelman for the old PCGS cert number, there will probably be a picture. If there is you know it is authentic as they will not pic counterfeit or questionable authenticity.

Usually.

Barberian

I'll check on cert numbers with Mr. Edelman. I did not give this much thought after checking for proper serifs on the coin. I thought the coin might disappear on me while researching it (happened before with a rare die marriage). I figured I have 30 days to figure out if it's authentic and examine what's going on with the surfaces. The seller seemed legit, and when I talked to him over the phone, I felt he gave an honest, straight-forward description of the coin and its past grading history. He knew the coin well and informed me he collects circulated and lowball commemoratives (I'm circulated but not lowball).

I'll ask for possible cert numbers. The description in the auction and posters' comments about the seller are encouraging. If he sells circulated commemoratives, then I likely purchased coins from them, and he might help me find those last few coins.

I'm close to finishing two collections that have taken me many years so far to complete and I'm becoming quick on the trigger on the last tough coins I have to find.

BillJones

@braddick said:
On the topic of unusual Lowball commemoratives, I always thought this one was strange and cool at the same time:
(not my coin.)

That appears to be over graded. The strength of the words “HALF DOLLAR” makes me suspect that the wear is not natural.

johnny010

@braddick said:
Closed at $939.00
The seller did state within the description:

"This auction is for the Commemorative as seen in the pictures. This coin has been artificially worn, but is still genuine. It will most likely NOT grade at either service because of the altered surfaces".

If artificially worn, is it still desirable since at least some if not all circulation was manipulated?

Barberian

I also have to find out what "artificially worn" means for this coin. I see surface corrosion as if it may have been buried.

PerryHall

@Barberian said:
I also have to find out what "artificially warn" means for this coin.

I think he meant "artificially worn". I believe this is called a "typographical error" or "typo" unless it's a grading company in which case it's called a "mechanical error".

Namvet69

Could the phrase mean it was a pocket piece? How would anyone know?

291fifth

Since good quality fakes of that issue have been around for decades I have to wonder if it is even a genuine coin. Is it possible that a fake was deliberately worn down in an attempt to pass it off as real to a "lowball coin" collector? I'm no expert in regards to that issue so hopefully someone who is will be able to confirm that the piece is a genuine coin.

Barberian

@291fifth said:
Since good quality fakes of that issue have been around for decades I have to wonder if it is even a genuine coin. Is it possible that a fake was deliberately worn down in an attempt to pass it off as real to a "lowball coin" collector? I'm no expert in regards to that issue so hopefully someone who is will be able to confirm that the piece is a genuine coin.

That's possible. The coin does not resemble the common fake STs that I see on eBay, I need to scrutinize it under a scope, ring test it, etc., before I decide what to do with it.

pocketpiececommems

Congratulations to the new owner. It may not have straight graded at PCGS but it is still an interesting coin I debated on it numerous days just to have it in my circ commem album. I would love to have one for my holed album too.

pocketpiececommems

Got a second chance. It has a home in my circ album. Thanks AE. Now for a holed one

NeophyteNumismatist

Andrew Edelman is a lowball collector who calls his collection the "Un-finest Known" he has put together registry sets for Type and Commems. He is a 3rd generation coin dealer, and his shop has been in the Philadelphia areas since 1926 (in the same family).

I cannot say whether the coin is real, but I do know this is where he specializes... and the shop is very reputable.

NeophyteNumismatist

Link to a Coin World podcast with Andrew on Lowballs:

https://www.coinworld.com/news/us-coins/cwpod_ep119

braddick

@NeophyteNumismatist said:
Link to a Coin World podcast with Andrew on Lowballs:

https://www.coinworld.com/news/us-coins/cwpod_ep119

Neat podcast. It is 47 minutes long and the discussion on Lowball coins doesn't really kick in until the 33:00 mark.

pocketpiececommems

Andrew is a great Dealer/Collectot to do business with

Barberian

@pocketpiececommems said:

Got a second chance. It has a home in my circ album. Thanks AE. Now for a holed one

Glad you're happy with it. It had way too much mutilation and corrosion for the price for my tastes. I thought I saw Grand Mesa from the corrosion on the reverse. I wish to work with Mr. Edelman in the future, but that coin was too rough. I'm interested in nice looking circulated commemoratives in any grade, but not low-ball junk.

Barberian

@pocketpiececommems said:
Congratulations to the new owner. It may not have straight graded at PCGS but it is still an interesting coin I debated on it numerous days just to have it in my circ commem album. I would love to have one for my holed album too.

Congrats to you! I'm pleased to see it again so quickly and that it went to someone who really wanted it. I see you're missing the Cincinnati like I am. I missed the close of an auction recently for a nice one. If it wasn't for missed auctions by minutes, my circulated classic commemoratives set would be complete.

sellitstore

@braddick said:
On the topic of unusual Lowball commemoratives, I always thought this one was strange and cool at the same time:
(not my coin.)

I'd crack it out and try NGC for a (down)grade. It looks AG or G to me.

Cougar1978

I don’t see what they see in those - G04 lowest I would have.

My normal cruising altitude MS64 and s as November.

PeakRarities

@davewesen said:

@braddick said:

@Barberian said:
I talked to the seller (a lowball collector himself with a VF example). He claims the coin was originally in an ANACS holder as AG3, and then in a PCGS AG3 details holder. He's saying all the right things as someone who knows circulated commemoratives and how scarce this coin is in any circulated grade. It ain't cheap!

It is odd he would tell you it was in an ANACS and subsequently in a PCGS problem-free slab and then write in the description it most likely will NOT grade at either service because of altered surfaces.

Either way, I think it is original looking and would slab out as an AG. And, you are right, those are about as rare as a hen's teeth in those ultra low grades.

PCGS was a details he cracked out (if I read Barberians post correctly).

Right, that’s how I interpreted it as well. I suspect that someone worked the surfaces to try to turn it into a PO 1 at some point in time. ANACS called the coin an AG 3, but it did not get by PCGS, who called it AG details.