There are thousands of these type of listings on eBay. I think it's a blend of people who know nothing about coins and some scammers fishing for a sucker. The uneducated see these listing and think their close to worthless culls are worth ridiculous sums because others are listed on eBay in the same poor condition for moon money. Ignorance is bliss.
Do us all a favor and post a good deal next time so I can buy it:)
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
BHNC #AN-10
JRCS #1606
I've never seen one of these with a bid. If they don't sell, ebay makes no money. I would think ebay would be better off charging a modest listing fee.
DPOTD-3 'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'
@ajaan said:
I've never seen one of these with a bid. If they don't sell, ebay makes no money. I would think ebay would be better off charging a modest listing fee.
I've been saying that for years. There is no downside to these idiots. If they went back to charging a listing fee this might slow them down a bit.
@ajaan said:
I've never seen one of these with a bid. If they don't sell, ebay makes no money. I would think ebay would be better off charging a modest listing fee.
Young Numismatist • My Toned Coins
Life is roadblocks. Don't let nothing stop you, 'cause we ain't stopping. - DJ Khaled
I have long suspected that some of these absurd listings for pocket change or current circulated banknotes that get bids are actually examples of money laundering.
I have long suspected that some of these absurd listings for pocket change or current circulated banknotes that get bids are actually examples of money laundering.
And how would that work? They're is no way to pay for them with dirty money.
And you'd actually have to make the sale. 99% of this never result in a sale.
You could use this to transfer money to an illicit person or organization. But is that "money laundering"? And wouldn't it be easier and more secretive to do it directly in crypto or small venmo payments? EBay transactions are publicly visible.
I have long suspected that some of these absurd listings for pocket change or current circulated banknotes that get bids are actually examples of money laundering.
And how would that work? They're is no way to pay for them with dirty money.
And you'd actually have to make the sale. 99% of this never result in a sale.
You could use this to transfer money to an illicit person or organization. But is that "money laundering"? And wouldn't it be easier and more secretive to do it directly in crypto or small venmo payments? EBay transactions are publicly visible.
Doesn't ebay also do 1099's with sellers now also?
I have long suspected that some of these absurd listings for pocket change or current circulated banknotes that get bids are actually examples of money laundering.
And how would that work? They're is no way to pay for them with dirty money.
And you'd actually have to make the sale. 99% of this never result in a sale.
You could use this to transfer money to an illicit person or organization. But is that "money laundering"? And wouldn't it be easier and more secretive to do it directly in crypto or small venmo payments? EBay transactions are publicly visible.
Doesn't ebay also do 1099's with sellers now also?
Yes. That's why I don't understand the "laundering" suggestion. There's too many records of the transaction.
I sell a bunch of dope and make a lot of cash. I want to buy a Supra. That money must be legal. I give my girlfriends money and they buy rummage from me on eBay. I pay fees and taxes; now, the money is legal. I lost a percentage, that’s a cost. Subtlety helps.
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
Dantheman984 Toyz4geo
@Creg said:
I sell a bunch of dope and make a lot of cash. I want to buy a Supra. That money must be legal. I give my girlfriends money and they buy rummage from me on eBay. I pay fees and taxes; now, the money is legal. I lost a percentage, that’s a cost. Subtlety helps.
Except in order for your GFs to spend the money, they have to launder it FIRST. You can't pay with cash on eBay.
And once your GFs have put the cash in a bank or on a credit card or whatever, they could just venmo cash to you.
What is the point of doing a public transaction with already laundered money?
@Creg said:
I sell a bunch of dope and make a lot of cash. I want to buy a Supra. That money must be legal. I give my girlfriends money and they buy rummage from me on eBay. I pay fees and taxes; now, the money is legal. I lost a percentage, that’s a cost. Subtlety helps.
Except in order for your GFs to spend the money, they have to laundering it FIRST. You can't pay with cash on eBay.
And once your GFs have put the cash in a bank or on a credit card or whatever, they could just venmo cash to you.
What is the point of doing a public transaction with already laundered money?
I believe that he is not referring to himself in this instance, but to a hypothetical figment of his imagination. This hypothetical figment is apparently quite the despicable person.
God Bless, CRHer700
Do unto others what you expect to be done to you.
Dubbed a "Committee Secret Agent" by @mr1931S on 7/23/24
@Creg said:
I sell a bunch of dope and make a lot of cash. I want to buy a Supra. That money must be legal. I give my girlfriends money and they buy rummage from me on eBay. I pay fees and taxes; now, the money is legal. I lost a percentage, that’s a cost. Subtlety helps.
Except in order for your GFs to spend the money, they have to laundering it FIRST. You can't pay with cash on eBay.
And once your GFs have put the cash in a bank or on a credit card or whatever, they could just venmo cash to you.
What is the point of doing a public transaction with already laundered money?
I believe that he is not referring to himself in this instance, but to a hypothetical figment of his imagination. This hypothetical figment is apparently quite the despicable person.
Lol. Yes, I know. But I still don't understand the alleged "laundering ".
Is there any way to determine the number of returns/cancelled orders for these particular auctions? Not ebay savy. @jmlanzaf Also not fluent with laundering methods, so pardon the reference.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
@jesbroken said:
Is there any way to determine the number of returns/cancelled orders for these particular auctions? Not ebay savy. @jmlanzaf Also not fluent with laundering methods, so pardon the reference.
Jim
I'm not criticizing anyone. I just don't understand how it would work.
You can't see returns or cancelations for other people.
@Creg said:
I sell a bunch of dope and make a lot of cash. I want to buy a Supra. That money must be legal. I give my girlfriends money and they buy rummage from me on eBay. I pay fees and taxes; now, the money is legal. I lost a percentage, that’s a cost. Subtlety helps.
Except in order for your GFs to spend the money, they have to launder it FIRST. You can't pay with cash on eBay.
And once your GFs have put the cash in a bank or on a credit card or whatever, they could just venmo cash to you.
What is the point of doing a public transaction with already laundered money?
I work in an industry where money laundering is a major threat and we get annual training on it.
Ebay offers perfect opportunities for ML.
The IRS/govt is not tracking the spending of buyers on ebay. It's tracking the income of sellers. (1099 forms).
A seller takes in money from a series of transactions and pays taxes on that. The money is now legal. They "earned" it and they paid taxes on it.
The item just has to get paid for. The buyer and seller are in cahoots. Heck maybe they're even the same person.
All ML involves illegal money entering the legal flow, where it gets accounted for as a supposedly legitimate transaction. Where the buyer got the money from is usually not the focus, or at least can be easily concealed with prepaid debit cards, etc. used for relatively small transactions.
A retail storefront, an eBay listing, income from a phony job - it all allows money to be laundered. Yes, there are costs associated with the laundering, but that's the price of getting the money clean.
@Creg said:
I sell a bunch of dope and make a lot of cash. I want to buy a Supra. That money must be legal. I give my girlfriends money and they buy rummage from me on eBay. I pay fees and taxes; now, the money is legal. I lost a percentage, that’s a cost. Subtlety helps.
Except in order for your GFs to spend the money, they have to launder it FIRST. You can't pay with cash on eBay.
And once your GFs have put the cash in a bank or on a credit card or whatever, they could just venmo cash to you.
What is the point of doing a public transaction with already laundered money?
I work in an industry where money laundering is a major threat and we get annual training on it.
Ebay offers perfect opportunities for ML.
The IRS/govt is not tracking the spending of buyers on ebay. It's tracking the income of sellers. (1099 forms).
A seller takes in money from a series of transactions and pays taxes on that. The money is now legal. They "earned" it and they paid taxes on it.
The item just has to get paid for. The buyer and seller are in cahoots. Heck maybe they're even the same person.
All ML involves illegal money entering the legal flow, where it gets accounted for as a supposedly legitimate transaction. Where the buyer got the money from is usually not the focus, or at least can be easily concealed with prepaid debit cards, etc. used for relatively small transactions.
A retail storefront, an eBay listing, income from a phony job - it all allows money to be laundered. Yes, there are costs associated with the laundering, but that's the price of getting the money clean.
But don't you see my point? The buyer is the one laundering it. And once they've laundered it, there are many less public ways of getting it to the seller (crypto or venmo or zelle etc). There is no need for an eBay sale.
I've also never seen one of these sellers with multiple sales. So if you are laundering any significant amount of money, you would have to be doing it through multiple accounts.
I can think of a dozen easier and less visible ways of doing it. And I'm not exactly a criminal mastermind.
@Creg said:
I sell a bunch of dope and make a lot of cash. I want to buy a Supra. That money must be legal. I give my girlfriends money and they buy rummage from me on eBay. I pay fees and taxes; now, the money is legal. I lost a percentage, that’s a cost. Subtlety helps.
Except in order for your GFs to spend the money, they have to launder it FIRST. You can't pay with cash on eBay.
What is the point of doing a public transaction with already laundered money?
I pay eBay, IRS, and my friends to launder it.
I give them the cash for raking my yard. They pay with C.C.
Recorded through eBay transaction,
Recorded through taxes.
Laundering likes layering
But don't you see my point? The buyer is the one laundering it. And once they've laundered it, there are many less public ways of getting it to the seller (crypto or venmo or zelle etc). There is no need for an eBay sale.
I've also never seen one of these sellers with multiple sales. So if you are laundering any significant amount of money, you would have to be doing it through multiple accounts.
I found a guy with thirty pages of one-bid sales at inflated prices.
I can think of a dozen easier and less visible ways of doing it. And I'm not exactly a criminal mastermind
For instance, how would you hide moonshine profits?
The buyer is laundering my money for me. I do not have to give him the lawn tractor he bought for five times the value. I give him his cut. I can’t launder my own money.
An investigation could find the inconsistencies, but until the problem is large, no one has the time to investigate the eBay sewers. It’s a good place to hide.
@Creg said:
I sell a bunch of dope and make a lot of cash. I want to buy a Supra. That money must be legal. I give my girlfriends money and they buy rummage from me on eBay. I pay fees and taxes; now, the money is legal. I lost a percentage, that’s a cost. Subtlety helps.
Except in order for your GFs to spend the money, they have to launder it FIRST. You can't pay with cash on eBay.
And once your GFs have put the cash in a bank or on a credit card or whatever, they could just venmo cash to you.
What is the point of doing a public transaction with already laundered money?
I work in an industry where money laundering is a major threat and we get annual training on it.
Ebay offers perfect opportunities for ML.
The IRS/govt is not tracking the spending of buyers on ebay. It's tracking the income of sellers. (1099 forms).
A seller takes in money from a series of transactions and pays taxes on that. The money is now legal. They "earned" it and they paid taxes on it.
The item just has to get paid for. The buyer and seller are in cahoots. Heck maybe they're even the same person.
All ML involves illegal money entering the legal flow, where it gets accounted for as a supposedly legitimate transaction. Where the buyer got the money from is usually not the focus, or at least can be easily concealed with prepaid debit cards, etc. used for relatively small transactions.
A retail storefront, an eBay listing, income from a phony job - it all allows money to be laundered. Yes, there are costs associated with the laundering, but that's the price of getting the money clean.
But don't you see my point? The buyer is the one laundering it. And once they've laundered it, there are many less public ways of getting it to the seller(crypto or venmo or zelle etc). There is no need for an eBay sale.
But don't you see my point? The buyer and seller are working together and might even be the same person. For example, the the seller might be giving the buyer the dirty money in cash to use for payment.
And it is not about finding less public ways of transferring the money - it's about finding more public ways of doing that.
A person can't just put $50,000 dollars on their tax form as miscellaneous income and expect to be safe from government scrutiny. But, they can run a "successful" eBay business where they have $50,000 in profits from many (relatively) small transactions. They happily pay their taxes (you of all people should appreciate that) and the money is now laundered.
There are lots of ways to launder money. EBay could be just one of them.
Looking at some of these eBay listing, I think I have a chance to become a Power Seller!
Thanksgiving National Battlefield Coin Show is November 29-30, 2024 at the Eisenhower Allstar Sportsplex, Gettysburg, PA. Tables are available. WWW.AmericasCoinShows.com
@Creg said:
I sell a bunch of dope and make a lot of cash. I want to buy a Supra. That money must be legal. I give my girlfriends money and they buy rummage from me on eBay. I pay fees and taxes; now, the money is legal. I lost a percentage, that’s a cost. Subtlety helps.
Except in order for your GFs to spend the money, they have to launder it FIRST. You can't pay with cash on eBay.
And once your GFs have put the cash in a bank or on a credit card or whatever, they could just venmo cash to you.
What is the point of doing a public transaction with already laundered money?
I work in an industry where money laundering is a major threat and we get annual training on it.
Ebay offers perfect opportunities for ML.
The IRS/govt is not tracking the spending of buyers on ebay. It's tracking the income of sellers. (1099 forms).
A seller takes in money from a series of transactions and pays taxes on that. The money is now legal. They "earned" it and they paid taxes on it.
The item just has to get paid for. The buyer and seller are in cahoots. Heck maybe they're even the same person.
All ML involves illegal money entering the legal flow, where it gets accounted for as a supposedly legitimate transaction. Where the buyer got the money from is usually not the focus, or at least can be easily concealed with prepaid debit cards, etc. used for relatively small transactions.
A retail storefront, an eBay listing, income from a phony job - it all allows money to be laundered. Yes, there are costs associated with the laundering, but that's the price of getting the money clean.
But don't you see my point? The buyer is the one laundering it. And once they've laundered it, there are many less public ways of getting it to the seller(crypto or venmo or zelle etc). There is no need for an eBay sale.
But don't you see my point? The buyer and seller are working together and might even be the same person. For exampke, the the seller might be giving the buyer the dirty money in cash to use for payment.
And it is not about finding less public ways of transferring the money - it's about finding more public ways of doing that.
A person can't just put $50,000 dollars on their tax form as miscellaneous income and expect to be safe from government scrutiny. But, they can run a "successful" eBay business where they have $50,000 in profits from many (relatively) small transactions. They happily pay their taxes (you of all people should appreciate that) and the money is now laundered.
There are lots of ways to launder money. EBay could be just one of them.
Yes. I get that. But it really violates the normal precepts of laundering CASH. If the illegal funds are already digital, I suppose that works. I guess I'm hung up on the idea that the illegal proceeds are cash. With cash you still have the problem of the buyer(s) depositing good of cash. The usual strategy was to run the cash through a cash business to inflate receipts.
So I presume we're laundering digital dirty money?
I also don't see why I want a public record that law enforcement can see. While you want legal (reported) transactions, why do I want it in a publicly searchable database?
And why not create less suspicious activity by "selling" properly priced luxury goods?
@Creg said:
I sell a bunch of dope and make a lot of cash. I want to buy a Supra. That money must be legal. I give my girlfriends money and they buy rummage from me on eBay. I pay fees and taxes; now, the money is legal. I lost a percentage, that’s a cost. Subtlety helps.
Except in order for your GFs to spend the money, they have to launder it FIRST. You can't pay with cash on eBay.
And once your GFs have put the cash in a bank or on a credit card or whatever, they could just venmo cash to you.
What is the point of doing a public transaction with already laundered money?
I work in an industry where money laundering is a major threat and we get annual training on it.
Ebay offers perfect opportunities for ML.
The IRS/govt is not tracking the spending of buyers on ebay. It's tracking the income of sellers. (1099 forms).
A seller takes in money from a series of transactions and pays taxes on that. The money is now legal. They "earned" it and they paid taxes on it.
The item just has to get paid for. The buyer and seller are in cahoots. Heck maybe they're even the same person.
All ML involves illegal money entering the legal flow, where it gets accounted for as a supposedly legitimate transaction. Where the buyer got the money from is usually not the focus, or at least can be easily concealed with prepaid debit cards, etc. used for relatively small transactions.
A retail storefront, an eBay listing, income from a phony job - it all allows money to be laundered. Yes, there are costs associated with the laundering, but that's the price of getting the money clean.
But don't you see my point? The buyer is the one laundering it. And once they've laundered it, there are many less public ways of getting it to the seller(crypto or venmo or zelle etc). There is no need for an eBay sale.
But don't you see my point? The buyer and seller are working together and might even be the same person. For exampke, the the seller might be giving the buyer the dirty money in cash to use for payment.
And it is not about finding less public ways of transferring the money - it's about finding more public ways of doing that.
A person can't just put $50,000 dollars on their tax form as miscellaneous income and expect to be safe from government scrutiny. But, they can run a "successful" eBay business where they have $50,000 in profits from many (relatively) small transactions. They happily pay their taxes (you of all people should appreciate that) and the money is now laundered.
There are lots of ways to launder money. EBay could be just one of them.
Yes. I get that. But it really violates the normal precepts of laundering CASH. If the illegal funds are already digital, I suppose that works. I guess I'm hung up on the idea that the illegal proceeds are cash. With cash you still have the problem of the buyer(s) depositing good of cash. The usual strategy was to run the cash through a cash business to inflate receipts.
So I presume we're laundering digital dirty money?
Not necessarily. A drug dealer sells $100 worth of drugs, goes into the convenience store and buys a prepaid debit/credit card, uses that card to buy nonsense on ebay from a friend (or himself).
I also don't see why I want a public record that law enforcement can see. While you want legal (reported) transactions, why do I want it in a publicly searchable database?
Ebay is just one potential outlet. And it may not be the best one. It might be a brilliant idea, a terrible idea, or something in between. Look at who we're dealing with here.
And why not create less suspicious activity by "selling" properly priced luxury goods?
And where did you get the money to buy your inventory of luxury goods? 🤔
I would think if a seller paid cash for a group of coins with laundry money, then set up several different ID's on ebay, then
sell the coin at a lower than average price to ensure immediate sale. They would then have laundered the money and the many different seller ID's would keep the total yearly amount low enough to stay below the IRS 1099 amounts. I'm sure there would be problems, but it is possible.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
@jmlanzaf said:
And why not create less suspicious activity by "selling" properly priced luxury goods?
Why not? Seller sends buyer a $1250.00 box of Kleen-ex who PayPals the seller the cash that the seller gave the buyer.—positive feedback guaranteed. Multiply that.
@Creg said:
I sell a bunch of dope and make a lot of cash. I want to buy a Supra. That money must be legal. I give my girlfriends money and they buy rummage from me on eBay. I pay fees and taxes; now, the money is legal. I lost a percentage, that’s a cost. Subtlety helps.
Except in order for your GFs to spend the money, they have to launder it FIRST. You can't pay with cash on eBay.
And once your GFs have put the cash in a bank or on a credit card or whatever, they could just venmo cash to you.
What is the point of doing a public transaction with already laundered money?
I work in an industry where money laundering is a major threat and we get annual training on it.
Ebay offers perfect opportunities for ML.
The IRS/govt is not tracking the spending of buyers on ebay. It's tracking the income of sellers. (1099 forms).
A seller takes in money from a series of transactions and pays taxes on that. The money is now legal. They "earned" it and they paid taxes on it.
The item just has to get paid for. The buyer and seller are in cahoots. Heck maybe they're even the same person.
All ML involves illegal money entering the legal flow, where it gets accounted for as a supposedly legitimate transaction. Where the buyer got the money from is usually not the focus, or at least can be easily concealed with prepaid debit cards, etc. used for relatively small transactions.
A retail storefront, an eBay listing, income from a phony job - it all allows money to be laundered. Yes, there are costs associated with the laundering, but that's the price of getting the money clean.
But don't you see my point? The buyer is the one laundering it. And once they've laundered it, there are many less public ways of getting it to the seller(crypto or venmo or zelle etc). There is no need for an eBay sale.
But don't you see my point? The buyer and seller are working together and might even be the same person. For exampke, the the seller might be giving the buyer the dirty money in cash to use for payment.
And it is not about finding less public ways of transferring the money - it's about finding more public ways of doing that.
A person can't just put $50,000 dollars on their tax form as miscellaneous income and expect to be safe from government scrutiny. But, they can run a "successful" eBay business where they have $50,000 in profits from many (relatively) small transactions. They happily pay their taxes (you of all people should appreciate that) and the money is now laundered.
There are lots of ways to launder money. EBay could be just one of them.
Yes. I get that. But it really violates the normal precepts of laundering CASH. If the illegal funds are already digital, I suppose that works. I guess I'm hung up on the idea that the illegal proceeds are cash. With cash you still have the problem of the buyer(s) depositing good of cash. The usual strategy was to run the cash through a cash business to inflate receipts.
So I presume we're laundering digital dirty money?
Not necessarily. A drug dealer sells $100 worth of drugs, goes into the convenience store and buys a prepaid debit/credit card, uses that card to buy nonsense on ebay from a friend (or himself).
I also don't see why I want a public record that law enforcement can see. While you want legal (reported) transactions, why do I want it in a publicly searchable database?
Ebay is just one potential outlet. And it may not be the best one. It might be a brilliant idea, a terrible idea, or something in between. Look at who we're dealing with here.
And why not create less suspicious activity by "selling" properly priced luxury goods?
And where did you get the money to buy your inventory of luxury goods? 🤔
Do they have to be real goods? You're collaborator isn't going to complain. > @Creg said:
@jmlanzaf said:
And why not create less suspicious activity by "selling" properly priced luxury goods?
Why not? Seller sends buyer a $1250.00 box of Kleen-ex who PayPals the seller the cash that the seller gave the buyer.—positive feedback guaranteed. Multiply that.
Exactly. Although they probably need to show a purchase of the goods to justify it. But they can make fake buys from another compatriot.
It was a lot easier when you would just run the cash through a till in a bar. Doing it publicly with actual goods makes it more complicated methinks.
@jmlanzaf said:
It was a lot easier when you would just run the cash through a till in a bar. Doing it publicly with actual > > goods makes it more complicated methinks.
Digital transfers and digital currency inserts itself now, and some things are easier too.
Lostintranslation
Posts: 133 ✭✭✭
Comments
Be sure to check out their other items.
New sellers think that Ebay buyers are dumb, but those moonshot listings always fail.
There are thousands of these type of listings on eBay. I think it's a blend of people who know nothing about coins and some scammers fishing for a sucker. The uneducated see these listing and think their close to worthless culls are worth ridiculous sums because others are listed on eBay in the same poor condition for moon money. Ignorance is bliss.
In my opinion these are unsupervised kids trying to make a fast buck off stupid people.
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
Do us all a favor and post a good deal next time so I can buy it:)
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
BHNC #AN-10
JRCS #1606
"Are so many this dumb" Yes they are!
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Money Laundering? 🧐
If they actually ever sell, I’d suspect that.
Mr_Spud
I've never seen one of these with a bid. If they don't sell, ebay makes no money. I would think ebay would be better off charging a modest listing fee.
DPOTD-3
'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'
CU #3245 B.N.A. #428
Don
I've been saying that for years. There is no downside to these idiots. If they went back to charging a listing fee this might slow them down a bit.
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
Young Numismatist • My Toned Coins
Life is roadblocks. Don't let nothing stop you, 'cause we ain't stopping. - DJ Khaled
Don't worry, there's plenty of stupidity to go around. This was all just from an hour of scrolling.
Young Numismatist • My Toned Coins
Life is roadblocks. Don't let nothing stop you, 'cause we ain't stopping. - DJ Khaled
WOW, there are a lot of idiots out there.................geeezzzz
No wonder why ebay doesn't want to do anything
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
The ebay reps aren't any smarter than the buyers or sellers... that's why they don't do anything.
I wonder how many of these sellers actually got paid.
DPOTD-3
'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'
CU #3245 B.N.A. #428
Don
Stupid is....
I have long suspected that some of these absurd listings for pocket change or current circulated banknotes that get bids are actually examples of money laundering.
And how would that work? They're is no way to pay for them with dirty money.
And you'd actually have to make the sale. 99% of this never result in a sale.
You could use this to transfer money to an illicit person or organization. But is that "money laundering"? And wouldn't it be easier and more secretive to do it directly in crypto or small venmo payments? EBay transactions are publicly visible.
Doesn't ebay also do 1099's with sellers now also?
My Original Song Written to my late wife-"Plus other original music by me"
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8A11CC8CC6093D80
https://n1m.com/bobbysmith1
It's the ultimate rarity. Precious few coins were minted w/o a date.
Yes. That's why I don't understand the "laundering" suggestion. There's too many records of the transaction.
I sell a bunch of dope and make a lot of cash. I want to buy a Supra. That money must be legal. I give my girlfriends money and they buy rummage from me on eBay. I pay fees and taxes; now, the money is legal. I lost a percentage, that’s a cost. Subtlety helps.
It doesn't really bother me. I just ignore it.
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
Dantheman984 Toyz4geo
Don't forget the idiot who has been selling a "rear error of Dr. Sally Ride" for $40k for months. That comes and goes, sometimes it's $2,000.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Hard to believe but with the number of "no cent" auctions and so many sold, unreal. More to it, I believe.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Except in order for your GFs to spend the money, they have to launder it FIRST. You can't pay with cash on eBay.
And once your GFs have put the cash in a bank or on a credit card or whatever, they could just venmo cash to you.
What is the point of doing a public transaction with already laundered money?
I believe that he is not referring to himself in this instance, but to a hypothetical figment of his imagination. This hypothetical figment is apparently quite the despicable person.
God Bless, CRHer700
Do unto others what you expect to be done to you.
Dubbed a "Committee Secret Agent" by @mr1931S on 7/23/24
@Lostintranslation , here is a thread for you to read if you have not already done so:
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1101086/the-most-laughable-coin-on-fleabay-a-new-daily-laugh-riot#latest
God Bless, CRHer700
Do unto others what you expect to be done to you.
Dubbed a "Committee Secret Agent" by @mr1931S on 7/23/24
Lol. Yes, I know. But I still don't understand the alleged "laundering ".
Is there any way to determine the number of returns/cancelled orders for these particular auctions? Not ebay savy.
@jmlanzaf Also not fluent with laundering methods, so pardon the reference.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
I'm not criticizing anyone. I just don't understand how it would work.
You can't see returns or cancelations for other people.
I work in an industry where money laundering is a major threat and we get annual training on it.
Ebay offers perfect opportunities for ML.
The IRS/govt is not tracking the spending of buyers on ebay. It's tracking the income of sellers. (1099 forms).
A seller takes in money from a series of transactions and pays taxes on that. The money is now legal. They "earned" it and they paid taxes on it.
The item just has to get paid for. The buyer and seller are in cahoots. Heck maybe they're even the same person.
All ML involves illegal money entering the legal flow, where it gets accounted for as a supposedly legitimate transaction. Where the buyer got the money from is usually not the focus, or at least can be easily concealed with prepaid debit cards, etc. used for relatively small transactions.
A retail storefront, an eBay listing, income from a phony job - it all allows money to be laundered. Yes, there are costs associated with the laundering, but that's the price of getting the money clean.
But don't you see my point? The buyer is the one laundering it. And once they've laundered it, there are many less public ways of getting it to the seller (crypto or venmo or zelle etc). There is no need for an eBay sale.
I've also never seen one of these sellers with multiple sales. So if you are laundering any significant amount of money, you would have to be doing it through multiple accounts.
I can think of a dozen easier and less visible ways of doing it. And I'm not exactly a criminal mastermind.
I pay eBay, IRS, and my friends to launder it.
I give them the cash for raking my yard. They pay with C.C.
Recorded through eBay transaction,
Recorded through taxes.
Laundering likes layering
You have a small talent for criminality, then. I grew up with them.
I found a guy with thirty pages of one-bid sales at inflated prices.
For instance, how would you hide moonshine profits?
The buyer is laundering my money for me. I do not have to give him the lawn tractor he bought for five times the value. I give him his cut. I can’t launder my own money.
An investigation could find the inconsistencies, but until the problem is large, no one has the time to investigate the eBay sewers. It’s a good place to hide.
But don't you see my point? The buyer and seller are working together and might even be the same person. For example, the the seller might be giving the buyer the dirty money in cash to use for payment.
And it is not about finding less public ways of transferring the money - it's about finding more public ways of doing that.
A person can't just put $50,000 dollars on their tax form as miscellaneous income and expect to be safe from government scrutiny. But, they can run a "successful" eBay business where they have $50,000 in profits from many (relatively) small transactions. They happily pay their taxes (you of all people should appreciate that) and the money is now laundered.
There are lots of ways to launder money. EBay could be just one of them.
Looking at some of these eBay listing, I think I have a chance to become a Power Seller!
Thanksgiving National Battlefield Coin Show is November 29-30, 2024 at the Eisenhower Allstar Sportsplex, Gettysburg, PA. Tables are available. WWW.AmericasCoinShows.com
Yes. I get that. But it really violates the normal precepts of laundering CASH. If the illegal funds are already digital, I suppose that works. I guess I'm hung up on the idea that the illegal proceeds are cash. With cash you still have the problem of the buyer(s) depositing good of cash. The usual strategy was to run the cash through a cash business to inflate receipts.
So I presume we're laundering digital dirty money?
I also don't see why I want a public record that law enforcement can see. While you want legal (reported) transactions, why do I want it in a publicly searchable database?
And why not create less suspicious activity by "selling" properly priced luxury goods?
Not necessarily. A drug dealer sells $100 worth of drugs, goes into the convenience store and buys a prepaid debit/credit card, uses that card to buy nonsense on ebay from a friend (or himself).
Ebay is just one potential outlet. And it may not be the best one. It might be a brilliant idea, a terrible idea, or something in between. Look at who we're dealing with here.
And where did you get the money to buy your inventory of luxury goods? 🤔
I would think if a seller paid cash for a group of coins with laundry money, then set up several different ID's on ebay, then
sell the coin at a lower than average price to ensure immediate sale. They would then have laundered the money and the many different seller ID's would keep the total yearly amount low enough to stay below the IRS 1099 amounts. I'm sure there would be problems, but it is possible.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Why not? Seller sends buyer a $1250.00 box of Kleen-ex who PayPals the seller the cash that the seller gave the buyer.—positive feedback guaranteed. Multiply that.
Do they have to be real goods? You're collaborator isn't going to complain. > @Creg said:
Exactly. Although they probably need to show a purchase of the goods to justify it. But they can make fake buys from another compatriot.
It was a lot easier when you would just run the cash through a till in a bar. Doing it publicly with actual goods makes it more complicated methinks.
I don’t really know, but here’s some quick hits I just found using google
Mr_Spud
Here’s an interesting one
https://www.occrp.org/en/daily/6847-isis-laundered-money-into-us-using-ebay-investigators
Mr_Spud
One more example
https://fromthe108.com/2024/05/21/money-laundering-ebay-beanie-babies/
Mr_Spud
Digital transfers and digital currency inserts itself now, and some things are easier too.
Thanks— @MrSpud
I parse user names; some look code-like.
This thread is fun. I hate to say it though, that I don't think that it will last long.
God Bless, CRHer700
Do unto others what you expect to be done to you.
Dubbed a "Committee Secret Agent" by @mr1931S on 7/23/24