I just reduced my subscription from 3 each to 2 each. I will want to re-evaluate the situation when the proof and reverse proof issue prices are known. I mainly collection and don't sell many coins. Good luck - everyone has to do what they feel is best for them.
USN & USAF retired 1971-1993
Successful Transactions with more than 100 Members
@Manorcourtman said:
I see them minting the max and letting them languish on the website through 2025.
Do you think if silver loses 20% of its value they will drop the price? Fat chance! In my book it’s financial suicide!
I bet in a couple years you’ll get these on eBay for spot plus five or ten bucks.
Not gonna happen. They never mint the max unless they are confident of a sellout. Even then, most times they don't,a nd items go on back order.
Inventory Management 101 -- it costs a FORTUNE to manufacture unsold inventory, and then have to pay to store it. Coins, packaging, etc. NOT GONNA HAPPEN!!!
They have already made what they think they will sell. Far less than 275K. If they sell what they made, they will go on back order and they will make more.
Otherwise, yes, what they don't sell will languish until they eventually sell, or they pull them and melt them. It will be a long time before we know final mintages, but we will be able to see how they are doing through the weekly sales reports.
And rest assured, even though the maximum mintage is 275K, if they make and sell far less than that, and have leftover inventory going into 2025, they won't be making more if people wake up next February and clean them out. That's where the opportunity might be. The problem is, no one will know for sure until after they go to Sold Out status and we can see what final mintages are, at which point it will be too late to get in.
@JWP said:
I just reduced my subscription from 3 each to 2 each. I will want to re-evaluate the situation when the proof and reverse proof issue prices are known. I mainly collection and don't sell many coins. Good luck - everyone has to do what they feel is best for them.
@NJCoin I guess i will have to re-evaluate all my USM purchases on all my issue purchases in the future. I have been buying coins from the mint since I was a kid in the early 60s. I may not be making my usual multiple purchases for each issue as I have in the past.
USN & USAF retired 1971-1993
Successful Transactions with more than 100 Members
@JWP said: @NJCoin I guess i will have to re-evaluate all my USM purchases on all my issue purchases in the future. I have been buying coins from the mint since I was a kid in the early 60s. I may not be making my usual multiple purchases for each issue as I have in the past.
EXACT same with me!! I'm not a flipper, and am not stomping my feet and demanding the right to buy what I want at cost plus a modest premium. I do, however, at least hope that what I buy has a shot to come close to retaining its value.
Right now, that's difficult to see at around $100 a pop for coins with mintages in the hundreds of thousands. I hope I'm wrong. A silver proof set at $150 is also going to be hard to justify, when the price was around 1/3 of that 5 short years ago.
Silver went from $15-20 in 2019 to $23-30 today. Silver going up 50% does not justify the price of most numismatic items going up 200%. I'd pay it if it was sustainable in the secondary market. Otherwise, I'm just paying a penalty to the US Treasury to feed a habit, and I'm not sure I'm willing to do that.
Understand. I have friends that I order for. So I will oder 2 each of thebUnc & proofs
I will order 4 or 5 of the reverse proof sets because this is the only 2023 set anyone wants when I go to a coin show
Oh well, it is just $$. Either I spend ot or my kids will.if I can't think of a way to.fit my safe in my coffin. I could check out the possibility of them putting me in my safe with my coins, but I would have to buy a bigger safe or have them cremate me and that might fit is just right. Have a great 4th and talk with you later
Jon
USN & USAF retired 1971-1993
Successful Transactions with more than 100 Members
I got the same email today, July 3. I called the Mint with a question and was told by the cust. service rep that if I ordered today, July 3, the price would be $91 for each uncir. coin. He said that the coins would be mailed out July 11, and that since that date was past the July 9 increase date the coin would cost $91. I told him that did not make sense but he stuck to it. I asked to speak to a supervisor but he said no one was available. I will call on Friday to see if I can speak to a supervisor.
@Goldbully said:
Just came in my email......................
Just saw that too. It sounds like if you order now, you get locked in at current price. I assume that “should” apply to subscriptions as well (yeah yeah, I know… assume with Mint is a folly).
I’ve already deactivated my Unc sub for Morgan’s and Peace. If that assumption is valid, maybe they should have been more… a lot more… clearer in thier original emails. The mass unsubscribes probably triggered today’s email. lol
I’m staying out of the Unc subs now. Even if this year was in the old price, I would be ending next year. 3X+ spot is just too much for my hobby collection.
Wow, silver proof set at $150? I collected them up thru 2020. I wouldn't even be able to afford them now. I'm sure the mint has priced out a lot of collectors with these constant price increases.
@bsshog40 said:
Wow, silver proof set at $150? I collected them up thru 2020. I wouldn't even be able to afford them now. I'm sure the mint has priced out a lot of collectors with these constant price increases.
@JWP said:
Understand. I have friends that I order for. So I will oder 2 each of thebUnc & proofs
I will order 4 or 5 of the reverse proof sets because this is the only 2023 set anyone wants when I go to a coin show
Oh well, it is just $$. Either I spend ot or my kids will.if I can't think of a way to.fit my safe in my coffin. I could check out the possibility of them putting me in my safe with my coins, but I would have to buy a bigger safe or have them cremate me and that might fit is just right. Have a great 4th and talk with you later
Jon
Please be careful, because past performance is no guarantee of future returns. Mintage will increase from 250K to 262.5K, while price is going up from $185 to $215. There will be more available, and they will be more expensive. I seriously doubt the demand for 2024s will be as robust as for the initial 2023 edition.
@mlittle said:
I got the same email today, July 3. I called the Mint with a question and was told by the cust. service rep that if I ordered today, July 3, the price would be $91 for each uncir. coin. He said that the coins would be mailed out July 11, and that since that date was past the July 9 increase date the coin would cost $91. I told him that did not make sense but he stuck to it. I asked to speak to a supervisor but he said no one was available. I will call on Friday to see if I can speak to a supervisor.
Don't waste your time. The rep clearly did not explain it properly, but the bottom line is that you cannot pre-order anything at the old price. The old prices apply to things you can buy today. You can't buy these, because they are not going to be issued until 7/11.
You are quoting from an e-mail that went out to encourage people to make purchases from the catalog ahead of the price increase. If you had a subscription, you would have also received the following e-mail. It could not be more clear.
"Price Update for Morgan and Peace Silver Dollar Uncirculated Coin Subscriptions
Due to the rise of the spot price of silver and other costs, the United States Mint is raising prices on all numismatic silver products effective July 9, 2024, except for our commemorative coin program products.
As a loyal customer, we wanted to notify you this will impact the price of any subscriptions you have for the Morgan or Peace Silver Dollar Uncirculated Coins which go on sale July 11, 2024. On July 11, the Morgan and Peace Silver Dollar Uncirculated Coins will go on sale for $91.00."
I was in for 2 each. Then changed to 1 each last week.
Got the price increase notice and cancelled.
They already purchased the silver, and created the ones that are being released next week, so they should have, imo, honored the previous price.
If they hadn't purchased the silver yet for the TBD items, then I might be more understanding, but, like I said, for the ones already done, boxed, and ready to be shipped, they shouldn't jack up the price like that just because silver is going up...at least not to those people with subscriptions that gave them an idea of how many were ready to be sold immediately.
@AlbumAccumulator said:
Even if people cut their orders and the mintage is much lower, what happens in 2025 when the mint raises prices again? A new lower mintage again? What if this keeps happening for years until the program is discontinued? You may have the key dates for the series but if it sell at half issue, does it really matter. Just some of the things I think about with all these modern programs the mint has going.
This is exactly what happened to the First Spouse and $5 gold commems. The "keys", with mintages well below 2000, fetch very little premium above the more common dates (which are basically worth melt).
Yikes what a change!! And looks like July 9'th is a huge change.. David Bowie couldn't have put it better,
"Ch-ch-ch-ch-changes
Turn and face the strange
Ch-ch-changes
Don't want to be a richer man
Ch-ch-ch-ch-changes"
@AlbumAccumulator said:
Even if people cut their orders and the mintage is much lower, what happens in 2025 when the mint raises prices again? A new lower mintage again? What if this keeps happening for years until the program is discontinued? You may have the key dates for the series but if it sell at half issue, does it really matter. Just some of the things I think about with all these modern programs the mint has going.
This is exactly what happened to the First Spouse and $5 gold commems. The "keys", with mintages well below 2000, fetch very little premium above the more common dates (which are basically worth melt).
Yes, since people don't collect in a vacuum and low mintage isn't compelling enough to make it desirable enough as a collectible. Practically all coins compete for collector budget. These modern versions are unlikely to appreciate noticeably more than the most common circulating Morgan and Peace dollars (in low to average MS grades) which aren't likely to appreciate substantially either unless silver spot or the entire US coin market does too as it did in 2020.
I also consistently read of buyers buying multiples, which tells me the hobbyist collector demand might not be as strong as some might think. I further suspect that a noticeable proportion only want one, not an indefinite series.
In commemoratives, the closest analogy I know is the 2001 Buffalo dollar. There is no circulating counterpart but it's also a one-year coin with a comparable mintage. It's still "popular" to my knowledge, valued around twice one of these. It seems to be mostly forgotten though. I'd describe it as "dead money". I don't think it will lose noticeable value but doubt it will gain much either.
@JWP said:
I will still buy at the higher price, but not just 1 per issue.
Probably right. Those who have been preselling at close margin may be most affected. Therein lies one of the risks of being a pre seller. It would not be surprising to have some of them bail on their customers. However, the formula of the flippers has always been to at least double the mint’s pricing and justify it by some sort of a bogus signature of a retired mint employee, Taylor Swift, Elvis, an ex-political figure, or even the Pope. So with their huge markups, it may be biz as usual, just with a little less return for their greed.
No mercy for pre-sellers. I’m sure they know the risks inherent in such a business method. If not, this may prove a valuable lesson learned the hard way.
Having fun while switching things up and focusing on a next level PCGS slabbed 1950+ type set, while still looking for great examples for the 7070.
Comments
I just reduced my subscription from 3 each to 2 each. I will want to re-evaluate the situation when the proof and reverse proof issue prices are known. I mainly collection and don't sell many coins. Good luck - everyone has to do what they feel is best for them.
USN & USAF retired 1971-1993
Successful Transactions with more than 100 Members
Not gonna happen. They never mint the max unless they are confident of a sellout. Even then, most times they don't,a nd items go on back order.
Inventory Management 101 -- it costs a FORTUNE to manufacture unsold inventory, and then have to pay to store it. Coins, packaging, etc. NOT GONNA HAPPEN!!!
They have already made what they think they will sell. Far less than 275K. If they sell what they made, they will go on back order and they will make more.
Otherwise, yes, what they don't sell will languish until they eventually sell, or they pull them and melt them. It will be a long time before we know final mintages, but we will be able to see how they are doing through the weekly sales reports.
And rest assured, even though the maximum mintage is 275K, if they make and sell far less than that, and have leftover inventory going into 2025, they won't be making more if people wake up next February and clean them out. That's where the opportunity might be. The problem is, no one will know for sure until after they go to Sold Out status and we can see what final mintages are, at which point it will be too late to get in.
Proof -- $95. Reverse Proof -- $215. Now what?
Just came in my email......................
@NJCoin I guess i will have to re-evaluate all my USM purchases on all my issue purchases in the future. I have been buying coins from the mint since I was a kid in the early 60s. I may not be making my usual multiple purchases for each issue as I have in the past.
USN & USAF retired 1971-1993
Successful Transactions with more than 100 Members
EXACT same with me!! I'm not a flipper, and am not stomping my feet and demanding the right to buy what I want at cost plus a modest premium. I do, however, at least hope that what I buy has a shot to come close to retaining its value.
Right now, that's difficult to see at around $100 a pop for coins with mintages in the hundreds of thousands. I hope I'm wrong. A silver proof set at $150 is also going to be hard to justify, when the price was around 1/3 of that 5 short years ago.
Silver went from $15-20 in 2019 to $23-30 today. Silver going up 50% does not justify the price of most numismatic items going up 200%. I'd pay it if it was sustainable in the secondary market. Otherwise, I'm just paying a penalty to the US Treasury to feed a habit, and I'm not sure I'm willing to do that.
Understand. I have friends that I order for. So I will oder 2 each of thebUnc & proofs
I will order 4 or 5 of the reverse proof sets because this is the only 2023 set anyone wants when I go to a coin show
Oh well, it is just $$. Either I spend ot or my kids will.if I can't think of a way to.fit my safe in my coffin. I could check out the possibility of them putting me in my safe with my coins, but I would have to buy a bigger safe or have them cremate me and that might fit is just right. Have a great 4th and talk with you later
Jon
USN & USAF retired 1971-1993
Successful Transactions with more than 100 Members
Remember when the Mint devised the "Waiting Room" for those 'in demand' online orders?
We all thought what a great idea.
Those days are certainly numbered now.
I got the same email today, July 3. I called the Mint with a question and was told by the cust. service rep that if I ordered today, July 3, the price would be $91 for each uncir. coin. He said that the coins would be mailed out July 11, and that since that date was past the July 9 increase date the coin would cost $91. I told him that did not make sense but he stuck to it. I asked to speak to a supervisor but he said no one was available. I will call on Friday to see if I can speak to a supervisor.
Just saw that too. It sounds like if you order now, you get locked in at current price. I assume that “should” apply to subscriptions as well (yeah yeah, I know… assume with Mint is a folly).
I’ve already deactivated my Unc sub for Morgan’s and Peace. If that assumption is valid, maybe they should have been more… a lot more… clearer in thier original emails. The mass unsubscribes probably triggered today’s email. lol
I’m staying out of the Unc subs now. Even if this year was in the old price, I would be ending next year. 3X+ spot is just too much for my hobby collection.
Wow, silver proof set at $150? I collected them up thru 2020. I wouldn't even be able to afford them now. I'm sure the mint has priced out a lot of collectors with these constant price increases.
My Original Song Written to my late wife-"Plus other original music by me"
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8A11CC8CC6093D80
https://n1m.com/bobbysmith1
I hear you
Martin
Please be careful, because past performance is no guarantee of future returns. Mintage will increase from 250K to 262.5K, while price is going up from $185 to $215. There will be more available, and they will be more expensive. I seriously doubt the demand for 2024s will be as robust as for the initial 2023 edition.
Don't waste your time. The rep clearly did not explain it properly, but the bottom line is that you cannot pre-order anything at the old price. The old prices apply to things you can buy today. You can't buy these, because they are not going to be issued until 7/11.
You are quoting from an e-mail that went out to encourage people to make purchases from the catalog ahead of the price increase. If you had a subscription, you would have also received the following e-mail. It could not be more clear.
"Price Update for Morgan and Peace Silver Dollar Uncirculated Coin Subscriptions
Due to the rise of the spot price of silver and other costs, the United States Mint is raising prices on all numismatic silver products effective July 9, 2024, except for our commemorative coin program products.
As a loyal customer, we wanted to notify you this will impact the price of any subscriptions you have for the Morgan or Peace Silver Dollar Uncirculated Coins which go on sale July 11, 2024. On July 11, the Morgan and Peace Silver Dollar Uncirculated Coins will go on sale for $91.00."
I will still buy at the higher price, but not just 1 per issue.
USN & USAF retired 1971-1993
Successful Transactions with more than 100 Members
I was in for 2 each. Then changed to 1 each last week.
Got the price increase notice and cancelled.
They already purchased the silver, and created the ones that are being released next week, so they should have, imo, honored the previous price.
If they hadn't purchased the silver yet for the TBD items, then I might be more understanding, but, like I said, for the ones already done, boxed, and ready to be shipped, they shouldn't jack up the price like that just because silver is going up...at least not to those people with subscriptions that gave them an idea of how many were ready to be sold immediately.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
This is exactly what happened to the First Spouse and $5 gold commems. The "keys", with mintages well below 2000, fetch very little premium above the more common dates (which are basically worth melt).
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Yikes what a change!! And looks like July 9'th is a huge change.. David Bowie couldn't have put it better,
"Ch-ch-ch-ch-changes
Turn and face the strange
Ch-ch-changes
Don't want to be a richer man
Ch-ch-ch-ch-changes"
Yes, since people don't collect in a vacuum and low mintage isn't compelling enough to make it desirable enough as a collectible. Practically all coins compete for collector budget. These modern versions are unlikely to appreciate noticeably more than the most common circulating Morgan and Peace dollars (in low to average MS grades) which aren't likely to appreciate substantially either unless silver spot or the entire US coin market does too as it did in 2020.
I also consistently read of buyers buying multiples, which tells me the hobbyist collector demand might not be as strong as some might think. I further suspect that a noticeable proportion only want one, not an indefinite series.
In commemoratives, the closest analogy I know is the 2001 Buffalo dollar. There is no circulating counterpart but it's also a one-year coin with a comparable mintage. It's still "popular" to my knowledge, valued around twice one of these. It seems to be mostly forgotten though. I'd describe it as "dead money". I don't think it will lose noticeable value but doubt it will gain much either.
Probably right. Those who have been preselling at close margin may be most affected. Therein lies one of the risks of being a pre seller. It would not be surprising to have some of them bail on their customers. However, the formula of the flippers has always been to at least double the mint’s pricing and justify it by some sort of a bogus signature of a retired mint employee, Taylor Swift, Elvis, an ex-political figure, or even the Pope. So with their huge markups, it may be biz as usual, just with a little less return for their greed.
No mercy for pre-sellers. I’m sure they know the risks inherent in such a business method. If not, this may prove a valuable lesson learned the hard way.
Having fun while switching things up and focusing on a next level PCGS slabbed 1950+ type set, while still looking for great examples for the 7070.