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1862 Indian Head Cent for grading

Hi,
This is another coin I found available in England. Before I make an offer, I was curious to see y'alls thoughts on the grade.

Comments

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,514 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If the (light) color is accurate, my guess is that the coin has been dipped or gently cleaned.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 34,247 ✭✭✭✭✭

    AUz, possibly cleaned. Maybe it's just the photo.

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,346 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Consider it to be an MS60 when making an offer. The seller has not stepped up and paid the price for having it slabbed. Has it been dipped at some time? It may or not have been based on whether the photo shows its color accurately.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • zrnumismaticszrnumismatics Posts: 111 ✭✭✭

    @291fifth said:
    Consider it to be an MS60 when making an offer. The seller has not stepped up and paid the price for having it slabbed. Has it been dipped at some time? It may or not have been based on whether the photo shows its color accurately.

    He's a British coin dealer that has thousands of coins available - with only 3 or 4being slabbed. i don't think he sends anything in. I might pass but I have a history of sending bright CN Indian Head cents to NGC from old collections and getting straight grades.
    Examples:





  • CopperindianCopperindian Posts: 1,482 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The detail on the coin is good, but 1862’s usually are. I checked the examples in CoinFacts referencing marks & color. Your pics are pretty good; my assessment is AU details - cleaned. I don’t like that area between the right shield & the leaves. Unless you can get a really good price, I would pass.

    “The thrill of the hunt never gets old”

    PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
    Copperindian

    Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
    Copperindian

  • hummingbird_coinshummingbird_coins Posts: 1,138 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looks UNC to me, about a 63. I'm no expert, but the color looks normal for a CN cent. Try a dip in acetone to remove the PVC residue by the shield.

    Young Numismatist • My Toned Coins
    Life is roadblocks. Don't let nothing stop you, 'cause we ain't stopping. - DJ Khaled

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,986 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I guess I'm losing it, but I don't see the "cleaned" part here. The coin has some marks and some toning spots. The one on the reverse between the shield and wreath on the right side is a bit concerning. Overall I'd go MS-60 for pricing if you wanted it.

    This is the second most common Civil War era date behind the 1863. It's not hard to find nice.

    This one is graded MS-64.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,514 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @zrnumismatics said:

    @291fifth said:
    Consider it to be an MS60 when making an offer. The seller has not stepped up and paid the price for having it slabbed. Has it been dipped at some time? It may or not have been based on whether the photo shows its color accurately.

    He's a British coin dealer that has thousands of coins available - with only 3 or 4being slabbed. i don't think he sends anything in. I might pass but I have a history of sending bright CN Indian Head cents to NGC from old collections and getting straight grades.
    Examples:





    Those that you posted look more original to me than the 1862.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • Morgan13Morgan13 Posts: 1,279 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Why not try to purchase the slabbed coins instead of the risk of a raw coin?
    If he's overpriced on his slabs that may say something about the raw coins. Depending on the price gap.

    Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
    Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
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  • jfriedm56jfriedm56 Posts: 1,252 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Your coin looks too white-ish and uniform in color. Original, un-dipped Copper/ nickel cents have beautiful luster and a bright coppery look to them such as this:

  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 8,228 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Dont know what’s he’s asking. Considering how it looks to the slabbed 65 - pass.

    Coins & Currency
  • Jacques_LoungecoqueJacques_Loungecoque Posts: 733 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I agree with His Majesty the King.
    Something about the surfaces just looks off to me. Put it this way, if I were looking for this exact coin and ran into this one, I’d keep moving.

    Having fun while switching things up and focusing on a next level PCGS slabbed 1950+ type set, while still looking for great examples for the 7070.

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,986 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 14, 2024 12:07PM

    "Cleaned" and "dipped" are two separate issues, but it's impossible to explain that to some people.

    A "cleaned" coin gets you into "details" territory. It means you have hairlines that are the result of moving metal around.

    "Dipped" means, the original luster might be impaired, but the coin still might qualify has a low end Mint State piece. That's part of what the grades MS-60 and 61 are met to cover. There is mint luster left, but it's not vibrant.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,514 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BillJones said:
    "Cleaned" and "dipped" are two separate issues, but it's impossible to explain that to some people.

    A "cleaned" coin gets you into "details" territory. It means you have hairlines that are the result of moving metal around.

    "Dipped" means, the original luster might be impaired, but the coin still might qualify has a low end Mint State piece. That's part of what the grades MS-60 and 61 are met to cover. There is mint luster left, but it's not vibrant.

    I see a lot of “cleaned” (not just “dipped”) coins without obvious hairlines. Their sheen is clearly off/unnatural, as a result. And many of them reside in straight grade holders.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,986 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @BillJones said:
    "Cleaned" and "dipped" are two separate issues, but it's impossible to explain that to some people.

    A "cleaned" coin gets you into "details" territory. It means you have hairlines that are the result of moving metal around.

    "Dipped" means, the original luster might be impaired, but the coin still might qualify has a low end Mint State piece. That's part of what the grades MS-60 and 61 are met to cover. There is mint luster left, but it's not vibrant.

    I see a lot of “cleaned” (not just “dipped”) coins without obvious hairlines. Their sheen is clearly off/unnatural, as a result. And many of them reside in straight grade holders.

    In that case, they should not have made it into straight grade holders. You can dip a coin until you ruin it and make it into a "details" coin. The term used 20 years ago was "cooked." My beef is with lightly dipped coins which some people called "cleaned."

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 8,475 ✭✭✭✭✭

    A little dull (especially the obverse), but I will go with MS62.

  • zrnumismaticszrnumismatics Posts: 111 ✭✭✭

    Thanks everyone for the info.

  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 10,002 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Appears to be verdigris on reverse between shield and leaf. I would pass, as Bill said, not hard to find one already graded. Even with a good AU price you can do better. JMO
    JIm


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

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  • jclovescoinsjclovescoins Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭✭✭

    au55 ....looks much worse than the others you sent for grading imo

  • TypekatTypekat Posts: 382 ✭✭✭✭

    i see a nice mint state coin.

    The verdigris on the reverse is minor, and may be removable gunk.

    I’m assuming the photo makes it look paler than its in-hand appearance.

    30+ years coin shop experience (ret.) Coins, bullion, currency, scrap & interesting folks. Loved every minute!

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,514 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Viewing the pictures on my computer monitor now, instead of my iPad, the color looks somewhat better than I thought previously. I could see the coin grading in the MS62-MS63 range.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • CopperindianCopperindian Posts: 1,482 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld:
    Hi Mark -
    These CN’s are a bit of an anomaly - the appearance of the OP’s example is fairly common color-wise. However, @jfriedm56’s earlier post is also true. They can & do appear “colorful” & lustrous.
    Ken

    “The thrill of the hunt never gets old”

    PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
    Copperindian

    Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
    Copperindian

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,514 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @rnkmyer1 said:
    @MFeld:
    Hi Mark -
    These CN’s are a bit of an anomaly - the appearance of the OP’s example is fairly common color-wise. However, @jfriedm56’s earlier post is also true. They can & do appear “colorful” & lustrous.
    Ken

    Hi Ken - I'm with you regarding the "bit of an anomaly".

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • TypekatTypekat Posts: 382 ✭✭✭✭

    75% copper does its stuff
    (sometimes)

    30+ years coin shop experience (ret.) Coins, bullion, currency, scrap & interesting folks. Loved every minute!

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