You can’t nitpick every little hit these arent graded like moderns. From what I’ve seen luster and eye appeal far outweigh preservation.
I mean.... you can, but your guess would almost certainly be wrong, if we're using the PCGS grade as the right answer. It appears that many forumites are tough on saints, but one must not forget that these are made of soft gold and they were stored in a way that gives them friction on the high points. Because of that, the series gets some clemency in the grading room.
When I first look at that TV, I'm immediately in the gem range based on luster and clean fields. If anyone arrived at a grade less than 65, you may need to loosen up a bit on these coins. JA is tough on saints too, but I couldn't see that coin in anything less than a 65 CAC holder.
Interesting. And when I said "from what I've seen" came from grading hundreds of them on MyCollect getting it wrong most of the time until I loosened up a bit but... a fine line between 58 & 62/3 where in-hand still beats the best photo-eye.
@Carterofmars said:
To grade the 1928 Saint-Gaudens Double Eagle ($20 gold coin) using the American Numismatic Association (ANA) grading standards, we need to evaluate its condition based on the provided images:
Obverse (Front):
Contact Marks: The coin shows a few minor contact marks, particularly in the fields and on Liberty's figure. These marks are minimal and not overly distracting.
Hairlines: There are no significant hairlines visible, indicating that the coin has not been improperly cleaned or handled.
Luster: The coin exhibits strong original luster, which is a positive aspect.
Strike: The strike appears sharp, with clear details visible in Liberty's figure, the stars, and other features.
Eye Appeal: The overall eye appeal is excellent, with the coin maintaining a clean and attractive appearance despite the minor contact marks.
Reverse (Back):
Contact Marks: The reverse shows minimal contact marks, and those present are minor and not distracting.
Hairlines: No significant hairlines are visible on the reverse.
Luster: The luster remains strong and original on the reverse.
Strike: The details on the eagle, including the feathers and other features, are well-defined, indicating a sharp strike.
Eye Appeal: The reverse has a consistent appearance with the obverse, maintaining excellent eye appeal.
ANA Grading Summary:
MS-70 (Perfect): The coin does not meet this grade due to the presence of minor contact marks.
MS-69: The coin falls short of this grade because of the minor contact marks.
MS-68: This grade is a strong possibility given the strong luster, sharp strike, and minimal contact marks.
MS-67: This grade is also a strong possibility due to the excellent eye appeal and overall high quality.
MS-66: This grade seems fitting, given the strong luster, sharp strike, and minimal contact marks that do not overly detract from the overall appearance.
Considering the condition observed in the images, an MS-66 to MS-67 grade seems appropriate. This grade reflects the above-average surface quality, sharp strike, strong luster, and very pleasing eye appeal, with only a few minor contact marks. The coin exhibits characteristics that are consistent with a high-end mint state coin.
Given the images, I lean slightly towards MS-67 due to its outstanding eye appeal and overall preservation.
Not sure where you're getting your information but the divot in Ms. Liberty's upper shin and the chunk taken out of her left breast probably limits the grade a bit... IMHO...
@Carterofmars said:
To grade the 1928 Saint-Gaudens Double Eagle ($20 gold coin) using the American Numismatic Association (ANA) grading standards, we need to evaluate its condition based on the provided images:
Obverse (Front):
Contact Marks: The coin shows a few minor contact marks, particularly in the fields and on Liberty's figure. These marks are minimal and not overly distracting.
Hairlines: There are no significant hairlines visible, indicating that the coin has not been improperly cleaned or handled.
Luster: The coin exhibits strong original luster, which is a positive aspect.
Strike: The strike appears sharp, with clear details visible in Liberty's figure, the stars, and other features.
Eye Appeal: The overall eye appeal is excellent, with the coin maintaining a clean and attractive appearance despite the minor contact marks.
Reverse (Back):
Contact Marks: The reverse shows minimal contact marks, and those present are minor and not distracting.
Hairlines: No significant hairlines are visible on the reverse.
Luster: The luster remains strong and original on the reverse.
Strike: The details on the eagle, including the feathers and other features, are well-defined, indicating a sharp strike.
Eye Appeal: The reverse has a consistent appearance with the obverse, maintaining excellent eye appeal.
ANA Grading Summary:
MS-70 (Perfect): The coin does not meet this grade due to the presence of minor contact marks.
MS-69: The coin falls short of this grade because of the minor contact marks.
MS-68: This grade is a strong possibility given the strong luster, sharp strike, and minimal contact marks.
MS-67: This grade is also a strong possibility due to the excellent eye appeal and overall high quality.
MS-66: This grade seems fitting, given the strong luster, sharp strike, and minimal contact marks that do not overly detract from the overall appearance.
Considering the condition observed in the images, an MS-66 to MS-67 grade seems appropriate. This grade reflects the above-average surface quality, sharp strike, strong luster, and very pleasing eye appeal, with only a few minor contact marks. The coin exhibits characteristics that are consistent with a high-end mint state coin.
Given the images, I lean slightly towards MS-67 due to its outstanding eye appeal and overall preservation.
Not sure where you're getting your information but the divot in Ms. Liberty's upper shin and the chunk taken out of her left breast probably limits the grade a bit... IMHO...
Don't forget about the reverse!
The more I look at it the more I can see the six. Don’t forget about the liquid reverse!
@logger7 said:
These glamour shots usually portray a coin better than in hand. MS63+
I am starting to think these GTG threads are a waste of time. All sort of lighting angles, amount and type of lighting, distortions, magnification of the contact marks for better or worse.
@logger7 said:
These glamour shots usually portray a coin better than in hand. MS63+
I am starting to think these GTG threads are a waste of time. All sort of lighting angles, amount and type of lighting, distortions, magnification of the contact marks for better or worse.
If you purchase coins using pictures only (nudge, nudge) they are a fantastic tool to learn to interpret coin pictures, whether good pics or bad. They give more confidence and minimize unpleasant surprises.
@logger7 said:
These glamour shots usually portray a coin better than in hand. MS63+
I am starting to think these GTG threads are a waste of time. All sort of lighting angles, amount and type of lighting, distortions, magnification of the contact marks for better or worse.
They can be fun however, and they have helped me hone my grading skills considerably.
God bless all who believe in him. Do unto others what you expect to be done to you. Dubbed a "Committee Secret Agent" by @mr1931S on 7/23/24. Founding member of CU Anti-Troll League since 9/24/24.
@johnhenry9009 said: @Numismy you can post the grade here on the (U.S. Coin Forum) but you can't sell things or "promote" here (that kind of stuff goes to the Buy, Sell, & Trade - U.S. Coins forum ) which you can find by clicking on the third one up from the bottom of "Coins and Currency - PCGS" forums. But I don't think one is allowed to promote a service?
and I'd guess MS-63 maybe 64
(edited for grammar)
So ALL discussions about eBay, GC, Heritage etc. and so on and so forth should be on the BST forum.
@johnhenry9009 said: @Numismy you can post the grade here on the (U.S. Coin Forum) but you can't sell things or "promote" here (that kind of stuff goes to the Buy, Sell, & Trade - U.S. Coins forum ) which you can find by clicking on the third one up from the bottom of "Coins and Currency - PCGS" forums. But I don't think one is allowed to promote a service?
and I'd guess MS-63 maybe 64
(edited for grammar)
So ALL discussions about eBay, GC, Heritage etc. and so on and so forth should be on the BST forum.
No, of course not. It sounds as if you didn’t see one or more posts by @Numismy, touting his site. I believe that he subsequently deleted at least one of them.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@johnhenry9009 said: @Numismy you can post the grade here on the (U.S. Coin Forum) but you can't sell things or "promote" here (that kind of stuff goes to the Buy, Sell, & Trade - U.S. Coins forum ) which you can find by clicking on the third one up from the bottom of "Coins and Currency - PCGS" forums. But I don't think one is allowed to promote a service?
and I'd guess MS-63 maybe 64
(edited for grammar)
So ALL discussions about eBay, GC, Heritage etc. and so on and so forth should be on the BST forum.
@oreville said:
I had guessed 64 to 65 but have trouble seeing this getting stickered by CAC even at 65.
Oreville, I mean this with the utmost respect but so many of your coins are undergraded, in old holders, and super PQ for the grade. If you're mentally using your saints as a baseline, you might be setting the bar too high 🙂.
@johnhenry9009 said: @Numismy you can post the grade here on the (U.S. Coin Forum) but you can't sell things or "promote" here (that kind of stuff goes to the Buy, Sell, & Trade - U.S. Coins forum ) which you can find by clicking on the third one up from the bottom of "Coins and Currency - PCGS" forums. But I don't think one is allowed to promote a service?
and I'd guess MS-63 maybe 64
(edited for grammar)
So ALL discussions about eBay, GC, Heritage etc. and so on and so forth should be on the BST forum.
Where did you get get the "ALL discussions" from?
Would save save the inevitable hassling of what is allowed and what isn't.
@johnhenry9009 said: @Numismy you can post the grade here on the (U.S. Coin Forum) but you can't sell things or "promote" here (that kind of stuff goes to the Buy, Sell, & Trade - U.S. Coins forum ) which you can find by clicking on the third one up from the bottom of "Coins and Currency - PCGS" forums. But I don't think one is allowed to promote a service?
and I'd guess MS-63 maybe 64
(edited for grammar)
So ALL discussions about eBay, GC, Heritage etc. and so on and so forth should be on the BST forum.
No, of course not. It sounds as if you didn’t see one or more posts by @Numismy, touting his site. I believe that he subsequently deleted at least one of them.
I don't recall members being able to delete their own post and neither of his first 2 appear to be edited that I can see. I did note a reference to a selling site tho. Actually I was just being a wiseguy.
I would guess 65 based on the TrueView. Strong luster, nice strike and good appeal, but plenty of little nits to pick.
That aside, there is a lot of hybrid advertising here on the Coin Forum. Even by some of the people IN this thread other than the OP.
I don't always like it, and sometimes I think certain posters need a big kick in the a** (or possibly square on the other side), but I don't necessarily see this post or the OP as blatantly advertising. Time will tell.
Adding your logo to a TrueView (or any other image you didn't take) might be in poor form though.
my 2c ...
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
@oreville said:
I had guessed 64 to 65 but have trouble seeing this getting stickered by CAC even at 65.
Oreville, I mean this with the utmost respect but so many of your coins are undergraded, in old holders, and super PQ for the grade. If you're mentally using your saints as a baseline, you might be setting the bar too high 🙂.
Interesting comment you posted given my initial attempts to cross my Saints to CACG for plus grades.
My 1924 and 1928 Saints in PCGS/CAC MS-67 failed to cross at MS-67+
My multiple Saints in NGC/CAC MS-66 crossed at CACG MS-66 not 66+.
I admit I have not attempted to cross my OGH PCGS MS-66 Saints to CACG for plus grade.
I do have a bunch of gold stickered OGH PCGS Saints, mostly in MS-63 grades and lower.1924 is by far the most common. Half of them I submitted to CAC and almost the other half I bought them with the gold sticker long ago when they were reasonably priced,
I do tend to be really picky on the Saints but do not own a plus graded PCGS Saint.
However, my favorite Saints are the three Saints I own in NGC 1.0 black slabs. One is gold stickered, a second is green stickered and a third was expertly switched with a lower graded Saint back in the day, it is amazing to observe how the crooks were able to expertly switch coins in the oldest NGC holder.
I have joked that these three black NGC slabs are my retirement plan. My family does not understand my deep affection for them.
Yet with these Saints I own, I have far more $20 Libs . Mt favorite grade on them is between EF-45 to AU-58. I like them a bit dirty.
By the way, you have a lovely AU-58 1854 large date $20 Lib. Just the right amount of dirt.
Comments
Interesting. And when I said "from what I've seen" came from grading hundreds of them on MyCollect getting it wrong most of the time until I loosened up a bit but... a fine line between 58 & 62/3 where in-hand still beats the best photo-eye.
.
Nailed it. 😉
Like to see more of these mystery posts! Was fun. 👍
Nope. 😉
The more I look at it the more I can see the six. Don’t forget about the liquid reverse!
I am starting to think these GTG threads are a waste of time. All sort of lighting angles, amount and type of lighting, distortions, magnification of the contact marks for better or worse.
If you purchase coins using pictures only (nudge, nudge) they are a fantastic tool to learn to interpret coin pictures, whether good pics or bad. They give more confidence and minimize unpleasant surprises.
They can be fun however, and they have helped me hone my grading skills considerably.
God bless all who believe in him. Do unto others what you expect to be done to you. Dubbed a "Committee Secret Agent" by @mr1931S on 7/23/24. Founding member of CU Anti-Troll League since 9/24/24.
I had guessed 64 to 65 but have trouble seeing this getting stickered by CAC even at 65.
So ALL discussions about eBay, GC, Heritage etc. and so on and so forth should be on the BST forum.
No, of course not. It sounds as if you didn’t see one or more posts by @Numismy, touting his site. I believe that he subsequently deleted at least one of them.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Thanks for reveal, showing it.
Where did you get get the "ALL discussions" from?
Oreville, I mean this with the utmost respect but so many of your coins are undergraded, in old holders, and super PQ for the grade. If you're mentally using your saints as a baseline, you might be setting the bar too high 🙂.
Founder- Peak Rarities
Website
Instagram
Facebook
Would save save the inevitable hassling of what is allowed and what isn't.
I don't recall members being able to delete their own post and neither of his first 2 appear to be edited that I can see. I did note a reference to a selling site tho. Actually I was just being a wiseguy.
I would guess 65 based on the TrueView. Strong luster, nice strike and good appeal, but plenty of little nits to pick.
That aside, there is a lot of hybrid advertising here on the Coin Forum. Even by some of the people IN this thread other than the OP.
I don't always like it, and sometimes I think certain posters need a big kick in the a** (or possibly square on the other side), but I don't necessarily see this post or the OP as blatantly advertising. Time will tell.
Adding your logo to a TrueView (or any other image you didn't take) might be in poor form though.
my 2c ...
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
Interesting comment you posted given my initial attempts to cross my Saints to CACG for plus grades.
My 1924 and 1928 Saints in PCGS/CAC MS-67 failed to cross at MS-67+
My multiple Saints in NGC/CAC MS-66 crossed at CACG MS-66 not 66+.
I admit I have not attempted to cross my OGH PCGS MS-66 Saints to CACG for plus grade.
I do have a bunch of gold stickered OGH PCGS Saints, mostly in MS-63 grades and lower.1924 is by far the most common. Half of them I submitted to CAC and almost the other half I bought them with the gold sticker long ago when they were reasonably priced,
I do tend to be really picky on the Saints but do not own a plus graded PCGS Saint.
However, my favorite Saints are the three Saints I own in NGC 1.0 black slabs. One is gold stickered, a second is green stickered and a third was expertly switched with a lower graded Saint back in the day, it is amazing to observe how the crooks were able to expertly switch coins in the oldest NGC holder.
I have joked that these three black NGC slabs are my retirement plan. My family does not understand my deep affection for them.
Yet with these Saints I own, I have far more $20 Libs . Mt favorite grade on them is between EF-45 to AU-58. I like them a bit dirty.
By the way, you have a lovely AU-58 1854 large date $20 Lib. Just the right amount of dirt.
Is a coin really a coin without a CAC sticker.
Yes, of course!
I even own a ICG and Hallmark graded Mint State Saint that I like. They cannot be stickered.
65C
My Saint Set