? for those that collect series that have varities
Bochiman
Posts: 25,365 ✭✭✭✭✭
Do you really like collecting by variety, rather than just Year/MM?
If the variety is minor (not talking noticeable DDO or clear overdate), do you feel compelled but really would rather not?
What about things like obv of YYYY but rev of YYYX or something like that?
I ask just because some of the variety series can seem so out of reach but something in myself, and I think some others, HAS to try to get to completion and it can cause compromising in quality or a feeling of emptiness/failure if you can't do it.
Yes, some like the "challenge" but there is a satisfaction to complete something...
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
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It's funny, but when I was collecting Lincoln Cents varieties were the only thing that interested me.
Collecting by date/mm seemed rather boring.
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
I’ve been working on a set of Mercury dimes for a minute, and chasing certain varieties has been my favorite part of the hunt.
In particular, I’m drawn to the doubled dies, and I’ve been searching out the ones listed in the Cherrypickers Guide, as well as any additional doubled dies that Wexler has labeled as “Best Of” for the series.
However, some of the other varieties in the series—RPMs, for instance—aren’t something I find very compelling.
So I will for sure put together the basic date/mintmark set + doubled dies, but I’m not certain I’ll be able to bring myself to finish a complete variety set.
My advice would be to focus on a basic date/mintmark set, and along the way pick up a few of the varieties that most interest you. If you really like those varieties, maybe pick up a few more and see where it leads. On the other hand, if you pick up a few varieties and start feeling they’re an unnecessary hindrance that’s just tying up funds and space that could be better used elsewhere… well, I’d follow that instinct.
I don't feel compelled because many of the "varieties" in my series are more die states than true varieties. I buy what I'm interested in.
That being said, the varieties in my series are so scarce I sometimes buy what I can regardless or else I likely won't be able to add any more coins very often.
Chopmarked Trade Dollar Registry Set --- US & World Gold Showcase --- World Chopmark Showcase
Yes, I do include varieties in my collection but I won't chase them. There are plenty of basic designs and denominations that I don't have, although many of these do not exist any longer and others are extremely rare. Yet, some are always available, at a price. The trick is finding key material at the right price and not chasing the minor varieties.
Completeness is another consideration. Coins have finite and definable sets. Those with a more compulsive nature may feel compelled towards completeness. Even if one collects a very specific area of obsoletes, like coins depicted on currency, there is no defined "complete" set as new issuers and denominations are still being discovered with surprising frequency. So, ones focus changes from completeness to as many as one can assemble.
I love collecting Capped Bust Dimes but varieties. My lifetime goal is to locate a new die marriage for CBDs. Its quite fun locating a rare die marriage at a show or on the internet. Some varieties differences can be as minor as location of a star or lettering on a motto or as major as the number of stars on a coin. Pretty cool stuff. It gets more interesting when you start thinking about how the early US mint used the same die for some early dimes and on early quarter Eagle coins. I feel this is educational as well.
For my Morgan collection I included all of the varieties in the NGC registry set, which has some minor ones (like the 87/6-O) and excludes major ones like the 88-O Hot Lips or the 1901 DDR. It includes the 4 major 1878 coins and the 1879-S Rev 78. I took a lot of care with all of the required varieties. The 1878 7TF Rev 79 is one of the most expensive coins I’ve ever bought and a highlight of my set. The 1882-O/S is a cool variety, one of the last coins I bought to complete the set and I’m really proud of it (even though it isn’t that expensive).
For my Lincoln album set I wanted all of the major affordable DDs (1955, 1972, 1983, 1984) but never cared about the 1917 or 1936, for example. All of my DDs are in slabs (as is my 22 plain) but the rest are raw.
No, currently I have limited my seated quarter set to the 108 piece registry set. I did have a few varieties which were date or mm size differences.
I collect early copper and the number of varieties can be mind numbing... and financially unapproachable to the average collector. I found the Wayte Raymond album of Large Cents and over two volumes, they limit the number of coins to 100 total from 1793 to 1857. This album set has the obvious varieties, over-dates and errors, but skips some of the more esoteric Redbook varieties. I accepted long ago that I'll never finish this set... it will always be a work in progress.
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
I would like to see a special edition of the Redbook that includes secondary varieties that are not listed currently but are popular enough to be listed and obtainable. Ex. Type B Washington quarters.
I believe this would help jumpstart more series collecting and values.
My areas of specialty are FE’s & IHC’s. Fortunately or otherwise, there are a ton of varieties in each series, some FS. The otherwise? The IHC Complete Variety Registry set has 185 coins! I started it inspired by another collector who had obtained all but 1! The one he missed was a one of a kind FS variety I happened to own. Right now, I’m 9 short of completion which may never happen. The good news is @ 95.14% it does qualify for an annual award. Any other participants are too far away to compete. As the 184/185 collector’s examples were mostly lower graded than mine, I’ll likely have the #1 set(s) of all time.
But while it is quite an accomplishment, I have to admit some of them were so minor as to border on the uninteresting. More of them were absolutely fabulous & a privilege to own. And, my fault maybe, but the pursuit is the thing for me. That’s equal to ownership from my perspective. So being a variety hunter fits me perfectly. I do realize it’s not for everyone & takes a good deal of patience. In the end, I feel rewarded.
As far as the FE Complete Variety Set, there’s “only” 20. The challenge there is finding ones as an owner you would be proud to own. I think I can tweak my set with a + grade in a couple places, but I like the composition as is.
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
I’m a fiend for them all whether it be small, major or just date
BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.
I consider varieties one of the most interesting aspects of numismatics. But not because they are scarce or collectible so much as they provide so many insights into the distribution and random walk of coins in circulation. From this inferences can be drawn about the nature, usage, and life of every coin back to 600 BC.
While I'm very interested in even the most minor die varieties, identifiable dies, and repeating errors I only actively collect significant varieties which I define as clearly visible with little or no magnification. I collect minor varieties as they come into my possession but do not actively seek them nor will I pay significant premiums to obtain them.
When I was a collector, my criterion for whether or not to collect a specific variety was "does it look cool?" That way, I avoided pursuing fly-speck varieties.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
One simple reason why some people choose to collect varieties is that they provide a new quest
to pursue in a series they already know, after they have completed most of the affordable date - mint mark set.
Whether a collector requires potential completion of a set is a matter of personal taste.
I dipped a toe in the waters of capped bust half dimes a little over 4 years ago. Recognizing I have that desire to COMPLETE sets (our "addictive personalities"?), I thought that i might do a one-per-year set (9 coins, no showstoppers). But I got drawn into the varieties- the die marriages and remarriages as cataloged by Logan/McCloskey and Valentine before them. SO interesting to observe how the dies were used (swapped in and out frequently), when they were used (one reverse die - Reverses M - paired with four obverses of different years 1829, 30, 31, and 32 - and not even in that order!)
Then there's the chance to cherrypick: a filled loop of the letter S makes thousands of dollars of difference in value between the 1832 LM-9.1 and the 1832 LM-9.2. They both used 1832 Obverse 2 and Reverse T. But LM-9.1 saw the fourth use of Reverse T, which was then paired with another obverse for a while - and when it came back to be paired with 1832 Obverse 2 in its sixth use it had a filled S - and there ain't many of that remarriage before the dies got split up again.
The calculus for me involved:
1. How old am I (pretty old, but young enough to complete a big set)
2. How do my funds compare to the cost of the set including rarities (workable, as long as I don't have too many OTHER hobbies. A nontrivial goal for me, which makes it sweeter)
3. Do I prefer my old shotgun approach of working on lots of sets, or do I want to focus on one series. For me, the latter approach removed distractions, concentrated my funds, forced me to study, and engendered camaraderie with experts who have become great friends and advisors
4. Is the thrill finding a marriage that only goes on sale once in years more intense than the thrill of buying one of the oodles of key coins available on the market for the popular series? For me, absolutely yes.
And like @EastonCollection I have a dream of discovering a new die marriage in my preferred series.
New website: Groovycoins.com Capped Bust Half Dime registry set: Bikergeek CBHD LM Set
The Indianhead registry set only has 185 DMs? The seated half DM registry set has close to a thousand DMs and there are likely a thousand more unlisted. It would cost about $60K to grade an entire registry set!
I really like DMs. I went gung-ho with DMs for a while until common sense set in. I no longer pay to have PCGS slap attribution labels on R3 coins anymore. Now, I focus on DMs of certain dates and increasingly on cherry picking rare die marriages (R5 or higher)
I as a general rule dislike having varieties included in a set definition be it a registry set or an album. I don't dislike varieties and have some, but I do not seek them out or attempt to collect them. But too many are microscopic or the result of a big promotion from a dealers or group of collectors, the floating roof thing springs instantly to mind here. I have no interest in collecting such minor and uninteresting things as that.
A few years back I was able to get NGC to add a non-varieties registry set for the Lincoln cent series to their registry.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
@Barberian:
PCGS recognizes only FS varieties for the Complete Variety Set. There are additional Snow varieties that may or may not be part of the set (only if they coincide with FS). I also have collected a good number of the Snows, included or not. In that case, I went after the “interesting” ones; some are so minor as they’re barely noticeable, even under magnification.
But, “only” 185? I never dreamed I would get as far as I have!
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
All already graded when you bought them or did you have to pay to get raw ones graded? That's a pretty large expense, imo.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Collecting varieties has just become an extension of collecting the regular series. I started with the main set, added the proofs, then along came the CPG, and now – Well, I have a cutoff date of 1940 for many of the Lincoln Cent Varieties, but not all. Truth is they are affordable IF you’re a picker.
WS
Put my XF-BU Bufffalo set in unmarked Capital holder because I wanted to include the 5 monster varieties, 16 DDO, 18/7 D, 5 leg, 3 leg and DDD/S but I also have slabbed and raw 2-feathers, No-Fs , Doubled dies, RPMS and 3-1/2 legs, most CPG listed. Really like looking for them.
@Bochiman: you’re right, but thankfully they were already graded.
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
Have not been drawn into varieties, although temped with early coppers. I tend rather to
move sideways into other areas of numismatics rather than go deep into a series or indeed collect series. I do collect “varieties” that I believe deserve to be included in a type set. Included are coins that represent intentional and obvious design changes. I’m hoping that the traditional US type set is modified to exclude a few type and add a number of new types. In the meantime I’ve marched to my own drummer.
I collect 1794-1807 silver and copper die marriages, with a few gold. There are a lot of ways to collect these by variety such as just the year and overdates, by hub (head), by major variety, by die marriages, DM with die states. Not completing keeps the interest going, I have "completed" some of my own goals such as all half dollar die marriages through R-6 rarity, but it is more about the journey than completion. Everything is interesting , even with minor differences. Grades don't matter to me, I have FA2 to MS62 in those years, and a bunch of non-graders.
Varieties are the soul of Draped Bust Large Cent collecting.
Smitten with DBLCs.
You're one dedicated DM collector! I don't think anybody will approach completion of a PCGS SLH die marriage registry set other than perhaps Bill Bugert or Randy Wiley. I know I never will because it requires PCGS attribution at $20 a coin.
Some of the varieties came along later in life for me, after key dates, MM's, completing sets and upgrades.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
As for my Morgan Dollar Set I had finished, I figured I would see about going for the Top 100 as another "something else" to do. After adding around 25 or so I decided to bail on that and sell them off just to keep the 97 Coin Complete Set. I am happy I did.
Plenty of varieties, coin series no matter, are just yawners.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Fully agree.
My own approach to copper has been kind of haphazard. Some I own that are minor varieties just sort of fell into my lap, so I have them. Bold overdates are very appealing, along with mistakes like 1/000. Some I got obsessed with owning, like the 1817 15 star obverse and all the heads of 1839, including the 9/6. Others with minor differences in reverse lettering sizes, not so much. To each his own!
I hear what you're saying - I started varieties once I hit a wall and couldn't upgrade my non-variety set. Decided to add the top 20 varieties of IHC's. Sold most in the mid-2000's.
Had a great time doing it - most were naked eye varieties.
Since then, have bought very few, if any.
whether major
just a date
or be it small
I enjoyed your post so much I had to give it poetic justice.
I wouldn't do it at all if I wasn't doing it comprehensively by varieties. But I moved beyond that and expanded it to the die states of each die pair.
If there's not a hole in my Capital holder for it I don't collect it.
I was always an album collector. If there was a space for a variety in an album, I needed it. Otherwise no. For instance most buffalo nickel albums have a space for a 1937-D three -legged buffalo nickel. So I got one. I have never seen a Jefferson nickel album with a space for a 1943/2, so I do not need it.
An ugly, hardly noticeable variety, and expensive coin is a pass for me.
Grading TPGs reject alot of Variety submittals even ones when clearly Fivaz-Stanton types.
I and my collecting Buddys Have way too many rejection problems. Resubmittals in a different way sometimes
gets them to recognize the first time rejected ones . after more money and lots of grading delay time spent, Quite frustrating.
The TPGs need to continue to improve their Variety graders knowledge/ expertise. I think this a weak area for them.
AS a side note: I studied varieties under J.T Stanton at summer seminar classes., and other well knowns along the way.
Have many books on varieties too.
.
What I truly love regarding varieties is the learning process as to the variety and how to diagnose a worn coin to be able to ID it. It's all about the fun for me. I spent nearly a year on the 1804 Draped Bust Half Cent learning what I call glance diagnostics. When searching for the 2 or 3 hard to find Cohen Varieties and then the Die States, then applying myself to a worn coin while may be boring to many, it intrigues me to no end. After 4-5 years pretty much ignoring my other collections for early copper, I have put my latest Walker Album aside, my Buffs and my Coppers for a new avenue of learning...the short year set of Capped Bust Half Dimes, only 9 years, but so many varieties. I'm already loving it. Thanks to the generosity of @Cladiator I will soon have the elusive Bible, McCloskey and Logans book. Can hardly wait
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
@jesbroken, I've been filing some LM book updates to my personal website. I admit, I have many more notations in my book than I've actually committed to the website, so it's not comprehensive - but it may help a n00b book reader to correct some of the updates and errata so they don't have to be confused. One example is my addition of 1835 LM-12 - see page 256 - which hadn't been discovered at time of publication. https://groovycoins.com/index.php/literature-and-links/
@Cladiator, if you have updates you want me to add, I'm happy to do so.
New website: Groovycoins.com Capped Bust Half Dime registry set: Bikergeek CBHD LM Set
I completed the 183 coin Washington Quarter Variety Set and suppose I did it in reverse as to what others have. I went after all the varieties first and waited to fill in the holes of the regular coins when I would get one of my cherry picks wrong.
It took me 10 years to complete the set and the varieties were my spice of life to keep me interested in completing the set. Back than a lot of the coins could be found unattributed and were picked off super cheap and I am Not into upgrading my varieties by 1 point or more if the cost is crazy.
I feel like I hit the sweet spot when a lot of folks were not paying attention to them. I will also agree that our host is getting a few Top Pop Varieties wrong and I too have had to argue with them to get the right holder.
They need to stand by there variety guy and if a wrong coin gets thru they need to pony up and pay the person what they paid to get that coin back off market. I miss J.T. as he would always be there to help out a variety guy. I once got a letter from him and sent it to pcgs just to get the variety on the holder.
Enjoy Tom
I used to be famous now I just collect coins.
Link to My Registry Set.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-specialty-sets/washington-quarters-complete-variety-set-circulation-strikes-1932-1964/publishedset/78469
Varieties Are The Spice Of LIFE and Thanks to Those who teach us what to search For.
Thank you for the updates. Looking forward to the book so I can learn more attributing my collection, only lack the 35 to complete the 9 coin set, then for the fun of the varieties.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Yes. For example, in Proof Jefferson Nickels there is the 1939 and 1940 reverse of 38 and reverse of 40 for both issues, and the obvious 1942 Type 1 and Type 2. Now, all the reengraved obverse FS-xx I am not really into but have a couple.
Collector, occasional seller
Yes. I like collecting half cent varieties and die states... but, I am not trying to go "full Cohen". Some varieties just get to be too expensive for me. I pick and choose without obligation to the varieties... its just a way for me to add some interest and depth to my set (I have bought a few counter-stamp and error Half Cents for the same reason).
I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.
I collect by date and varieties. I find the challenge fun and it is by no means easy in the series I collect. But will keep me busy for decades to come and that is what I want. Will I ever own them all no never it is impossible but that is fine with me.
Good thread @Bochiman , I've enjoyed reading it, thanks for posting it.
I don't have much of substance to add that hasn't already been said. @Nysoto's line of, "...but it is more about the journey than completion", pretty much sums it up for me. There was a time it didn't but for the last several years it certainly has.
Just for laughs I'll join @TwoSides2aCoin with a some numismatic poetry lol
So Many To See
A Winter Joy To Study
Half Dime Happiness
Referring again to Draped Bust Large Cents, variety (Sheldon number) is not enough for some. The next level is die state, typically referencing a Breen (I am loath to mention that name) designation. I’ve gone sideways myself on the S-223.
Smitten with DBLCs.
I have been collecting Washington Quarters for a long time. The series is not difficult to collect. You can go to eBay now and buy each date and mintmark in a PCGS holder in MS grade right now. I was very selective in the coins I added to my collection but there was no challenge to the set.
A collector on this board (Tom) introduced me to varieties and I felt like it would be a challenge to complete a proof and BS collection. So I still have 18 more to complete the my BS set. I will not get the 1964 SMS or 1935 DDO coins, so I really have 16 more coins to go. In putting this set together I have learned a lot about how dies are made and determining pick up points and die markers on coins that will identify a variety without seeing the variety on line. Most pictures of coins on line are not good enough to see the variety so I rely on die scratches, die gouges and die cracks to identify a double die or RPM.
I really enjoy the hunt to find coins to fill out my set. Like I said earlier, I had lost the joy of hunting for coins since there are so many and you can find them easily on the net. But now some of the varieties are really hard to find, but I enjoy the hunt and a little adrenaline rush when I fill another hole in my set.
Here is my Washington Quarter Variety Registry Set
This is my Washington Quarter Proof Variety Registry Set
Since my primary collection is CBH's I guess you could say I pursue DM's and DS's by nature. But, I do not expect to complete them all.
in addition to coins I like for a Date or Redbook Set, I collect DM's and DS's I like, that I feel are significant, and that leave me excited after viewing. Killer cracks and awesome overdates are always welcome.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
Emptiness/failure, while collecting coins?
I dunno, have always enjoyed just picking up nice pieces. Even better is some of the beat up key dates that circulated for many years.
I love to collect coins and also love varieties. I do not set out to build a complete set of any coin or denomination. Quite the opposite, I come up with my own "List" of coins that belong together.
Here is an example of what I am talking about. I have no desire to build a complete set of Seated Dimes.
Having said that, I have included coins such as 1838 Small Stars, 1843/1843 overdate, 1847 struck on figure of Liberty F-101, etc.
I call these Easter eggs (stolen from a former coin mentor), it is just one way to make a coin collection distinctive rather than all inclusive. James