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1916-D dime in a fake PCGS slab sold

ShurkeShurke Posts: 372 ✭✭✭✭

Last night a 1916-D dime in a fake PCGS slab popped up on eBay. I contacted the seller, but it looks like it sold before any action could be taken.

Posting the listing link here for posterity in case @burfle23 or any one else wants to make note of it.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/387157754936?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=i7w8VKoaS-q&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=XLvDXs54TE2&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Comments

  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 6,249 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:
    The seller might very well know the coin's counterfeit. He also sold a counterfeit 1879-CC $1 here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/387156972107?itmmeta=01J1WT69MZCHE96P8GPJ6YS3AQ&hash=item5a245a924b:g:~PsAAOSwpCRmhGjE

    So rather than contact him, I reported both listings to eBay and ask others to consider doing the same.

    Do the police ever get involved in these investigations? The seller does offer 30-day return privilege to the buyer so is that the "out" for seller getting into hot water with authorities?

    Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein

  • MartinMartin Posts: 968 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The description in the listing calls it a NGC ag3

    Martin

  • Jacques_LoungecoqueJacques_Loungecoque Posts: 733 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would be shocked if any law enforcement agency gets involved in these kinds of cases. They’d probably chalk it up to a civil matter.

    Having fun while switching things up and focusing on a next level PCGS slabbed 1950+ type set, while still looking for great examples for the 7070.

  • SapyxSapyx Posts: 2,210 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @mr1931S said:
    Do the police ever get involved in these investigations? The seller does offer 30-day return privilege to the buyer so is that the "out" for seller getting into hot water with authorities?

    EBay don't inform the police as they don't actually "know" the coin is counterfeit, they only know "someone suspects" it, and they're not going to act based simply on rumour. And law enforcement doesn't have an army of officers trolling the Internet looking for counterfeit money. Law enforcement relies on individuals reporting counterfeit items directly to them, and they're probably not going to act unless you have the counterfeit physically in your possession.

    How easy and effective reporting to law enforcement is seems to depend on jurisdiction. The RCMP in Canada seem to be quicker to get involved in counterfeit coin cases than the Secret Service in the US, for example.

    Waste no more time arguing what a good man should be. Be one.
    Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius, "Meditations"

    Apparently I have been awarded one DPOTD. B)
  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 8,228 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looks like somebody paid some big tuition, terrible situation.

    Coins & Currency
  • rec78rec78 Posts: 5,737 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Both reported.

    image
  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 6,249 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 4, 2024 3:40AM

    @Cougar1978 said:
    Looks like somebody paid some big tuition, terrible situation.

    I've got a different word than "tuition" for what I'm seeing here. The price of $4100 is about half of what the real deal should fetch for the seller.

    "or best offer." now, that is rich.lol

    Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein

  • ShurkeShurke Posts: 372 ✭✭✭✭

    @burfle23 said:
    Thanks for the tag @Shurke ,

    Glad to do it. You do important work for our hobby.

  • hummingbird_coinshummingbird_coins Posts: 1,138 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Cougar1978 said:
    Looks like somebody paid some big tuition, terrible situation.

    It's not "tuition" unless they learn from their mistakes. If someone can't tell a counterfeit coin from the seller's pictures, it's not likely they will be able to tell with it in hand.

    Young Numismatist • My Toned Coins
    Life is roadblocks. Don't let nothing stop you, 'cause we ain't stopping. - DJ Khaled

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,986 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 4, 2024 10:45AM

    Learning to grade would be a help here. If you know that an EF-45 should look like, you know that this thing with mint luster is not real. Even if you can't spot the counterfeit, that should set off alarm bells.

    Here are the detailed photos for all to see. The lot description was a study in ignorance. He called it an "NGC grading of AG3." He probably has multiple counterfeits to sell and is too lazy or ignorant to fix the description. That right there should have warned the bidders.


    Cropped Close-up

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,145 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If the buyer paid by credit card, can he do a chargeback? Unless the buyer of this coin shows it to some knowledgeable collector, he may never know that it's fake.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,445 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:
    If the buyer paid by credit card, can he do a chargeback? Unless the buyer of this coin shows it to some knowledgeable collector, he may never know that it's fake.

    Yep, it may sit unknowingly in a safe or SDB for years….unless he decides to send it in for grade Reconsideration, or to pursue the coveted gold CAC sticker, since it’s obviously “under graded” 😉, as Bill pointed out.

    Successful BST transactions with 171 members. Ebeneezer, Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 33,092 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @burfle23 said:
    Thanks for the tag @Shurke ,

    I have found the '16-D fake/ fake holder in my files 3 other times and different sellers. PCGS cert is active but has no image for comparison. I did eventually find the genuine one:

    The NGC Morgan also has a cert with no image; I reported the cert to my contact there. NGC typically adds a note to the on-line cert to alert buyers and sellers of a possible counterfeit...

    thank you for your tireless efforts!

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • burfle23burfle23 Posts: 2,331 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Just a note on this seller's 1879-CC Morgan $, the listing was apparently removed.

    I saved an image:

    NGC updated their on-line cert as well:

  • Manifest_DestinyManifest_Destiny Posts: 6,896 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @mr1931S said:

    @MFeld said:
    The seller might very well know the coin's counterfeit. He also sold a counterfeit 1879-CC $1 here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/387156972107?itmmeta=01J1WT69MZCHE96P8GPJ6YS3AQ&hash=item5a245a924b:g:~PsAAOSwpCRmhGjE

    So rather than contact him, I reported both listings to eBay and ask others to consider doing the same.

    Do the police ever get involved in these investigations? The seller does offer 30-day return privilege to the buyer so is that the "out" for seller getting into hot water with authorities?

    Most police departments don't care about property theft anymore unless it's a robbery or auto theft. They'll assign a case number (if that) and "look into it".

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 33,092 ✭✭✭✭✭

    i reported both. not sure why only 1 was removed. if i had good, verified pics of a real pamp pt ingot, i'd have looked into that too.

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions

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