Just a POP and Sell tidbit
olb31
Posts: 3,325 ✭✭✭✭✭
Currently on the EBAY sell listings for the last 3 or 4 months, 27 1983 Topps Gwynn's, Boggs and Sandberg's have sold. Even 2 BGS 10's of them have sold.
0 - SGC 10's have sold, and none are listed. In fact only 2 sandberg 9.5 are listed to sell and only 4 total gwynn's and sandberg's have sold in the last 3 or 4 months.
Work hard and you will succeed!!
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Aside from the graded results, I've seen a few '83T raw examples of the Big 3 sell for psychotic money, particularly Gwynn.
Gobble.
What am I missing? Are we saying these 3 key 83's are in the rise? Or just that SGCs are not selling?
They should be like 20-30 dollar cards. There are tons of these cards out there. But, hey, if you listen to the card guys, everything is on the rise!
yes they have. gmcards sold a few.> @balco758 said:
there aren't any sgc 10's on the market for at least the last 4 months. as hard as beckett 10's are to get even 2 of them sold. no sgc 10's sold or listed of topps gwynn - boggs - or sandberg. i find it -- kind of interesting.
There are 733 1983 Topps Tony Gwynn PSA 10s
There are 13 SGC 10s
There are 8 BGS 10s.
SGC and BGS are such a small part of the market.
0 PSA 9.5s
5728 PSA 9s
164 BGS 9.5s
711 BGS 9s
27 SGC 9.5
376 SGC 9s
i really like the 9.5's - sgc and bgs. i look at them as high end 9's. much harder to obtain than 9's though.
Seeing this with Comics Books as well. Some dealers outright lie and say business is at pandemic levels yet all auction prices are red across the board in every month over month compare.
Its easy enough to gather data/evidence from subscription level GPA and GoCollect which show a total sea of red, yet some dealers chose to lie. When they are called on that in the forums they either stop replying or triple down on their lies.
What do you mean a total sea of red?
This 1983 Topps Tony Gwynn PSA 10 seems to sell very often for 3500 dollars. Which is mind boggling to me. I don't understand who out there is spending that on this and seems to think it's a good decision regularly.
PSA could probably make a lot of money just selling stickers that say PSA 10. Print a sticker for pennies. Sell them for 5-10 dollars each. People would buy tons. Would really streamline the process. 8s and 9s are worthless 95% of the time anyway. They could fill in their own card name. When you consider these grades are like +/- 2. It would probably be just about as accurate. Guys wouldn't have to crack and resubmit until they get the grade they want either.
I picked up a 10 about 10 years ago and that was my attitude at the much lower price I paid then.
I wish I’d bought 10 more…
Have you sold it? Cause if you haven't it's just an imaginary number.
today a new number theory was born!
+/- 2 grades. Which is something I learned reading these boards every day for the past 4 years. The 10 is similar to a 9. A 9 is like 200 bucks.
If you believe it, then it's true!
On a side note, in about 2020 I watched a youtube video about a guy with a PSA 10 52 Topps Mantle. Back then they were saying it was worth 10 mil. I saw a clip this week saying they believe it's worth 40 mil now.
If you believe it, and state it, you're not lying. That doesn't mean it's true.
How much is it worth to you?
I do keep shopping for Gwynn. Every time I look they're more than I want to pay. The higher grades being out there make it less likely that I'll buy a lower grade. There are so many raw available that I get tired of scrolling.
As far as Mantle goes, if he didn't get the 10 mil for it, I don't think it's likely that he will get the 40 mil. If he was saying 10 mil and didn't get it. It's probably not worth 10 mil. I think that's a pretty safe place to start. I also heard a rumor that it was hand cut. I don't know how likely that is.
I’ve been into ripping my own packs to get cards that I can get signed and graded. So Gwynn isn’t a card I’ve chased for a while but I bought a 10 in 2018 and they were around $500 then. I come across a ton of them opening 83 Topps for others; Sandberg, Boggs, Ripken Jr. , Ryan. Anyways. They are rarely well centered or skewed so I can see them being popular. Even if 2.5% or so of them graded 10. There’s no 10 auto and probably not one hiding out there ungraded.
My 1981 Gwynn. He played 42 games for Walla Walla. Not sure how many were home games. My Dad got this at a yard sale years ago and I got it JSA authenticated.
I’m pretty sure all of the PSA 10 Mantles are from the Mr. Mint find.
This was two years ago and it was for an SGC 9.5, not a PSA 10.
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/34473632/1952-topps-mickey-mantle-card-sells-126-million-shattering-record
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
That was on display at the 2023 NSCC. The flaws on that card were superficial. If the PSA 10s are better I would be impressed.
As far as what a PSA 10 might sell for I’ve heard $15MM or $30MM. I had not heard $40MM before but it’s conceivable.
Not an auction I will likely be bidding on.
The story behind the Rosen find is pretty remarkable. And so random. To also know the provenance of a card like that. Extra cool.
That's a neat article and all. Unfortunately it has the words Heritage Auctions in it. It seems to me that HA might be the least trustworthy company in this hobby.
What’s wrong with HA? I’ve never had an issue with them.
Well, the card is very nice and the guy who won it did confirm his purchase out there on social media; he’s a successful Hollywood writer or agent or producer. (It’s been a few years so I don’t recall which.)
Point is, I think one of the PSA 10 examples - which are also from the Rosen find - would have a pretty decent chance to eclipse the mark set by that card. And there just 6 PSA 9’s so I’m guessing they’d come pretty close to the SGC price and the last 9 sold for $2.8 million, pre pandemic, in 2018.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
@CardGeek
Just adding information and pictures to the thread, nothing more.
The owner of one of the PSA 10’s is Marshall Fogel, he’s got an amazing collection and he’s done some YouTube shows that are just awesome to watch. His baseball cards are pretty much every collector’s dream card. I’ve watched them more than one and woke up covered in drool.
🤤
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
If the three (3) PSA-10s are all from the Rosen find…then Rosen had a chance to assess all four incredible 1952 Mantles. According to Rosen…the SGC-9.5 is the best known example that Rosen had seen as the Rosen letter states dated back in 1991.
I agree a PSA-10 would probably sell for more than $12.6 million, though.
interesting that my thread went from no sgc 10 topps 1983 cards to a 1952 mickey mantle. maybe it's like makin bacon (kevin bacon).
Two of the three:
As a point of reference, Al Rosen would rename himself Alice if you paid him enough money. He cared little for cards and lots for money. He was a PT Barnum type, he was prone to use hyperbole and not afraid to be rude or callous. Self promotion was half his schtick so I’m guessing he told everyone he sold a card to that this was the ‘finest one from the find’ and to be honest they all seem to pass muster to my eye.
As for the SGC 9.5, I think if this card could be in a PSA 10, it would be. It isn’t and my powers of deduction tell me that it would have been graded a 9 by PSA. I doubt someone took that card to SGC before taking it to PSA, you know?
Hence, SGC 9.5. And “Finest Known Example” printed on the flip flies at SGC only (and would make Mr. Mint proud, I’m sure).
Because to them, it is.
But to PSA, it’s tied with three others….
…and let’s be honest, that doesn’t look nearly as nice on a flip.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
When you start a thread it’s usually worth reading so I click it.
When someone talks Mickey, I’m in.
Whenever Kevin Bacon appears in a film, he always sizzles on the screen.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
Like if I pay you 5 billion dollars for your mint huffy bicycle. Then we issue the press release and do the interviews. Then trade back. Is that really a sale? I mean, it sold, right?
The dealers of course love the hype generated regardless of if it's true or not. It helps their business. So they'll stand behind whatever BS gets put out there.
Why would SCG put Finest Known Example on the label? That seems kind of silly. I wonder how much they had to pay to get that on the label.
My understanding is that SCG had a better rep than PSA for grading pre-ww2 cards. PSA blew up though. Now there are so many new people that SCGs old rep doesn't really matter. I can see someone taking SCG this card just based on that rep. This card looks like it was graded pretty recently though. I don't know when they changed their label.
It was because that was in the letter from Rosen with the card. Also why it’s quoted. You think this is a conspiracy?
I have to note that the word "Hollywood" does show up in this thread.
i like the discussion just funny how it turned out.
Your scenario is entirely plausible though it’s also borderline fraud so the hosting auction house would have tread pretty carefully after a $12.6 million dollar sale…
…but, even at $5 billion, I would never sell you my mint Huffy bicycle.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
The combined value of the 52T Mickeys being discussed here would be pretty close to enough to pay LeBron James' salary for one NBA season of shooting hoops.
Gobble.
My scenario doesn't have anything to do with this 12.5 million dollar mantle.
Off topic again.... but does anyone care about SGC pops?
no, i dont think anyone does
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Depends on if you have a pop 1 or pop 2 of a Mickey Mantle, I guess.
On the original topic I think you dont see many SGC 10 Gwynns and Boggs because at the time when those cards were receiving Gem Mint grades most all people sent them to PSA. SGC maybe was considered a nice alternative for T206s and some liked them better in those holders. Goudeys Prewar. These days SGC is just getting a lot of types of cards they didn't previously. But they seem to have similar standards as PSA, just less strict. The cards that look exactly like the PSA 10s of old if you submit them now you get 9 or worse. PSA may give you an 8 SGC may give you a 9 or even a 9.5. Its too nice of a card to give that gift away. I dont like it but what can you do. Your 83 Topps Ken Oberkfell might get a Gem Mint. With BGS, 80s cards, most people didn't pull an 82 Topps Cal 83 Topps Boggs Gwynn 84 Topps Mattingly 85 Topps McGwire Clemens Puckett 84 Topps Elway Marino 81 Topps Montana out of a pack, feel it was perfect and send it to Beckett. Knowing they may get 50 to 70% of the price or value they would get for the same grade from PSA. So most of the BGS 9.5s and BGS 10s of those cards were sheet cut. And only so many sheets and cutters. BGS had its thing. Contenders autos. SP Authentics. Sharp Chromes where people liked seeing the subs. If you saw an 81 Montana BGS 9.5 or 10 with 10 subs you knew. Those old cards with that card stock were not supposed to look like that. Too razor sharp. About 10 to 15 years ago, that seemed to cause those cards to dip, the suspicion and expectation they were sheet cut. I think most of those BGS 10s from the early to mid 80s were sheet cut. Not sure it matters as much now. They seem to be going for decent prices, as a grade even higher than a PSA 10 Gem Mint. Younger generation did not experience that and maybe does not feel the same way. The same way its all about scarcity with the younger collectors. /75 is better than /250 /5 is better than /25. Snakeskin is a lot more rare than Lazer Prizm. Pristine cards harder to find than Gem Mint.
nice post Ulysses. the oldest sgc 10 i've received so far is a 1986 tiffany. but i will keep trying. i like the 9.5's and i like the chance of pristine.
UlyssesExtravaganza Posts "On the original topic I think you dont see many SGC 10 Gwynns and Boggs because at the time when those cards were receiving Gem Mint grades most all people sent them to PSA. SGC maybe was considered a nice alternative for T206s and some liked them better in those holders. Goudeys Prewar.
These days SGC is just getting a lot of types of cards they didn't previously. But they seem to have similar standards as PSA, just less strict. The cards that look exactly like the PSA 10s of old if you submit them now you get 9 or worse. PSA may give you an 8 SGC may give you a 9 or even a 9.5. Its too nice of a card to give that gift away. I dont like it but what can you do. Your 83 Topps Ken Oberkfell might get a Gem Mint.
With BGS, 80s cards, most people didn't pull an 82 Topps Cal 83 Topps Boggs Gwynn 84 Topps Mattingly 85 Topps McGwire Clemens Puckett 84 Topps Elway Marino 81 Topps Montana out of a pack, feel it was perfect and send it to Beckett. Knowing they may get 50 to 70% of the price or value they would get for the same grade from PSA. So most of the BGS 9.5s and BGS 10s of those cards were sheet cut. And only so many sheets and cutters. BGS had its thing. Contenders autos. SP Authentics. Sharp Chromes where people liked seeing the subs. If you saw an 81 Montana BGS 9.5 or 10 with 10 subs you knew. Those old cards with that card stock were not supposed to look like that. Too razor sharp. About 10 to 15 years ago, that seemed to cause those cards to dip, the suspicion and expectation they were sheet cut. I think most of those BGS 10s from the early to mid 80s were sheet cut. Not sure it matters as much now. They seem to be going for decent prices, as a grade even higher than a PSA 10 Gem Mint.
Younger generation did not experience that and maybe does not feel the same way. The same way its all about scarcity with the younger collectors. /75 is better than /250 /5 is better than /25. Snakeskin is a lot more rare than Lazer Prizm. Pristine cards harder to find than Gem Mint."
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