Counterfeit Coin slipped through the cracks?
Crypto
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For someone with contacts at Stacks please notify them/PCGS this coin is bogus. Surprised no one noticed it even though the the graders knew something was off. Not even a good counterfeit. I suppose if it was a vg and completely worked over it could be on a genuine slug but some of the tells I look for such as the relief of the e pluribus unum scroll and denticals appear all wrong too. Most likely a reworked coin into a transfer die.
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That's funny, @OriginalDan and @ChopmarkedTrades and I were just discussing this earlier. I emailed a contact at SB a couple hours ago, I would assume it gets taken down tomorrow.
And you're working too hard by the way! The mostly type 2 reverse did it for me😂
Not sure if the AT adds credence to the heavily tooled theory or counterfeit suggestions.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Well it’s not really a type 2 Rev if you look closely. The Berry has just been removed either on the coin or the transfer host.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
I didn't see any tooling or anything there but that's certainly not conclusive. What about the type 2 eagle feathers?
It's like a weird mish mosh. All sorts of junk going on.
@lermish def a type 1 rev hub that’s been altered. Note the arrow over the 0, eagle’s leg feather, leaves over Fine. Here is a type one on a real 74p and a type 2. 95% of the details align with type 1
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Unpopular opinion:
I kinda like it.
peacockcoins
Of course you do, you’re the king of unpopular/esoteric issues lol 😂.
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I'm curious why you even looked at this detailed coin to see that it was a counterfeit. It's not like it was a rare or high priced coin
Nice find!
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
I look at all trades to see the die marriage. All coins really, when I look at a coin I look at a coin. I enjoy all coins and study them.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
out of curiosity, is there a good online reference for trade dollar die varieties and marriages?
http://registry.ssdcvams.com/Trade/
Talking to a friend he stated it might be a training piece for a coin doctor to practice on with moving metal and smoothing surfaces and applying patinas.
While I can’t rule that out without in hand , the other tells still say fake to these eyes.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Lot has been withdrawn
Great post; listing was withdrawn...
Great info and good catch John.
Nice work, trade dollar detectives!
Credit where credit is due. 👍🏻
Having fun while switching things up and focusing on a next level PCGS slabbed 1950+ type set, while still looking for great examples for the 7070.
Good job @Crypto
I woukd not have noticed, but then not a coin I hold with interest.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Maybe it is a vintage counterfeit.
Good job spotting that one, John. the hollowed dentils between stars 12&13 gave it away for me; typical of a not so great transfer die forgery.
great observation and detective work @Crypto - you saved someone from a mistake - and I learned a lot about trade dollars from the information in this thread, thanks!
Anyone know if PCGS is aware and doing anything with this?
Did a comparison to the image posted here:
Cert is still active: https://www.pcgs.com/cert/49208288
Incomplete wheat stalks on obverse are the tell for me.
Certainly not a real US Dollar.
bob
Interesting point about the NFC chip.
Apparently, at least one 'auction house' is not availing themselves of this technology for authentication purposes. If they had, this item, presumably, would never had been listed.
RETRACTED:
I misunderstood the information presented in this thread.
Based on my current understanding, this is a counterfeit coin that PCGS incorrectly authenticated. Accordingly, a scan of the NFC chip would not have been helpful.
The trueveiw with the slab makes me feel certified in a foreign office.
Curious how that would have prevented it?
Maybe I misinterpreted your last post (i.e., the one with the comparison images).
I THOUGHT it was designed to show that the coin the in SB image did not 'match' the coin in the PCGS cert verification image. Based on this, I concluded that the SB holder was likely counterfeit, and that the NFC chip would not scan correctly.
Edited to Add:
Just realized that the PCGS cert image in your prior post is not for this specific coin. So, you were NOT suggesting that the holder was counterfeit. Rather, you were contrasting the difference between the counterfeit and a real example. And, then asking why a likely counterfeit in a legitimate PCGS holder still has an active cert number a month after being flagged.
I apologize for the misunderstanding.
You are right, of course. The NFC chip would not have helpful in this situation. And, it is quite possible that SB did scan the chip.
Curiously, what does pcgs do regarding their guarantee on detailed coins? Is it just a random guess at a value for this coin, like $100, or is there a formula for determining a payout for dreck?
Can’t say I remember seeing a counterfeit coin in a details holder before.
@PCGS_Moderator: please note the coin here identified as a counterfeit is still showing up as genuine. Not sure who to tag but if you inform me, I'll make a note for future reference!
New website: Groovycoins.com Capped Bust Half Dime registry set: Bikergeek CBHD LM Set
I have seen several...
In my experience the guarantee value is the invoice price the buyer paid for the slabbed "coin".
My contact stated it was submitted at the Hong Kong show and graded locally there...